Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

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BuriedTartaria
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Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by BuriedTartaria »

One area Christianity and Mormonism are at odds with each other is Mormonism's teaching on the concept of ascension. Of a spirit child of God going through growth and ascending in stature, in intelligence, in light, becoming even as God.

Christianity (as I understand it) sees this as blasphemous. That it exalts mortals to a plane comparable to our savior, Christ, or to our Heavenly Father. I agree with Christians, that when the situation is framed like this, it does feel and seem disrespectful and blasphemous.

But then you come across scriptures like this in the New Testament and it really feels like Christ is teaching the doctrine of ascension in the Bible;
Revelation 3: 21 wrote: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.
He says it right there. For those who overcome AS HE OVERCAME, they will sit with Christ, even as Christ sits with His Father.

I agree 100% with Christians that the concept and the doctrine of ascension is blasphemous but I also believe Jesus Christ, if he atoned for my sins, I believe He wants me to the absolute best, holiest, intelligent, pure, humble sort of creation from God's hands that I can be. I truly believe that. The love it takes to reconcile fallen man to God must have an element to it of seeing the potential in all of God's creations and wanting those creations to live up to their potential.

I don't quite grasp how/why I need to overcome if he overcame for me, but the invitation from the Master is sure and certain. We have the opportunity to overcome, just as Christ did. He teaches this to us in the Bible.

p8riot
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Re: Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by p8riot »

Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Mamabear
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Re: Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by Mamabear »

BuriedTartaria wrote: September 24th, 2022, 12:47 am One area Christianity and Mormonism are at odds with each other is Mormonism's teaching on the concept of ascension. Of a spirit child of God going through growth and ascending in stature, in intelligence, in light, becoming even as God.

Christianity (as I understand it) sees this as blasphemous. That it exalts mortals to a plane comparable to our savior, Christ, or to our Heavenly Father. I agree with Christians, that when the situation is framed like this, it does feel and seem disrespectful and blasphemous.

But then you come across scriptures like this in the New Testament and it really feels like Christ is teaching the doctrine of ascension in the Bible;
Revelation 3: 21 wrote: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.
He says it right there. For those who overcome AS HE OVERCAME, they will sit with Christ, even as Christ sits with His Father.

I agree 100% with Christians that the concept and the doctrine of ascension is blasphemous but I also believe Jesus Christ, if he atoned for my sins, I believe He wants me to the absolute best, holiest, intelligent, pure, humble sort of creation from God's hands that I can be. I truly believe that. The love it takes to reconcile fallen man to God must have an element to it of seeing the potential in all of God's creations and wanting those creations to live up to their potential.

I don't quite grasp how/why I need to overcome if he overcame for me, but the invitation from the Master is sure and certain. We have the opportunity to overcome, just as Christ did. He teaches this to us in the Bible.
Good post. I agree with the more Christian point of view on this too.

I read this scripture this morning and it gave me pause. Speaking of Jesus, John said:
“He must increase, but I must decrease.
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.” John 3:30-31

It’s interesting to me that John said he must decrease.
Also, it kind of sounds like Jesus is from above and we are not.

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FrankOne
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Re: Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by FrankOne »

my perspective on this is that we are literal brothers/sisters of Christ. Literal in every sense of the word. We are to become as he is by doing what he did by first accepting what he did and understanding it. For me its a reversal, not a forward action. It's a going back home, not a forward progression. The error of the Garden of Eden reversed , not the building up of our "new selves" which were obtained in the fall.

We are completely forgiven, now we can go home.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by Wolfwoman »

Love it.

I believe what Jesus taught in the Bible. That we CAN sit with him on his throne. I think for most (all) of us, it will be quite a while before we reach the same status that he is at now. As Joseph Smith said

“When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.”

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Luke
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Re: Trying to choose between or make sense of being saved vs ascending to levels comparable to the one who saved you

Post by Luke »

About half this forum reject what Joseph Smith clearly taught on this subject.

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