Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

tmac wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:12 pm Obviously, there is plenty one might say about all of this, but I am only going to make a couple of brief observations.

The first has to do with Sarah’s comment that this whole discussion is just a bunch of whiney men b!tching about how they are being victimized by women. The second has to with the comment about why more women don’t seem to have more interest in this subject.

On that score, Sarah does seem to be the exception to the rule, so in the absence of other female voices, right or wrong, she ends up speaking for all women.

But here’s my observation about that: there are a bunch of things that women are simply less interested in than men. As a general rule, men are much more interested in government, politics, and economics. Simple reality. And the same is true with sex. It seems pretty obvious that across the board, based on how they were designed, created, and wired by their Creator, men are more interested in sex. Simple reality.

And the corresponding reality is that men have much more sexual frustration. Most wives single biggest sexual frustration is, in the words of our anonymous contributor, “the male sex drive.” It is the male sex drive that is their biggest sexual frustration. Otherwise, like government, politics, and economics, this doesn’t seem to be a topic that most women, especially Mormon wives, really have all that much interest in. Many women, including Mormon women, seem to be completely obsessed with sexualizing themselves, but not wit sex itself. The obvious examples of this are simply too numerous to mention.

So all of that helps explain at least part of why Mormon men like to talk about plural marriage, because clearly they have a tendency (naive, perhaps) to view plural marriage as a possible solution to their sexual frustrations — and their wife’s biggest sexual frustration — the male sex drive. But since women are pretty clearly a whole lot less motivated in this regard, they have a whole lot less interest in the whole subject.

Having said all that, there is a Sisters in Zion sub forum that has always struggled, because of the lack of interest. There is a corresponding Women and Polygamy thread there that has only managed to garner 2 pages over the course of several months, and no posts for weeks. And that is the most recent activity on that forum. Across the board, it is fair to say that there is a big difference between men and women, and how they view the world.

Now, as to Sarah’s comment about all the whiney victimized men, by now it should be clear that God designed and created men, and males of virtually all species, with a strong sex drive and desire to mate and have sex. That is simple reality. But many of them have wives who’s attitude is “Sorry buddy, your male sex drive is your problem, not mine, so you deal with it.” But according to Sarah and Atticus, the Church says he can’t deal with it. Not only can he not look for it somewhere else, even through plural marriage, he can’t even masturbate to cope with it. So what viable options does he really have to address it, other than get on LDSFF and talk about it — as someone else observed (maybe several people), talk endlessly about plural marriage, because, as a Mormon, it is essentially the only ray of hope he might have to have sex again as long as he lives. It’s like the 80 year-old that can’t take a poop, it’s what they think about, talk about, and become obsessed with.

So is it any small wonder why so many Mormon men are obsessed with even the idea of plural marriage?
Well, it's also good to realize that there are plenty of women out there who were like me, who had sex with her husband for years and years out of a sense of duty and obligation. And no, we don't like to talk about it because it is a really painful topic. Wives like that feel that something is wrong with them, that they don't like sex with their husband - and so they feel ashamed, much of which has come from how her husband has treated her disinterest. So what would you say to a wife who for years and years has put her husband first in the relationship and has been sexually frustrated or felt used her entire life? You'd probably say, figure out what your problem is. And that's exactly what I did. I figured out what my problem was and realized it was a big-time husband problem, along with my need to forgive him and my need to learn to trust him. But I had to point out his bad behaviors and attitudes and say, "what you're doing is making me not want to try to have an orgasm with you." "What you're doing is unloving and makes you unattractive." I had to repeatedly call him out on his attitudes and behaviors that signaled entitlement and tell him he needed to change if he wanted me to even try to let him give something to me. So, not every frustrated woman shuts down and denies her husband for years and years. Many keep up the face of a good, dutiful wife with a lot of repressed disappointment.

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Respectfully Sarah, the details of your story are changing. Just over the course of this thread. So I don’t know which parts of your story are true. I’ve read multiple versions from you now.

And I don’t want to pry.

Thanks for your contributions to the thread though. Turned out to be eye opening.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:28 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:09 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:01 pm And also no Sarah, I’m afraid not.

I’m afraid that your idea that if a wife doesn’t want to get with her own husband then maybe she should be allowed to try getting with another man instead is not a good idea.

That is a stupid idea. lol
Sounds logical to me if plurality is what a husband is arguing for. A husband wants a a second wife so he can have more sex, and a wife wants another husband so she can feel more love. What's the problem with that?
Did you miss this whole thread? Polygamy isn’t something the guy is after just for more sex. It is a solution to the problem of no sex.

How did you miss that?

And you ask— what is the problem with a wife who won’t get with her own husband but then wants to get with a bunch of other guys? Ha. I’d say many many things would be the problem with her. Too many to list. Sick in the head would be the short way to say it. Really really sick in the head.
Can you clarify your first statement?
What problem does polygamy solve? The problem of sex? Too little sex? So how is he not after polygamy for more sex?

A wife may not feel loved and sexually interested in a husband who exudes an attitude of entitlement, who is demanding, who has high expectations of her, but she might be more sexually interested and open to a different guy who knows how to put her first in the relationship. Husbands need to realize that the answer to the sex problem is to give good physical love gifts without strings attached, so she can build up that trust until she asks for more. If she's not into it with one man, maybe another can have more success.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm Respectfully Sarah, the details of your story are changing. Just over the course of this thread. So I don’t know which parts of your story are true. I’ve read multiple versions from you now.

And I don’t want to pry.

Thanks for your contributions to the thread though. Turned out to be eye opening.
What details changed?

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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Thinker »

FrankOne wrote: September 16th, 2022, 5:05 pm
Thinker wrote: September 16th, 2022, 4:18 pm Speaking of entertainment…
Of the many controversial issues of the church, polygamy is by far, the most popular among men. This doesn’t just go for men on this forum - but also in ex-Mormon circles. Whether men are for or against polygamy, how entertaining that they can go on & on & on… about it and never get tired!

And for what? Why?
Are they practicing polygamy? No!
Are they taking steps to begin? No!
Is there a good chance they ever will? No!! :lol:

So… this polygamy obsession is
PURE FANTASY!
Like imaginative porn that some men get off on - since discussing it ad nauseam is the closest thing they can get to it. Kinda like porn is the closest some guys get to sex.

Is that better than sleeping around? Sure.
Is that living the higher law of not lusting? Probably not.
Would his wife love to discuss this ad nausea along with him? No!
Is polygamy AS IS - moral? No!
Look at what they do to all the excess boys and men!
So lusting after something immoral is a double or triple no-no.

Will this inspire self reflection or just piss off the polygamy-obsessing men? Will they consider possible truths above, or shoot the messenger yet again?
Lots of fixed conclusions there . A bucket of them.
Are we to observe your conclusions as facts even if they contradict reality?
If it doesn’t apply to you, if your wife is sitting along side you as excited to discuss polygamy as you are… etc… then no need to be bothered by any “contradiction of reality.”

Entertainment. :lol:

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:44 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:28 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:09 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:01 pm And also no Sarah, I’m afraid not.

I’m afraid that your idea that if a wife doesn’t want to get with her own husband then maybe she should be allowed to try getting with another man instead is not a good idea.

That is a stupid idea. lol
Sounds logical to me if plurality is what a husband is arguing for. A husband wants a a second wife so he can have more sex, and a wife wants another husband so she can feel more love. What's the problem with that?
Did you miss this whole thread? Polygamy isn’t something the guy is after just for more sex. It is a solution to the problem of no sex.

How did you miss that?

And you ask— what is the problem with a wife who won’t get with her own husband but then wants to get with a bunch of other guys? Ha. I’d say many many things would be the problem with her. Too many to list. Sick in the head would be the short way to say it. Really really sick in the head.
Can you clarify your first statement?
What problem does polygamy solve? The problem of sex? Too little sex? So how is he not after polygamy for more sex?

A wife may not feel loved and sexually interested in a husband who exudes an attitude of entitlement, who is demanding, who has high expectations of her, but she might be more sexually interested and open to a different guy who knows how to put her first in the relationship. Husbands need to realize that the answer to the sex problem is to give good physical love gifts without strings attached, so she can build up that trust until she asks for more. If she's not into it with one man, maybe another can have more success.
It’s like spitting into the wind with you. Do you understand that?

There’s only so many ways that things can get spelt out

I’m starting to suspect a failure of the education system. Maybe you can read but you can’t comprehend?

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:45 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm Respectfully Sarah, the details of your story are changing. Just over the course of this thread. So I don’t know which parts of your story are true. I’ve read multiple versions from you now.

And I don’t want to pry.

Thanks for your contributions to the thread though. Turned out to be eye opening.
What details changed?
Again, it’s like you can read and write but then someone pulls a fire alarm and everything evacuates from your mind.

Is it Groundhog Day?

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:00 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:44 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:28 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:09 pm

Sounds logical to me if plurality is what a husband is arguing for. A husband wants a a second wife so he can have more sex, and a wife wants another husband so she can feel more love. What's the problem with that?
Did you miss this whole thread? Polygamy isn’t something the guy is after just for more sex. It is a solution to the problem of no sex.

How did you miss that?

And you ask— what is the problem with a wife who won’t get with her own husband but then wants to get with a bunch of other guys? Ha. I’d say many many things would be the problem with her. Too many to list. Sick in the head would be the short way to say it. Really really sick in the head.
Can you clarify your first statement?
What problem does polygamy solve? The problem of sex? Too little sex? So how is he not after polygamy for more sex?

A wife may not feel loved and sexually interested in a husband who exudes an attitude of entitlement, who is demanding, who has high expectations of her, but she might be more sexually interested and open to a different guy who knows how to put her first in the relationship. Husbands need to realize that the answer to the sex problem is to give good physical love gifts without strings attached, so she can build up that trust until she asks for more. If she's not into it with one man, maybe another can have more success.
It’s like spitting into the wind with you. Do you understand that?

There’s only so many ways that things can get spelt out

I’m starting to suspect a failure of the education system. Maybe you can read but you can’t comprehend?
Hmm, that's kind of how I feel about you too, but hey, I'm patient.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:02 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:45 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 1:41 pm Respectfully Sarah, the details of your story are changing. Just over the course of this thread. So I don’t know which parts of your story are true. I’ve read multiple versions from you now.

And I don’t want to pry.

Thanks for your contributions to the thread though. Turned out to be eye opening.
What details changed?
Again, it’s like you can read and write but then someone pulls a fire alarm and everything evacuates from your mind.

Is it Groundhog Day?
I asked a simple question. The fact that you want to throw insults instead of take accountability for your question and accusation makes me think that you must be one of those guys you were describing, that doesn't want to think too hard.

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:08 pm I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.
That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:19 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:08 pm I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.
That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.
No accusation. These women weren’t looking to cheat either. They were just playing some game. One poor guy was walking in from work just as I was walking out. The wife timed it that way on purpose. We almost stepped on each other on the front porch. Could have been a dangerous situation for me but he was an IT guy and half my size. Had he been a plumber I may not be here today.

Anyway, their main gripe was that their husband wasn’t showing them love, wasn’t doing this, and didn’t understand that, etc etc. I worked with one of them at a gym and I was too dumb to understand what she was up to. My girlfriend at the time and another lady at work had to explain to me what was going on.

They obviously thought that bringing another dude into the equation might be helpful. It never is.

You missed the whole discussion of this thread I think.

Why don’t you tell women to do your plan but backwards? Not feeling enough love from your man? Bang him every night for two weeks. Make it a gymnastic experience. Iron his shirts. Cook him good meals. Tell him jokes or ask him to tell you jokes. Try that for just two weeks.

I guarantee that the love you feel will increase.

And guess what? That’s all simple and free. No money, no college education, no fancy theoretical psychology needed. Just good ol fashioned family fun.

That is what you should tell women! It’s so easy.

Mamabear
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Mamabear »

Women aren’t speaking up on this thread because it’s gone loco.
As my son used to say to me after testimony meeting, “Sister Jones gave TMI, as usual!”
Yup.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:29 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:19 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:08 pm I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.
That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.
No accusation. These women weren’t looking to cheat either. They were just playing some game. One poor guy was walking in from work just as I was walking out. The wife timed it that way on purpose. We almost stepped on each other on the front porch. Could have been a dangerous situation for me but he was an IT guy and half my size. Had he been a plumber I may not be here today.

Anyway, their main gripe was that their husband wasn’t showing them love, wasn’t doing this, and didn’t understand that, etc etc. I worked with one of them at a gym and I was too dumb to understand what she was up to. My girlfriend at the time and another lady at work had to explain to me what was going on.

They obviously thought that bringing another dude into the equation might be helpful. It never is.

You missed the whole discussion of this thread I think.

Why don’t you tell women to do your plan but backwards? Not feeling enough love from your man? Bang him every night for two weeks. Make it a gymnastic experience. Iron his shirts. Cook him good meals. Tell him jokes or ask him to tell you jokes. Try that for just two weeks.

I guarantee that the love you feel will increase.

And guess what? That’s all simple and free. No money, no college education, no fancy theoretical psychology needed. Just good ol fashioned family fun.

That is what you should tell women! It’s so easy.
I tried that for many years, to give my husband lots of sex, have dinner on the table when he got home (because he made it known that he expected that) ironed in his clothes, accommodated his every wish, and it did not increase his love for me. In fact I think it decreased his love, as he lost respect for me because I had no boundaries. And he gets used to all the special treatment and becomes spoiled. A wife trying to please please please only increases his sense of entitlement and makes him a jerk. I've talked to other women who've had the same experience.
Last edited by Sarah on September 23rd, 2022, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Mamabear wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:35 pm Women aren’t speaking up on this thread because it’s gone loco.
As my son used to say to me after testimony meeting, “Sister Jones gave TMI, as usual!”
Yup.
Sorry. I will respectfully bow out!

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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by FrankOne »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 12:37 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 10:15 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 10:03 am
FrankOne wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 9:47 am

I can only speak from my perspective, so I will. Men do not feel sorry for themselves in not being able to enjoy orgasms. The drive to have sex for a man is about fulfilling that drive with his wife. When this can't be done, it feels like something is wrong, and there IS.

The word marriage means to join and it has always and forever meant to join sexually. These are facts. When a man can't join with his wife, sexually, it's like having a friendship with any person, it's isn't marriage, there is no joining. Masturbation is like a photograph of a beautiful vista instead of standing on that mountain looking at it in real life. It's fake. Sex brings closeness on ALL levels. When this can't be done, there is a very REAL problem.

You keep using the word "entitlement" . You continue saying "men feel sorry for themselves" . These are defensive words in order to justify your position with the attempt to vilify or weaken men. You attack the opponent in an argument in order to attempt to invalidate his point. Your tactics don't work in this discussion. This entire discussion has NOTHING at all to do with entitlement nor men feeling sorry for themselves.

You are attempting to defend the woman's position because you feel that they are being attacked in this discussion. The men in this discussion are not attacking women, they are attempting to discuss problems and solutions.

You believe yourself to be an advocate of women due to your own experiences in life. The problem is that you are using all the modern methods of trying to identify women as victims and men as the bullies. You are wrong when applying this strategy in this discussion. Women are NOT being attacked and men are not bullies in this discussion.

If I do not respond to your posts, it will be because you are continuing to repeat what I set forth above.
Good assessment. Most of us can see this. We just aren't as good at putting it into words. I am sorry to see that Sarah sees herself and most of womanhood as victims or being victimized. This is the clear message she is giving out. I see that some men are victimizers. The vast majority of men I know just want to get along, be happy and move forward with life.
And the vast majority of women just want to feel loved as well and have great sex with their husbands. I'm trying to explain what a husband might do to show her that he really doesn't love her, that he's only thinking about himself and not her. If he really thought about her first in her sexual weakness, he would do everything in his power to make sure she felt loved and her happiness was more important than his. Men being the stronger ones sexually, have the opportunity and obligation to help the weaker one in the relationship, so that her weakness can be made strong.
And now let me play the other side of it if I may, which is to say— no. Lol

If a man has to be a philosopher and a poet and also have a minor in womens studies just so he can figure out how to show his wife that he loves her— then it’s the wife that is the problem. There is zero doubt in my mind that polygamy would help rebalance things as far as that goes because that is not right. I can see how polygamy would be a safeguard against society sliding that way.

Some won’t jump through endless hoops even if they could. Just on principle. And some couldn’t jump through a bunch of hoops even if they wanted to just because they aren’t wired for it.

I can see how things have become unbalanced.

With all due respect to you Sarah— if you are representative of how women in general are and think— then trouble is on its way to the world. Good families are breaking down. Which will cause society to break down.

Either women start feeling natural affection towards their husbands or polygamy might be needed.

To be honest, I’d rather see the former but I understand if it has to be the latter.

This is widespread. Guys just don’t talk about it.

Important thread.
Valid points which make my mind stir. I'll take the same side with this post. I cropped down the above quote to what i saw as the pith of it all.

A man is a man. A man is not a woman. They are not equal and they are not the same. The foregoing terms are all "new speak" lies.

I can't begin to do a better job, at detailing the above, than hyloglyph already has. He has a knack for giving no-nonsense grit to the subject. I identify with it due to my work experience as well in rough places with rough men doing rough jobs. but.. I also enjoy psychology and esoteric theology , neither of which are subjects that I have ever successfully discussed at work...LOL. .

My general conclusion thus far on this subject is a quick attempt to bridge what has been recently said.

For millennia, women weren't so fragile as they are today. Today, they are taught to be snowflakes that melt under conditions of even a slight breeze. It's the truth and everyone knows it. They have been taught to be demanding and forceful. They have been taught to fight their husbands for leadership. They've been taught that every woman in all time has been subjected to overbearing men exercising brute strength against them. It's always a complete generalization which includes ALL men. The only men that it doesn't include today are bi-sexuals and gays. These are harmless, right? Let's clap for them, they've learned how to be emotionally unstable like a woman. They're special, just like women are.

It's been said here that God has given a gift to modern man and that is to think like a woman. That's about as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard. BUT...BUT... I do believe that it is a 'blessing' that men have learned to have less sharp edges to them. Simply put the refinements of patience and understanding. Neither of these two are emotions.

Over history, women have understood that a man is a man and they didn't run screaming when a man ran the house, they LIKED it. The only ones that didn't like it were the rebellious red heads. (it's a stereotype joke). Women LIKED that the man was responsible for everything because it meant that all that they needed to do was follow. They accepted their man with open embrace as a man, not a beta male with 'emotions'.

In this open embrace to the man, they didn't have fear, resentment, or other misgivings that vex the average modern woman which then turns off their sexual desires.

They were impressed with the idea of a Marlboro Man...it turned them on!


Today...no. Hell no. He's the archetype enemy from hell. The narcissistic abuser. He's scary! Who would be attracted to that type? He doesn't feel what we feel. We demand a man feels like us and acts like us so we can then feel SAFE and not be afraid during sex. A brute man like that is mean and doesn't give me the nurturing support that I demand.

I want coddling within an illusion of my own and I want him to agree with my illusion of fear. I want him to stroke the fear and agree that it is real. - in comes psychology, can't help it.

Am I being rude? nah. It is as it is.

I have presented differing perspectives in this thread because it can be seen from so many sides. Facts still remain no matter how it is debated.

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Sarah
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:29 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:19 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:08 pm I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.
That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.
No accusation. These women weren’t looking to cheat either. They were just playing some game. One poor guy was walking in from work just as I was walking out. The wife timed it that way on purpose. We almost stepped on each other on the front porch. Could have been a dangerous situation for me but he was an IT guy and half my size. Had he been a plumber I may not be here today.

Anyway, their main gripe was that their husband wasn’t showing them love, wasn’t doing this, and didn’t understand that, etc etc. I worked with one of them at a gym and I was too dumb to understand what she was up to. My girlfriend at the time and another lady at work had to explain to me what was going on.

They obviously thought that bringing another dude into the equation might be helpful. It never is.

You missed the whole discussion of this thread I think.

Why don’t you tell women to do your plan but backwards? Not feeling enough love from your man? Bang him every night for two weeks. Make it a gymnastic experience. Iron his shirts. Cook him good meals. Tell him jokes or ask him to tell you jokes. Try that for just two weeks.

I guarantee that the love you feel will increase.

And guess what? That’s all simple and free. No money, no college education, no fancy theoretical psychology needed. Just good ol fashioned family fun.

That is what you should tell women! It’s so easy.
It would be like me telling men, if you want to feel more love from your wife, just work work work and let her spend spend spend on whatever she wants and she will love you! It will be great!

FrankOne
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Posts: 698

Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by FrankOne »

Mamabear wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:35 pm Women aren’t speaking up on this thread because it’s gone loco.
As my son used to say to me after testimony meeting, “Sister Jones gave TMI, as usual!”
Yup.
One point needs to be clarified.
It's gone "Loco" from the perspective of women that see things as you do.

If in your perspective, this thread has gone loco, I for one, would enjoy reading something "sane" from you or others that take exception to the points that have been made. Perhaps a correction is needed?

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Jonesy
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Jonesy »

There was an interesting post a while back that questions our response about polygamy either way, righteous or not. Even if confronted with the possibility of polygamy being a righteous practice, many women (and some men) would still reject it. I think there’s a lot of baggage in association with anything involving sex. Those are just some of my thoughts here, but more should be said…

hyloglyph
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by hyloglyph »

Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:41 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:29 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:19 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:08 pm I have seen this before I’m afraid.

When I was young and dumb, like 18 to 22 range, I got tricked/seduced by married women on a couple different occasions and didn’t realize it till months later. Well I didn’t get fully seduced but they were trying and they got me over to their house and it was all just a thing they were doing to torture their poor husbands. Mormon girl one of them. From Payson, Utah.

I might tell the story at some point because I recognize some of what Sarah is talking about as the same as some of the things that they had been telling me in the lead up to it. Lots of various things that they were critical or disappointed about regarding their husbands. Same type of worldview too.

I didn’t like it. I just naturally dodged it but I didn’t realize how big of a thing I was dodging till later.

Not good. Unwell in the head.
That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.
No accusation. These women weren’t looking to cheat either. They were just playing some game. One poor guy was walking in from work just as I was walking out. The wife timed it that way on purpose. We almost stepped on each other on the front porch. Could have been a dangerous situation for me but he was an IT guy and half my size. Had he been a plumber I may not be here today.

Anyway, their main gripe was that their husband wasn’t showing them love, wasn’t doing this, and didn’t understand that, etc etc. I worked with one of them at a gym and I was too dumb to understand what she was up to. My girlfriend at the time and another lady at work had to explain to me what was going on.

They obviously thought that bringing another dude into the equation might be helpful. It never is.

You missed the whole discussion of this thread I think.

Why don’t you tell women to do your plan but backwards? Not feeling enough love from your man? Bang him every night for two weeks. Make it a gymnastic experience. Iron his shirts. Cook him good meals. Tell him jokes or ask him to tell you jokes. Try that for just two weeks.

I guarantee that the love you feel will increase.

And guess what? That’s all simple and free. No money, no college education, no fancy theoretical psychology needed. Just good ol fashioned family fun.

That is what you should tell women! It’s so easy.
It would be like me telling men, if you want to feel more love from your wife, just work work work and let her spend spend spend on whatever she wants and she will love you! It will be great!
Okay on my way out I will reply to this because this shows pretty clearly where the disconnect is.

You equate a wife just being a normal wife in the traditional way as being so big of an ask that it is equal to a man working all day and letting his wife spend spend spend consume consume consume.

It is a false equivalency that you have set up in your mind.

THAT is why you can’t comprehend what you read on here.

You have this false equivalency set up.

Look at what I said— a woman sleep with her man, iron his shirts, and cook dinner.

You said that the male equivalent to that would be giving the girl unlimited spending!?

That’s crazy. What I am describing is just normal marriage.


It’s traditional. It’s productive. It’s reproductive. It’s wholesome. It’s a way of life that goes back thousands of years.

What you describe is childish, irresponsible, and consumptive. And usually not even possible since money is hard to come by.

What I describe— everyone can do right now today. With no money and no training.

So start thinking about why you have these things unbalanced in your mind. That’s what it is an unbalanced mind.

What I’m asking is not that the wife do anything above and beyond!

Both husband and wife wake up in the morning. One works at a job. One works at the house. It’s equal. Then at night they make love. Which also takes an equal amount of effort by both parties. Then they go to sleep. Then it repeats. Easy peasy! And always was easy peasy. Till a mind virus or something globbed on to some of us.

Okay.

Now I will bow out. Had to explain that because what you said there was perfect. Perfect example of the issue.

Mamabear
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Mamabear »

FrankOne wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:49 pm
Mamabear wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:35 pm Women aren’t speaking up on this thread because it’s gone loco.
As my son used to say to me after testimony meeting, “Sister Jones gave TMI, as usual!”
Yup.
One point needs to be clarified.
It's gone "Loco" from the perspective of women that see things as you do.

If in your perspective, this thread has gone loco, I for one, would enjoy reading something "sane" from you or others that take exception to the points that have been made. Perhaps a correction is needed?
Dear Frank,
Men want polygamy. women don’t. Go do whatever floats your boat.
No need to hash out the deets of sex lives or experiences.
❤️
Mamabear

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Sarah
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Posts: 6337

Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Sarah »

hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:57 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:41 pm
hyloglyph wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:29 pm
Sarah wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:19 pm

That's quite the accusation and suggestion. I love my husband and he is a wonderful man that I have no intention of cheating on. We have great wonderful sex and are in love with each other, and strive to love each other the best we can. We both hope to stay pure and chaste, and have an eternal marriage. I only shared these negative traits he had in his past, because we both learned and changed, and I hope others can learn from our experience.
No accusation. These women weren’t looking to cheat either. They were just playing some game. One poor guy was walking in from work just as I was walking out. The wife timed it that way on purpose. We almost stepped on each other on the front porch. Could have been a dangerous situation for me but he was an IT guy and half my size. Had he been a plumber I may not be here today.

Anyway, their main gripe was that their husband wasn’t showing them love, wasn’t doing this, and didn’t understand that, etc etc. I worked with one of them at a gym and I was too dumb to understand what she was up to. My girlfriend at the time and another lady at work had to explain to me what was going on.

They obviously thought that bringing another dude into the equation might be helpful. It never is.

You missed the whole discussion of this thread I think.

Why don’t you tell women to do your plan but backwards? Not feeling enough love from your man? Bang him every night for two weeks. Make it a gymnastic experience. Iron his shirts. Cook him good meals. Tell him jokes or ask him to tell you jokes. Try that for just two weeks.

I guarantee that the love you feel will increase.

And guess what? That’s all simple and free. No money, no college education, no fancy theoretical psychology needed. Just good ol fashioned family fun.

That is what you should tell women! It’s so easy.
It would be like me telling men, if you want to feel more love from your wife, just work work work and let her spend spend spend on whatever she wants and she will love you! It will be great!
Okay on my way out I will reply to this because this shows pretty clearly where the disconnect is.

You equate a wife just being a normal wife in the traditional way as being so big of an ask that it is equal to a man working all day and letting his wife spend spend spend consume consume consume.

It is a false equivalency that you have set up in your mind.

THAT is why you can’t comprehend what you read on here.

You have this false equivalency set up.

Look at what I said— a woman sleep with her man, iron his shirts, and cook dinner.

You said that the male equivalent to that would be giving the girl unlimited spending!?

That’s crazy. What I am describing is just normal marriage.


It’s traditional. It’s productive. It’s reproductive. It’s wholesome. It’s a way of life that goes back thousands of years.

What you describe is childish, irresponsible, and consumptive. And usually not even possible since money is hard to come by.

What I describe— everyone can do right now today. With no money and no training.

So start thinking about why you have these things unbalanced in your mind. That’s what it is an unbalanced mind.

What I’m asking is not that the wife do anything above and beyond!

Both husband and wife wake up in the morning. One works at a job. One works at the house. It’s equal. Then at night they make love. Which also takes an equal amount of effort by both parties. Then they go to sleep. Then it repeats. Easy peasy! And always was easy peasy. Till a mind virus or something globbed on to some of us.

Okay.

Now I will bow out. Had to explain that because what you said there was perfect. Perfect example of the issue.
Sounds like a deal, he works, she works, they both work in the bedroom. All I'm saying is that what a husband does for his part in the bedroom can be unloving towards his wife. If she doesn't like the sex gift he's giving her, he needs to figure out what she will like and give that to her until she wants more, and reassure her that he's not expecting her to give her body to him out of a sense of duty, that he wants her to absolutely love sex and if she's not happy, he's not happy to have one-sided sex. If that's not his attitude he needs to fix the problem and not settle for masterbation or longing for another wife. Just focus on loving your wife before yourself and if you succeed in satisfying her sexual needs, your reward is that you will gain satisfaction yourself.

FrankOne
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Posts: 698

Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by FrankOne »

Mamabear wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:58 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:49 pm
Mamabear wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:35 pm Women aren’t speaking up on this thread because it’s gone loco.
As my son used to say to me after testimony meeting, “Sister Jones gave TMI, as usual!”
Yup.
One point needs to be clarified.
It's gone "Loco" from the perspective of women that see things as you do.

If in your perspective, this thread has gone loco, I for one, would enjoy reading something "sane" from you or others that take exception to the points that have been made. Perhaps a correction is needed?
Dear Frank,
Men want polygamy. women don’t. Go do whatever floats your boat.
No need to hash out the deets of sex lives or experiences.
❤️
Mamabear
The evolution of the thread to sex wasn't something that I created but as it was being discussed, I decided to contribute my point of view . I've take both sides of all the arguments here because there is no clear cut answer.

To clarify your statement above: Many men that are still men want polygamy. Most modern men wouldn't want polygamy. Very few women want polygamy today. The average woman today can't believe that any woman would enjoy polygamy...yet it's still true. We''ll see how the mindset of society changes in the upcoming years. One thing for sure is that , in years to come, we will all be different people and we will all think differently.

I've had some good discussions on this subject with various men and most men today don't want it because they don't like the relationship that they already have. They go along with it, yes, but do they enjoy it, no. A common response that I've heard is "I can't keep one woman happy, why would I want another one?"

Perhaps you have missed the post by McLeod where people are thanking him for this candid thread. He quoted one of them. What helps one, offends another.

FrankOne
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Posts: 698

Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by FrankOne »

Jonesy wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:56 pm There was an interesting post a while back that questions our response about polygamy either way, righteous or not. Even if confronted with the possibility of polygamy being a righteous practice, many women (and some men) would still reject it. I think there’s a lot of baggage in association with anything involving sex. Those are just some of my thoughts here, but more should be said…
What a long term culture has practiced takes a long time to change excepting those times of extreme hardship. Hardship changes everyone. Through adversity.... comes learning .

Fear is the greatest motivator. Fear of poverty makes people work. Fear of losing a special relationship causes women to hold on to their man possessively. Fear keeps people together and fear drives people apart. The greatest fear takes precedence over lesser fears. A woman that fears leaving her friends and modern conveniences is superseded by the fear of losing her husband that is relocating to a 3rd world foreign country for long term work. She goes with him. She was bonded to her husband more than she was bonded to her convenient life and friends. Some women would choose to stay. You could call all of the above motivations of love as well. Interesting, huh?

The baggage of sex , for me, goes to the simple problem of "sharing" . If I engage that, this could end up being a debate on polyandry ..."good for goose , good for gander" discussion. so.. that's all from me.

The problem today is comfort and ease. Who wants to confront what's inside them when the outside is so comfortable? Life is full of pleasantness, right? The scriptures call it pain and pleasure. Who wants pain? Just about no one. Who wants pleasure... just about everyone.

True learning is painful. Most people run from learning.

Hyloglyph did something unusual. He had a regular life and what appeared to be a normal happy marriage when gauged by today's standard. Yet, he chose a very hard course and brought pain to his marriage. Pain=Learning. Who does this? Who has the powers of observation and the guts to act in order to better his marriage? This isn't to bring applause to Hyloglyph because he'd likely return the applause with a slag hammer.

On a side note, as I read Hyloglyph's posts, I keep hearing a song that I love by Joe Walsh. This song really makes me smile. It's real. Ordinary Average Guys. Folks in suits and ties are fine, but can they drive rock bolts, tie wire or draw a bead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNAkPsjAEk

I realize that some of this discussion has been abrasive to a few. Here is a clip.
============

The Prophet Joseph Smith despised sham. Pretense to him was folly. Once he said, “I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, yet deals justice to his neighbors and mercifully deals his substance to the poor, than the smooth-faced hypocrite. I do not want you to think that I’m very righteous, for I am not. There was one good man, and his name was Jesus” (Documentary History of the Church, 5:401).

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Mangus MacLeod
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Re: Women and Plural Marriage -- the Great Re-Awakening?

Post by Mangus MacLeod »

:)
Last edited by Mangus MacLeod on September 23rd, 2022, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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