Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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Niemand
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Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

Clearfield, Utah, man assaults son for refusing to go on a mission.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50480691/ju ... on-mission

I know there are a lot of possible reasons the boy didn't want to go. I didn't want to go myself, but people kept pushing me. (A long story in my case, but among other things, I had ended up homeless three or four years before due to family tragedy, and I was only just getting back on my feet.)

Many people notice if a missionary is just not "into it". I'm not just meaning the occasional bad day. I think Investigators do too. You can see the insincerity or attempts to "force" tears etc. Those guys shouldn't be out in the field. It's not right for them or anyone else.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Niemand wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 4:05 am
Many people notice if a missionary is just not "into it". I'm not just meaning the occasional bad day. I think Investigators do too. You can see the insincerity or attempts to "force" tears etc. Those guys shouldn't be out in the field. It's not right for them or anyone else.
D&C 4
3 Therefore, if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work;
Could the opposite also be true - no desire, no call? And then would compelling one to serve when they have yet to hear the call/voice be constraining the Spirit, as you've pointed out? Not to mention the way unrighteous dominion could play in it, as the article points out?

While I do think it's possible for someone to be persuaded into service, having their hearts softened and minds enlightened, and thereby receiving a desire to serve, I don't think it can be compelled. Where there is no desire/call, there will be no power, except that of our own arm.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Bronco73idi »

Last time I had missionaries over was about a year ago. They don’t share the message of the lord, they share the message of Nelson and that message may or may not have the words of the lord in it.

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h_p
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

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"Assaulting" was putting it lightly. The article basically said the father was trying to murder his son. He was bashing his head against the wall and choking him.

So Christlike, so loving. Good grief.

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Separatist
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Separatist »

This stuff can happen when you grow up in a culture hearing stories of “I’d rather you come home in a casket than come home unworthy”

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Luke
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Luke »

The effects of cult brainwashing

And these people say Fundamentalists are cultists 🤣🤣

Get out of town

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

h_p wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:41 pm "Assaulting" was putting it lightly. The article basically said the father was trying to murder his son. He was bashing his head against the wall and choking him.

So Christlike, so loving. Good grief.
Oh I'd count it as assault. If you've ever hung around Accident and Emergency at my local hospital you'll see far worse, like stabbings and slashings. (We don't have much gun crime but we make up for it with knives and broken bottles.) It's actually mild compared to that.... but not for me thanks!

blitzinstripes
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by blitzinstripes »

h_p wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:41 pm "Assaulting" was putting it lightly. The article basically said the father was trying to murder his son. He was bashing his head against the wall and choking him.

So Christlike, so loving. Good grief.

He probably watched that GA fireside talk from a few months back. How dare the kid pray about going on a mission! I'm sure it was righteous indignation that caused him to assault his son with deadly force. Just trying to save him from the inevitable pit of misery and woe that awaits all young men who don't go on missions. I hope the upcoming tithing declaration with Dad goes a little smoother. 😯


My son isn't going. And I'm proud of him. He's a wonderful young man with a heart full of charity and compassion for everyone. He just really doesn't want to go. And he just got a tattoo (gasp!) of FAMILY on his arm last week. Because family means everything to him. Let the proud and judgemental Mormons judge him. I will defend him to my last breath.

The world needs more young men like him. Not that he wouldn't be a fantastic missionary if he wanted to. But he is also seeing through some of the deception. Things are not always as they appear or as we were taught to believe. This church as it stands right now doesn't DESERVE him. But he loves Jesus and he loves his family. Treats everyone with love and respect. Does his best. That's enough for me.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by LDS Watchman »

Luke wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:27 pm The effects of cult brainwashing

And these people say Fundamentalists are cultists 🤣🤣

Get out of town
If these were fundamentalist cultists, the dad would have slit his son's throat ear to ear.

farmerchick
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by farmerchick »

probably a good idea for this young man to not go on a church mission...take his back pack and hit the road on a life mission far away from his parents. People are just batcrap crazy.

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Luke
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Luke »

Atticus wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 8:38 pm
Luke wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:27 pm The effects of cult brainwashing

And these people say Fundamentalists are cultists 🤣🤣

Get out of town
If these were fundamentalist cultists, the dad would have slit his son's throat ear to ear.
Sure

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Durzan
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Durzan »

h_p wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:41 pm "Assaulting" was putting it lightly. The article basically said the father was trying to murder his son. He was bashing his head against the wall and choking him.

So Christlike, so loving. Good grief.
Assault and battery, attempted murder… yeah the father def needs to be arrested after that.

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h_p
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by h_p »

Atticus wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 8:38 pm
Luke wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 3:27 pm The effects of cult brainwashing

And these people say Fundamentalists are cultists 🤣🤣

Get out of town
If these were fundamentalist cultists, the dad would have slit his son's throat ear to ear.
Yep, the restraint this good father used while trying to kill his own son is definite proof we're not that.

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gkearney
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by gkearney »

Sounds to me like this is a family with a good many more issues than just a son who doesn't want to go on a mission.

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

gkearney wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 9:57 am Sounds to me like this is a family with a good many more issues than just a son who doesn't want to go on a mission.
This did cross my mind.

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Thinker
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Thinker »

Durzan wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 8:53 am
h_p wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:41 pm "Assaulting" was putting it lightly. The article basically said the father was trying to murder his son. He was bashing his head against the wall and choking him.

So Christlike, so loving. Good grief.
Assault and battery, attempted murder… yeah the father def needs to be arrested after that.
This may not be reported in many lds households but I bet a degree of this insanity happens in many homes. Some say, “but it’s a good cult”… until they experience the rotten fruit for themselves. There are good aspects - but it’s like a narcissist who can ACT nice when things go their way… but the moment they’re tested, you see how ugly they can be. The foundation is weak, rotted.


Judge finds Clearfield man guilty of assaulting son for refusing to go on mission

“… Scott Keith Warner, 51, was convicted by a 2nd District Court judge on Sept. 8 of aggravated assault and domestic violence in the presence of a child, third-degree felonies, according to court records.

…The son told police that he and his father were arguing and after he told him he was not going on a mission, his father "grabbed him by the arm during this argument and the two began to physically fight. The victim reported that during this fight, he was knocked to the ground and Scott began to strike the victim's head into the wall repeatedly as well as squeeze the victim's neck with both hands”…

Another family member had also called 911, saying Warner was "choking" the victim, according to the charges...

Warner was found guilty during a bench trial on Sept. 8. He is scheduled to be sentenced on Oct. 21. A conviction on a third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in the Utah State Prison. The judge denied a request by prosecutors for Warner to be taken into custody pending his sentencing.”

https://www.ksl.com/article/50480691/ju ... on-mission

Hope the family is safe. I have often gotten the sense that MANY LDS are ticking time bombs - just need to be triggered. So many cases of psychological shadow not being properly processed. The church has let people down - even punished people for daring to look within rather than look to them/the profits.
  • “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” - Matt 23:13

    “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” - Luke 17:20-21
Last edited by Thinker on September 23rd, 2022, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Separatist wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:50 pm This stuff can happen when you grow up in a culture hearing stories of “I’d rather you come home in a casket than come home unworthy”
This story is proof that such a mentality can be more than lip service.

Juliet
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Juliet »

This is a demonic principality that has plagued the western culture for its entirity. It starts with forcing our children to go to kindergarten. We have to face it. We are not given authority to cause harm to our children. This is why D&C 19 explains this principle. If the truth is dangerous or threatening to the life of a growing person, you don't give it.
Milk they must receive lest they perish!

We don't force people to grow up on our time lines and our milestones. We step back, even teaching them truth! If it is in the best interest of the growing person. We help our children on their milestones, not ours. That is the way of righteous parenting. That is the way of nurturing. We simply cannot force a child to behave beyond their level of desire, understanding, commitment, and health from their perspective.

I wish our culture would step back and ask ourselves... What do I want.. For a change. And start allowing ourselves to learn how to survive in tandem with how fast we can run. This is how we first learn to nurture ourselves with love and understanding and then we can do the same with our children. We have to discover our own locus of internal control, then, instead of exerting external control on our children, we help them in turn gain their own internal locus of control.

If we could figure this out, mental illness, depression, self hate, self defeat, and discouragement would go away.

Joseph Smith and the Bible teaches fathers not to discourage your children, but let them know your love for them is stronger than the bands of death. Fill in the bands of death with what have you, the inability to meet someone's externals requirements... Even God's for that matter! Colossians 3:21

The church needs to scale back the language on responsibility. A mission is a decision to be made by an individual and God, the church doesn't put that responsibility on anyone without that individuals' understanding, consent, free will, desire, and the ability according to their own beliefs about their capabilities and not the organization deciding who is or is not capable. Such decisions are health based and cannot be made by anyone but the individual. 18 year olds are adults, and parents have no legal basis to assume responsibility for their child whether or not to serve a mission. Yeah, the church legal department needs to go over this because this man could sue them for being the active agent for causing the father to become violent, for unlawful compulsion to make a father feel responsible for loss of spiritual health if his son doesn't serve by making statements about the spiritual responsibility of each worthy man and serving a mission. That is not true for every individual case and the church needs to backtrack on that immediately as it is a premise for causing violence.
Last edited by Juliet on September 23rd, 2022, 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

blitzinstripes wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 4:16 pm He probably watched that GA fireside talk from a few months back. How dare the kid pray about going on a mission!
This was my first thought. When do think people will start drawing the connection between LDS teachings and the actual actions of their members?

Cult: "don't pray about a mission" "I'd rather you come home dead"

Son: "I don't want to go"

Dad: "well then you must die"

Members: "HoW cOuLd ThIs HaVe HaPpEnEd??? It's certainly not because our leaders taught it..."

CuriousThinker
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by CuriousThinker »

In the Church's Child and Youth Protection Training on page 26 it says the following-- Coercion
Coercion can occur when a leader compels a child using religious language or authority that implies a spiritual obligation or duty, permission, sanction, punishment, justification, intimidation, or threat. This is contrary to the Savior's teaching that individuals should lead "only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;"
Note- child and youth are to be used synonymously.

Are we really practicing what we preach?
What "leaders" is this supposed to cover?
Just the lay ones?
I have seen lots of coercion over the years from parents and leaders.

How do we make this better?

dreamtheater76
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by dreamtheater76 »

This is messed up. I didn’t go on a mission. I also had goodly parents. This kid doesn’t. Really feel bad for him. Sounds like this father is all about unrighteousness dominion and doesn’t know anything about the gospel or honoring his priesthood. What a dufus.

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Fred
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Fred »

His life was threatened either way. If he had agreed to go, RMN would have attempted to kill him with a jab.

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Niemand
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Niemand »

dreamtheater76 wrote: September 30th, 2022, 8:55 pm This is messed up. I didn’t go on a mission. I also had goodly parents. This kid doesn’t. Really feel bad for him. Sounds like this father is all about unrighteousness dominion and doesn’t know anything about the gospel or honoring his priesthood. What a dufus.
I don't believe formal missions are for everyone. That doesn't mean that the people who don't go are evil and Christless.

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Fred
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by Fred »

The missionary name tag may become known for fairyland, racism, and NWO, instead of Jesus. How can anyone that has been jabbed be taken seriously? Either they were deceived or are full blooded disciples of satan. Either way, unless they speak anti-Fauci, they should never be believed under any circumstances.

Stay Awake!

dreamtheater76
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Re: Dad beats up son for not going on a mission

Post by dreamtheater76 »

Juliet wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 11:41 am This is a demonic principality that has plagued the western culture for its entirity. It starts with forcing our children to go to kindergarten. We have to face it. We are not given authority to cause harm to our children. This is why D&C 19 explains this principle. If the truth is dangerous or threatening to the life of a growing person, you don't give it.
Milk they must receive lest they perish!

We don't force people to grow up on our time lines and our milestones. We step back, even teaching them truth! If it is in the best interest of the growing person. We help our children on their milestones, not ours. That is the way of righteous parenting. That is the way of nurturing. We simply cannot force a child to behave beyond their level of desire, understanding, commitment, and health from their perspective.

I wish our culture would step back and ask ourselves... What do I want.. For a change. And start allowing ourselves to learn how to survive in tandem with how fast we can run. This is how we first learn to nurture ourselves with love and understanding and then we can do the same with our children. We have to discover our own locus of internal control, then, instead of exerting external control on our children, we help them in turn gain their own internal locus of control.

If we could figure this out, mental illness, depression, self hate, self defeat, and discouragement would go away.

Joseph Smith and the Bible teaches fathers not to discourage your children, but let them know your love for them is stronger than the bands of death. Fill in the bands of death with what have you, the inability to meet someone's externals requirements... Even God's for that matter! Colossians 3:21

The church needs to scale back the language on responsibility. A mission is a decision to be made by an individual and God, the church doesn't put that responsibility on anyone without that individuals' understanding, consent, free will, desire, and the ability according to their own beliefs about their capabilities and not the organization deciding who is or is not capable. Such decisions are health based and cannot be made by anyone but the individual. 18 year olds are adults, and parents have no legal basis to assume responsibility for their child whether or not to serve a mission. Yeah, the church legal department needs to go over this because this man could sue them for being the active agent for causing the father to become violent, for unlawful compulsion to make a father feel responsible for loss of spiritual health if his son doesn't serve by making statements about the spiritual responsibility of each worthy man and serving a mission. That is not true for every individual case and the church needs to backtrack on that immediately as it is a premise for causing violence.
Big Pharma is making a fortune over medicating people. They don’t want to see a reduction in mental illness. I’m sure our bought and paid for contractors in the house and senate have gotten huge paychecks over the years on facilitating these drugs into your households. I’m sure bureaucrats can’t wait to use CPS to take this young man away from his abusive parents and use him for human trafficking or whatever other way they can make money off of him.

I remember dating a woman who came from a family of 15. All her brothers went on missions except for 1 who was shamed. She was bothered by me not serving a mission. I believe she was afraid what her family might think. Her brother was angry I was calling her on the phone and even talking to her. She lied to me she was moving far away in order to get rid of me. I knew from her constant borderline personality disorder type behaviors and the way her family treated her that she was a very abused person.

This young man is just another example of what I have seen in a good number of LDS homes over the years. Abuse and the teachings of the Savior contradict each other. Abuse uses force and is an enemy of agency. These abusive parents try to use the gospel to disguise themselves as good people but use it as a weapon to control people. This is a satanic practice I see often.

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