It's actually quite simple;Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 19th, 2022, 7:22 pmOh, come on. You can’t just let that one hang out there.Being There wrote: ↑September 19th, 2022, 7:14 pmI'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 19th, 2022, 5:03 amPlease elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?Being There wrote: ↑September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.
Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***
I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.
*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.
And btw, there are plenty of us who don’t “idolize” Joseph. He was mortal. He made mistakes. But to make the claim that you are requires a bit of explaining.
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.
Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.
Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).
and that's - just getting started.
but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.
but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.
JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS
Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
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then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922
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Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.
viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060
viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062