Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:22 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 5:03 am
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.
Please elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?
I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.
Oh, come on. You can’t just let that one hang out there.

And btw, there are plenty of us who don’t “idolize” Joseph. He was mortal. He made mistakes. But to make the claim that you are requires a bit of explaining.
It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:22 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 5:03 am

Please elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?
I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.
Oh, come on. You can’t just let that one hang out there.

And btw, there are plenty of us who don’t “idolize” Joseph. He was mortal. He made mistakes. But to make the claim that you are requires a bit of explaining.
It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062
Ok, I gotcha. If you believe that then sure.

I believe his associates killed him. So that kind of put a damper on things.
And yeah, I don’t believe he was a polygamist.

Also, I fully believe he fulfilled his mission. The brining forth of the BoM being one of the greatest works he was to perform.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Posts: 432

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:19 pm
...

I believe his associates killed him. So that kind of put a damper on things.
And yeah, I don’t believe he was a polygamist.

Also, I fully believe he fulfilled his mission. The brining forth of the BoM being one of the greatest works he was to perform.
Just because his associates killed him doesn't necessarily exonerate him of any involvement in it. There is another possibility that he was involved to some degree, whether teaching and/or practicing it, repented of it, and set out to start righting the ship which spawned the action taken by said associates.

I'm not necessarily in the above camp, just wanted to point it out. I get what you're saying and agree with him fulfilling his main mission, that of translating the BoM.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Dusty Wanderer wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:48 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:19 pm
...

I believe his associates killed him. So that kind of put a damper on things.
And yeah, I don’t believe he was a polygamist.

Also, I fully believe he fulfilled his mission. The brining forth of the BoM being one of the greatest works he was to perform.
Just because his associates killed him doesn't necessarily exonerate him of any involvement in it. There is another possibility that he was involved to some degree, whether teaching and/or practicing it, repented of it, and set out to start righting the ship which spawned the action taken by said associates.

I'm not necessarily in the above camp, just wanted to point it out. I get what you're saying and agree with him fulfilling his main mission, that of translating the BoM.
I referenced him being killed at an early age and his ability to bring about Zion. When you are killed early, that kind of puts a damper on your ability to work while in mortality.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Posts: 432

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:54 pm
Dusty Wanderer wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:48 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:19 pm
...

I believe his associates killed him. So that kind of put a damper on things.
And yeah, I don’t believe he was a polygamist.

Also, I fully believe he fulfilled his mission. The brining forth of the BoM being one of the greatest works he was to perform.
Just because his associates killed him doesn't necessarily exonerate him of any involvement in it. There is another possibility that he was involved to some degree, whether teaching and/or practicing it, repented of it, and set out to start righting the ship which spawned the action taken by said associates.

I'm not necessarily in the above camp, just wanted to point it out. I get what you're saying and agree with him fulfilling his main mission, that of translating the BoM.
I referenced him being killed at an early age and his ability to bring about Zion. When you are killed early, that kind of puts a damper on your ability to work while in mortality.
Agreed. And I don't see how Joseph deserves any more blame than Moses does for Israel refusing to ascend the mount.

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Jason
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Posts: 18089

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am

Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure...
talk about a twist on the scriptures.. lol.

I think you need to take a closer look at just WHO the Book of Mormon is referring to
when they say "Gentiles"

this is probably the best video I've ever seen
proving we - the LDS church are indeed the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.
Read Joseph Smith’s prophecy as noted by Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Heber C Kimball…they are very blatant about the gentile nations and what happens after the missionaries are called home from gentile nations…specifically Europe and US

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Jason
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Posts: 18089

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:06 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
like most members -- (who just blindly follow, instead of really reading and knowing the scriptures)
you still have your head in the sand, because you don't want to see the truth, much less accept it -
that the church has been corrupted, and has fallen into apostasy; just as the scriptures warned it would.
We didn't heed the warnings of the book that was given to us - The Book of Mormon - (a book of warning)
We are repeating their history -
and what happened to them -- and now, has happened to us.
So now, because of our apostasy,
we will lose the gospel - the gospel will be taken from us, and given back to The House of Israel.

The first will be last and the last, first

"At the first, the Jews (in the Book of Mormon vernacular, meaning the house of Israel) were redeemed, then they rejected God and the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. (Acts 10.) In these last days, Joseph Smith restored the gospel among the Gentiles; and when they reject it, it will be taken back to the Jews, and they will be redeemed.
Hence, the first will be last and the last, first."

(1 Ne. 13:42; Jacob 5:63; Ether 13:12; D&C 88:59; Matt. 19:30; 20:8,16.)


"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
The Lord doesn't say if, he says WHEN

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you:
At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things,
and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles SHALL NOT have POWER over you;
but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge
of the fulness of my gospel.

---------------------------------------------
3 Nephi 21
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

"The great and marvelous work - includes the restoration of the gospel, but that's just the beginning.
Most of the Lord's "great and marvelous work" of which Nephi speaks is still future. - with the entire purpose being -
to restore the Lord's ancient covenant people - The House of Israel.
And the man that shall declare it, (verse 9) is the Lord's end-time servant - the Davidic servant that
"brings forth (these great and marvelous revelations )unto the Gentiles" - being
the words of Christ (the sealed portion) (verse 11) to the church, but they don't believe it (verse 9)
and "he shall be marred because of them" (verse 10) (these words condemn the Lord's people - our church)
And because they reject these new revelations and the words of Christ and His servant,
"(it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant." (verse 11)

quote
"When the Lord's servant comes to us with the words of Christ (sealed portion)
and we reject them, and him, we will have filled the full measure of our iniquity
and the Lord will take the gospel from us, and give it back to the House of Israel.
hence "the first will be last, and last first"
And when that happens, The Times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.

So great is this challenge, in fact, that many Gentiles will not accept it.
Instead, they will reject the words of Christ, and be "cut off" as
bitter branches, from His people (3 Nephi 21:11"

We Gentiles, and also the entire World, will have two choices when the Davidic King arrives: we will either
(1) harden our hearts to our own condemnation and destruction; or else
(2) we will repent and prepare to join Zion.
There will be a complete division between the righteous and the wicked in that day."
end quote

3 Nephi 21

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

quote
"These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings.
They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them.
Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them.
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long.
But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy;
Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ."
Speak of head in sand yet ignorance of so much prophecy… who takes the gospel to the Jews?

Just a hint…same church Joseph Smith restored…warts and all

still getting it done…whereas all the break offs…not so much…and that’s giving them tremendous credit putting it nicely…

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
another one - who doesn't know the scriptures -
and who is even blind to the signs of the times,
and blind to a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy.

It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.

EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH IS SPEAKING TO THE LORD'S END-TIME PEOPLE -
(US - OUR CORRUPT CHURCH TODAY.)

The church has completely fallen - years ago. and "have lapsed into apostasy."
The first Chapter of Isaiah verse 4 reveals that.

4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

From addressing his people personally as “Israel . . . my people” (v 3), Jehovah now addresses them impersonally as “a nation,” signifying their alienated state. Additionally, a regression occurs from his people’s simply going “astray” to their burdening themselves with “sin,” which, over time, ends in outright “wrongdoing.” That occurs collectively and generationally. The “offspring of wrongdoers” turn into “perverse children,” meaning that the rising generation has by now become thoroughly corrupt. “Forsaking” Jehovah and “spurning” him finally become conscious and deliberate acts.

The Holy One of Israel. The title of “Holy One,” together with “Valiant One” (v 24) designates Israel’s God more than thirty times in the Book of Isaiah. In this case, it contrasts Jehovah’s holiness with his people’s unholiness. Still, it points to what Jehovah’s people should become—“holy” or “sanctified,” like their God. Both titles—“Holy One” and “Valiant One”—characterize Israel’s God as his people’s exemplar. We observe this in an instance in which Jehovah exempts a righteous remnant of his people called his “holy ones” and “valiant ones” from a worldwide destruction (Isaiah 13:3).

They have lapsed into apostasy. Hebrew nazoru ahor signifies that Jehovah’s people have become entirely “estranged” from him. They have “gone backwards” to what they used to be before they became Jehovah’s covenant people, when they didn’t know their God. In effect, they have become godless again like the world’s heathen nations, but now more so because they have rejected the light they once had. The apostasy into which they began to backslide a generation ago is now complete. As a consequence, instead of enjoying the blessings of the covenant, they must suffer its curses.
Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
Breathtaking apostasy indeed…

How was it put…Joseph Smith did more than any other person with the exception of Jesus Christ for the salvation of men…if that’s failure…sign me up!!!

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Obeone
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Obeone »

Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
Joseph Smith ultimately laid down his life for the redemption of Zion. He failed primarily because the church would not listen to the Lord enough.

But he will succeed in 8 years.

Then you will eat your words, if you survive.

Either way, you will be proven shamefully wrong when Joseph is resurrected within 6 years.

Joseph is one of the 7 heads of dispensations in the book of Revelation (the seven trumpets John spoke of), and Joseph Smith is one of the best people who ever lived in this world.
D&C 122
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
2 While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.
3 And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.
4 And although their influence shall cast thee into trouble, and into bars and walls, thou shalt be had in honor; and but for a small moment and thy voice shall be more terrible in the midst of thine enemies than the fierce lion, because of thy righteousness; and thy God shall stand by thee forever and ever.
Read the whole section 122. You might learn something.

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Jason
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Posts: 18089

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

It speaks volumes when in order for a paradigm to be correct…all the prophets down to Joseph Smith must be fallen…all while citing the work product of said prophets….down to today when still engaged in same message and distribution of said work products…not even touching upon the previous prophets going back to the beginning of time…

Can rest assured that paradigm is a quick path to apostasy, destruction, and ultimately hell as the devil is the author of it.

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:19 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 8:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:22 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:14 pm

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.
Oh, come on. You can’t just let that one hang out there.

And btw, there are plenty of us who don’t “idolize” Joseph. He was mortal. He made mistakes. But to make the claim that you are requires a bit of explaining.
It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062
Ok, I gotcha. If you believe that then sure.

I believe his associates killed him. So that kind of put a damper on things.
And yeah, I don’t believe he was a polygamist.

Also, I fully believe he fulfilled his mission. The brining forth of the BoM being one of the greatest works he was to perform.
Something that I've never said about this subject, but maybe this is the place for it. I fully realize that what I am about to say is speculative, as all conclusions on this are.

When I studied out the history of the church I read everything I could obtain without the ability to enter church archives. That doesn't mean my conclusions are right, it just means that I did all I could to get the "entire view".
My conclusion, some 30 yrs ago was that JS was the one responsible for teaching spiritual wifery among a very select group. A few of them twisted it and used it for self gratification. Joseph then publicly distanced himself from them.

It is my take that husbands of the wives which had been approached or even had engaged in intimate relationships with JS in the principle of "spiritual wifery" were the ones that killed Joseph. I reached this conclusion far before all of the current fanfare on this subject.

When JS said 3 times publicly, (paraphrased), "If I told you what I know, you would kill me".

He meant it. ...and they did.

That's just my conclusion and it could be wrong, and I don't need to be right because it doesn't matter to me now. JS taught over and over that it is our responsibility to be saved through Jesus Christ, not the prophet's. He was right! Men are men and will always be men. I see no reason to argue on these subjects.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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FrankOne wrote: September 20th, 2022, 12:04 pm
Something that I've never said about this subject, but maybe this is the place for it. I fully realize that what I am about to say is speculative, as all conclusions on this are.

When I studied out the history of the church I read everything I could obtain without the ability to enter church archives. That doesn't mean my conclusions are right, it just means that I did all I could to get the "entire view".
My conclusion, some 30 yrs ago was that JS was the one responsible for teaching spiritual wifery among a very select group. A few of them twisted it and used it for self gratification. Joseph then publicly distanced himself from them.

It is my take that husbands of the wives which had been approached or even had engaged in intimate relationships with JS in the principle of "spiritual wifery" were the ones that killed Joseph. I reached this conclusion far before all of the current fanfare on this subject.

When JS said 3 times publicly, (paraphrased), "If I told you what I know, you would kill me".

He meant it. ...and they did.

That's just my conclusion and it could be wrong, and I don't need to be right because it doesn't matter to me now. JS taught over and over that it is our responsibility to be saved through Jesus Christ, not the prophet's. He was right! Men are men and will always be men. I see no reason to argue on these subjects.
Yeah... that's certainly one way to look at it. :)

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 19th, 2022, 11:42 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
Joseph Smith ultimately laid down his life for the redemption of Zion. He failed primarily because the church would not listen to the Lord enough.

But he will succeed in 8 years.

Then you will eat your words, if you survive.

Either way, you will be proven shamefully wrong when Joseph is resurrected within 6 years.

Joseph is one of the 7 heads of dispensations in the book of Revelation (the seven trumpets John spoke of), and Joseph Smith is one of the best people who ever lived in this world.
D&C 122
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
2 While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.
3 And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.
4 And although their influence shall cast thee into trouble, and into bars and walls, thou shalt be had in honor; and but for a small moment and thy voice shall be more terrible in the midst of thine enemies than the fierce lion, because of thy righteousness; and thy God shall stand by thee forever and ever.
Read the whole section 122. You might learn something.
when Joseph is resurrected ! lol.

ya, when aliens invade the Earth. lol.

well - there's another deceived one. SMH

you should go join Phil and his group.

A challenge for all Phil Davis/DoC junkies
viewtopic.php?p=1256611&hilit=Phil+junkies#p1256611
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 19th, 2022, 10:17 pm
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am

We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure...
talk about a twist on the scriptures.. lol.

I think you need to take a closer look at just WHO the Book of Mormon is referring to
when they say "Gentiles"

this is probably the best video I've ever seen
proving we - the LDS church are indeed the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.
Read Joseph Smith’s prophecy as noted by Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Heber C Kimball…they are very blatant about the gentile nations and what happens after the missionaries are called home from gentile nations…specifically Europe and US
Joseph Smith’s prophecy ?
lol.

another JS worshiper.

hate to tell ya this, but everything JS supposedly said - IS NOT SCRIPTURE.

there's hundreds of scriptures proving the LDS church are the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.
and you quote some supposed prophesy from JS. lol.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 20th, 2022, 5:32 pm
Jason wrote: September 19th, 2022, 10:17 pm
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure...
talk about a twist on the scriptures.. lol.

I think you need to take a closer look at just WHO the Book of Mormon is referring to
when they say "Gentiles"

this is probably the best video I've ever seen
proving we - the LDS church are indeed the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.
Read Joseph Smith’s prophecy as noted by Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Heber C Kimball…they are very blatant about the gentile nations and what happens after the missionaries are called home from gentile nations…specifically Europe and US
Joseph Smith’s prophecy ?
lol.

another JS worshiper.

hate to tell ya this, but everything JS supposedly said - IS NOT SCRIPTURE.

there's hundreds of scriptures proving the LDS church are the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.
and you quote some supposed prophesy from JS. lol.
No worries...you go yours...I'll go mine...

His prophecy is literally being fulfilled right before our eyes though...watching the states turn on each other...Europe going into full meltdown...literally right before our eyes...

For those that see though I reckon....

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Jason wrote: September 20th, 2022, 7:00 am It speaks volumes when in order for a paradigm to be correct…all the prophets down to Joseph Smith must be fallen…all while citing the work product of said prophets….down to today when still engaged in same message and distribution of said work products…not even touching upon the previous prophets going back to the beginning of time…

Can rest assured that paradigm is a quick path to apostasy, destruction, and ultimately hell as the devil is the author of it.
It is interesting that the word Apostasy has taken on a fairly resolute meaning even though the word is , at best, ambiguous. Today, it is used by organized religions as a term which describes people , out of error or sin or arrogance, leave the church.

In the original greek, it more goes to someone that withdraws, or exits, not out of 'sin' or error but as a personal judgment call from his own observations that the organization of which he was affiliated has become something that he no longer wishes to be a part of.

Apostater (gk) - a person who withdraws from an assembly, protesting against the enactments it is about to make.
Apostateo (gk) - to stand away from. To withdraw from, to depart from
Apostasis (gk) - defection, removal to a distance, departure
and more toward the root of the word: Aposeio gk - to shake off, to deliver ones self from
Also for apostle-
Apostolos (gk) - One who is sent on missions, employed for missions. (again, the root apost- means to go away) One could easily understand that the word Apostle had a two fold meaning when applied to the original apostles. They left what they knew to become disciples of Christ.
- Why is it today that 'apostles' are administrators and up until the late 1980's sat on corporate boards such as Zions Bank and Union Pacific railroad? (this practice was discontinued due to public scrutiny). In Christ's day, the apostles did exactly as the word means. Today? not so much. Words are changed to fit man's skewed needs.

source- Greek and English Lexicon Hilliard, Gray 1839.

You'll note that these definitions do not imply any error in the action of departing with one of them implying that the departure is due to a personal moral decision.

As many would understand, the "great apostasy" could very well mean an abandoning of an organization(s)
which has fallen.

The apostates could very well be making the moral and wise choice even though the religious authorities would label them as heretics.

As can be gleaned from this post, I am certainly a heretic as judged by authoritative standards. Authority discourages freedom of worshiping God by the dictates of one's own conscience. They instruct "worship in the manner that we dictate and if you deviate from this then you ....are condemned by our authority".

Are we not all to be "under God" instead of "under men"?

Words are great tools to learn from. Original meanings and Etymologies tell the truth of a word. Many times they directly contradict the modern definitions. I wonder how they get so twisted?

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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Of course if that’s all true…what’s the point of organized religion…yet structure and authority is what Jesus of old and new established

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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And history has repeatedly shown that "organized religion" becomes corrupt. To state that Christ did something, yet turning a blind eye today to all of the prophecies of apostasy in our day, is myopic at best. I mean, how often is organized religion called out in the BoM alone? Lots of times.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Jason wrote: September 21st, 2022, 2:43 am Of course if that’s all true…what’s the point of organized religion…yet structure and authority is what Jesus of old and new established
Many great men have pointed out all through history that all organizations, no matter how noble the foundation, all end up failing due to the men eventually turning to serving the machine rather than the purpose of it. The purpose becomes forgotten. The "newness" and the zeal diminishes. Men turn toward serving the structure itself. , not the spirit within it.

What I'm saying isn't new. Does anyone really believe that the church focusing on profit is a good idea? Really? It's the CORPORATION that is driven to make money. Corporate think. The only men in this world that would agree with this course are those that are also lost to the pursuit , not of happiness, but the pursuit of MONEY. yah, their words deny it, but their lives prove differently.

Standing off from an organization which has lost the gifts of the spirit, is called apostasy. The current decisions being made in regards to the vaks, and the pushing thereof simply indicates the loss of the spirit in leadership. The leadership has failed it's purpose.

For those that still feel the need to defend the current trend; the 15 could have simply said from the very beginning of the covid event .

"This virus is something that is concerning us, as it is concerning everyone in the world. It is everyone's choice as to whether take the vaccine or choose alternative methods of treatment. Personal prayer and following the spirit is of utmost importance. "

and NO MORE. but...they didn't say that did they? They urged it, promoted it, called it a miracle and godsend, used the IDENTICAL words as Fauci , and then did a full page photo op of RMN getting it.

The results of this vaks indicate nothing but inefficacy and suffering. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then that is your viewpoint, but...it isn't factual nor is it true.

I stand off from it.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 21st, 2022, 2:43 am Of course if that’s all true…what’s the point of organized religion…yet structure and authority is what Jesus of old and new established
exactly, what's the point.

This is what Jesus taught about "His church" and what it is.

as I've said before

"maybe you need to understand what the word "church" means
and how the Lord uses it.

do I have to go to any church ?

quote
"The Lord restored His church, but what is His church ?


D&C 10
67
Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me,
but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end,
him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

now where have I heard that before - "rock" "and upon this rock I will build my church"
Matthew 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood
hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church;

and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


* "every time "church" is mentioned in the New Testament,
it refers only to the people who believe in Christ"

so the Lord is saying,
WHOEVER repents, and comes to Him IS His church, (ANYONE)
and He will build His church, with those that come to Him -
the way how it was revealed to Peter that He was the Christ -
that is - through the rock of revelation - His spirit - the Holy Ghost."
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 20th, 2022, 7:00 am

Can rest assured that paradigm is a quick path to apostasy, destruction, and ultimately hell as the devil is the author of it.
nice to see you talking about the church and where it's headed - to hell.

* but don't you know !
it's a "godsend "

ya, it's a godsend alright -
it sends you to God ( or its it really "*** carefully down to hell" ) FAST !


To anyone that's not blind, it should be obvious that
if you're not a prophet - (and Nelson is not) but you claim to be, then you are really a false prophet.

a "godsend" - so ridiculous to say such a thing, That alone shows Nelson's a false prophet.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2

The church is led by a false prophet -
leading thousands of members away from the Lord;
and many, even to their death.

His example alone - asking his followers to be "GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
and follow him and join with those World leaders - who he follows - and who serve satan -
speaks for itself.

* "WE HAVE PRAYED FOR THIS LITERAL GODSEND.
RECEIVING THE VACCINE IS PART OF OUR PERSONAL EFFORTS TO BE
GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
RMN

Image

as far as Nelson - and who he thinks he is - "pride cometh before the fall"

and those that still think that "all is well in Zion" -
may want to reconsider;
and come to the realization - that the church is not doing the Lord's will,
but the will of evil men - who control them - and the World.

***
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say:
All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth,
all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
***

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
2 Nephi 28

uniting with the whore Church - that "great and abominable church" of the devil
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... e#p1134666

"Let's Go Shopping"
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... g#p1267669

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 19th, 2022, 11:42 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
Joseph Smith ultimately laid down his life for the redemption of Zion. He failed primarily because the church would not listen to the Lord enough.

But he will succeed in 8 years.

Then you will eat your words, if you survive.

Either way, you will be proven shamefully wrong when Joseph is resurrected within 6 years.

Joseph is one of the 7 heads of dispensations in the book of Revelation (the seven trumpets John spoke of), and Joseph Smith is one of the best people who ever lived in this world.
D&C 122
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
2 While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.
3 And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.
4 And although their influence shall cast thee into trouble, and into bars and walls, thou shalt be had in honor; and but for a small moment and thy voice shall be more terrible in the midst of thine enemies than the fierce lion, because of thy righteousness; and thy God shall stand by thee forever and ever.
Read the whole section 122. You might learn something.
WHERE do you even come up with all this stuff.
Whoever it is that comes up with all this sure has an imagination.

and as far as the seven trumpets in the seventh seal in Revelation -
these are judgements that will be poured out during the tribulation period;
and has NOTHING to do with JS.
SMH

"The seven trumpets are described in Revelation 8:6–9:19 and 11:15–19.
The seven trumpets are the “contents” of the seventh seal judgment,
in that the seventh seal summons the angels who sound the trumpets (Revelation 8:1–5).
The judgments heralded by the seven trumpets will take place during the tribulation period in the end times.

The first trumpet. When the first angel sounds his trumpet, the world experiences “hail and fire mixed with blood” (Revelation 8:7). One third of the world’s trees are burned up in this plague, and all the grass is consumed. This judgment bears some similarities to the seventh plague in Egypt (see Exodus 9:23–24).

The second trumpet. In heaven, a second angel sounds a trumpet. The result is that “something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea” (Revelation 8:8). A third of the sea turns to blood, a third of the ships sink, and a third of ocean life dies (verse 9). This judgment is similar in some ways to the first plague in Egypt (see Exodus 7:20–21).

The third trumpet. The third trumpet judgment is like the second, except it affects the world’s freshwater lakes and rivers instead of the oceans. Specifically, “a great star, blazing like a torch” falls from the sky and poisons a third of the water supply (Revelation 8:10). This star is given the name Wormwood, and many people die (verse 11). In botany, wormwood (Artemisia absinthium) is a shrub-like plant noted for its extreme bitterness and poisonous properties.

The fourth trumpet. The fourth of the seven trumpets brings about changes in the heavens. “A third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night” (Revelation 8:12).

Following the fourth trumpet judgment, John notes a special warning that comes from an eagle flying through the air. This eagle cries out with a loud voice, saying, “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels” (Revelation 8:13). For this reason, the fifth, sixth, and seventh trumpets are referred to as the “three woes.”

The fifth trumpet. The fifth trumpet (and the first woe) results in a terrifying plague of “demonic locusts” that attack and torture the unsaved for five months (Revelation 9:1–11). The plague begins with a “star” falling from heaven. This star is most likely a fallen angel, as he is given “the key to the shaft of the Abyss” (verse 1). He opens the Abyss, releasing a horde of “locusts” with “power like that of scorpions” (verse 3). The locusts do not touch the plant life of earth; rather, they head straight for “those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads” (verse 4). For five months, these locusts torment people, whose agony is so great that they will wish to die, “but death will elude them” (verse 6). The locusts are not allowed to kill anyone, only to torture them.

These demonic “locusts” have a “king,” who is the angel of the Abyss (Revelation 9:11). In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, and in Greek it’s Apollyon, meaning “Destroyer.” The locusts themselves are described in unusual terms: they look like “horses prepared for battle” (verse 7). They wear something like “crowns of gold,” and their faces are vaguely human (verse 7). They have hair “like women’s hair” and teeth “like lions’ teeth” (verse 8). They have something like iron breastplates, and their wings sound like “the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle” (verse 9). Like scorpions, they have stings in their tails (verse 10). This description has prompted many different interpretations: is this a vision of helicopters, of barbarian warriors, of a satanically empowered army, or of actual creatures from the pit of hell? We won’t know for sure until it happens.

The sixth trumpet. The sixth trumpet (and the second woe) involves the onslaught of another demonic horde (Revelation 9:12–21). Once the sixth trumpet sounds, a voice from the altar of God calls for the release of “the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates” (verse 14). These four angels had been kept in captivity for just this purpose: to wreak destruction during the tribulation (verse 15). These four wicked angels lead a supernatural cavalry of thousands upon thousands to kill a third of humanity (verse 16). The riders have breastplates of “fiery red, dark blue, and yellow” (verse 17). Their horses have “the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur,” and “their tails were like snakes” (verses 18–19). They kill with their mouths and with their tails.

Despite the severity and horror of these plagues, the survivors on earth still refuse to repent. They continue in their idolatry, their murder, their sorcery, their sexual immorality, and their theft (Revelation 9:20–21).

Following the sixth trumpet judgment is a literary interlude. John sees an angel descend from heaven with a little scroll in his hand. A promise is given that “the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet” (Revelation 10:7), and John is told that he must prophesy some more (verse 11). Next comes a description of the two witnesses who will preach in Jerusalem and perform miracles before they are murdered. God will then raise them back to life and take them to heaven (Revelation 11:1–13).

The seventh trumpet. The seventh trumpet (and the third woe) sounds, and immediately there are loud voices in heaven saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 11:15).
The twenty-four elders say, “The time has come for . . . destroying those who destroy the earth” (verse 18). Obviously, God is about to wrap things up once and for all. At the sound of the seventh trumpet, the temple of God is opened in heaven, and “within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm” (verse 19).

Thus end the seven trumpet judgments. All is set for the seven angels with the seven bowls of God’s wrath. These angels stand inside the now-open temple, ready to step forward and bring the final judgments on earth (Revelation 15).

end quote

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

I"m repeating this from a post above because it resolves all debate on what the Church is. Anything other than this is a sideways argument , so I'll just post this point and nothing else.

Christ:

Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me,
but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Any comments?

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

FrankOne wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:20 pm I"m repeating this from a post above because it resolves all debate on what the Church is. Anything other than this is a sideways argument , so I'll just post this point and nothing else.

Christ:

Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me,
but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Any comments?
3 Nephi 11 is meant to clearly outline Christ's role as Savior. Redemption comes ONLY through Him and His atonement. That is why He states no other doctrine should be declared. But, what he also clarifies in this chapter is that these steps (faith, repentance) are the foundation that we are to build upon. It wasn't the end of his doctrine.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:32 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:20 pm I"m repeating this from a post above because it resolves all debate on what the Church is. Anything other than this is a sideways argument , so I'll just post this point and nothing else.

Christ:

Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me,
but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Any comments?


3 Nephi 11 is meant to clearly outline Christ's role as Savior. Redemption comes ONLY through Him and His atonement. That is why He states no other doctrine should be declared. But, what he also clarifies in this chapter is that these steps (faith, repentance) are the foundation that we are to build upon. It wasn't the end of his doctrine.
It's noteworthy that the baptism ordinance does not state that the person is being baptized into any 'church.'

An organization is just that. The church are the people that repent and go to Christ for their salvation. They don't go to "church" for their salvation. We are the church.

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