Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

HVDC wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:02 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:23 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm

The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
The government and the IRS would differ with you on that subject. You are technically correct in a sense, but the members of the corporation are the members of the church. The body of the corporation is the body of the church.
I understand this particular legal arrangement only recognizes President Nelson as the sole member of the church.

The rest of us are not shareholders, I.e. members.

Sir H
this subject has made me curious of the actual structure of the church and how it ties in with the corporation. Since the corporation or one of it's sub corporations receives the money from the members under the 501c3 umbrella, there must needs be a direct link of everything.

I can now see that I'm wrong about the church members being actual members of any of the corporations. I would imagine a reading of the charter and bylaws of each corporation would be fascinating if not disturbing. There would have to be a mention of the members tithes and donations as well as legal definitions for "member".

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HereWeGo
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by HereWeGo »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 4:10 pm 10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
There is only one gentile church/group of people who have had the "fullness of my gospel". The Father said "When" they "shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."

This is what has happened to the LDS Church and other mormon churches. They rejected the fulness which they were given and this has put them into real apostasy.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Subcomandante »

HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:53 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 4:10 pm 10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
There is only one gentile church/group of people who have had the "fullness of my gospel". The Father said "When" they "shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."

This is what has happened to the LDS Church and other mormon churches. They rejected the fulness which they were given and this has put them into real apostasy.
This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 4:10 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
perhaps this will help:

3 Nephi 16:10 - The words of Christ:

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
Gentile nations...particularly Europe as JS noted so long ago...and we are on the cusp of that...missionaries being called home...

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HereWeGo
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by HereWeGo »

Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 7:53 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
As noted earlier 3 Nephi 16:10-11 is a starter. We are included as part of the Gentile nation. The Lord then states in verse 11 that the fullness of the gospel will be taken and given to another. This same pattern/prophecy is repeated by Moroni in Ether 12. He begin by lamenting his weakness in writing, and how the gentile who receive the BoM will judge his words. Then we get to these verses:

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.
36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.
37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

The “talent” is the fullness of the gospel. The same thing that Christ states in 3 Nephi 16:10.

We can go even further and add the condemnation from D&C 84:

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

If you do a deep study of the doctrines and principles of the BoM, you’ll quickly realize it is one of the greatest books that condemns the LDS church. The LDS church does not teach much of the doctrine found in the BoM. In fact, many of the presidents of the church have taught ideologies that are completely contrary to what is taught in the BoM. Nelson himself being one of the most blatant offenders. Even Benson had some doozies.
Don't leave out the context...
Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.

But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;

and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
young lions among the sheep...

Isn't it ironic that "wicked" people would sacrifice so much time, energy, and resources to distribute the very sources that condemn them?

Or perhaps there is a gross misread and wresting of the scriptures...

FYI...much of what you wrest has been clearly defined in writings and prophecies of the same man who brought you the BoM and the Doctrine & Covenants...and it doesn't support the interpretation or rendition you are peddling...

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
Interesting reference to pride (beam/mote)....and fyi...the main body of the church will survive the fallout. The corporation will not of course...because the entire fabric that requires the "official" corporation is going to disappear...but the priesthood keys and organization of the church will survive and thrive. In fact people will trek from across the country to be with the saints in the Rocky Mountains and live under their laws/protection. We have no reason to doubt that the balance of prophecy given with the prophecy concerning the civil war will come to pass just as every jot of that portion of the prophecy was fulfilled to the letter.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:11 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 7:53 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
As noted earlier 3 Nephi 16:10-11 is a starter. We are included as part of the Gentile nation. The Lord then states in verse 11 that the fullness of the gospel will be taken and given to another. This same pattern/prophecy is repeated by Moroni in Ether 12. He begin by lamenting his weakness in writing, and how the gentile who receive the BoM will judge his words. Then we get to these verses:

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.
36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.
37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

The “talent” is the fullness of the gospel. The same thing that Christ states in 3 Nephi 16:10.

We can go even further and add the condemnation from D&C 84:

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

If you do a deep study of the doctrines and principles of the BoM, you’ll quickly realize it is one of the greatest books that condemns the LDS church. The LDS church does not teach much of the doctrine found in the BoM. In fact, many of the presidents of the church have taught ideologies that are completely contrary to what is taught in the BoM. Nelson himself being one of the most blatant offenders. Even Benson had some doozies.
Don't leave out the context...
Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.

But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;

and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
young lions among the sheep...

Isn't it ironic that "wicked" people would sacrifice so much time, energy, and resources to distribute the very sources that condemn them?

Or perhaps there is a gross misread and wresting of the scriptures...

FYI...much of what you wrest has been clearly defined in writings and prophecies of the same man who brought you the BoM and the Doctrine & Covenants...and it doesn't support the interpretation or rendition you are peddling...
I chose not to quote the entire chapter. And that “if” has happened. It is no longer an “if”, but a “now what.”

And just because the LDS church shared the BoM doesn’t mean the actually live it.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:19 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:11 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 7:53 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
As noted earlier 3 Nephi 16:10-11 is a starter. We are included as part of the Gentile nation. The Lord then states in verse 11 that the fullness of the gospel will be taken and given to another. This same pattern/prophecy is repeated by Moroni in Ether 12. He begin by lamenting his weakness in writing, and how the gentile who receive the BoM will judge his words. Then we get to these verses:

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.
36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.
37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

The “talent” is the fullness of the gospel. The same thing that Christ states in 3 Nephi 16:10.

We can go even further and add the condemnation from D&C 84:

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

If you do a deep study of the doctrines and principles of the BoM, you’ll quickly realize it is one of the greatest books that condemns the LDS church. The LDS church does not teach much of the doctrine found in the BoM. In fact, many of the presidents of the church have taught ideologies that are completely contrary to what is taught in the BoM. Nelson himself being one of the most blatant offenders. Even Benson had some doozies.
Don't leave out the context...
Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.

But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;

and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
young lions among the sheep...

Isn't it ironic that "wicked" people would sacrifice so much time, energy, and resources to distribute the very sources that condemn them?

Or perhaps there is a gross misread and wresting of the scriptures...

FYI...much of what you wrest has been clearly defined in writings and prophecies of the same man who brought you the BoM and the Doctrine & Covenants...and it doesn't support the interpretation or rendition you are peddling...
I chose not to quote the entire chapter. And that “if” has happened. It is no longer an “if”, but a “now what.”

And just because the LDS church shared the BoM doesn’t mean the actually live it.
...you mean continue to share more than ever....it's not past tense...

there is so much that has been prophesied and said expanding upon what is stated there....from the very man who brought those things into existence...you would do well to keep studying...rather than trying to fit to preformed ideas...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:19 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:11 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 7:53 pm

As noted earlier 3 Nephi 16:10-11 is a starter. We are included as part of the Gentile nation. The Lord then states in verse 11 that the fullness of the gospel will be taken and given to another. This same pattern/prophecy is repeated by Moroni in Ether 12. He begin by lamenting his weakness in writing, and how the gentile who receive the BoM will judge his words. Then we get to these verses:

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.
36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.
37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

The “talent” is the fullness of the gospel. The same thing that Christ states in 3 Nephi 16:10.

We can go even further and add the condemnation from D&C 84:

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

If you do a deep study of the doctrines and principles of the BoM, you’ll quickly realize it is one of the greatest books that condemns the LDS church. The LDS church does not teach much of the doctrine found in the BoM. In fact, many of the presidents of the church have taught ideologies that are completely contrary to what is taught in the BoM. Nelson himself being one of the most blatant offenders. Even Benson had some doozies.
Don't leave out the context...
Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.

But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;

and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
young lions among the sheep...

Isn't it ironic that "wicked" people would sacrifice so much time, energy, and resources to distribute the very sources that condemn them?

Or perhaps there is a gross misread and wresting of the scriptures...

FYI...much of what you wrest has been clearly defined in writings and prophecies of the same man who brought you the BoM and the Doctrine & Covenants...and it doesn't support the interpretation or rendition you are peddling...
I chose not to quote the entire chapter. And that “if” has happened. It is no longer an “if”, but a “now what.”

And just because the LDS church shared the BoM doesn’t mean the actually live it.
...you mean continue to share more than ever....it's not past tense...

there is so much that has been prophesied and said expanding upon what is stated there....from the very man who brought those things into existence...you would do well to keep studying...rather than trying to fit to preformed ideas...
You can see the difference between sharing the book and actually living the doctrine, right? Nelson has shared things recently that directly contradict the words of Christ.

How about you enlighten me, since you sounds like such a wise sage.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:26 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:19 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:11 pm

Don't leave out the context...



young lions among the sheep...

Isn't it ironic that "wicked" people would sacrifice so much time, energy, and resources to distribute the very sources that condemn them?

Or perhaps there is a gross misread and wresting of the scriptures...

FYI...much of what you wrest has been clearly defined in writings and prophecies of the same man who brought you the BoM and the Doctrine & Covenants...and it doesn't support the interpretation or rendition you are peddling...
I chose not to quote the entire chapter. And that “if” has happened. It is no longer an “if”, but a “now what.”

And just because the LDS church shared the BoM doesn’t mean the actually live it.
...you mean continue to share more than ever....it's not past tense...

there is so much that has been prophesied and said expanding upon what is stated there....from the very man who brought those things into existence...you would do well to keep studying...rather than trying to fit to preformed ideas...
You can see the difference between sharing the book and actually living the doctrine, right? Nelson has shared things recently that directly contradict the words of Christ.

How about you enlighten me, since you sounds like such a wise sage.
I don't have the capability of enlightening you...has to come from above...and you have to be honestly searching...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

It’s funny you don’t address the blatant contradictions of the LDS church and the BoM. Especially Nelson.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:32 pm It’s funny you don’t address the blatant contradictions of the LDS church and the BoM. Especially Nelson.
I'm not aware of any to address...

Have you tried to fit your rendition of 3 Nephi 16:10-11with the rest of 3rd Nephi...like chapters 20, 21, 22, 24, 25?

Tried to fit it in with the prophesies of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Heber C Kimball, and so many others who have described that transition from the gentile nations (missionaries called home)?

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Obeone
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Obeone »

HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure...
talk about a twist on the scriptures.. lol.

I think you need to take a closer look at just WHO the Book of Mormon is referring to
when they say "Gentiles"

this is probably the best video I've ever seen
proving we - the LDS church are indeed the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am

We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
like most members -- (who just blindly follow, instead of really reading and knowing the scriptures)
you still have your head in the sand, because you don't want to see the truth, much less accept it -
that the church has been corrupted, and has fallen into apostasy; just as the scriptures warned it would.
We didn't heed the warnings of the book that was given to us - The Book of Mormon - (a book of warning)
We are repeating their history -
and what happened to them -- and now, has happened to us.
So now, because of our apostasy,
we will lose the gospel - the gospel will be taken from us, and given back to The House of Israel.

The first will be last and the last, first

"At the first, the Jews (in the Book of Mormon vernacular, meaning the house of Israel) were redeemed, then they rejected God and the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. (Acts 10.) In these last days, Joseph Smith restored the gospel among the Gentiles; and when they reject it, it will be taken back to the Jews, and they will be redeemed.
Hence, the first will be last and the last, first."

(1 Ne. 13:42; Jacob 5:63; Ether 13:12; D&C 88:59; Matt. 19:30; 20:8,16.)


"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
The Lord doesn't say if, he says WHEN

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you:
At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things,
and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles SHALL NOT have POWER over you;
but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge
of the fulness of my gospel.

---------------------------------------------
3 Nephi 21
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

"The great and marvelous work - includes the restoration of the gospel, but that's just the beginning.
Most of the Lord's "great and marvelous work" of which Nephi speaks is still future. - with the entire purpose being -
to restore the Lord's ancient covenant people - The House of Israel.
And the man that shall declare it, (verse 9) is the Lord's end-time servant - the Davidic servant that
"brings forth (these great and marvelous revelations )unto the Gentiles" - being
the words of Christ (the sealed portion) (verse 11) to the church, but they don't believe it (verse 9)
and "he shall be marred because of them" (verse 10) (these words condemn the Lord's people - our church)
And because they reject these new revelations and the words of Christ and His servant,
"(it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant." (verse 11)

quote
"When the Lord's servant comes to us with the words of Christ (sealed portion)
and we reject them, and him, we will have filled the full measure of our iniquity
and the Lord will take the gospel from us, and give it back to the House of Israel.
hence "the first will be last, and last first"
And when that happens, The Times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.

So great is this challenge, in fact, that many Gentiles will not accept it.
Instead, they will reject the words of Christ, and be "cut off" as
bitter branches, from His people (3 Nephi 21:11"

We Gentiles, and also the entire World, will have two choices when the Davidic King arrives: we will either
(1) harden our hearts to our own condemnation and destruction; or else
(2) we will repent and prepare to join Zion.
There will be a complete division between the righteous and the wicked in that day."
end quote

3 Nephi 21

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

quote
"These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings.
They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them.
Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them.
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long.
But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy;
Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ."

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
another one - who doesn't know the scriptures -
and who is even blind to the signs of the times,
and blind to a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy.

It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.

EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH IS SPEAKING TO THE LORD'S END-TIME PEOPLE -
(US - OUR CORRUPT CHURCH TODAY.)

The church has completely fallen - years ago. and "have lapsed into apostasy."
The first Chapter of Isaiah verse 4 reveals that.

4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

From addressing his people personally as “Israel . . . my people” (v 3), Jehovah now addresses them impersonally as “a nation,” signifying their alienated state. Additionally, a regression occurs from his people’s simply going “astray” to their burdening themselves with “sin,” which, over time, ends in outright “wrongdoing.” That occurs collectively and generationally. The “offspring of wrongdoers” turn into “perverse children,” meaning that the rising generation has by now become thoroughly corrupt. “Forsaking” Jehovah and “spurning” him finally become conscious and deliberate acts.

The Holy One of Israel. The title of “Holy One,” together with “Valiant One” (v 24) designates Israel’s God more than thirty times in the Book of Isaiah. In this case, it contrasts Jehovah’s holiness with his people’s unholiness. Still, it points to what Jehovah’s people should become—“holy” or “sanctified,” like their God. Both titles—“Holy One” and “Valiant One”—characterize Israel’s God as his people’s exemplar. We observe this in an instance in which Jehovah exempts a righteous remnant of his people called his “holy ones” and “valiant ones” from a worldwide destruction (Isaiah 13:3).

They have lapsed into apostasy. Hebrew nazoru ahor signifies that Jehovah’s people have become entirely “estranged” from him. They have “gone backwards” to what they used to be before they became Jehovah’s covenant people, when they didn’t know their God. In effect, they have become godless again like the world’s heathen nations, but now more so because they have rejected the light they once had. The apostasy into which they began to backslide a generation ago is now complete. As a consequence, instead of enjoying the blessings of the covenant, they must suffer its curses.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
The Church isn't the literal kingdom of God on earth.
I don't know where you come up with that one.
and
1. your supposed "revelation" - is really no such thing.
2. because - the church IS in apostasy - as per Isaiah 1:4
and The Lord will use His servant - His left hand - The King of Assyria/Babylon -
to hurl to the ground (the Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) - as per Isaiah 28:2

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

Isaiah 28
2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.


The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters”
identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).


Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies
(Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—
Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground


3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5).
Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s

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Obeone
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Obeone »

Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:55 pm This scripture refers not to the Church in general, but to the gentiles within the Church. We know where the fulness goes after that and that is to the descendants of Israel, both amongst the Jews and the Lamanites, as well as to the returning Ten Tribes. They will have the charge of the Church and the surviving Gentiles will be in a supporting role.
My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
another one - who doesn't know the scriptures -
and who is even blind to the signs of the times,
and blind to a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy.

It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.

EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH IS SPEAKING TO THE LORD'S END-TIME PEOPLE -
(US - OUR CORRUPT CHURCH TODAY.)

The church has completely fallen - years ago. and "have lapsed into apostasy."
The first Chapter of Isaiah verse 4 reveals that.

4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

From addressing his people personally as “Israel . . . my people” (v 3), Jehovah now addresses them impersonally as “a nation,” signifying their alienated state. Additionally, a regression occurs from his people’s simply going “astray” to their burdening themselves with “sin,” which, over time, ends in outright “wrongdoing.” That occurs collectively and generationally. The “offspring of wrongdoers” turn into “perverse children,” meaning that the rising generation has by now become thoroughly corrupt. “Forsaking” Jehovah and “spurning” him finally become conscious and deliberate acts.

The Holy One of Israel. The title of “Holy One,” together with “Valiant One” (v 24) designates Israel’s God more than thirty times in the Book of Isaiah. In this case, it contrasts Jehovah’s holiness with his people’s unholiness. Still, it points to what Jehovah’s people should become—“holy” or “sanctified,” like their God. Both titles—“Holy One” and “Valiant One”—characterize Israel’s God as his people’s exemplar. We observe this in an instance in which Jehovah exempts a righteous remnant of his people called his “holy ones” and “valiant ones” from a worldwide destruction (Isaiah 13:3).

They have lapsed into apostasy. Hebrew nazoru ahor signifies that Jehovah’s people have become entirely “estranged” from him. They have “gone backwards” to what they used to be before they became Jehovah’s covenant people, when they didn’t know their God. In effect, they have become godless again like the world’s heathen nations, but now more so because they have rejected the light they once had. The apostasy into which they began to backslide a generation ago is now complete. As a consequence, instead of enjoying the blessings of the covenant, they must suffer its curses.
Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.
Please elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by sushi_chef »

very likely he is a pharmaceutical apostle and transhumanist, and the brethren are in the following
Image
:arrow:

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 9:05 pm

My response to people like you:

I am beginning to wonder if people who vehemently defend the Church and Brethren are doing so out of fear. It scares the he!! out of them to think that maybe there are problems. They can’t be so naïve as to not see what is going on—then again, maybe they can.

I also wonder if there is a pride factor involved. It is hard to say that “I have served the Church all of my life and I now see that things are not as I thought they were”. I have been there. If a person thinks highly of himself, it is difficult to accept what their eyes and ears have presented to them. They must defend their past by defending the Church and Brethren. It is difficult for us to accept and admit that we have been wrong.

The Corporation (Church) will not survive. Some people will survive the fall but not the Corporation.
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
another one - who doesn't know the scriptures -
and who is even blind to the signs of the times,
and blind to a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy.

It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.

EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH IS SPEAKING TO THE LORD'S END-TIME PEOPLE -
(US - OUR CORRUPT CHURCH TODAY.)

The church has completely fallen - years ago. and "have lapsed into apostasy."
The first Chapter of Isaiah verse 4 reveals that.

4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

From addressing his people personally as “Israel . . . my people” (v 3), Jehovah now addresses them impersonally as “a nation,” signifying their alienated state. Additionally, a regression occurs from his people’s simply going “astray” to their burdening themselves with “sin,” which, over time, ends in outright “wrongdoing.” That occurs collectively and generationally. The “offspring of wrongdoers” turn into “perverse children,” meaning that the rising generation has by now become thoroughly corrupt. “Forsaking” Jehovah and “spurning” him finally become conscious and deliberate acts.

The Holy One of Israel. The title of “Holy One,” together with “Valiant One” (v 24) designates Israel’s God more than thirty times in the Book of Isaiah. In this case, it contrasts Jehovah’s holiness with his people’s unholiness. Still, it points to what Jehovah’s people should become—“holy” or “sanctified,” like their God. Both titles—“Holy One” and “Valiant One”—characterize Israel’s God as his people’s exemplar. We observe this in an instance in which Jehovah exempts a righteous remnant of his people called his “holy ones” and “valiant ones” from a worldwide destruction (Isaiah 13:3).

They have lapsed into apostasy. Hebrew nazoru ahor signifies that Jehovah’s people have become entirely “estranged” from him. They have “gone backwards” to what they used to be before they became Jehovah’s covenant people, when they didn’t know their God. In effect, they have become godless again like the world’s heathen nations, but now more so because they have rejected the light they once had. The apostasy into which they began to backslide a generation ago is now complete. As a consequence, instead of enjoying the blessings of the covenant, they must suffer its curses.
Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 5:03 am
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.
Please elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?
I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet -
just like the fanatics that think that JS is returning - or actually, some think - he already has.
Last edited by Being There on September 19th, 2022, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 10:04 pm
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
Obeone wrote: September 18th, 2022, 5:13 pm
I defend the Church because I know by revelation that it is true. The Church will not be destroyed by apostasy. This is guaranteed until the earth should pass away.

This Church is the literal kingdom of God on earth. Those who imagine otherwise will feel like fools in the end.

Mark my word.

This will be my "I told you so" either in this world or the next.

It is true.
another one - who doesn't know the scriptures -
and who is even blind to the signs of the times,
and blind to a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy.

It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.

EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH IS SPEAKING TO THE LORD'S END-TIME PEOPLE -
(US - OUR CORRUPT CHURCH TODAY.)

The church has completely fallen - years ago. and "have lapsed into apostasy."
The first Chapter of Isaiah verse 4 reveals that.

4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

From addressing his people personally as “Israel . . . my people” (v 3), Jehovah now addresses them impersonally as “a nation,” signifying their alienated state. Additionally, a regression occurs from his people’s simply going “astray” to their burdening themselves with “sin,” which, over time, ends in outright “wrongdoing.” That occurs collectively and generationally. The “offspring of wrongdoers” turn into “perverse children,” meaning that the rising generation has by now become thoroughly corrupt. “Forsaking” Jehovah and “spurning” him finally become conscious and deliberate acts.

The Holy One of Israel. The title of “Holy One,” together with “Valiant One” (v 24) designates Israel’s God more than thirty times in the Book of Isaiah. In this case, it contrasts Jehovah’s holiness with his people’s unholiness. Still, it points to what Jehovah’s people should become—“holy” or “sanctified,” like their God. Both titles—“Holy One” and “Valiant One”—characterize Israel’s God as his people’s exemplar. We observe this in an instance in which Jehovah exempts a righteous remnant of his people called his “holy ones” and “valiant ones” from a worldwide destruction (Isaiah 13:3).

They have lapsed into apostasy. Hebrew nazoru ahor signifies that Jehovah’s people have become entirely “estranged” from him. They have “gone backwards” to what they used to be before they became Jehovah’s covenant people, when they didn’t know their God. In effect, they have become godless again like the world’s heathen nations, but now more so because they have rejected the light they once had. The apostasy into which they began to backslide a generation ago is now complete. As a consequence, instead of enjoying the blessings of the covenant, they must suffer its curses.
Your position is completely self-contradictory. You quote the Book of Mormon, yet accuse the Prophet through who God brought it forward as a fallen prophet! Breathtaking nonsense!
lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
and as I commented before to someone - when they said *****


are you totally blind ? and just blindly follow.
can't you even see what a evil scam all this is, and see what's really been going on ?
Have you ever heard of the word "APOSTASY"
do you even read the scriptures at all ! and the prophecies being fulfilled right before your eyes ?

*****
You can't have it both ways either. Either this is the true church and was restored by Joseph Smith or it isn't. If it is the true church that means we have a true apostles on the earth.
just because something the Lord started starts out good, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

Men - leaders of the church over the years have corrupted it and brought it to where it is now - in full apostasy.
We are no longer the peculiar people we once were.
Over the years we have become Good Global Citizens, and have joined and become a part of
all the evils of the World - Babylon, and serve, not Christ, but it's leaders.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 7:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 19th, 2022, 5:03 am
Being There wrote: September 18th, 2022, 8:17 pm
It WAS - the Lord's church - until it was polluted and corrupted by men - (starting with Joseph Smith)
and fell into apostasy - just as Isaiah 1:4 says.
Please elaborate on this. How did it begin with Joseph?
I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.
Oh, come on. You can’t just let that one hang out there.

And btw, there are plenty of us who don’t “idolize” Joseph. He was mortal. He made mistakes. But to make the claim that you are requires a bit of explaining.
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