Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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Obeone
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Obeone »

HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.

Mamabear
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Mamabear »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
Wo to them who say all is well in Zion.
The church of the Lamb is in the wilderness, and it has no building. All churches built to get gain are corrupt and will be destroyed. But the gospel is true.

Stay true to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and it will be well with you. Those who do not hear his voice have no promise.

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear.

Fixed it for you.

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
This statement is not only non-scriptural but it will be the downfall of the church.

I think it's kind of ironic, Peter jumped out of a boat, Joseph had dreams of a boat sinking and another about a boat burning. Both very appropriate descriptions of what the "great ship" is doing right now.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
the LDS church isn't true -
the gospel of Jesus Christ is true;
and the LDS church is no longer following Christ's gospel but the things of the World,
THEREFORE - the LDS church is not true.

maybe you need to understand what the word "church" means
and how the Lord uses it.

do I have to go to any church ?

quote
"The Lord restored His church, but what is His church ?


D&C 10
67
Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me,
but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end,
him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

now where have I heard that before - "rock" "and upon this rock I will build my church"
Matthew 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood
hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church;

and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


* "every time "church" is mentioned in the New Testament,
it refers only to the people who believe in Christ"

so the Lord is saying,
WHOEVER repents, and comes to Him IS His church, (ANYONE)
and He will build His church, with those that come to Him, the way how it was revealed to Peter that He was the Christ -
that is - through the rock of revelation - His spirit - the Holy Ghost.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
you're no different than all the other church employees -
that have come on this forum - trying to justify -
a church that has become corrupt and fallen into apostasy -
(like the scriptures warned and predicted the LDS Gentile church would)
and it's leaders (The Drunkards of Ephraim) - who follow not the Lord, but serve and bow down to
and follow the World and it's leaders - who serve the King of this World - satan.

As all the others - you try to justify - saying -
"Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
BUT the Church is true."
trying to make it look not so bad - like - yes - "all is not well in the church" - BUT BUT BUT BUT.......
BUT NOTHING !
THERE IS NO BUT"S !

The truth is -
yes, "The church WAS true - long long ago,
but fell into apostasy - as the scriptures warned and predicted we would.

There has been NO REVELATION, and The Lord hasn't had anything to do with the church
for over a 100 years !

and it's NOT the Lord's church anymore.
He would be offended - calling such a organization - His church.

It's more a corrupt Worldly organization - with ties and investments in Babylon
with those that control it with their evil plans.

The church is really a corporate conglomerate -
"The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter - day Saints.
"The Mormon church is actually a corporate conglomerate.
Behind the religious front are dozens of companies earning hundreds of millions of dollars a year." .
Last edited by Being There on September 17th, 2022, 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 11th, 2022, 11:59 pm
Being There wrote: September 11th, 2022, 5:16 pm evidence ! ? lol.
If I were you, I'd pay more attention to what spirit it is that you're listening to.

and you sure do have a big imagination - cause nothing you're saying -
about the church and Zion is true or in the scriptures.

The Lord will use His servant - His left hand - The King of Assyria/Babylon -
to hurl to the ground (the Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders)

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

Isaiah 28
2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.


The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters”
identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).


Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies
(Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—
Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground


3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5).
Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s
You are making no sense. And since you are talking about "drunkards" you sure sound like one to me.

That is my honest observation.
* from what we've heard from you, and from the church,
I think Isaiah describes you and the LDS church leaders perfectly - "The Drunkards of Ephraim"

Isaiah 29

9 Procrastinate, and become bewildered;
preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help.
Be drunk, but not with wine;
stagger, but not from strong drink.
10 Jehovah has poured out on you
a spirit of deep sleep:
he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers.



Jehovah’s people who are here addressed are chronically delusional
to the point of slumbering in a deep sleep.
Having procrastinated the day of their salvation by buying into dreamlike deceptions and fantasies, they grow “bewildered” and “cry for help” when Jehovah’s judgments come upon them.
As a people’s leaders generally reflect the people themselves, so all are spiritually “drunk” and “stagger”
instead of walking straight.
The prophets and seers—the people’s “eyes” and “heads”—can’t awaken them to spiritual realities because they themselves are intoxicated and asleep
(Isaiah 28:7; 56:9-12).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28:7 talks about priests and prophets.

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink;
they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies.
Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).

Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.


As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another.
Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach
(Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

A kind of delusion sets in among ecclesiastical leader as the people subscribe to the new narrative that merely perpetuates the status quo:
“These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions. For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement. Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation? Weanlings weaned from milk, those just taken from the breast? For it is but line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept; a trifle here, a trifle there” (Isaiah 28:7–10);

“Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber. Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.

They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage. ‘Come, [they say,]let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!’” (Isaiah 56:10–12).

When a spirit of self-sufficiency follows the people’s prosperity, spiritual standards grow lax and predatory practices prevail:
“How the faithful city has become a harlot! She was filled with justice; righteousness made its abode in her,
but now murderers.

Your silver has become dross, your wine diluted with water. Your rulers are renegades, accomplices of robbers: with one accord they love bribes and run after rewards; they do not dispense justice to the fatherless, nor does the widow’s case come before them” (Isaiah 1:21–23);
“The godless utter blasphemy; their heart ponders impiety: how to practice hypocrisy and preach perverse things concerning Jehovah, leaving the hungry soul empty, depriving the thirsty [soul]of drink. And rogues scheme by malevolent means and insidious devices to ruin the poor, and with false slogans and accusations to denounce the needy” (Isaiah 32:6–7).


The prophets in the Book of Mormon are speaking to us and have tried to warn us
but we - as a church have not heeded the warnings, and most members are being led away by -
"those wolves in sheep's clothing that would harm His sheep" (church leaders) dumb watch dogs)
Watchmen that don't watch but are asleep. Isaiah 56, 29
"Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches,
they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest"


Isaiah 56
*** 8 Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: I will gather others to those already gathered.
9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest, come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs
unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber.


Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,”

********** Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen:
“Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls,
O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).


As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6).
Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink.
Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

*** from verse 8
A hard fact of Isaiah’s end-time scenario is that it is not those who appear to be God’s people (the church)
whom God saves in the end, but those who are rejected by the majority.
These “outcasts” suffer “reproach” and “ridicule,” are “excluded” from God’s people, and, like God’s servant who gathers them, are “despised” and “abhorred” until God reverses their circumstances (Isaiah 49:7–8; 51:7; 60:15–16; 61:7, 9; 66:5–8).
In the end, those who are excluded and betrayed by their own people, are gathered with God’s righteous remnant: “Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: ‘I will gather others to those already gathered’”
(Isaiah 56:3, 8).


from above
**********
“Proclaim it aloud without restraint; raise your voice like a trumpet!
Declare to my people their transgressions, to the house of Jacob its sins”

(Isaiah 58:1).

"“watchmen” who prophesy in the day of power, when God “bares his holy arm in the eyes of all nations” (Isaiah 51:9–11; 52:8, 10). They stand on the watchtower day and night, are “most vigilant” and “fully alert” to approaching dangers, and report what they “see” and “hear” (Isaiah 21:6–10). They herald Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth and prepare God’s people for their end-time exodus out of Babylon to Zion (Isaiah 52:7–8, 11–12; compare 48:20–21). They “raise their voice as one” at the time Jehovah comes (Isaiah 52:8).
They call upon God without ceasing for the welfare of his people and don’t keep silent day or night (Isaiah 62:6–7)."
Last edited by Being There on September 17th, 2022, 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure...

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Joan7 »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
Let's start with your statement, "the Church is true." Do you understand there is a difference between the Gospel, restored by Joseph Smith, and the institution that is administering it. So, I think it offends God, to say such a thing. He want us to acknowledge the truth of the Gospel brought by His son, who laid down His life. In all of history, the Gospel of Christ has not changed. What has changed are the church institutions. The church institution was so corrupt when Jesus lived, that they put Him to death. The church institution was so corrupt when Joan of Arc came on the scene, that they burned her at the stake. And, it goes on and on. Over and over the church institution becomes corrupt. We saw this in the end of the Nephite civilization, and the Jaredites. Does that mean the Gospel of Christ wasn't true? No, it meant that the Church institution had strayed from God's laws, just as King Benjamin found.

Now, there is a Church administration philosophy which posits that "the Prophet will not lead the Church astray." So, why did he allow all the other Churches to be led astray? It is the free agency of the Church leader, and the free agency of the people, that He would not force.

I know that there is a late addition to the Doctrine and Covenants, an appendix, that states the Prophet will not lead you astray. And it is popularized, in our day, because of Ezra Taft Benson's "Fourteen Fundamentals of Following the Prophet." But, shall we go to the source of the restoration? For Joseph Smith gave us the key information on this particular subject in his Joseph Smith Translation. Will you believe it? The words of a man who talked with God face to face?
Mark 9 JST
Jesus compares cutting off an offending hand or foot to discontinuing associations that may lead one astray.

40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee and confess not and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into hell.

41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.

43 It is better for thee, to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell; into the fire that never shall be quenched.

44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.

45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.

46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.

47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
First, please notice that in the heading, it mentions "hand" and "foot" but the "eye" is not mentioned. Why not? Let us look at that verse:
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
The eye that seeth for thee, and
is appointed to watch over thee, and
show thee light...
That is speaking of none other than the Prophet, or President of the Church of Jesus Christ.

In verse 42, we see the verification, in Joseph's translation:
And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.

Russell M Nelson is supposed to be the standard, by whom we walk. He can be a transgressor, and God tells us that we may be careful to not be led carefully down to hell.

Carefully down to hell, is asking the "particular people" of the Lord to go into Babylon and willingly have something placed into your body, while knowing that all the leaders in all the world are encouraging the exact same thing. There is a warning in Revelation about that. And, it leads to "no man can buy or sell..." Who's yoke are you wearing?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 9?lang=eng

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HereWeGo
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by HereWeGo »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?

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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am
HereWeGo wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:25 pm My suggestion for the "All is well in Zion/The Church is True" crowd is to put your feet up, smile, ignore anyone trying to wake you up, stay in the boat and just enjoy the cruise as you head into the port of the Celestial Kingdom. :)
Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.

Mamabear
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Mamabear »

HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
Why was “President” added in 2019?

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Mamabear wrote: September 17th, 2022, 2:13 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
Why was “President” added in 2019?
As Johnny would say:

"I-did-not-know-that"

It's difficult to write it in a way that reflects how he said it. Carson was a cool kat.

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Obeone
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Obeone »

HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
Which one qualifies as a 501c3? Legally, you have to be a church in order to be granted 501c3 status, right?
Last edited by InfoWarrior82 on September 17th, 2022, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mamabear
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Mamabear »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
Oh really? So a person is a corporation?

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
The government and the IRS would differ with you on that subject. You are technically correct in a sense, but the members of the corporation are the members of the church. The body of the corporation is the body of the church.

Lizzy60
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Lizzy60 »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:23 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
The government and the IRS would differ with you on that subject. You are technically correct in a sense, but the members of the corporation are the members of the church. The body of the corporation is the body of the church.
The Corporation is a Sole Corporation, owned solely by the President of the church. We are not members, or stockholders or anything else. The Corporation has trademarked the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” to use as the church arm of the Corporation, just as they have trademarked “Ensign Peak Advisors” to use as the investment arm of the Corp. There are literally dozens of “businesses” that are part of the Corporation.
Last edited by Lizzy60 on September 17th, 2022, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Mamabear wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:22 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
Oh really? So a person is a corporation?
It's an interesting combination of the wording. A name of a corporation doesn't imply liability nor imbue power to any individual at all. I could name a corporation , "Corporation of Billy Bob wizzle sticks" and no one by that name even needs to be in the corporate structure. It's just a choice of gobbled words that can be completely imaginary.

What does matter is the wording in the charter and bylaws which would be very interesting to read. Due to the name of the Corp, I would guess that the President is given great power in the organization.

So no, a Corporation is never a person at all and can't be except to identify the corporation from another. It's a shell used for liability protection and tax purposes which completely insulates any individual.

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Lizzy60 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:32 pm
FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:23 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm

The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
The government and the IRS would differ with you on that subject. You are technically correct in a sense, but the members of the corporation are the members of the church. The body of the corporation is the body of the church.
The Corporation is a Sole Corporation, owned solely by the President of the church. We are not members, or stockholders or anything else. The Corporation has trademarked the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” to use as the church arm of the Corporation, just as they have trademarked “Ensign Peak Investments” to use as the investment arm of the Corp. There are literally dozens of “businesses” that are part of the Corporation.
I would enjoy researching your reference for the fact set forth above which states "owned solely by the President of the church". Thanks.

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Jason
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am

Not all is well in Zion. Zion is under condemnation and is in the wilderness.
But the Church is true.
Zion is scattered for the moment, but is not dead.

Stay in the ship Zion and listen to the Spirit and it will be well with you.
But those who forsake ship Zion have no promise.

They who have ears to hear, let them hear.
We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???

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FrankOne
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Posts: 2829

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 8:40 am

We're currently living amidst the "awful situation" Moroni wrote about. And that awful situation is more awful than you know. The secret combinations have gotten above us. The church must be cleansed and the destructions will start upon His House. The gospel will be taken from the gentile church (LDS) and given to another to build up literal Zion with a literal central city. Only until another actual prophet sets His church in order and begins again the gathering, will we start seeing the power of the priesthood as it was meant to be when it was restored again.
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
perhaps this will help:

3 Nephi 16:10 - The words of Christ:

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

Joan7
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Joan7 »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 4:10 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:28 am
...now that's a twist on the scriptures....

...sifting is in full process though for sure.
Everything I said is plainly written in the scriptures.
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
perhaps this will help:

3 Nephi 16:10 - The words of Christ:

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
And it becomes "The Church of the Firstborn."

Doctrine and Covenants 76
50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—

51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

60 And they shall overcome all things.

61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.

62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.

64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.

65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.

67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.

68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.

69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.


The process of becoming part of the Church of the Firstborn begins in the tribulations. Those that will heed the Davidic Servant will be part of a new exodus, in a type and shadow of the past. Isaiah speaks a lot about this. We also know the prophecies that the Lord will gather out His wheat, while allowing the tares to be burned. The tares are those who called themselves members of the Church, too. Remember the parable of the 10 sleeping women. When they awoke to the call that the Master comes, only 5 were ready.

Apply the scriptures to our lives, and a whole new understanding begins to open up.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:53 pm
Where does it say the gospel will be taken from the gentile church???
As noted earlier 3 Nephi 16:10-11 is a starter. We are included as part of the Gentile nation. The Lord then states in verse 11 that the fullness of the gospel will be taken and given to another. This same pattern/prophecy is repeated by Moroni in Ether 12. He begin by lamenting his weakness in writing, and how the gentile who receive the BoM will judge his words. Then we get to these verses:

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.
36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.
37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

The “talent” is the fullness of the gospel. The same thing that Christ states in 3 Nephi 16:10.

We can go even further and add the condemnation from D&C 84:

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

If you do a deep study of the doctrines and principles of the BoM, you’ll quickly realize it is one of the greatest books that condemns the LDS church. The LDS church does not teach much of the doctrine found in the BoM. In fact, many of the presidents of the church have taught ideologies that are completely contrary to what is taught in the BoM. Nelson himself being one of the most blatant offenders. Even Benson had some doozies.
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on September 17th, 2022, 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HVDC
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by HVDC »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:23 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:01 pm
HereWeGo wrote: September 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
Obeone wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:57 am But the Church is true.
The Church is a corporation: CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

The incorporation papers designate who the next prophet will be--the next senior apostle.

How can a corporation be true?
It says corporation OF the president. So the Church is not the corporation.
The government and the IRS would differ with you on that subject. You are technically correct in a sense, but the members of the corporation are the members of the church. The body of the corporation is the body of the church.
I understand this particular legal arrangement only recognizes President Nelson as the sole member of the church.

The rest of us are not shareholders, I.e. members.

Sir H

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