Who was the last conservative church president?
-
- captain of 10
- Posts: 14
- ransomme
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4014
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Benson was for sure I don't know enough about Hunter, and Hinkley is iffy.
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10861
- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Even conservative, anti communist, Benson led the church astray with his "14 Fundamentals of a prophet" talk. Even Benson could not prophesy, see, or reveal.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8240
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Hunter did give this gem of a talk on "The Law of the Harvest" >>
I am very much grateful for all the liberty messages given by Ezra Taft Benson, while acknowledging he wasn't perfect. Benson is one that I venerate for his influence on my path of truth seeking.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8240
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
The more I've looked into the history of the Church, especially the things that happened with Pres. Heber J. Grant an onward, the more I think Ezra Taft Benson was an anomaly. I don't think the other Church leaders ever expected Benson to say much of what he said about freedom.
I started noticing a trend once when I read through all of the quotes I had added to my website. In the 1800's the Church was very outspoken against the corruption of the United States and in favor of the Constitution and principles of freedom. By the time Utah became a State, and especially under Heber J. Grant, the message shifted to being loyal to the United States, patriotic and loyal. And there was also a time of warning about foreign enemies such as communism.
So, back to ETB being an anomaly. He didn't seem to be quite as awake to the principles of freedom when he was first called as an Apostle.
From Wikipedia: In 1946, the First Presidency sent Benson to Europe to oversee the church's relief efforts after World War II.. Recalling this experience, he wrote to his wife, "I'm so grateful you and the children can be spared the views of the terrible ravages of war. I fear I'll never be able to erase them from my memory." Apostle Gordon B. Hinckley noted of Benson's experience in Europe, "I am confident that it was out of what he saw of the bitter fruit of dictatorship that he developed his strong feelings, almost hatred, for communism and socialism."
That time in Europe seemed to be a turning point for Benson becoming more awake. It seems that H. Verlan Andersen was also influential in helping Benson wake up. Andersen contributed to writing some of Benson's talks, such as "The Proper Role of Government". When Benson got called as President of the Church, his first opportunity to call a new Apostle was H. Verlan Andersen. However, the Twelve opposed that calling and they called Richard G. Scott instead, and H. Verlan Andersen was called as a Seventy rather than an Apostle.
I started noticing a trend once when I read through all of the quotes I had added to my website. In the 1800's the Church was very outspoken against the corruption of the United States and in favor of the Constitution and principles of freedom. By the time Utah became a State, and especially under Heber J. Grant, the message shifted to being loyal to the United States, patriotic and loyal. And there was also a time of warning about foreign enemies such as communism.
So, back to ETB being an anomaly. He didn't seem to be quite as awake to the principles of freedom when he was first called as an Apostle.
From Wikipedia: In 1946, the First Presidency sent Benson to Europe to oversee the church's relief efforts after World War II.. Recalling this experience, he wrote to his wife, "I'm so grateful you and the children can be spared the views of the terrible ravages of war. I fear I'll never be able to erase them from my memory." Apostle Gordon B. Hinckley noted of Benson's experience in Europe, "I am confident that it was out of what he saw of the bitter fruit of dictatorship that he developed his strong feelings, almost hatred, for communism and socialism."
That time in Europe seemed to be a turning point for Benson becoming more awake. It seems that H. Verlan Andersen was also influential in helping Benson wake up. Andersen contributed to writing some of Benson's talks, such as "The Proper Role of Government". When Benson got called as President of the Church, his first opportunity to call a new Apostle was H. Verlan Andersen. However, the Twelve opposed that calling and they called Richard G. Scott instead, and H. Verlan Andersen was called as a Seventy rather than an Apostle.
- Original_Intent
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13008
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Answer 1: ETB
Answer 2: Political labels mean such different things to different people as to render them meaningless. Examples: Conservative, liberal, neoconservative, neoliberal, fascist, nazi, progressive, socialist, communist, and the list could go on. There are correct definitions for those words, but like Humpty-Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland said, words mean what (we) want them to mean - each person has an internal definition of a word and they stick by their definition even when they are wrong.
Answer 2: Political labels mean such different things to different people as to render them meaningless. Examples: Conservative, liberal, neoconservative, neoliberal, fascist, nazi, progressive, socialist, communist, and the list could go on. There are correct definitions for those words, but like Humpty-Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland said, words mean what (we) want them to mean - each person has an internal definition of a word and they stick by their definition even when they are wrong.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13999
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
The other question that has to be asked is whether ETB's anti-Communism was born out of the Cold War, i.e. the official struggle of America and its allies against Communism... or was it something deeper?
Or put it another way – was he following an official line like Nelson is today, or ploughing his own furrow? I can see signs of both.
Or put it another way – was he following an official line like Nelson is today, or ploughing his own furrow? I can see signs of both.
- Original_Intent
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13008
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Having read "An Enemy Hath Done This" I'd be inclined to believe the latter.Niemand wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 2:31 pm The other question that has to be asked is whether ETB's anti-Communism was born out of the Cold War, i.e. the official struggle of America and its allies against Communism... or was it something deeper?
Or put it another way – was he following an official line like Nelson is today, or ploughing his own furrow? I can see signs of both.
I think he and J. Reuben Clark would have gotten along famously, but to my understanding most of the 12 were not fans of ETB's positions, or that he spoke out about them.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
At least Benson quit preaching “Follow the Prophet” when he became President of the Church, probably due to his realisation at that point that the Church President didn’t have the magic powers which he thought that office carried.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 9:31 am Even conservative, anti communist, Benson led the church astray with his "14 Fundamentals of a prophet" talk. Even Benson could not prophesy, see, or reveal.
- Subcomandante
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4411
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
I would say Hinckley.
That does not mean by default that Nelson or Monson are flaming bleeding heart liberals, though many on this board assume that is the case.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13999
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning on this with Hinckley. Hinckley was definitely to the left of Benson (who was sadly senile by the end), but he was also the president who released the Family Proclamation. I think it was a big tactical error not to have it put in with the D&CSubcomandante wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 4:10 pmI would say Hinckley.
That does not mean by default that Nelson or Monson are flaming bleeding heart liberals, though many on this board assume that is the case.
I don't think Nelson is a conservative. Within the context of the LDS, he is something of a wouldbe revolutionary, changing things for the sake of it. Politically he seems to run with the herd.
- Subcomandante
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4411
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
I definitely would NOT class Nelson as a conservative. Moderate seems like a fair classification.Niemand wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 4:29 pmI'd be interested to hear your reasoning on this with Hinckley. Hinckley was definitely to the left of Benson (who was sadly senile by the end), but he was also the president who released the Family Proclamation. I think it was a big tactical error not to have it put in with the D&CSubcomandante wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 4:10 pmI would say Hinckley.
That does not mean by default that Nelson or Monson are flaming bleeding heart liberals, though many on this board assume that is the case.
I don't think Nelson is a conservative. Within the context of the LDS, he is something of a wouldbe revolutionary, changing things for the sake of it. Politically he seems to run with the herd.
Of the current 15, Oaks and Christoffersen are the most conservative (though nowhere near Benson conservative, just slightly right of Nelson) and Uchtdorf and Gong are the most liberal (perhaps the most liberal since Hugh B. Brown).
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10861
- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Luke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:48 pmAt least Benson quit preaching “Follow the Prophet” when he became President of the Church, probably due to his realisation at that point that the Church President didn’t have the magic powers which he thought that office carried.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 9:31 am Even conservative, anti communist, Benson led the church astray with his "14 Fundamentals of a prophet" talk. Even Benson could not prophesy, see, or reveal.
He certainly DID realize it. Which is why he gave that 14 fundamentals talk to try and explain it away.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13999
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
I don't really buy into the idea of liberal vs conservative as a binary paradigm. (Socialists etc are not part of that and many so called "liberals" in the USA are in fact socialist or social democrat etc.)Subcomandante wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 5:11 pmI definitely would NOT class Nelson as a conservative. Moderate seems like a fair classification.Niemand wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 4:29 pmI'd be interested to hear your reasoning on this with Hinckley. Hinckley was definitely to the left of Benson (who was sadly senile by the end), but he was also the president who released the Family Proclamation. I think it was a big tactical error not to have it put in with the D&CSubcomandante wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 4:10 pmI would say Hinckley.
That does not mean by default that Nelson or Monson are flaming bleeding heart liberals, though many on this board assume that is the case.
I don't think Nelson is a conservative. Within the context of the LDS, he is something of a wouldbe revolutionary, changing things for the sake of it. Politically he seems to run with the herd.
Of the current 15, Oaks and Christoffersen are the most conservative (though nowhere near Benson conservative, just slightly right of Nelson) and Uchtdorf and Gong are the most liberal (perhaps the most liberal since Hugh B. Brown).
Nelson is not conservative within the church structure as he is destroying many of our traditions, from the name Mormon to the physical structure of old temples. Outside the church system, he seems to follow the world fairly unflinchingly - there is a move towards turning the church into the wrong sort of Protestantism, yet while fawning to the Pope, and he seems to be following WEF policies in some areas. As for the matter of gays, the church has sent out many conflicting messages about the matter in recent years.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8240
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Oaks is maybe just seen as a conservative because he masquerades as one. His communist background is obvious once you closely analyze his talks.Subcomandante wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 5:11 pmOf the current 15, Oaks and Christoffersen are the most conservative (though nowhere near Benson conservative, just slightly right of Nelson) and Uchtdorf and Gong are the most liberal (perhaps the most liberal since Hugh B. Brown).
And I'm not making up the part about the "communist background", it's based on some evidence.
- Durzan
- The Lord's Trusty Maverick
- Posts: 3728
- Location: Standing between the Light and the Darkness.
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
For some reason, I loved and latched onto President Monson. I always liked him as a kid and always paid just a little more attention to him than the rest. Never felt the same way about President Nelson, though there were times he seemed to grab my attention. I will say that a part of me has felt there was something off since he became president, and several times that he did something that made my eyebrows raise…
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13999
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
As I've said elsewhere, I never thought I would say it but I have become nostalgic for the Monson presidency of a few years ago. It may have had massive problems of its own but it seemed much better than this mess. I think the warning sign was when Nelson started renaming everything when it wasn't needed.Durzan wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 3:33 pm For some reason, I loved and latched onto President Monson. I always liked him as a kid and always paid just a little more attention to him than the rest. Never felt the same way about President Nelson, though there were times he seemed to grab my attention. I will say that a part of me has felt there was something off since he became president, and several times that he did something that made my eyebrows raise…
- marc
- Disciple of Jesus Christ
- Posts: 10354
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
If you are referring to conservative political policies, I would say Ezra Taft Benson.
- stormcloak
- captain of 100
- Posts: 373
- Location: Windhelm
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Where does this report that you linked to come from? Is it part of a larger book or document? Could you give its title?creator wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 9:52 am And I'm not making up the part about the "communist background", it's based on some evidence.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8240
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
- ransomme
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4014
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Nelson is a people pleaser. I don't think that he has a political backbone. He has come out several times preaching truth, but then walks it back when it is perceived as being too disagreeable with the world.
Oaks is Nelson's Dick Cheney.
Eyring is his Joe Biden.
Oaks is Nelson's Dick Cheney.
Eyring is his Joe Biden.
- dreamtheater76
- captain of 100
- Posts: 912
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Conservative or Constitutional Conservative?
Lot’s of people consider themselves Conservative. I have distanced myself from the term since the Bush dynasty. Constitutionalist or Constitutional Conservative I am much more comfortable with being associated as.
I would say Benson leaned in the Constitutional Conservative direction. I love his talks and writings and he is a large influence on me as well as W. Cleon Skousen, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson.
Most after him are much more moderate or what the media defines as Conservative. I feel they were much more gullible to whatever the official narrative is of the day.
Lot’s of people consider themselves Conservative. I have distanced myself from the term since the Bush dynasty. Constitutionalist or Constitutional Conservative I am much more comfortable with being associated as.
I would say Benson leaned in the Constitutional Conservative direction. I love his talks and writings and he is a large influence on me as well as W. Cleon Skousen, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson.
Most after him are much more moderate or what the media defines as Conservative. I feel they were much more gullible to whatever the official narrative is of the day.
- madvin
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1114
- Location: Stillwater OK
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
But you did get it from somewhere. I looked at Mormon Chronicles, but no dice. But under "rare documents" they only had a preview, one of which was that document (just the first half of the first page).
Last edited by madvin on September 14th, 2022, 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8240
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
Re: Who was the last conservative church president?
Yes I got if from "Mormon Chronicle" but they don't have any additional info either.
The data in the document is not very difficult for someone to validate.