Doctrinal commitment to college education

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Subcomandante
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by Subcomandante »

cwass wrote: September 13th, 2022, 5:31 pm
Subcomandante wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:38 pm
cwass wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:31 pm Don't think a college degree will help anyone be saved.
No, but your capacities to save others could be greatly affected for good.

Though I will be the first to admit that college is not the one-off panacea. Lots of people opt for certifications, trade schools, and technical schools. The idea is to get to a position where you will be in a better area to help others.
Agree to a point. Do the people wanting an education or more money ever get to the point of helping others due to their education or money?

In a conversation with one of the youth in our branch on Sunday he talked about what he wanted to be when he "grew up". He wanted to make good money in order to help others and travel the world.

Education can be great....just as long as it is helping you come to the knowledge of the truth.
As the prophet Jacob said, it is wise to be instructed, as long as you give heed to the word of God, and be wise, what more could [he] say?

Foregoing ANY type of education in this day and age is not being wise. Some will choose college. Others will choose trades. Others still, apprenticeships, bootcamps, and certifications. The truly smart ones will choose careers that are relatively easy to get with a high market value.

randyps
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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at 18 I dropped out of college my first semester, had nothing else going for me so decided to go on a mission.
Came back and started working entry level computer support...got married....enjoyed the tech industry enough to want it as my career. I obtained numerous self-study certifications in order to qualify for higher level positions to where I am now as a Network Administrator going on 18yrs. Im able to pay the bills as a single income earner (wife is a stay at home mother)

..but in order to get ahead we needed a second income, so I researched and started a solo window cleaning business part-time on my days off. Learned the skill by watching youtube videos and lots of trial and error. This endeavor makes twice as much per hour then my regular full-time job, less hours though because its only 3 days a week.

In 2019 I realized that there were many accredited colleges that offer 100% online degrees, it was cheap enough, I was mature enough to want to study so I got my Bachelors in I.T. Why? I dont know, it has no affect on my current situation. I did it just to say that I did. It is literally useless, that is until the day I need to look for another job which I highly doubt.

I have 3 points...

1. The OP is seriously a hater of the church and will skew any article to bash the church. The church is clearly pushing education as a general term. College is probably only referenced because its the most common route.

2. I am a born and raised Mormon, I was "brainwashed" (as the haters like the OP would say) my entire life to seek higher education. When college didnt work for me at 18 I had enough common sense to know that higher education was anything after high school, so this "brainwashed" mormon boy found alternatives. I wish the OP had more common sense and less bias when reading church material.

3. My life and that of my wife and kids have been blessed because of the direction/motivation and confidence God has given me via great leaders of our church. In my patriarchal blessing the Lord said I will always be able to provide for my family and secure the common comforts of life. I might be inactive right now but my faith in his gospel and prophets has never stopped.

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Luke
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by Luke »

Subcomandante wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:12 pm
Mamabear wrote: September 13th, 2022, 2:54 pm “Elder Cook noted that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have a doctrinal commitment to education. Studies indicate that a high percentage of active Latter-day Saints have completed four or more years of college — among the highest of all religions.“👏👏👏
What the? A doctrinal commitment to education? Cuz the scriptures mention how important it is.
Now be proud of being brainwashed at woke universities like byu!

“Latter-day Saint doctrine emphasizes the role of intelligence and the importance of education and knowledge, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 93:

1. Truth is independent — it “is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come” (verse 24).

2. “The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth” (verse 36).

3. Exercising our agency to receive “truth and light” is essential (verse 28).”

I don’t think 93 is talking about college or EDUCATION.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ation-week
No one can be saved in ignorance.
The context of that quote is referring to the Second Anointing. Joseph is contrasting knowledge with ignorance (i.e. knowing that you are sealed up to salvation vs not knowing).

No-one here is saying “don’t get knowledge”. People are pointing out that Cook’s statement about how the education of the world constitutes godly knowledge is clearly total nonsense.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Telling everyone to go to college if they want a good salary job simply made the bachelor's degree obsolete and caused a lot of people working low-paying jobs in unrelated fields shackled with student loan debt. I'm a non-traditional college student (went back in my 30s) because what I want to do absolutely requires college but if you are unsure of what you want to do, I would be very hesitant about college. It was a huge grift that got secular institutions super rich.


Going to college "just cuz", is one of the laziest and dumbest things a person can do. The bachelor's degree is meaningless now. And a lot of master's degrees are now as well. I have a super-part-time "side gig" job that I do and through that I know a liberal girl who got some super niche master's degree from BYU through it. She's working a non-salary level job at a library and a part-time job. There's no way she's making that much money. Has she truly benefited from the costs it took to get a master's degree from such a "special" college? It wasn't even some generic master's degree she got (like an MBA). It was a highly focused/niche one.

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Thinker
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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Subcomandante wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:38 pm
cwass wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:31 pm Don't think a college degree will help anyone be saved.
No, but your capacities to save others could be greatly affected for good.

Though I will be the first to admit that college is not the one-off panacea. Lots of people opt for certifications, trade schools, and technical schools. The idea is to get to a position where you will be in a better area to help others.
I agree & well put. What matters most in the big picture is how well we love - the more we are aware, the better we tend to love. Generally I support formal education, though I wouldn’t support my kids going to lds schools - not now.

Although tempting, being a hermit is probably not what God intended. For myself & my kids - I encourage all types of education, even knowing that some curriculum &/or teachers are going to teach BS. I’m trying to teach my kids to think critically (spot cognitive distortions etc) so they are able to live in the world without being too tainted by it.

Now days with the www, there really is no excuse to not be, as Silverado suggested, a autodidact (self-taught person).

Seek - I mean hunger and thirst - after truth & righteousness wherever it’s found! This includes taking the initiative to explore the incredibly vast kingdom of God within!

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Thinker
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by Thinker »

Luke wrote: September 14th, 2022, 6:40 am
Subcomandante wrote: September 13th, 2022, 4:12 pmNo one can be saved in ignorance.
The context of that quote is referring to the Second Anointing. Joseph is contrasting knowledge with ignorance (i.e. knowing that you are sealed up to salvation vs not knowing).

No-one here is saying “don’t get knowledge”. People are pointing out that Cook’s statement about how the education of the world constitutes godly knowledge is clearly total nonsense.
I imagine there are multiple ways to interpret,
”No one can be saved in ignorance.”

How I see it: What do we need to be saved from? Being lost - & consequences of missing the mark (which can suck for us & others). ANY knowledge that helps us understand where we are & where we’ve been so we can better go towards where we really want - is good. Ignor-ance is to ignore important things like how you may have hurt yourself or others or disrespected God/truth. Loving well means understanding well. The opposite of love is not hate (frustrated love) but the opposite of caring is not caring - apathy/ignor-ance.

Also, the mind, like the body, needs regular exercise - to be its best. Teachers (like fitness coaches) tend to push us in that way, more than we would push ourselves.

One thing is critical in navigating this world - with or without formal education: BS detectors. But it seems that comes most profoundly from the sting of being duped. Few want to even consider they’ve been duped because they sense that painful sting. The duping is more extensive than anyone wants to fathom.

Pathway2DaCross
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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Higher education = higher paying jobs = higher paying tithing = bigger stipend (pay) to the Q15 and others.

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Niemand
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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I think people should take this case by case. It depends on the course. If you're going to do something like computing or architecture, a course is probably a good idea.

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madvin
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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SempiternalHarbinger wrote: September 13th, 2022, 7:21 pm


I have mixed emotions whenever the leaders compare knowledge with corrupt and polluted public education. Sometimes I can't help but laugh and other times I want to weep. In the end, it's silly and wrong to make such a comparison. For the seeker of knowledge, CES and BYU are one of the worst places you could go. Little to no truth is to be found there. But if you love them robes of the false priesthood it is the perfect place for your children's minds to be swallowed up by a dark, invisible, fictitious black hole.

Leaders and Managers by Hugh Nibley
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/hugh-nib ... -managers/
Hugh Nibley hates the accolades . I loved the way he was standing there waiting for Holland to finish...

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inho
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by inho »

Mamabear wrote: September 13th, 2022, 2:54 pm A doctrinal commitment to education? Cuz the scriptures mention how important it is.
D&C 88
78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms
D&C 88

118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.
D&C 90

13 ... you shall from thenceforth preside over the affairs of the church and the school;
...
15 And set in order the churches, and study and learn, and become acquainted with all good books, and with languages, tongues, and people.
D&C 93

53 And, verily I say unto you, that it is my will that you should hasten to translate my scriptures, and to obtain a knowledge of history, and of countries, and of kingdoms, of laws of God and man, and all this for the salvation of Zion. Amen.

762X545
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by 762X545 »

There is a huuuuuge difference between being educated and being intelligent.

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tmac
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by tmac »

As one of my sage friends often tells young people: "Don't let school get in the way of your education."

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Niemand
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

Post by Niemand »

tmac wrote: September 14th, 2022, 8:42 pm As one of my sage friends often tells young people: "Don't let school get in the way of your education."
That goes back to Mark Twain if not earlier.

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Thinker
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Re: Doctrinal commitment to college education

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762X545 wrote: September 14th, 2022, 11:55 am There is a huuuuuge difference between being educated and being intelligent.
True!

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

Education may be learning what someone else seems important, which may or may not apply to ever-changing circumstances.

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