What is your opinion on Warren Jeffs?

[Qlitewski]

What is your opinion on Warren Jeffs?

[Luke]

A bad man.

I have to point this out every time someone brings this man up since people still don’t understand…

Warren does not represent Fundamentalists. He does not represent Celestial Plural Marriage.

Most Fundamentalists despise him, and most Fundamentalists have never affiliated with his particular sect.

I doubt he even believes in Mormonism. He’s a bisexual rapist.

[BuriedTartaria]

I don't believe all polygamists are like him or that general idea and I'm sure polygamists and/or people who support polygamy feel irritation with Warren Jeffs being what people may point to or think of when polygamy is brought up.

The people interviewed in this video are polygamists (I think they're both polygamists, I know at least the younger one is). I don't share the same views as them but I find them sincere and kind in their views and beliefs. I particularly enjoy hearing the younger one share his views. He seems like a likable person. I doubt he's abusive to his wives.

[Niemand]

I think he is the media's preferred stand in for Mormon fundamentalists. He generates news for them, marries children and so on. He's what they think they are like. The media tends to work with caricatures.

Also like the previous two posters I realise he doesn't represent them all in reality.

[Silver Pie]

What is your opinion on Warren Jeffs?

A creep. A pedophile (going after both boys and girls from the testimonies I saw and heard while I was living in that area. One young man, when he remembered what had been done to him as a child ended up driving his car off the cliff on the road that overlooks Hurricane, Utah because he could not handle that a prophet of God could have done that to him). A liar. A false prophet. Lusts for power, money, and sex.

You didn't ask about our opinions on his followers, but I noticed some others replied anyway. My opinion on his followers (not the ones in power, but the common people) are that they are hard workers, usually suspicious of outsiders (though some warm up when they see you often enough in their stores, etc.). I really hate that the people have (or had; dunno if it's still true) the reputation for all of the being on welfare. There were some who were on the medical aspect of help. Some had food stamps. Many worked hard and were not on any gov't assistance.

I had a friend (who had been LDS but joined them when she married; her husband only had her as a wife) who was reassigned to a new husband because her husband wasn't/couldn't pay the exorbitant monthly amount Jeffs was demanding. She refused. They got kicked out of the religion. A lot of people who couldn't pay the fee were kicked out. I think they were all supposed to also move out of town, but only the firm believers in Jeffs as a prophet did that. The others stayed in their homes.

[simpleton]

A priestcrafter, who took over from a previous priestcrafter who took over from a previous priestcrafter...

And what is sick, is he still has (stated from some who still live there) a few thousand followers that think he is still PS&R. And they look at his lifetime imprisonment as some sort of trial. And that is even after him confessing that he is the devil.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

[simpleton]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

2 different galaxies...

[Reluctant Watchman]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

2 different galaxies...

Ok, we'll make it a large bedsheet.
Kind of splitting hairs here on the continuum of sexual deviancy.

[Vision]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

2 different galaxies...

Why because the legal age for marriage is different in the era's they lived in?

[Wolfwoman]

A terrible person.

[hedgehog]

My friends wife comes from a polygamist family. And is actually related to him. She says he is a terrible person. Like many here I have seen media run the same playbook full of horrible accusations to destroy decent people for the sin of being different, so many of us develop a kneejerk defensiveness. A first hand account from a sympathizer to the lifestyle was more than enough evidence for me.

[hedgehog]

Re the fundamentalists sects, many of whom are here, I Grew up in salt lake church but, as an adult, I cross examined my own internal feelings and logical inconsistencies, and evolved to accept that we aren't as good as I thought, and they aren't as bad as I thought. Its one of my reason I am hopeful that a resurrected Joseph will be the one to lead us back to Jackson county because it will allow the good among the divided branches to be reunited.

Just look, at the divisions between rome and protestants or the Jews and Muslims, they were all onboard the same set of scriptures until Abraham. Then we add a few thousand years and look how that division and claim to contested authority turned out? Both of them worse for the conflict.

[abijah]

Re the fundamentalists sects, many of whom are here, I Grew up in salt lake church but, as an adult, I cross examined my own internal feelings and logical inconsistencies, and evolved to accept that we aren't as good as I thought, and they aren't as bad as I thought.

is it true they're really difficult to leave? like say youre born into it and then wanna become standard LDS?

[Luke]

Re the fundamentalists sects, many of whom are here, I Grew up in salt lake church but, as an adult, I cross examined my own internal feelings and logical inconsistencies, and evolved to accept that we aren't as good as I thought, and they aren't as bad as I thought.

is it true they're really difficult to leave? like say youre born into it and then wanna become standard LDS?

No it isn’t difficult.

The Kingstons and FLDS will put extra pressure on you not to leave, but you can still leave. The others are like leaving any other religious group. I know dozens who have exited various groups.

[Sarah]

There's a show on I've watched a few times called Escaping Polygamy. Does anyone know which group that deals with?

[Silver Pie]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

Worse. A helluva lot worse than Brigham.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Cut from the same cloth as Brigham.

Worse. A helluva lot worse than Brigham.

I don't know about that. Brigham stole tithes from the church. Had men execute (murder) people. And he pushed all of the chaos and deaths from the pioneer immigration onto other people as a scapegoat. Not to mention routing wagons—that were on their way to save the stranded saints—to get his tobacco and alcohol that was stranded. Possibly causing more deaths. Sounds pretty damning to me.

Oh, and he may have conspired to murder Joseph, Hyrum, and Samuel. And condemned Emma. I'm pretty sure Joseph would have taken Brigham out behind the woodshed just for the things he said to her after Joseph's death.

[Silver Pie]

There's a show on I've watched a few times called Escaping Polygamy. Does anyone know which group that deals with?

Google says it's the Kingston clan, based in Salt Lake City.

is it true they're really difficult to leave? like say youre born into it and then wanna become standard LDS?

If you're an unmarried female (especially underage), it can be a nightmare. You have to sneak out, and go somewhere the men in your family don't know about or they'll drag you back (I suppose some families may be an exception to this). I know of a young lady who married under the advice that if she did, she'd be legally emancipated and could then leave her husband and escape. She did.

I've also noticed an interesting effect (a friend of mine who was raised in it, but was a member of the LDS Church when I met him says it is akin to a stretched rubber band.) What happens is they often go the exact opposite of how they've been raised. Some go back to normal (one of my kids' friends went back to normal; is married to a Jamaican and has a few kids - but she was the daughter of my friend who had only joined when she decided to marry a man who lived in CC - so maybe there was less brainwashing there?). They don't really know how to act among "Gentiles" and don't want anything that reminds them of how they've been raised.

Some boys are kicked out, even as minors. They sometimes find help from someone who has been there. It's very difficult for them. About all they have going for them is that they've learned to be hard workers.

I hope all I've said above doesn't happen much anymore. Jeffs said a while back that the religion was canceled (I forget the exact words), so there were many people who left CC but some retained fervent belief in Jeffs as a Prophet. Colorado City (and maybe Hildale; dunno about that) is being taken over by the "second ward" - meaning Centennial Park people. They are "apostates" from Short Crick (Hildale/Colorado City), but you could be talking to one of the women and think she's a typical person because a lot of them dress like a normal "Gentile". When I was living there (quite a while ago), it was up to husbands how his wives and daughters were allowed to dress.

[Silver Pie]

I don't know about that. Brigham stole tithes from the church. Had men execute (murder) people. And he pushed all of the chaos and deaths from the pioneer immigration onto other people as a scapegoat. Not to mention routing wagons—that were on their way to save the stranded saints—to get his tobacco and alcohol that was stranded. Possibly causing more deaths. Sounds pretty damning to me.

Oh, and he may have conspired to murder Joseph, Hyrum, and Samuel. And condemned Emma. I'm pretty sure Joseph would have taken Brigham out behind the woodshed just for the things he said to her after Joseph's death.

Okay, I forgot about the murderous aspects of BY's personality. As far as I know, Jeffs didn't have people killed; he just kicked them out if he didn't like them or if they couldn't meet his demands. But as far as a sexual predator goes, I think Jeffs wins hands down. Jeffs also loved to play musical marriages. Really screwed up wives and kids not knowing how long they'd be allowed to live with the current man.

When his father had a stroke and couldn't speak, Jeffs kept telling the people that this and that was what his father wanted. I don't think he did his father in, but he definitely grabbed the reins before his father's death, to ensure he was in control when the old man died. (I was living in the area when the old Jeffs died. I went to the Dairy Store on the day of his funeral. The people manning the store looked pretty sad.)

[abijah]

If you're an unmarried female (especially underage), it can be a nightmare. You have to sneak out, and go somewhere the men in your family don't know about or they'll drag you back (I suppose some families may be an exception to this). I know of a young lady who married under the advice that if she did, she'd be legally emancipated and could then leave her husband and escape. She did.

I've also noticed an interesting effect (a friend of mine who was raised in it, but was a member of the LDS Church when I met him says it is akin to a stretched rubber band.) What happens is they often go the exact opposite of how they've been raised. Some go back to normal (one of my kids' friends went back to normal; is married to a Jamaican and has a few kids - but she was the daughter of my friend who had only joined when she decided to marry a man who lived in CC - so maybe there was less brainwashing there?). They don't really know how to act among "Gentiles" and don't want anything that reminds them of how they've been raised.

Some boys are kicked out, even as minors. They sometimes find help from someone who has been there. It's very difficult for them. About all they have going for them is that they've learned to be hard workers.

I hope all I've said above doesn't happen much anymore. Jeffs said a while back that the religion was canceled (I forget the exact words), so there were many people who left CC but some retained fervent belief in Jeffs as a Prophet. Colorado City (and maybe Hildale; dunno about that) is being taken over by the "second ward" - meaning Centennial Park people. They are "apostates" from Short Crick (Hildale/Colorado City), but you could be talking to one of the women and think she's a typical person because a lot of them dress like a normal "Gentile". When I was living there (quite a while ago), it was up to husbands how his wives and daughters were allowed to dress.

interesting. i briefly met a missionary once who i guess grew up in something like that and apparently had a hard time leaving.

i didn't even realise jeffs had ties to mormonism till recent, i thought he was just a random cult weirdo that leftists would bring up in association w/ tucker carlson.

[Silver Pie]

i thought he was just a random cult weirdo that leftists would bring up in association w/ tucker carlson.

Wow! I read the description to that video. I would never have expected that from him.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Okay, I forgot about the murderous aspects of BY's personality. As far as I know, Jeffs didn't have people killed; he just kicked them out if he didn't like them or if they couldn't meet his demands. But as far as a sexual predator goes, I think Jeffs wins hands down. Jeffs also loved to play musical marriages. Really screwed up wives and kids not knowing how long they'd be allowed to live with the current man.

When his father had a stroke and couldn't speak, Jeffs kept telling the people that this and that was what his father wanted. I don't think he did his father in, but he definitely grabbed the reins before his father's death, to ensure he was in control when the old man died. (I was living in the area when the old Jeffs died. I went to the Dairy Store on the day of his funeral. The people manning the store looked pretty sad.)

Brigham said that a woman could leave one marriage for a man in higher authority. So.... these guys probably shopped at the same upholstery store.

[Silver Pie]

Brigham said that a woman could leave one marriage for a man in higher authority. So.... these guys probably shopped at the same upholstery store.

True, he did. No doubt, Jeffs did this, but I think he also took the women and children from regular authority men and gave them to other regular authority men - though I haven't actually looked into this aspect, so maybe I'm talking out of my hat. I don't know that BY took women from their husbands and assigned them to other men, though. Let alone fairly regularly.

I guess it's a draw. Both men are/were servants of the devil (though I've never heard of BY messing with little boys). I concede that BY was quite vile, possibly worse than Jeffs (but only because he could get away with murder)

[Reluctant Watchman]

Brigham said that a woman could leave one marriage for a man in higher authority. So.... these guys probably shopped at the same upholstery store.

True, he did. No doubt, Jeffs did this, but I think he also took the women and children from regular authority men and gave them to other regular authority men - though I haven't actually looked into this aspect, so maybe I'm talking out of my hat. I don't know that BY took women from their husbands and assigned them to other men, though. Let alone fairly regularly.

I guess it's a draw. Both men are/were servants of the devil (though I've never heard of BY messing with little boys). I concede that BY was quite vile, possibly worse than Jeffs (but only because he could get away with murder)

I am being a bit facetious with this. Lots of crazy stuff regardless of the man or generation.