Trying Spirits

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Ado
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Trying Spirits

Post by Ado »

Paul states, “ For such are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13–15)

So, Satan and demons can be transformed into angels of light to deceive us. How do we recognize them so we aren’t deceived?

John states, "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" (1 John 4:2-3)

Paul states, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)


Ok, so we can tell if a spirit is of God if it confesses Jesus Christ, and that a spirit is of the devil if it preaches a gospel contrary to Jesus Christ.
But then we read:

“And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; for what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.” (Mark 1:23-25)
“And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.” (Mark 1:34)


This seems confusing and contradictory to me and I want to understand it better.
If even unclean spirits have to be shut up to prevent them from confessing Jesus Christ before it was time, then how are we supposed to discern between those with the spirit of God, and those with the spirit of satan/deceivers transformed into angels of light/wolves in sheeps clothing?

Mamabear
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by Mamabear »

Paul states, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

I think that is a great scripture.
I had the same questions recently…. Here’s some of what I came up with.
Do they (false prophets) preach another gospel other than what the apostles of old preached? Do they add to the gospel? Do they twist the gospel to fit their narrative? Do they deny the power of our Lord Jesus Christ who is mighty to save? Or do they say salvation comes by other or additional means?
If so, then they are deceptive whether angels or people.

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nightlight
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by nightlight »

adocrawford wrote: September 6th, 2022, 2:43 pm Paul states, “ For such are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13–15)

So, Satan and demons can be transformed into angels of light to deceive us. How do we recognize them so we aren’t deceived?

John states, "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" (1 John 4:2-3)

Paul states, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)


Ok, so we can tell if a spirit is of God if it confesses Jesus Christ, and that a spirit is of the devil if it preaches a gospel contrary to Jesus Christ.
But then we read:

“And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; for what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.” (Mark 1:23-25)
“And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.” (Mark 1:34)


This seems confusing and contradictory to me and I want to understand it better.
If even unclean spirits have to be shut up to prevent them from confessing Jesus Christ before it was time, then how are we supposed to discern between those with the spirit of God, and those with the spirit of satan/deceivers transformed into angels of light/wolves in sheeps clothing?
The unclean spirit didn't confess himself for Christ. It simply knew who He was.

Jesus is God, this is a reality that the other side knows.

What they won't do is confess Jesus of Nazareth as their God and that they come to preach His gospel.

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John Tavner
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by John Tavner »

Here is one example of the Word in Greek 3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse).

[3670 /homologéō ("confess") means to speak the same thing, i.e. "assent, agree with, confess, declare, admit" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 120).]

This means anyone who is in full agreement with Christ and says Jesus is Lord. Lord meaning He is our governor - our lives are guided by Him, we are followers. We are dedicated followers of Him. and Praise him and join Him in bringing for the Kingdom.

Part of that to0 is the key part which is "come in the flesh" I believe this is important because John is saying that we can be like Christ. That Jesus Christ came in the flesh and did all in the flehs, which means we too can do all He did in the flesh. SO any spirit that tells you that you can not become like Christ, can not live in the Spirit, that you can not fully submit to the Father and Him abid in you and you abide in the Spirit is not of God. It is a call to perfection and love. We then agree with that statement and are in full accord desiring to submit entirely to Him to let God form us in His image and we can be formed in His image - into what was the mystery of the ages which was held back in that it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory. ". That is my understanding or at least part of my understanding.

Ado
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by Ado »

One thing I wanted to add is that I’ve seen on here a few people say they heard it reported that Elder Cook told leaders in their stake that he knows the face and voice of the Savior.
He was reported by a member of our stake presidency to have said the same thing when he visited my stake not long ago with the exact same words. I also heard him say something along the lines of “Since I have been called as an apostle, I have witnessed that the Lord manages the affairs of this church usually through the workings of the Holy Spirit - but He given us direct instruction from Himself on several occasions when it comes to matters of our temples, and a few times in relation to missionary work.” The way he said it made it seem as if he was telling us that Jesus Himself has appeared to give instruction on those subjects. There were lots of gasps and expressions of emotion from people in the congregation when he said it, but I was left wondering why they can’t just come out and say what they mean. It’s almost as if they are unable to clearly and directly declare that the resurrected Savior Jesus Christ is directing them. How is clearly telling a congregation that they have spoken with the resurrected Savior different than making allusions to it?
When I was in the MTC several years ago, Elder Richard G Scott spoke to us. I had been anxious and having doubts about serving at that time. It was something I was praying hard about. Anyways, I have to admit I tuned out most of his talk. He used a PowerPoint and showed several slides that I can’t remember the point of now. I felt a bit sleepy in all honesty. Then, at the end of his talk, he said “If you only remember one thing that I said today, I want it to be that an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ stood before you and bore personal witness to you that Jesus Christ is a living, glorified being of flesh and bone…” I had heard similar sentiments before from apostles during general conference. But for some reason, when he said it this time, it was as if my soul suddenly caught on fire and I could feel what I imagine the “burning in the bosom” to be. I had about a minute where I felt what I would call perfect joy. Every fear, every doubt left me. I have struggled with anxiety and depression my entire life. But in that moment, I felt it all disappear so completely, and I experienced happiness to such a degree that I actually thought I would burst into flames. I’ll never forget that, and it’s the reason why, even though I have so many concerns about the church today, I can’t bring myself to leave it. How could a lying man give a witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ that is so validated by the Spirit, it actually removed all anxiety and depression from me for a discernible moment of time?

Mamabear
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by Mamabear »

adocrawford wrote: September 6th, 2022, 3:22 pm One thing I wanted to add is that I’ve seen on here a few people say they heard it reported that Elder Cook told leaders in their stake that he knows the face and voice of the Savior.
He was reported by a member of our stake presidency to have said the same thing when he visited my stake not long ago with the exact same words. I also heard him say something along the lines of “Since I have been called as an apostle, I have witnessed that the Lord manages the affairs of this church usually through the workings of the Holy Spirit - but He given us direct instruction from Himself on several occasions when it comes to matters of our temples, and a few times in relation to missionary work.” The way he said it made it seem as if he was telling us that Jesus Himself has appeared to give instruction on those subjects. There were lots of gasps and expressions of emotion from people in the congregation when he said it, but I was left wondering why they can’t just come out and say what they mean. It’s almost as if they are unable to clearly and directly declare that the resurrected Savior Jesus Christ is directing them. How is clearly telling a congregation that they have spoken with the resurrected Savior different than making allusions to it?
When I was in the MTC several years ago, Elder Richard G Scott spoke to us. I had been anxious and having doubts about serving at that time. It was something I was praying hard about. Anyways, I have to admit I tuned out most of his talk. He used a PowerPoint and showed several slides that I can’t remember the point of now. I felt a bit sleepy in all honesty. Then, at the end of his talk, he said “If you only remember one thing that I said today, I want it to be that an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ stood before you and bore personal witness to you that Jesus Christ is a living, glorified being of flesh and bone…” I had heard similar sentiments before from apostles during general conference. But for some reason, when he said it this time, it was as if my soul suddenly caught on fire and I could feel what I imagine the “burning in the bosom” to be. I had about a minute where I felt what I would call perfect joy. Every fear, every doubt left me. I have struggled with anxiety and depression my entire life. But in that moment, I felt it all disappear so completely, and I experienced happiness to such a degree that I actually thought I would burst into flames. I’ll never forget that, and it’s the reason why, even though I have so many concerns about the church today, I can’t bring myself to leave it. How could a lying man give a witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ that is so validated by the Spirit, it actually removed all anxiety and depression from me for a discernible moment of time?
Maybe it was more a matter of what was said than who said it? In that moment what you heard helped you connect to the Savior?

I sometimes wonder if what we deem as false prophets isn’t accurate. We think they’re wicked men that are odd and perhaps anti christ. However we know that the false ones appear to do good works and love Jesus Christ.
Remember they also use and speak in Jesus’s name:
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I say, ye never knew me: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Matthew 7:22-23

CMajor
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by CMajor »

Moses saw God with his spiritual eyes and not natural, for if he would have, he would have withered and died in his presence. Moses 1:11-15
Then Satan comes tempting him saying: Moses son of man, worship me.
And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold I am a son of God....and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?
Moses said I can look upon thee in the natural man. But God's glory is as Joseph Smith described, beyond the brightness of the sun.
An Angel of light can appear to man but has no glory, or brightness. You can easily see them, even if a slightly dingy grey color.
There are many who are deceived because they are surprised to start with, and don't remember about the Glory part.
Joseph taught that touching them with a regular hand shake, to see if they have a body.

There was a case I heard of that a 14 year old had a spirit of light appear to him. He remembered to try the handshake, and the spirit said "you're not ready for that" which in essence was deception. The message he delivered was all about death and destruction. Nothing uplifting. The young man went to his Bishop for an explanation. The Bishop said the Angel of light was referring to a temple handshake. Here again bad advice, because the Bishop was in essence saying "this is a real angel" and teaching false doctrine, that you use the temple handshake.

Yes an angel of light who avoided being touched, because he had no body. And confused a 14 year old, because he should have been taught there are two kinds of Angel's 1. Resurrected personages having bodies of flesh and bones, 2.Spirits of just men made perfect, who are not resurrected but inherit the same glory or brightness.
The resurrected angel will upon request will shake hands with you.
The just man made perfect will also appear in glory. When asked to shake hands he will not attempt to, because it is against the order of God to deceive, but will still deliver his message.
In section 129:8 it states that if it is an angel of light he will offer his hand but you won't feel anything. Satan is smart and has learned to get around being touched by making that comment: you're not old enough to do the proper handshake" Satans Angel's of light have no glory ( brightness) the Angel's of God do have glory, above the brightness of the sun.

Ado
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by Ado »

CMajor wrote: September 7th, 2022, 9:29 am Moses saw God with his spiritual eyes and not natural, for if he would have, he would have withered and died in his presence. Moses 1:11-15
Then Satan comes tempting him saying: Moses son of man, worship me.
And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold I am a son of God....and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?
Moses said I can look upon thee in the natural man. But God's glory is as Joseph Smith described, beyond the brightness of the sun.
An Angel of light can appear to man but has no glory, or brightness. You can easily see them, even if a slightly dingy grey color.
There are many who are deceived because they are surprised to start with, and don't remember about the Glory part.
Joseph taught that touching them with a regular hand shake, to see if they have a body.

There was a case I heard of that a 14 year old had a spirit of light appear to him. He remembered to try the handshake, and the spirit said "you're not ready for that" which in essence was deception. The message he delivered was all about death and destruction. Nothing uplifting. The young man went to his Bishop for an explanation. The Bishop said the Angel of light was referring to a temple handshake. Here again bad advice, because the Bishop was in essence saying "this is a real angel" and teaching false doctrine, that you use the temple handshake.

Yes an angel of light who avoided being touched, because he had no body. And confused a 14 year old, because he should have been taught there are two kinds of Angel's 1. Resurrected personages having bodies of flesh and bones, 2.Spirits of just men made perfect, who are not resurrected but inherit the same glory or brightness.
The resurrected angel will upon request will shake hands with you.
The just man made perfect will also appear in glory. When asked to shake hands he will not attempt to, because it is against the order of God to deceive, but will still deliver his message.
In section 129:8 it states that if it is an angel of light he will offer his hand but you won't feel anything. Satan is smart and has learned to get around being touched by making that comment: you're not old enough to do the proper handshake" Satans Angel's of light have no glory ( brightness) the Angel's of God do have glory, above the brightness of the sun.
I have seen a spirit that didn’t even try to appear as coming from God. I could feel the coldness and darkness of it. Dingy grey color is a good description. But I’ve always wondered about demons that appear as angels of light. Those verses from Moses actually help a lot. When I had my experience in the MTC, I could feel and see light all around me in a way that was not physical - it was more than physical.
Interesting story about the 14 year old. It seems obvious that an angel sent from God would be eager to offer a witness/proof of who sent them. Why even visit a 14 year old if that 14 year old isn't old enough to get that evidence? Typical “take my word for it, you’ll figure it out in the temple when you’re older” line I’m so tired of.

onefour1
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by onefour1 »

SECTION 129

Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished.

1–3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4–9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.

1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Trying Spirits

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Fifteen Keys that Joseph Smith gave us to Discerning of Spirits of an Angel of Light
and by contract, keys to discern a Translated True Messenger

Discerning of Spirits by Power of Priesthood

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of light? If Satan should appear as one in glory,
[1] who can tell his color, [2] his signs, [3] his appearance, [4] his glory, or [5] what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets with their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this [7] without the Priesthood, and having a [8] knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysteries operations of his devices; without [9] knowing the angelic form, [10] the sanctified look and [11] gesture, and [12] the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with [13] the prophetic spirit, [13] the gracious influence, [14] the godly appearance, and [15] the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.


The full quote:

"Try the Spirits"
The Prophet's Editorial in the Times and Seasons

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Recent occurrences that have transpired amongst us render it an imperative duty devolving upon me to say something in relation to the spirits by which men are actuated.

It is evident from the Apostles' writings, that many false spirits existed in their day, and had "gone forth into the world," and that it needed intelligence which God alone could impart to detect false spirits, and to prove what spirits were of God. The world in general have been grossly ignorant in regard to this one thing, and why should they be otherwise -- for "the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."

The Egyptians were not able to discover the difference between the miracles of Moses and those of the magicians until they came to be tested together; and if Moses had not appeared in their midst, they would unquestionably have thought that the miracles of the magicians were performed through the mighty power of God, for they were great miracles that were performed by them -- a supernatural agency was developed, and great power manifested.

It would have been equally as difficult for us to tell by what spirit the Apostles prophesied, or by what power the Apostles spoke and worked miracles. Who could have told whether the power of Simon, the sorcerer, was of God or of the devil?

There always did, in every age, seem to be a lack of intelligence pertaining to this subject. Spirits of all kinds have been manifested, in every age, and almost among all people.

If we go among the pagans, they have their spirits; the Mohammedans, the Jews, the Christians, the Indians -- all have their spirits, all have a supernatural agency, and all contend that their spirits are of God. Who shall solve the mystery? "Try the spirits," says John, but who is to do it? The learned, eloquent, the philosopher, the sage, the divine -- all are ignorant. The heathens will boast of their gods, and of the great things that have been unfolded by their oracles. The Mussulman will boast of his Koran, and of the divine communications that his progenitors have received. The Jews have had numerous instances, both ancient and modern, among them of men who have professed to be inspired, and sent to bring about great events, and the Christian world has not been slow in making up the number.

Ignorance of the Nature of Spirits

"Try the spirits," but what by? Are we to try them by the creeds of men? What preposterous folly -- what sheer ignorance -- what madness! Try the motions and actions of an eternal being (for I contend that all spirits are such) by a thing that was conceived in ignorance, and brought forth in folly -- a cobweb of yesterday! Angels would hide their faces, and devils would be ashamed and insulted, and would say, "Paul we know, and Jesus we know, but who are ye?" Let each man of society make a creed and try evil spirits by it, and the devil would shake his sides; it is all that he would ask -- all that he would desire. Yet many of them do this, and hence "many spirits are abroad in the world."

One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc., and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested, that it must be of God. Hence the Methodists, Presbyterians, and others frequently possess a spirit that will cause them to lie down, and during its operation, animation is frequently entirely suspended; they consider it to be the power of God, and a glorious manifestation from God -- a manifestation of what? Is there any intelligence communicated? Are the curtains of heaven withdrawn, or the purposes of God developed? Have they seen and conversed with an angel -- or have the glories of futurity burst upon their view? No! but their body has been inanimate, the operation of their spirit suspended, and all the intelligence that can be obtained from them when they arise, is a shout of "glory," or "hallelujah," or some incoherent expression; but they have had "the power."

The Shaker will whirl around on his heel, impelled by a supernatural agency or spirit, and think that he is governed by the Spirit of God; and the Jumper will jump and enter into all kinds of extravagances. A Primitive Methodist will shout under the influence of that spirit, until he will rend the heavens with his cries; while the Quakers (or Friends) moved as they think, by the Spirit of God, will sit still and say nothing. Is God the author of all this? If not all of it, which does He recognize? Surely, such a heterogeneous mass of confusion never can enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Discerning of Spirits by Power of Priesthood

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of light? If Satan should appear as one in glory, who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory, or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets with their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who
can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysteries operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the
prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.


A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in which it has been clothed.

The Spirit of God the Spirit of Knowledge

As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lies in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known; if it requires the Spirit of God to know the things of God; and the spirit of the devil can only be unmasked through that medium, then it follows as a natural consequence that unless some person or persons have a communication, or revelation from God, unfolding to them the operation of the spirit, they must eternally remain ignorant of these principles; for I contend that if one man cannot understand these things but by the Spirit of God, ten thousand men cannot; it is alike out of the reach of the wisdom of the learned, the tongue of the eloquent, the power of the mighty. And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think of revelation, that without it we can neither know nor understand anything of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions concerning this matter that they understand nothing of this principle, and it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.

The Gift of Discernment of Spirits

A man must have the discerning of spirits, as we before stated, to understand these things, and how is he to obtain this gift if there are no gifts of the Spirit? And how can these gifts be obtained without revelation? "Christ ascended into heaven, and gave gifts to men; and he gave some Apostles, and some Prophets, and some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers." And how were Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers and Evangelists chosen? By prophecy (revelation) and by laying on of hands -- by a divine communication, and a divinely appointed ordinance -- through the medium of the Priesthood, organized according to the order of God, by divine appointment. The Apostles in ancient times held the keys of this Priesthood -- of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and consequently were enabled to unlock and unravel all things pertaining to the government of the Church, the welfare of society, the future destiny of men, and the agency, power and influence of spirits; for they could control them at pleasure, bid them depart in the name of Jesus, and detect their mischievous and mysterious operations when trying to palm themselves upon the Church in a religious garb, and militate against the interest of the Church and spread truth. We read that they "cast out devils in the name of Jesus," and when a woman possessing the spirit of divination, cried before Paul and Silas, "these are the servants of the Most High God that show unto us the way of salvation," they detected the spirit. And although she spake favorably of them, Paul commanded the spirit come out of her, and saved themselves from the opprobrium that might have been heaped upon their heads, through an alliance with her, in the development of her wicked principles, which they certainly would have been charged
with, if they had not rebuked the evil spirit.

The Gift Held by the Prophets

A power similar to this existed through the medium of the Priesthood in different ages. Moses could detect the magician's power, and show that he [himself] was God's servant -- he knew when he was upon the mountain (through revelation) that Israel was engaged in idolatry; he could develop the sin of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, detect witches and wizards in their proceedings, and point out the true prophets of the Lord. Joshua knew how to detect the man who had stolen the wedge of gold and the Babylonish garment. Michaiah could point out the false spirit by which the four hundred prophets were governed; and if his advice had been taken, many lives would have been spared, ((2 Chronicles 18) Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and many other prophets possessed this power. Our Savior, the Apostles, and even the members of the Church were endowed with this gift, for, says Paul, (1 Corinthians 12), "To one is given the gift of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discerning of spirits." All these proceeded from the same Spirit of God, and were the gifts of God. The Ephesian church were enabled by this principle, "to try those that said they were apostles, and were not, and found them liars." (Revelation 2:2.)

Difference Between Body and Spirit

In tracing the thing to the foundation, and looking at it philosophically, we shall find a very material difference between the body and the spirit; the body is supposed to be organized matter, and the spirit, by many, is thought to be immaterial, without substance. With this latter statement we should beg leave to differ, and state the spirit is a substance; that it is material, but that it is more pure, elastic and refined matter than the body; that it existed before the body, can exist in the body; and will exist separate from the body, when the body will be mouldering in the dust; and will in the resurrection be again united with it.

Spirits Eternal

Without attempting to describe this mysterious connection, and the laws that govern the body and the spirit of man, their relationship to each other, and the design of God in relation to the human body and spirit, I would just remark, that the spirits of men are eternal, that they are governed by the same Priesthood that Abraham, Melchizedek, and the Apostles were: that they are organized according to that Priesthood which is everlasting, "without beginning of days or end of year," -- that they all move in their respective spheres, and are governed by the law of God; that when they appear upon the earth they are in a probationary state, and are preparing, if righteous, for a future and greater glory; that the spirits of good men cannot interfere with the wicked beyond their prescribed bounds, for Michael, the Archangel, dared not bring a railing accusation against the devil, but said, "The Lord rebuke thee, Satan."

Wicked Spirits Restricted in Power

It would seem also, that wicked spirits have their bounds, limits, and laws by which they are governed or controlled, and know their future destiny; hence, those that were in the maniac said to our Savior, "Art thou come to torment us before the time," and when Satan presented himself before the Lord, among the sons of God, he said that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from wandering up and down in it;" and he is emphatically called the prince of the power of the air; and, it is very evident that they possess a power that none but those who have the Priesthood can control, as we have before adverted to, in the case of the sons of Sceva.

Having said so much upon the general principles, without referring to the peculiar situation, power, and influence of the magicians of Egypt, the wizards and witches of the Jews, the oracles of the heathen, their necromancers, soothsayers, and astrologers, the maniacs or those possessed of devils in the Apostles' days, we will notice, and try to detect (so far as we have the Scriptures for our aid) some few instances of the development of false spirits in more modern times, and in this our day.

False Prophets

The "French Prophets" were possessed of a spirit that deceived; they existed in Vivaris and Dauphany, in great numbers in the year 1688; there were many boys and girls from seven to twenty-five; they had strange fits, as in tremblings and faintings, which made them stretch out their legs and arms, as in a swoon; they remained awhile in trances, and coming out of them, uttered all that came in their mouths. [see Buck's Theological Dictionary]

Now God never had any prophets that acted in this way; there was nothing indecorous in the proceeding of the Lord's prophets in any age; neither had the apostles nor prophets in the apostles' day anything of this kind. Paul says, "Ye may all prophesy, one by one; and if anything be revealed to another let the first hold his peace, for the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets;" but here we find that the prophets are subject to the spirit, and falling down, have twitchings, tumblings, and faintings through the influence of that spirit, being entirely under its control. Paul says, "Let everything be done decently and in order," but here we find the greatest disorder and indecency in the conduct of both men and women, as above described. The same rule would apply to the fallings, twitchings, swoonings, shaking, and trances of many of our
modern revivalists.

Johanna Southcott professed to be a prophetess, and wrote a book of prophecies in 1804, she became the founder of a people that are still extant. She was to bring forth, in a place appointed, a son, that was to be the Messiah, which thing has failed. Independent of this, however, where do we read of a woman that was the founder of a church, in the word
of God? Paul told the women in his day, "To keep silence in the church, and that if they wished to know anything to ask their husbands at home;" he would not suffer a woman "to rule, or to usurp authority in the church;" but here we find a woman the founder of a church, the revelator and guide, the Alpha and Omega, contrary to all acknowledged rule,
principle, and order.

Jemimah Wilkinson was another prophetess that figured largely in America, in the last century. She stated that she was taken sick and died, and that her soul went to heaven, where it still continues. Soon after, her body was reanimated with the spirit and power of Christ, upon which she set up as a public teacher, and declared that she had an immediate revelation. Now the Scriptures positively assert that "Christ is the first fruit, afterwards those that are Christ's at His coming, then cometh the end." But Jemimah, according to her testimony, died, and rose again before the time mentioned in the Scriptures. The idea of her soul being in heaven while her body was [living] on earth, is also preposterous. When God breathed into man's nostrils, he became a living soul, before that he did not live, and when that was taken away his body died; and so did our Savior when the spirit left the body, nor did His body live until His spirit returned in the power of His resurrection. But Mrs. Wilkinson's soul [life] was in heaven, and her body without the soul [or life] on earth, living [without the soul, or] without life!

Irvingites

The Irvingites are a people that have counterfeited the truth, perhaps the nearest of any of our modern sectarians. They commenced about ten years ago in the city of London, in England; they have churches formed in various parts of England and Scotland, and some few in Upper Canada. Mr. Irving, their founder, was a learned and talented minister of the Church of Scotland, he was a great logician, and a powerful orator, but withal wild and enthusiastic in his views. Moving in the higher circles, and possessing talent and zeal, placed him in a situation to become a conspicuous character, and to raise up a society similar to that which is called after his name.

The Irvingites have apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and angels. They profess to have the gift of tongues, and the interpretation of tongues, and, in some few instances, to have the gift of healing.

The first prophetic spirit that was manifested was in some Misses Campbell that Mr. Irving met with, while on a journey in Scotland; they had [what is termed among their sect] "utterances," which were evidently of a supernatural agency. Mr. Irving, falling into the common error of considering all supernatural manifestations to be of God, took them to London with him, and introduced them into his church.

They were there honored as the prophetesses of God, and when they spoke, Mr. Irving or any of his ministers had to keep silence. They were peculiarly wrought upon before the congregation, and had strange utterances, uttered with an unnatural, shrill voice, and with thrilling intonations they frequently made use of a few broken, unconnected sentences, that were ambiguous, incoherent, and incomprehensible; at other time they were more clearly understood. They would frequently cry out, "There is iniquity! There is iniquity!" And Mr. Irving has been led, under the influence of this charge, to fall down upon his knees before the public congregation, and to confess his sin, not knowing whether he had sinned, nor wherein, nor whether the thing referred to him or somebody else. During these operations, the bodies of the persons speaking were powerfully wrought upon, their countenances were distorted, they had frequent twitchings in their hands, and the whole system was powerfully convulsed at intervals: they sometimes, however, (it is supposed) spoke in correct tongues, and had true interpretations.

Under the influence of this spirit the church was organized by these women; apostles, prophets, etc., were soon called, and a systematic order of things introduced, as above mentioned. A Mr. Baxter (afterwards one of their principal prophets) upon going into one of their meetings, says, "I saw a power manifested, and thought that was the power of God, and asked that it might fall upon me, and it did so, and I began to prophesy." Eight or nine years ago they had about sixty preachers going through the streets of London, testifying that London was to be the place where the "two witnesses" spoken of by John, were to prophesy; that (they the church and the spirit were the witnesses, and that at the end of three years and a half there was to be an earthquake and great destruction, and our Savior was to come. Their apostles were collected together at the appointed time watching the event, but Jesus did not come, and the prophecy was then ambiguously explained away. They frequently had signs given them by the spirit to prove to them that what was manifested to them should take place. Mr. Baxter related an impression that he had concerning a child. It was manifested to him that he should visit the child, and lay hands upon it, and that it should be healed; and to prove to him that this was of God, he should meet his brother in a certain place, who should speak unto him certain words. His brother addressed him precisely in the way and manner that the manifestation designated. The sign took place, but when he laid his hands upon the child it did not recover. I cannot vouch for the authority of the last statement, as Mr. Baxter at that time had left the Irvingites, but it is in accordance with many of their proceedings, and the thing never has been attempted to be denied.

All This Is Wrong

It may be asked, where is there anything in all this that is wrong?

First. The church was organized by women, and God placed in the Church (first apostles, secondarily prophets,) and not first women; but Mr. Irving placed in his church first women (secondarily apostles,) and the church was founded and organized by them. A woman has no right to found or organize a church -- God never sent them to do it.

Second. Those women would speak in the midst of a meeting, and rebuke Mr. Irving or any of the church. Now the Scripture positively says, "Thou shalt not rebuke an Elder, but entreat him as a father;" not only this, but they frequently accused the brethren, thus placing themselves in the seat of Satan, who is emphatically called "the accuser of the brethren."

Third. Mr. Baxter received the spirit on asking for it, without attending to the ordinances, and began to prophesy, whereas the scriptural way of attaining the gift of the Holy Ghost is by baptism, and by laying on of hands.

Fourth. As we have stated in regard to others, the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets; but those prophets were subject to the spirits, the spirits controlling their bodies at pleasure.

But it may be asked how Mr. Baxter could get a sign from a second person? To this we would answer, that Mr. Baxter's brother was under the influence of the same spirit as himself, and being subject to that spirit he could be easily made to speak to Mr. Baxter whatever the spirit should dictate; but there was not power in the spirit to heal the child.

Satan May Give Manifestations in Tongues

Again it may be asked, how it was that they could speak in tongues if they were of the devil. We would answer that they could be made to speak in another tongue, as well as their own, as they were under the control of that spirit, and the devil can tempt the Hottentot, the Turk, the Jew, or any other nation; and if these men were under the influence of his spirit, they of course speak Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Italian, Dutch, or any other language that the devil knew.

Some will say, "try the spirits" by the word. "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God." 1 John 4:2, 3. One of the Irvingites once quoted this passage whilst under the influence of a spirit, and then said, "I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." And yet these prophecies failed, their Messiah did not come; and the great things spoken of by them have fallen to the ground. What is the matter here? Did not the Apostle speak the truth? Certainly he did -- but he spoke to a people who were under the penalty of death, the moment they embraced Christianity; and no one without a knowledge of the fact would confess it, and expose themselves to death, and this was consequently given as a criterion to the church or churches to which John wrote. But the devil on a certain occasion cried out, "I know thee, who thou art, the Holy One of God!" Here was a frank acknowledgment under other circumstances that "Jesus had come in the flesh." On another occasion the devil said, "Paul we know, and Jesus we know" -- of course, "come in the flesh." No man nor sect of men without the regular constituted authorities, the Priesthood and discerning of spirits, can tell true from false spirits. This power they possessed in the Apostles' day, but it has departed from the world for ages.

False Spirits in the Church

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has also had its false spirits; and as it is made up of all those different sects professing every variety of opinion, and having been under the influence of so many kinds of spirits, it is not to be wondered at if there should be found among us false spirits.

Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland, and during the absence of the authorities of the Church, many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out of doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into, calculated to bring disgrace upon the Church of God, to cause the Spirit of God to be withdrawn, and to uproot and destroy those glorious principles which had been developed for the salvation of the human family. But when the authorities returned, the spirit was made manifest, those members that were exercised with it were tried for their fellowship, and those that would not repent and forsake it were cut off.

At a subsequent period a Shaker spirit was on the point of being introduced, and at another time the Methodist and Presbyterian falling down power, but the spirit was rebuked and put down, and those who would not submit to rule and good order were disfellowshiped. We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely; they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted like the Irvingites before alluded to; whereas, there is nothing unnatural in the Spirit of God. A circumstance of this kind took place in Upper Canada, but was rebuked by the presiding Elder; another, a woman near the same place, professed to have the discerning spirits, and began to accuse another sister of things that she was not guilty of, which she said she knew was so by the spirit, but was afterwards proven to be false; she placed herself in the capacity of the "accuser of the brethren," and no person through the discerning of spirits can bring a charge against another, they must be proven guilty by positive evidence, or they stand clear.

There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light. A sister in the state of New York had a vision, who said it was told her that if she would go to a certain place in the woods, and angel would appear to her. She went at the appointed time, and saw a glorious personage descending, arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; he commenced and told her to fear God, and said that her husband was called to do great things, but that he must not go more than one hundred miles from home, or he would not return; whereas God had called him to go to the ends of the earth, and he has since been more than one thousand miles from home, and is yet alive. Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation.

We have also had brethren and sisters who have written revelations, and who have started forward to lead this Church. Such was a young boy in Kirtland, Isaac Russell, of Missouri, and Gladden Bishop, and Oliver Olney of Nauvoo. The boy is now living with his parents who have submitted to the laws of the Church. Mr. Russell stayed in Far West, from whence he was to go to the Rocky Mountains, led by three Nephites; but the Nephites never came, and his friends forsook him, all but some of the blood relations, who have since been nearly destroyed by the mob. Mr. Bishop was tried by the High Council, his papers examined, condemned and burned, and he cut off the Church. He acknowledged the justice of the decision, and said "that he now saw his error, for if the had been governed by the revelations given before, he might have known that no man was to write revelations for the Church, but Joseph Smith," and begged to be prayed for, and forgiven by the brethren. Mr. Olney has also been tried by the High Council and disfellowshiped, because he would not have his writings tested by the word of God; evidently proving that he loves darkness rather than light, because his deeds are evil.

Remarks of the Prophet at the Funeral of Ephraim Marks

The Saints in Nauvoo assembled at the house of President Marks, at an early hour in the morning, to pay their last respects to the body of Ephraim Marks, son of President William Marks, who died on the evening of the 7th. A large procession formed and walked to the Grove, where a numerous congregation had assembled. President Joseph Smith spoke upon the occasion with much feeling and interest. Among his remarks he said, "It is a very solemn and awful time. I never felt more solemn; it calls to mind the death of my oldest brother, Alvin, who died in New York, and my youngest brother, Don Carlos Smith, who died in Nauvoo. It has been hard for me to live on earth and see these young men upon whom we have leaned for support and comfort taken from us in the midst of their youth. Yes, it has been hard to be reconciled to these things. I have sometimes thought that I should have felt more reconciled to have been called away myself if it had been the will of God; yet I know we ought to be still and know it is of God, and be reconciled to His will; all is right. It will be but a short time before we shall all in like manner be called: it may be the case with me as well as you. Some have supposed that Brother Joseph could not die; but this is a mistake; it is true there have been times when I have had the promise of my life to accomplish such and such things, but, having now accomplished those things, I have not at present any lease of my life, I am as liable to die as other men.

I can say in my heart, that I have not done anything against Ephraim Marks that I am sorry for, and I would ask any of his companions if they have anything against him that they are sorry for, or that they would not like to meet and answer for at the bar of God, if so, let it prove as a warning to all to deal justly before God, and with all mankind, then we shall be clear in the day of judgment.

When we lose a near and dear friend, upon whom we have set our hearts, it should be a caution unto us not to set our affections too firmly upon others, knowing that they in like manner be taken from us. Our affections should be placed upon God and His work, more intensely than upon our fellow beings. (April 9, 1842.) DHC 4:587. [Quoted from TPJS, pp. 202-215]


A side note... What is Satan's color?

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