The Fall of Adam, Ancient Lie, and Redemption of Zion

[Alexander]

Re: The Millennium

D&C 45:54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

55 And Satan shall be bound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.

59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

2 Nephi 2
And they would have had no children [had they not condescended]

Ok, so scripturally, we can conclude two things:

1. While in the garden of Eden before their fall, Adam and Even would have no children.
2. During the Millennium, people will multiply and wax strong. They will have children.

The millennium is the Garden of Eden

[marc]

Re: The Millennium

D&C 45:54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

55 And Satan shall be bound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.

59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

2 Nephi 2
And they would have had no children [had they not condescended]

Ok, so scripturally, we can conclude two things:

1. While in the garden of Eden before their fall, Adam and Even would have no children.
2. During the Millennium, people will multiply and wax strong. They will have children.

Yes.

Also, the state of Adam and Eve would be different than the state of those who are living in a millennium.

That lends some credence to my earlier observation about Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit out of season.

[Alexander]

Children aren’t born in the millennium.

Source?

Where does it say angels have sex?

Terrestrial Adam and Eve couldn’t bear children until condescending into the temporal Telestial sphere (Book of Mormon 101)

Source: "trust me bro" jk


At the end of the Millennium, when Satan is let out again, who does he began to deceive?

The sons and daughters of God and Adam and Eve.

[marc]

Re: The Millennium

D&C 45:54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

55 And Satan shall be bound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.

59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

2 Nephi 2
And they would have had no children [had they not condescended]

Ok, so scripturally, we can conclude two things:

1. While in the garden of Eden before their fall, Adam and Even would have no children.
2. During the Millennium, people will multiply and wax strong. They will have children.

The millennium is the Garden of Eden

Both are Terrestrial, but in different seasons (or dispensations). What makes the Millennium different is Jesus Christ's personal reign. In any case, during Christ's personal reign where the Earth returns to its paradisaical state, people will multiply. Children will be born and they will have children.

[Obeone]

adam Did Not Comit sin in ating the fruit, for God had Deceed that he should Eat & fall—But in complyance with the Decree he should Die—only he should Die was the saying of the Lord therefore the Lord apointed us to fall & also Redeemed us—for where sin abounded Grace did Much More abound

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ary-1841/3

Adam did not commit sin in partaking the fruit because his eyes were opened only after he partook.
But though it was not a sin, it was a grievous and deadly error, that caused him his life and placed a curse upon himself and his posterity.

Plan A was: resist the temptation, and live in a Millennium right off the bat.
Plan B was: if you choose to disobey, you are cursed and punished, and if you repent, you can be redeemed. But you will be cursed first.

Adam chose wrong. He chose the plan that God forbade.

That Plan B existed did not mean it was recommended. Hell is also a part of the plan, but it is not recommended by God, in fact it is forbidden by Him. People get there against God's advice.

That's what happened to Adam.

There indeed was a better way, because God has spoken it.

[nightlight]

Source?

Where does it say angels have sex?

Terrestrial Adam and Eve couldn’t bear children until condescending into the temporal Telestial sphere (Book of Mormon 101)

Source: "trust me bro" jk


At the end of the Millennium, when Satan is let out again, who does he began to deceive?

The sons and daughters of God and Adam and Eve.

So...you are saying he deceives those who take part in the first resurrection? Resurrected men and women who took part in the atonement, those who are one with the fathersonholyGhost?

[onefour1]

God is also a being who knows the end from the beginning. He knew full well that Adam and Eve would transgress his law and fall. So, why did God place Adam and Eve in the position to fall knowing full well that they would? The reason is because going through this mortal life was and always has been the way to progress from a lesser intelligence to a higher intelligence. God in his infinite wisdom allowed each of us to choose to come to a mortal life so that we could learn good and evil and become like God:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Satan's plan was to force us all to be good beings. But God rejected that plan because unless man chooses to be a good being in and of himself, he will never become like God. Nobody forces God to be good and never has. God chooses to be a good being in and of himself. We too must learn to choose good over evil in the face of evil to become a good being like God. Free will is critical to the plan of salvation and happiness. This mortal life is a necessity for us to learn good and evil and to learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. Only in this way can we become like God to overcome the evil and always choose the good of our own free will and choice.

God knowing that we need to experience good along with evil so that we can learn to prize the good and reject the evil. Yes, some of us take the opposite path and prize evil more than good. But that was a choice that each spirit child of God made. They wanted the opportunity to progress and become like God. Obtaining a knowledge of good and evil allows us to become more like God and by overcoming evil we can become strong and like God. God knew way before hand that Adam and Eve would transgress and fall. God even set up the situation in the garden by allowing Satan and his minions to come to this earth to tempt mankind. He called Jesus before the foundation of this earth to be a Savior so that fallen man could find forgiveness of sin if they would repent and turn unto him. It was all part of the plan and God knew all about it and planned for the fall before the earth ever was by calling and ordaining Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world.

[Obeone]

Children aren’t born in the millennium.

There will be more children born in the Millennium than in all previous centuries since the fall combined.

D&C 45:
56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

[Obeone]

Where does it say angels have sex?

Terrestrial Adam and Eve couldn’t bear children until condescending into the temporal Telestial sphere (Book of Mormon 101)

That is incorrect. You are confusing "state" and "kingdom".
The earth will be in terrestrial state, but it will become a celestial kingdom after it is resurrected.

In the Terrestrial kingdom there is no procreation. But in a terrestrial state of the earth, there is.

Adam and Eve were perfectly capable of procreation in the garden had they resisted the temptation as the Father commanded them. Then the world would have began in a Millennial state, as millions of worlds have done before.

[onefour1]

God could not bring about the fall by commanding Adam and Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit. In order for the fall to come about, man would have to transgress the commandment of God. God knew that Adam and Eve were innocent and didn't know good from evil and had their own weaknesses. He allowed the devil to tempt them knowing full well they would fall. God even placed them in that position knowing full well what the outcome would be. Adam and Eve repented of the transgression and through the atonement of Jesus Christ they were forgiven. They have been seen in the Celestial Kingdom by Joseph Smith. God knew and provided for a Savior before the foundation of this earth because he knew man would fall. But he went through with it anyway because that was all part of the plan.

[Obeone]

2 Nephi 2
And they would have had no children [had they not condescended]

Yes. This is one of the unfortunate subtleties in the Book of Mormon. It is technically correct but highly misleading.

But taken in context with the rest of the scriptures it is sufficiently plain.

Even as it stands: "WOULD" means choice. "COULD" means physical ability.

The passage says: "they WOULD have had no children."
If it said "they COULD have had no children," it would have been a lie.

Why?

Because they COULD, but WOULD not. For which they were cursed.

[Obeone]

In the temple video Satan mentioned to God that he was simply doing what had been done in other worlds. Perhaps they were commanded both but didn't wait till the proper time to be given permission to eat and therefore keep both commands. Instead of asking how to fulfill both they sought their own way.

Perhaps.

Also, notice, the devil said: "If thou cursest me for doing the same thing that was done in other worlds..."

Think of this for a moment. It is obvious that Satan tempted Adams in other worlds before. If in those worlds (millions of them) he was cursed every time (millions of times), why is he surprised now?

The truth seems to be that he was not cursed before, because though he tempted their Adam's it did not produce a fall because they rejected his temptation.

This earth seems to be the first one where Satan's temptation produced a fall, hence HERE he was cursed for the first time. Hence his complaining.

Thus of millions of worlds, this earth seems to be the first one that fell.

Those other earths began and continued in terrestrial, millennial state, precisely as God commanded them.

This proves again that there was a better way, had Adam listened to the Father.

[Obeone]

Ok, so scripturally, we can conclude two things:

1. While in the garden of Eden before their fall, Adam and Even would have no children.
2. During the Millennium, people will multiply and wax strong. They will have children.

1. They could have, but they would not, because they were deceived.
2. True.

[Joan7]

I disagree with you, for did not God give Abraham a seemingly impossible command. He was told to sacrifice his son. Abraham was willing, then an angel stop him. This commandment was clearly in opposition to the commandment not to kill.
In Nephi's case, he was not stopped from taking a life.
It is my suggestion that we do not understand God's ways enough to suggest that Adam didn't need to partake of the fruit.

God does not contradict Himself.

In case of Abraham you have sequential commandments, with latter canceling the former.

You cannot transgress a commandment that has been revoked.

In case of Adam they were concurrent commandments. Both were simultaneously in force.

God does not, and cannot, give self-contradictory commandments, that is commandments that are simultaneous and contradictory to each other, or He would cease to be God.

Whether Adam would have been commanded to eat of the fruit at a later time: possible. But he definitely did not have to transgress ANY of the commandments of God.

Thus there was a better way for him in the garden, had he listened to the Father more than to his fallen wife and the devil.

What evidence do you have that God revoked a commandment? It seems to me that you are not privy to what God was doing, or by what laws He is operating, but are just guessing. His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. I think that scriptural counsel provides a good reason to quit trying to categorize the reasons and laws by which Father governs the universe.

[Baurak Ale]

Ok, so scripturally, we can conclude two things:

1. While in the garden of Eden before their fall, Adam and Even would have no children.
2. During the Millennium, people will multiply and wax strong. They will have children.

1. They could have, but they would not, because they were deceived.
2. True.

1. False; they could have had no seed without blood:

Moses 5:10 – 11:

10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

Adam and Eve entering and exiting the Garden is an allegory meant to be presented as part of an ordinance with certain explanations attached. Don’t get fixated on the devil being surprised or this or that other intonation of acting; it’s not all meant to convey what actually happened back at the start. Adam and Eve are of course literal people who got the human machine rolling on this world. But a world that does not present sufficient opposition in the form of temptation and evil cannot produce gods, which is Jehovah’s work.

2. True.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

Believing there was no other way was not the reason why Adam fell.

Adam fell because of pride.

In a way you are right.

Adam fell because he believed a lie that there was no other way that men might be, and because he chose his fallen wife over God, for which he was cursed with death and fall, and his posterity with him.

A lesson in what not to do.

His wife believed a lie that there was no other way for her to open her eyes and to know good and evil.

If they resisted the temptation sufficiently, their eyes would have been opened without transgression, and they would have had posterity without a fall, precisely as God commanded them.

I found an interesting quote ages ago. I think the name of the book was "Stranger at the Pentagon". Supposedly an ET (who looked like us) visited the pentagon and White House. One of the messages relayed to man was:

“There is life on many other planets of which people on Earth know nothing. There are more solar systems for which man has not even given God credit. There are many beings that have never transgressed the perfect laws of God. Man does not possess the right to condemn the whole of God’s creation because he himself has broken the perfect laws of God through disobedience.”

[Obeone]

What evidence do you have that God revoked a commandment?

Is this a good enough evidence for you?

Gen. 22
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[Sarah]

What evidence do you have that God revoked a commandment?

Is this a good enough evidence for you?

Gen. 22
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

But assuming Abraham had the commandment taught to him that he should not kill, at the time of him sacrificing Issac he would have been breaking that commandment in order to obey the other. I know you're going to say it was subsequent instead of simultaneous, but nonetheless it is a good example of why we should not put bounds on what God can do, especially as far as commandments go. If we learn anything from his behavior towards us, it is that anything is okay as long as it is motivated by love and approved by him.

[Obeone]

1. False; they could have had no seed without blood:

That contradicts the commandment that God gave them, and therefore is false.
They COULD have had seed without the fall, because that is EXACTLY what God commanded them to do, and He does not give impossible commandments, or He would cease to be God.

Moses 5:10 -11:

10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

The same analysis applies here:
"we never should have had seed" is not the same "we never COULD have had seed."
What is the difference?
One is a lie, and the other is not.
"Should have" means choice. "Could have" means physical ability.

Furthermore
I think you would agree that all scriptures must be taken in context with all the other words of God.

So if you take Adam and Eve's words in context they actually say:

Moses 5:10 – 11 in context
"10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for [despite] of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: [We were so disobedient and foolish, that] Were it not for our transgression [which forced us to learn obedience through a punishment of a curse] we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. [For there verily was a better way for us in the garden were we willing to listen to God more than to the devil]."

Next

But a world that does not present sufficient opposition in the form of temptation and evil cannot produce gods, which is Jehovah’s work.

What will you then do with those in the Millennium? They will live in a "paradisaical glory," without ever knowing the lone and dreary world, and they will grow up "without sin unto salvation."

The truth is, one does not have to fall to experience a fullness of opposition. It can be found in ANY world. Father experienced greater opposition than Jesus, yet he did not live in a fallen world, for example.

They in the Millennium will have all the opposition they need without a fallen world. So also could have Adam, had he listened to the Father.

[Obeone]

I found an interesting quote ages ago. I think the name of the book was "Stranger at the Pentagon". Supposedly an ET (who looked like us) visited the pentagon and White House. One of the messages relayed to man was:

“There is life on many other planets of which people on Earth know nothing. There are more solar systems for which man has not even given God credit. There are many beings that have never transgressed the perfect laws of God. Man does not possess the right to condemn the whole of God’s creation because he himself has broken the perfect laws of God through disobedience.”

Yes, I have heard that too, and I believe it.

[Obeone]

But assuming Abraham had the commandment taught to him that he should not kill, at the time of him sacrificing Issac he would have been breaking that commandment in order to obey the other. I know you're going to say it was subsequent instead of simultaneous, but nonetheless it is a good example of why we should not put bounds on what God can do, especially as far as commandments go. If we learn anything from his behavior towards us, it is that anything is okay as long as it is motivated by love and approved by him.

God is bound by a single law: non-self-contradiction. He CANNOT lie or contradict Himself, or He would cease to be God.

A commandment can be revoked by a subsequent commandment, but He cannot give to opposite commandments at the same time and remain a God.

We know that commandment not to partake of the forbidden fruit was NOT revoked, or Adam would not have been cursed for transgressing it.

It was in full force.

[Peeps]

The Fall of Adam, an Ancient Lie, and Redemption of Zion

I think these three are closely linked.

How?

The Fall of Adam was caused by an ancient lie.

What lie?

That “there was no other way” for him in the garden but to transgress.

Why is that a lie?

Proof:

1. God does not give impossible commandments (1 Nephi 3:7)
2. God commanded Adam and Eve to have children AND not to partake of the forbidden fruit. Which means:
3. They COULD do it. See point (1).

End of proof.

And redemption of Zion?

Zion cannot be redeemed from the fall while believing the very lie that caused its fall in the first place.

It makes a lot of sense to me that when Adam visits the Church in Adam-ondi-Ahman, he will end this lie that has been with us for too long.

Then Zion will be redeemed and New Jerusalem built.

The Book of Mormon indicates that partaking of the fruit was necessary, if memory serves, but I believe the book of Mormon is in error on this point.

Also, if God wanted Adam and Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit, it means God wants us to be disobedient to His commandments. If that were true, everything would unravel.

You are right, except the Book of Mormon is technically correct (though perhaps imperfect in the delivery on this point). Partaking of the forbidden fruit was unnecessary.

Those passages from Lehi and Eve are interpreted incorrectly out of context with the rest of the scriptures.

But I completely agree with you: if you suppose a God who gives self-contradictory commandments, everything does unravel.

I believe we had already fallen in the preexistence. Thirds means 3 parts, so if one third knowingly followed Lucifer/satan into rebellion, and one third remained in Heaven because they chose to keep their first estate, then we are probably the third that all got deceived just like Eve, by the lie that we would become like the LORD God if we entered mortality.

Abraham 3 even says that we willingly traded our first estate to come to earth because we thought we could get something better.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God (this was Lucifer, IMO, who wanted to be like God by exalting himself like it says in Isaiah ch. 14), and he said unto those who were with him (the knowingly rebellious third): We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
(this was probably the lie, for Jude 16 says "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Chains in this instance, are defined in Strong's as "ligament of the body." That makes all of us like the younger son who wanted his inheritance early, and went out and spent it on riotous living, Jesus Christ is the "fatted calf," and the Father is the one waiting by the window in the parable. https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jde ... nc_1167006 )

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man (Jesus Christ): Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.


That got us cast down into the lowest parts of the earth, because that is where we came from before being born, according to Psalms 139.

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

We were the stones of fire in Ezekiel 28 in the preexistence. Psalms 104 says:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 WHO MAKETH HIS ANGELS SPIRITS; HIS MINISTERS A FLAMING FIRE..."

We apparently did not want to be spirits, nor His ministers of flaming fire. We wanted to have flesh bodies instead, and that is what got us kicked out of Heaven.

viewtopic.php?p=1271956#p1271956

So partaking the forbidden fruit was something that we all had already done in the preexistence by choosing to have a flesh body. That was the forbidden fruit, so it just had to play out in the flesh. That is why the serpent was allowed to be in the Garden, along with the Tree of Knowledge.

[TheDuke]

I think we have had this discussion of "commandments" in the past. I don't really think that the Lord spoke to Adam as just commandments, i.e. do this. Adam walked with god. I think the word "commandment' comes along much later. More like the Lord told Adam what to do, and the consequences. One, if he took the fruit he would surely die.............. the other he could live forever. Adam had to choose. But Adam didn't really, Eve chose and Adam followed along to obey the other commandments (be with Eve, have children, etc....). Not pointing the finger at Eve BTW, perhaps she was the one to simply make the choice. I do not believe there was any other way. Waiting it out does not seem to have been an option.

Also, I do not know what state Adam and Eve really were in, in the garden. We are not told. There are some elements of no death (but the tree of life could be the key to that, not celestial or terrestrial glory or bodies), but we are not told if it was any specific state. We learn in the temple that the garden was "like" a terrestrial place, but we don't even know what that means.

It does not say that the earth will be terrestrial during the millennium. It does not say people will live a 1000 years again, get back perfect Adam-ish DNA or any of that. It simply says Satan will be bound and it will be more like a terrestrial world due to lack of Satan. As shown people will be born and die, though death doesn't seem to have much sting. Also, JS says not all people in the millennium will be Christians, sure they will/may know Jesus lives and returned but they are not all followers. Again what we know is Satan is bound, not that the world is some other entity. People still need to come here and do what they have always done and learn to live in a telestial world, just a bit better one that isn't run by Satan. Not sure where Alexander and others get some of the way out stuff about the millennium? Not from bible (they think rapture) focused Christians and not JS or BY et al...

[Sarah]

But assuming Abraham had the commandment taught to him that he should not kill, at the time of him sacrificing Issac he would have been breaking that commandment in order to obey the other. I know you're going to say it was subsequent instead of simultaneous, but nonetheless it is a good example of why we should not put bounds on what God can do, especially as far as commandments go. If we learn anything from his behavior towards us, it is that anything is okay as long as it is motivated by love and approved by him.

God is bound by a single law: non-self-contradiction. He CANNOT lie or contradict Himself, or He would cease to be God.

A commandment can be revoked by a subsequent commandment, but He cannot give to opposite commandments at the same time and remain a God.

We know that commandment not to partake of the forbidden fruit was NOT revoked, or Adam would not have been cursed for transgressing it.

It was in full force.

But at the time Abraham attempted to sacrifice Isaac, the command to not kill had not been revoked. It was only after he showed he was willing to disobey that previous commandment that the Lord told him to stop.

[Obeone]

I believe we had already fallen in the preexistence. Thirds means 3 parts, so if one third knowingly followed Lucifer/satan into rebellion, and one third remained in Heaven because they chose to keep their first estate, then we are probably the third that all got deceived just like Eve, by the lie that we would become like the LORD God if we entered mortality.

Abraham 3 even says that we willingly traded our first estate to come to earth because we thought we could get something better.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God (this was Lucifer, IMO, who wanted to be like God by exalting himself like it says in Isaiah ch. 14), and he said unto those who were with him (the knowingly rebellious third): We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
(this was probably the lie, for Jude 16 says "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Chains in this instance, are defined in Strong's as "ligament of the body." That makes all of us like the younger son who wanted his inheritance early, and went out and spent it on riotous living, Jesus Christ is the "fatted calf," and the Father is the one waiting by the window in the parable. https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jde ... nc_1167006 )

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man (Jesus Christ): Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.


That got us cast down into the lowest parts of the earth, because that is where we came from before being born, according to Psalms 139.

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

We were the stones of fire in Ezekiel 28 in the preexistence. Psalms 104 says:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 WHO MAKETH HIS ANGELS SPIRITS; HIS MINISTERS A FLAMING FIRE..."

We apparently did not want to be spirits, nor His ministers of flaming fire. We wanted to have flesh bodies instead, and that is what got us kicked out of Heaven.

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So partaking the forbidden fruit was something that we all had already done in the preexistence by choosing to have a flesh body. That was the forbidden fruit, so it just had to play out in the flesh. That is why the serpent was allowed to be in the Garden, along with the Tree of Knowledge.

Friend, you are fully inverted in your understanding. The one "that was like unto God" was Christ, not Lucifer.

Need I say more?