The One Mighty and Strong: too much idolizing or not enough idolizing done for this servant?

[Bronco73idi]

Very well thought out, did your self study of the scriptures bring you to these conclusions?

I don’t agree with your thoughts on Daniel, for two reasons.

#1

Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

There is a time period inserted in verse 12 before verse 13 where the son of man rules, A season and a time.

Antichrist will be slain, then “a season and a time” or in other words “silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.” and then 7 angels of the 7th seal will be fulfilled.

#2

In the book of Daniel and Revelation the lord is peace. What does Esaias or the lord himself say?

Isaiah 28
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

The Lord’s words tell us what his strange work and act will be. His work is his spirit that will make men and women act, be it good or evil.

Luke 12
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

I see in other threads that you don’t believe in a Davidic servant, I don’t think it matters. I’m a lion, how do I know, the lord told me and I’m a Leo .

Should we not all be lions?

My conclusions are drawn from some self study of scripture, but lots and lots of hours of Bible studies, with scholars like Chuck Missler. I think his bible studies are phenomenonal, and build a good, solid foundation for Biblical knowledge (though I disagree with him on the pretribulation rapture). He is dead now, but there are many of his indepth lessons up on YouTube.

The main thing is to not be deceived by the end days false prophet and Antichrist. And most importantly, to not be like an Esau, and take the mark of the beast in order to survive in this world, instead of focusing on eternal inheritance. Or maybe take it out of fear of losing their life. The fearful are the very first to go into the lake of fire according to Revelation 21:8.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I find it ironic that many Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah during His earthly ministry because they wanted a Second Coming type warrior Christ, and now many LDS will not accept that He was/is the Davidic Servant during His earthly ministry. Same Jesus, different roles.

You need to keep in mind John 1:1 to understand the Ancient of Days in Daniel and how this correlates to Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not...

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So the Word becomes flesh, separated from God the Father, to dwell among men, to redeem mankind from sin, and to break the chains of death. After He accomplishes this mission, He ascends back to the Father, but this time in His flesh body. Remember when He told Mary to 'touch me not" after He was resurrected in John 20:17?

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

When He ascends, that is when He received power and authority from the Father, or the Ancient of Days.

I don't know if you noticed my reply to Shawn Henry re:Ezekiel 34. I said:

"Ezekiel 34:23-24 is talking about the resurrected Biblical King David. That is after the Second Coming during the Millenial Reign of Jesus Christ in Zion/ New Jerusalem...."

So I do believe in the Davidic Servant, I just believe it will literally be the resurrected King David, not some other person.

I love Leos! They are so positive, and usually happy! My youngest daughter is a Leo.

It has been a couple of days since I have replied. I was hoping your thoughts were from your personal revelation.

I’m not a respecter of men, I have a low opinion of these doom and gloom bandwagon guys. I don’t know Mr. Missler but from the quick search I found some his thoughts were from books he read and plagiarized. He did the right thing when it was brought to his attention which is good.

I’ll give you an example of personal revelation. I was interested to know and figure out end day prophecy. I was inspired to study Daniel and not revelation. This I read Daniel starting in chapter 1. Needless to say the thoughts of the first 3 dreams were fresh in my mind. My coworker always mocked religion, his name was Rick Woodruff. One day he gave me an example of why he mocked religion. “My dad swore world war 2 is somewhere in the Bible but he could never find it!” (Shaking his head). I gave that a thought and inquired in the lord. Within a week I was in the shower and I got my answer, The world wars were the 3 horns that rose up and got plucked out from the small diverse little horn of the 4th Beast. I told him and he just . About 6 months later he told me his great great grandfather was Wilford Woodruff and he was the president of my church. He was raised Seventh Day Adventist. I told him, he was an excellent scribe, He . I showed him how Wilford fulfilled prophecy when he said “my god, what have I done” and Jospeh F Smith said “you have made a covenant” blah blah blah, Isaiah 28:15.

I haven’t found anywhere or anyone who says the 3 horns are Austria, Germany and Italy.

So I say that is personal revelation from the lord.

Some of my response was personal revelation, in real time, as I am writing it. For example, the Ancient of Days in Daniel, being correlated to John 1:1-14, Matthew 28:18, and John 20:17, was an example of personal revelation, not some recollection of some particular bible study I watched in the past.

I believe your personal revelation re: Austria, Germany, and Italy being the 3 horns is spot on, it resonates as truth to me.

John 1 is about Jesus, not ancient of days. It’s about Jesus and his witnesses. It’s interesting that he said

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

So why do we need David to be resurrected? No one is worthy to be “the man” as Nathan said?

Are you LDS? Jospeh Smith said 2 things about Daniel 7, he told us Ancient of Days is Adam and he said change the word beast to kingdom.

Since Daniel 7 was still unfolding he couldn’t say anymore.

[Peeps]

My conclusions are drawn from some self study of scripture, but lots and lots of hours of Bible studies, with scholars like Chuck Missler. I think his bible studies are phenomenonal, and build a good, solid foundation for Biblical knowledge (though I disagree with him on the pretribulation rapture). He is dead now, but there are many of his indepth lessons up on YouTube.

The main thing is to not be deceived by the end days false prophet and Antichrist. And most importantly, to not be like an Esau, and take the mark of the beast in order to survive in this world, instead of focusing on eternal inheritance. Or maybe take it out of fear of losing their life. The fearful are the very first to go into the lake of fire according to Revelation 21:8.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I find it ironic that many Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah during His earthly ministry because they wanted a Second Coming type warrior Christ, and now many LDS will not accept that He was/is the Davidic Servant during His earthly ministry. Same Jesus, different roles.

You need to keep in mind John 1:1 to understand the Ancient of Days in Daniel and how this correlates to Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not...

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So the Word becomes flesh, separated from God the Father, to dwell among men, to redeem mankind from sin, and to break the chains of death. After He accomplishes this mission, He ascends back to the Father, but this time in His flesh body. Remember when He told Mary to 'touch me not" after He was resurrected in John 20:17?

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

When He ascends, that is when He received power and authority from the Father, or the Ancient of Days.

I don't know if you noticed my reply to Shawn Henry re:Ezekiel 34. I said:

"Ezekiel 34:23-24 is talking about the resurrected Biblical King David. That is after the Second Coming during the Millenial Reign of Jesus Christ in Zion/ New Jerusalem...."

So I do believe in the Davidic Servant, I just believe it will literally be the resurrected King David, not some other person.

I love Leos! They are so positive, and usually happy! My youngest daughter is a Leo.

It has been a couple of days since I have replied. I was hoping your thoughts were from your personal revelation.

I’m not a respecter of men, I have a low opinion of these doom and gloom bandwagon guys. I don’t know Mr. Missler but from the quick search I found some his thoughts were from books he read and plagiarized. He did the right thing when it was brought to his attention which is good.

I’ll give you an example of personal revelation. I was interested to know and figure out end day prophecy. I was inspired to study Daniel and not revelation. This I read Daniel starting in chapter 1. Needless to say the thoughts of the first 3 dreams were fresh in my mind. My coworker always mocked religion, his name was Rick Woodruff. One day he gave me an example of why he mocked religion. “My dad swore world war 2 is somewhere in the Bible but he could never find it!” (Shaking his head). I gave that a thought and inquired in the lord. Within a week I was in the shower and I got my answer, The world wars were the 3 horns that rose up and got plucked out from the small diverse little horn of the 4th Beast. I told him and he just . About 6 months later he told me his great great grandfather was Wilford Woodruff and he was the president of my church. He was raised Seventh Day Adventist. I told him, he was an excellent scribe, He . I showed him how Wilford fulfilled prophecy when he said “my god, what have I done” and Jospeh F Smith said “you have made a covenant” blah blah blah, Isaiah 28:15.

I haven’t found anywhere or anyone who says the 3 horns are Austria, Germany and Italy.

So I say that is personal revelation from the lord.

Some of my response was personal revelation, in real time, as I am writing it. For example, the Ancient of Days in Daniel, being correlated to John 1:1-14, Matthew 28:18, and John 20:17, was an example of personal revelation, not some recollection of some particular bible study I watched in the past.

I believe your personal revelation re: Austria, Germany, and Italy being the 3 horns is spot on, it resonates as truth to me.

John 1 is about Jesus, not ancient of days. It’s about Jesus and his witnesses. It’s interesting that he said

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

So why do we need David to be resurrected? No one is worthy to be “the man” as Nathan said?

Are you LDS? Jospeh Smith said 2 things about Daniel 7, he told us Ancient of Days is Adam and he said change the word beast to kingdom.

Since Daniel 7 was still unfolding he couldn’t say anymore.

John 1:1 was about the Father (the Ancient of Days) and the Son (the Word), being One entity. Then John 1:14 tells that the Word part of the Father became flesh, becoming separated, to dwell among men. This fulfills Isaiah 7:14--

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. which Matthew 1:23 confirms by saying Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being. interpreted is, God with us.

So you are right, it is about Jesus, and Him taking on flesh body to become the ONLY Begotten Son of the Father. The rest of us have to become sons by adoption, which is the receiving power to become sons of God. This happens when we are spiritually reborn, by believing that Jesus Christ is our Savior.

After He was resurrected in John 20:17, when He tells Mary to not touch Him, because He has not yet ascended to the Father. He then ascends to the Father to become glorified in His flesh body, and to get power from the Father to share with the rest of us, as it says in Philippians 3:21:

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

So He returns from the Father triumphantly to appear to His disciples in Matthew 28:18:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


David becomes resurrected to be our Prince under Jesus Christ, our King, in the Millenial Kingdom. We all want to be resurrected, that was the whole point of the Atonement.

I was a member of the LDS Church until I discovered that Joseph Smith's view of the Godhead changed drastically, particularly in 1842-44. I believe he was mostly correct in his view points described in "Lectures on Faith" 5.2, which were published in 1835 as the Doctrine portion of The Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. The Lectures on Faith are seven lessons on theology delivered by the presiding officers of the Church to the School of the Elders at Kirtland, Ohio. Lecture 5.2:

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.
https://lecturesonfaith.com/5/

How the Doctrine & Covenants has changed over the years:
https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/7/11 ... nts-curtis

After Joseph became a Master Mason-Master Mahon, he started teaching heretical doctrines like the King Follet Discourse, the Adam-God theory, Section 130+ of the D&C, etc.

Saying that Adam was the Ancient of Days in Daniel, and that Jesus Christ received His power and authority from Adam, is exactly backwards. Jesus Christ came to redeem Adam from his fallen state, and to rescue him from death.

Romans 5:14-17:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

And 1 Corinthians 15:21-22
For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

[Bronco73idi]

It has been a couple of days since I have replied. I was hoping your thoughts were from your personal revelation.

I’m not a respecter of men, I have a low opinion of these doom and gloom bandwagon guys. I don’t know Mr. Missler but from the quick search I found some his thoughts were from books he read and plagiarized. He did the right thing when it was brought to his attention which is good.

I’ll give you an example of personal revelation. I was interested to know and figure out end day prophecy. I was inspired to study Daniel and not revelation. This I read Daniel starting in chapter 1. Needless to say the thoughts of the first 3 dreams were fresh in my mind. My coworker always mocked religion, his name was Rick Woodruff. One day he gave me an example of why he mocked religion. “My dad swore world war 2 is somewhere in the Bible but he could never find it!” (Shaking his head). I gave that a thought and inquired in the lord. Within a week I was in the shower and I got my answer, The world wars were the 3 horns that rose up and got plucked out from the small diverse little horn of the 4th Beast. I told him and he just . About 6 months later he told me his great great grandfather was Wilford Woodruff and he was the president of my church. He was raised Seventh Day Adventist. I told him, he was an excellent scribe, He . I showed him how Wilford fulfilled prophecy when he said “my god, what have I done” and Jospeh F Smith said “you have made a covenant” blah blah blah, Isaiah 28:15.

I haven’t found anywhere or anyone who says the 3 horns are Austria, Germany and Italy.

So I say that is personal revelation from the lord.

Some of my response was personal revelation, in real time, as I am writing it. For example, the Ancient of Days in Daniel, being correlated to John 1:1-14, Matthew 28:18, and John 20:17, was an example of personal revelation, not some recollection of some particular bible study I watched in the past.

I believe your personal revelation re: Austria, Germany, and Italy being the 3 horns is spot on, it resonates as truth to me.

John 1 is about Jesus, not ancient of days. It’s about Jesus and his witnesses. It’s interesting that he said

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

So why do we need David to be resurrected? No one is worthy to be “the man” as Nathan said?

Are you LDS? Jospeh Smith said 2 things about Daniel 7, he told us Ancient of Days is Adam and he said change the word beast to kingdom.

Since Daniel 7 was still unfolding he couldn’t say anymore.

John 1:1 was about the Father (the Ancient of Days) and the Son (the Word), being One entity. Then John 1:14 tells that the Word part of the Father became flesh, becoming separated, to dwell among men. This fulfills Isaiah 7:14--

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. which Matthew 1:23 confirms by saying Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being. interpreted is, God with us.

So you are right, it is about Jesus, and Him taking on flesh body to become the ONLY Begotten Son of the Father. The rest of us have to become sons by adoption, which is the receiving power to become sons of God. This happens when we are spiritually reborn, by believing that Jesus Christ is our Savior.

After He was resurrected in John 20:17, when He tells Mary to not touch Him, because He has not yet ascended to the Father. He then ascends to the Father to become glorified in His flesh body, and to get power from the Father to share with the rest of us, as it says in Philippians 3:21:

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

So He returns from the Father triumphantly to appear to His disciples in Matthew 28:18:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


David becomes resurrected to be our Prince under Jesus Christ, our King, in the Millenial Kingdom. We all want to be resurrected, that was the whole point of the Atonement.

I was a member of the LDS Church until I discovered that Joseph Smith's view of the Godhead changed drastically, particularly in 1842-44. I believe he was mostly correct in his view points described in "Lectures on Faith" 5.2, which were published in 1835 as the Doctrine portion of The Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. The Lectures on Faith are seven lessons on theology delivered by the presiding officers of the Church to the School of the Elders at Kirtland, Ohio. Lecture 5.2:

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.
https://lecturesonfaith.com/5/

How the Doctrine & Covenants has changed over the years:
https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/7/11 ... nts-curtis

After Joseph became a Master Mason-Master Mahon, he started teaching heretical doctrines like the King Follet Discourse, the Adam-God theory, Section 130+ of the D&C, etc.

Saying that Adam was the Ancient of Days in Daniel, and that Jesus Christ received His power and authority from Adam, is exactly backwards. Jesus Christ came to redeem Adam from his fallen state, and to rescue him from death.

Romans 5:14-17:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

And 1 Corinthians 15:21-22
For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

viewtopic.php?t=67405

If he changed his opinion then he is definitely a false prophet! He may have just clarified it.

Learned men like Robert Smith and Avraham Gileadi understand that to fulfill the book of Isaiah you need a church in this last dispensation, one with authority and power. They also understand the Isaiah 28:15-22 will be fulfilled through this church.

I know that the LDS church is the church that Isaiah has prophesied about. You find yourself a church that can fulfilled Isaiah and hold on.