What is your opinion about the current apostles?

[marc]

What is your opinion about the current apostles?

Fallible men over whom I can extend a cloak of charity.

[InfoWarrior82]

15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I ignore most of them, because they have little to say. Uchtdorf is probably the best speaker although he has made some stupid political choices. Holland is the one I like the most out of them. Bednar is the one I like the least, he seems to be an operator. Gong seems to be heavily attached to the fringes of globalism. I don't have a strong opinion on the others individually other than to say that they seem to be following the world.

On the rare occasions I watch General Conference I'd probably check out Uchtdorf and Holland. I can't be doing with most of the rest.

The one talk from Holland that really got to me was where he said that if the BoM is true, then it must all be true. That is completely and utterly false.

[FrankOne]

I have no facts to base my belief on but ...I believe that there are a few or even several that quietly oppose what RMN is doing. I strongly believe that the church will divide, with some apostles 'defecting' and opposing RMN. I base my speculations on peoples dreams/visions/etc , which may or may not be accurate at all....but...they make sense to me from what i am now seeing happen.

I am impatient and I wish this would speed up a bit. I really would like to see the end of this drawn out B movie. Davidic Servant? Joseph Smith returning somehow? Any change would be a good change. Can someone please fast forward this? thanks in advance.

[blitzinstripes]

My opinion is there's going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth in SLC when the Servant cleanses the temple and puts the Lord's house back in order. I pray I live to see that day and to see the redemption of Zion and the coming of the Lord.

[FrankOne]

Well, we know for certain that they have an incredible hatred for mankind in general. Otherwise they would not be promoting the clot shot.

We know that they are okay for funding multiple abortions of complete strangers. As Uchtdorf made clear.

We know that they believe that Lucifer had the best plan. This Luciferian plan is the basis for the complete church operation. Mandatory this and that and total compliance of Bishops and Stake Presidents in perpetuating the big lie or be removed from your position. Truth telling is expressly prohibited. Profits above prophets.

We know that they not only approve of, but celebrate faggotry by holding large parades which are televised and in the news papers.

We know that it has been over a hundred years since a Q15 related something new that "Thus saith the Lord."

We know that their covid restrictions exceed that of the government. We know that even the dumbest arse knows more about covid that Dr Nelson. His complete incompetence is exceptional.

We know that they run the church quite different than Jesus.

We know that they have partnered with numerous purely satanic organizations in order to make satan the ruler of the new world order. Secret Clergy Response Team, UN, WEF, etc.

We know that they donate millions of dollars to burn down Wendys and create chaos in the street. BLM

We know that they donate millions to subversive groups such as the NAACP.

We know that they have instructed their wholly owned TV station and news broadcasting organizations to promote proven lies and to delete any comments that contain truth.

One might just say typical satanists.

the world in it's darkest hour, revealing itself like a black hole in front of the sun. Taking in whatever it can while the day continues. Weak men with weak minds, prostrating themselves like weeping imbeciles begging for favor. Salvation? Who calls for it? Salvation from what? The world labels salvation as a medication which numbs the pain of error. To be saved in sin .... to be covered in mire to hide from the reality of the light of Christ.

[Niemand]

I have no facts to base my belief on but ...I believe that there are a few or even several that quietly oppose what RMN is doing. I strongly believe that the church will divide, with some apostles 'defecting' and opposing RMN. I base my speculations on peoples dreams/visions/etc , which may or may not be accurate at all....but...they make sense to me from what i am now seeing happen.

I think there are several facts that one could base such a thing on.

Firstly, all of this "moving the deckchairs around the Titanic", or renaming and moving stuff around... that is actually a logistical hassle to those who have to do it. For example, when he had MoTab renamed, that would have caused quiet resentment since they had to rename everything in their promotional material, and he helped destroy their brand recognition.

Secondly, these men date to the times of Monson and Hinckley, if not further back. Therefore they had some loyalty to those past presidents, and again, doing 180° turn on a lot of things, like packing in the "I'm a Mormon" programme, removing temple murals and so on... does not breed goodwill, although they may not voice it. Anyone who knows the recent history of the church knows that the "Mormon" thing was nothing new, but an idée fixe of RMN, dating back thirty years, and which got a public slapdown by GBH in General Conference. Nelson still seems to be trying to outcompete Hinckley in the temple building stakes, but is failing due to the world intervening.

Thirdly, I think even though these men have supported a personality cult to some extent at the top of the church, most recent presidents have had milder mannered personalities (even though they could be grumpy). Nelson is more aggressive, forward, and egotistical. I think previous presidents of recent times worked more on a consensus level, discussing things at quorum level whereas Nelson forces through his personal hobbyhorses.

[JLHPROF]

I have no facts to base my belief on but ...I believe that there are a few or even several that quietly oppose what RMN is doing. I strongly believe that the church will divide, with some apostles 'defecting' and opposing RMN. I base my speculations on peoples dreams/visions/etc , which may or may not be accurate at all....but...they make sense to me from what i am now seeing happen.

I think there are several facts that one could base such a thing on.

Firstly, all of this "moving the deckchairs around the Titanic", or renaming and moving stuff around... that is actually a logistical hassle to those who have to do it. For example, when he had MoTab renamed, that would have caused quiet resentment since they had to rename everything in their promotional material, and he helped destroy their brand recognition.

Secondly, these men date to the times of Monson and Hinckley, if not further back. Therefore they had some loyalty to those past presidents, and again, doing 180° turn on a lot of things, like packing in the "I'm a Mormon" programme, removing temple murals and so on... does not breed goodwill, although they may not voice it. Anyone who knows the recent history of the church knows that the "Mormon" thing was nothing new, but an idée fixe of RMN, dating back thirty years, and which got a public slapdown by GBH in General Conference. Nelson still seems to be trying to outcompete Hinckley in the temple building stakes, but is failing due to the world intervening.

Thirdly, I think even though these men have supported a personality cult to some extent at the top of the church, most recent presidents have had milder mannered personalities (even though they could be grumpy). Nelson is more aggressive, forward, and egotistical. I think previous presidents of recent times worked more on a consensus level, discussing things at quorum level whereas Nelson forces through his personal hobbyhorses.

It's ok, the next head will undo a lot. When Bednar inevitably becomes head you'll see a lot of Nelson's stuff ditched. Anyone in between them probably won't have time or health to change much.
And that's assuming the OMAS doesn't intervene first and put things back.

[FoundMyEden]

Aside from being businessmen, they do have an agenda. They purposefully suppress patriotism, the Constitution, and freedom in favor of their beloved Lucifer's plan.

They did do a purge of conservatives, after all. Their values are clear.

Perhaps the biggest miracle since the Resurrection, was when all charges against Ammon Bundy were dropped. The church was against him from the beginning. When the US government had a simple choice of admitting that they were all satanists and evil to the core without exception and had committed thousands of felonies or let Ammon go, it was clear who was wielding the power and it was no government. It was God the Almighty. And the church still pisses on him.

The church pisses on him (Ammon Bundy) and he still is in full fellowship. Interesting.

[Fred]

Aside from being businessmen, they do have an agenda. They purposefully suppress patriotism, the Constitution, and freedom in favor of their beloved Lucifer's plan.

They did do a purge of conservatives, after all. Their values are clear.

Perhaps the biggest miracle since the Resurrection, was when all charges against Ammon Bundy were dropped. The church was against him from the beginning. When the US government had a simple choice of admitting that they were all satanists and evil to the core without exception and had committed thousands of felonies or let Ammon go, it was clear who was wielding the power and it was no government. It was God the Almighty. And the church still pisses on him.

The church pisses on him and he still is in full fellowship. Interesting.

That is an interesting point. It's not like they can disfellowship him for his extreme faith. Or because God granted him freedom when the entire United States government was using every means short of nuclear to get rid of him and make an example of anyone foolish enough to believe in freedom. They can't continue to condemn him for having more faith in his little toe than all Q15 combined in their entirety. How can they say anything bad about a person that exhibited strong faith and that faith was rewarded by the Almighty God? And it was witnessed by the entire world.

But they clearly hate him. They condemned his actions from the beginning. Thing is that he was right and they was wrong. They were 100% wrong.

He proved that God exists and is in control. The Q15 have never been able to do that.

He also proved that the church was corrupt and very wrong and had their head up their arse about freedom.

[Niemand]

I have no facts to base my belief on but ...I believe that there are a few or even several that quietly oppose what RMN is doing. I strongly believe that the church will divide, with some apostles 'defecting' and opposing RMN. I base my speculations on peoples dreams/visions/etc , which may or may not be accurate at all....but...they make sense to me from what i am now seeing happen.

I think there are several facts that one could base such a thing on.

Firstly, all of this "moving the deckchairs around the Titanic", or renaming and moving stuff around... that is actually a logistical hassle to those who have to do it. For example, when he had MoTab renamed, that would have caused quiet resentment since they had to rename everything in their promotional material, and he helped destroy their brand recognition.

Secondly, these men date to the times of Monson and Hinckley, if not further back. Therefore they had some loyalty to those past presidents, and again, doing 180° turn on a lot of things, like packing in the "I'm a Mormon" programme, removing temple murals and so on... does not breed goodwill, although they may not voice it. Anyone who knows the recent history of the church knows that the "Mormon" thing was nothing new, but an idée fixe of RMN, dating back thirty years, and which got a public slapdown by GBH in General Conference. Nelson still seems to be trying to outcompete Hinckley in the temple building stakes, but is failing due to the world intervening.

Thirdly, I think even though these men have supported a personality cult to some extent at the top of the church, most recent presidents have had milder mannered personalities (even though they could be grumpy). Nelson is more aggressive, forward, and egotistical. I think previous presidents of recent times worked more on a consensus level, discussing things at quorum level whereas Nelson forces through his personal hobbyhorses.

It's ok, the next head will undo a lot. When Bednar inevitably becomes head you'll see a lot of Nelson's stuff ditched. Anyone in between them probably won't have time or health to change much.
And that's assuming the OMAS doesn't intervene first and put things back.

Hopefully, but some of the damage is already done and can't be undone.

I mentioned the Mormon Tabernacle Choir – the name every man, woman and dog outside the church has ever known them as... now with some clunky name which I even struggle to remember. It takes a certain type of bureaucratic idiocy to do something like that.

As for the "we're not Mormon" thing, that's akin to wokesters changing the name of everything every five minutes... the mock outrage we're supposed to display any time some non-member uses the phrase (and i don't)...

[FoundMyEden]

Aside from being businessmen, they do have an agenda. They purposefully suppress patriotism, the Constitution, and freedom in favor of their beloved Lucifer's plan.

They did do a purge of conservatives, after all. Their values are clear.

Perhaps the biggest miracle since the Resurrection, was when all charges against Ammon Bundy were dropped. The church was against him from the beginning. When the US government had a simple choice of admitting that they were all satanists and evil to the core without exception and had committed thousands of felonies or let Ammon go, it was clear who was wielding the power and it was no government. It was God the Almighty. And the church still pisses on him.

The church pisses on him and he still is in full fellowship. Interesting.

That is an interesting point. It's not like they can disfellowship him for his extreme faith. Or because God granted him freedom when the entire United States government was using every means short of nuclear to get rid of him and make an example of anyone foolish enough to believe in freedom. They can't continue to condemn him for having more faith in his little toe than all Q15 combined in their entirety. How can they say anything bad about a person that exhibited strong faith and that faith was rewarded by the Almighty God? And it was witnessed by the entire world.

But they clearly hate him. They condemned his actions from the beginning. Thing is that he was right and they was wrong. They were 100% wrong.

He proved that God exists and is in control. The Q15 have never been able to do that.

He also proved that the church was corrupt and very wrong and had their head up their arse about freedom.

Right. I’m just surprised he’s not calling out the leadership for their hypocrisy. But then again, if he did that would be the means for excommunication in their eyes.

[Fred]

Aside from being businessmen, they do have an agenda. They purposefully suppress patriotism, the Constitution, and freedom in favor of their beloved Lucifer's plan.

They did do a purge of conservatives, after all. Their values are clear.

Perhaps the biggest miracle since the Resurrection, was when all charges against Ammon Bundy were dropped. The church was against him from the beginning. When the US government had a simple choice of admitting that they were all satanists and evil to the core without exception and had committed thousands of felonies or let Ammon go, it was clear who was wielding the power and it was no government. It was God the Almighty. And the church still pisses on him.

The church pisses on him and he still is in full fellowship. Interesting.

That is an interesting point. It's not like they can disfellowship him for his extreme faith. Or because God granted him freedom when the entire United States government was using every means short of nuclear to get rid of him and make an example of anyone foolish enough to believe in freedom. They can't continue to condemn him for having more faith in his little toe than all Q15 combined in their entirety. How can they say anything bad about a person that exhibited strong faith and that faith was rewarded by the Almighty God? And it was witnessed by the entire world.

But they clearly hate him. They condemned his actions from the beginning. Thing is that he was right and they was wrong. They were 100% wrong.

He proved that God exists and is in control. The Q15 have never been able to do that.

He also proved that the church was corrupt and very wrong and had their head up their arse about freedom.

Right. I’m just surprised he’s not calling out the leadership for their hypocrisy. But then again, if he did that would be the means for excommunication in their eyes.

Ammon is a follower of Christ. He is not out to cause trouble for the church. He came and talked at our local high school. He is trying to be Christlike. He is not a trouble maker. He is running for Governor of Idaho. It is surprising how many people think that he participated in an armed takeover of the wildlife preserve. Bad press caused by the church. The church should be recommending that people become involved in politics.

What good does it do to say that someone should do something? How about being one of the people that do?

[FoundMyEden]

The church pisses on him and he still is in full fellowship. Interesting.

That is an interesting point. It's not like they can disfellowship him for his extreme faith. Or because God granted him freedom when the entire United States government was using every means short of nuclear to get rid of him and make an example of anyone foolish enough to believe in freedom. They can't continue to condemn him for having more faith in his little toe than all Q15 combined in their entirety. How can they say anything bad about a person that exhibited strong faith and that faith was rewarded by the Almighty God? And it was witnessed by the entire world.

But they clearly hate him. They condemned his actions from the beginning. Thing is that he was right and they was wrong. They were 100% wrong.

He proved that God exists and is in control. The Q15 have never been able to do that.

He also proved that the church was corrupt and very wrong and had their head up their arse about freedom.

Right. I’m just surprised he’s not calling out the leadership for their hypocrisy. But then again, if he did that would be the means for excommunication in their eyes.

Ammon is a follower of Christ. He is not out to cause trouble for the church. He came and talked at our local high school. He is trying to be Christlike. He is not a trouble maker. He is running for Governor of Idaho. It is surprising how many people think that he participated in an armed takeover of the wildlife preserve. Bad press caused by the church. The church should be recommending that people become involved in politics.

What good does it do to say that someone should do something? How about being one of the people that do?

I wish him well in Idaho. They need him over there.

[Atrasado]

The FP & Q12's push on the Covid-19 vaccines really opened my eyes on a variety of things.

Isaiah said it well:

56:10 ​His ​​​watchmen​ ​are​ ​​​blind​: they are all ignorant, they ​are​ all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
​​​​​11 ​Yea, ​they are​ ​​​greedy​ dogs ​which​ can never have enough, and they ​are​ ​​​shepherds​ ​that​ cannot understand: they all look to their ​​​own​ way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Jeremiah spoke truth as well:

6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.

Of course, I'm not so sure about the rest of us, too. I think the Lord will give us the leaders we deserve, if we push Him hard enough.

[BenMcCrea]

That not a single one of them is an apostle of Jesus Christ. They are however Mormon apostles.

They are all Apostles of Jesus Christ. They can all claim their line of Apostolic authority back to him.

Whether they are effective or true to the Lord - only they know that.

[Luke]

That not a single one of them is an apostle of Jesus Christ. They are however Mormon apostles.

They are all Apostles of Jesus Christ. They can all claim their line of Apostolic authority back to him.

Whether they are effective or true to the Lord - only they know that.

A true Apostle of Jesus Christ is someone who has seen Him and/or can bear an actual witness of Him.

[Alexander]

Probably mostly good people who have unfortunately gone down the path of vanity and corruption. I don’t think it makes them evil, though.

Is teaching false doctrine considered evil? Is setting themselves up as a light evil? Anything that leads us away from or distracts us from Christ is born of evil.

Joseph taught that “it doesn’t prove that a man is a bad man because he errs in doctrine”.

I’m not defending them, but I don’t believe that they are fully malicious.

“And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.“

[Reluctant Watchman]

Probably mostly good people who have unfortunately gone down the path of vanity and corruption. I don’t think it makes them evil, though.

Is teaching false doctrine considered evil? Is setting themselves up as a light evil? Anything that leads us away from or distracts us from Christ is born of evil.

Joseph taught that “it doesn’t prove that a man is a bad man because he errs in doctrine”.

I’m not defending them, but I don’t believe that they are fully malicious.

“And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.“

This is actually a very interesting section in 3 Nephi. What Christ is speaking of is the foundation that we are to build upon. He is talking about faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the HG. He is talking about how he is the Way to salvation. There are societies and cultures that have taught there are other paths to salvation and that can/should build upon.

I feel the LDS church does have the basic foundation correct. Albeit we rarely teach about the significance of the baptism of fire and the HG. This is the foundation. Then Christ teaches we should “build” upon that foundation. I believe those are a series of lower and higher principles. 10 commandments would certainly be there, so would the Sermon on the Mount. Where the LDS church really begins to deviate, and IMO is “evil”, is the distortion of their understanding of temple laws and ordinances. (A whole host of false doctrine could be included in that as well.)

Temple work has become a work for the dead and not the living. The “endowment” was supposed to be an endowment of knowledge (which isn’t there) which then leads us to the additional “endowment”, that of piercing the veil, a true Second Comforter, Second Anointing experience. All of the feelings and affections of a heavenly society would also be included as that “endowment”. That comes through a true understanding and living of the higher laws, when taught correctly.

[DJB]

Good men, raised in church which allowed the philosophies of men creep in over time and create a culture that is now the go to version of the gospel. No more visions, or miracles, just heart warming stories that teach us to hear God in muffled tones compared to the beginning of the restoration. Keys are still present, just not used much like in days of old. It’s coming to a close as the Latter-days comes to a close and gives birth to the millennium.

[DJB]

That not a single one of them is an apostle of Jesus Christ. They are however Mormon apostles.

They are all Apostles of Jesus Christ. They can all claim their line of Apostolic authority back to him.

Whether they are effective or true to the Lord - only they know that.

A true Apostle of Jesus Christ is someone who has seen Him and/or can bear an actual witness of Him.

The Prophet Joseph said: “Brethren, now you are prepared to be the apostles of Jesus Christ, for you have seen both the Father and the Son and know that they exist and that they are two separate personages.”…

[Mindfields]

That not a single one of them is an apostle of Jesus Christ. They are however Mormon apostles.

They are all Apostles of Jesus Christ. They can all claim their line of Apostolic authority back to him.

Whether they are effective or true to the Lord - only they know that.

I believe that lines of authority is a man made construct. Jesus would personally call his Prophets. The fact that the fifteen call themselves PSR's doesn't make it so and they've only been considered as such more recently.

[Christianlee]

I think most of them are well-educated corporate men who have learned that compliance is more acceptable than questioning the societal status quo of 2022.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I think most of them are well-educated corporate men who have learned that compliance is more acceptable than questioning the societal status quo of 2022.

Acceptable to who, the devil? Remember Captain Moroni and Pahoran... another lesson from the BoM that the LDS org has learned nothing about.

[FoundMyEden]

That not a single one of them is an apostle of Jesus Christ. They are however Mormon apostles.

They are all Apostles of Jesus Christ. They can all claim their line of Apostolic authority back to him.

Whether they are effective or true to the Lord - only they know that.

It seems that this is a common pattern in history…with the Jews and then with the Catholics…now with the Mormons.