Chest pains

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Peeps
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Re: Chest pains

Post by Peeps »

Mamabear wrote: August 30th, 2022, 5:36 pm
Peeps wrote: August 29th, 2022, 10:54 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: August 29th, 2022, 6:41 am
Sunain wrote: August 29th, 2022, 6:33 am
I still have a very strong faith in the gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ. In the past few years, I've seen the guidance of the spirit helping me. I was prompted immediately to avoid this COVID vaccination, even though I am vaccinated for basically everything else, dozens of shots over my lifetime. COVID unvaccinated citizens have been treated very poorly here in Canada but tribulation of the Saints of God in the last days has been prophesied. We are seeing tribulation come in a few unexpected avenues like direct governmental interference and church leaders following the arm of man instead of placing their trust in God.

Those having a “crisis of faith” are having a crisis in putting their faith in the leadership and not the gospel of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, in the last few decades, the church has insisted on the infallibility of the Q15 because they are sustained as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators. Now, many members are seeing that mistrust in the enacted policies of the church. I think Moroni dropping his trumpet is also signifying that heaven has also had enough of misplaced 'allegiances'.
The journey that I’m on right now is trying to figure out what the gospel of Christ actually is. We have mountains of scripture and modern day writings, but which of those writings contain actual truth? Men throughout history have made claims that they were inspired by God, yet I’m pretty sure a few of those claims were inspired by the God of this world. Sift and sorting through all of this is arduous at best. And to be sure, Christ’s teaching are in there. I’ve benefitted greatly from what I’ve read. But I’ve also found great peace by personally going to God and asking what Christ’s gospel is and how I am to live it.
This video by a former LDS Church member may help you, and others, trying to sort out what the Gospel really is from what the Church says it is.
I really like this video and the things he talks about. Thank you!
You're most welcome, Hans is a great teacher.

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InfoWarrior82
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Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Chest pains

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Hiker wrote: August 29th, 2022, 8:01 pm
nightlight wrote: August 29th, 2022, 6:38 am The Mormon leadership making the COVID shot into a litmus test of our obedience to the prophet is mind numbing to me.
I was skeptical about all of the coercion and fear mongering in the media. It appeared to me that the church was just going along with all the hysteria.

I never took the vaccine myself. When I told my daughters not to take it they teased me and told me I'm a antivaxxer.

All my life I've been told to follow the prophet so I won't go astray. the COVID situation was the biggest global threat that I lived through. yet the still small voice told me not to take it. Many times I thought about taking the vaccine but the still small voice told me again not to take it.

I can only conclude that I cannot trust the leadership of the church. I must make my own decisions from my own personal revelation.
"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Chest pains

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Peeps wrote: August 29th, 2022, 10:54 pm
This video by a former LDS Church member may help you, and others, trying to sort out what the Gospel really is from what the Church says it is.
Ok, I watched the video here are my thoughts:

He reads Ephesians 2:6-7. I think this speaks more to our pre-existence than a current state of being w/ Christ and being “saved.”

I also don’t agree with his concept that we are only saved by Grace, we must work out our salvation before the Lord. Yes, grace is available to all, but we must be willing to enter the straight and narrow path, and then follow the counsel in 2 Nephi 31:20, endure to the end comes after we have entered into the straight and narrow gate.

I believe Moses 1:39 is has a more accurate depiction. God’s work is for the immortality AND eternal life of man. All are essentially “saved” (gain immortality), yet those who gain eternal life follow the teachings of the Savior as prompted by the Holy Ghost.

Higher and lower laws are very much in effect in this life.

(Side note: his video is super jumpy, he keeps repeating video segments and his introduction)

He believes polygamy is a thing. Joseph, in fact, condemned the practice.

He keeps citing things by RMN. He needs to focus on what Joseph or the BoM teaches, not what modern-day leaders teach. The church has apostatized from the Lord’s gospel. This man likes to focus in on one small verse, without leveraging other canons of scripture to broaden the context.

He claims to never have met a Mormon who could tell him what the gospel of Christ is… The BoM does contain the fullness of the gospel. All truth? No, but is a beautiful second witness, and there are others. This man focuses on the doctrines of the apostate church, not what Joseph established.

Interesting, he believes in a different definition of what Joseph taught about the Godhead. I’m assuming he believes in a Trinitarian god. I believe this to be a wholely false concept. This is one of the basic principles restored through Joseph.

This man has a tendency of taking things out of context. He makes claims that the church doesn’t teach the gospel (and he’d be right in some instances), but he makes some wild assumptions based upon single quotes from modern church leaders.

He keeps repeating this quote from RMN on our “potential” to obtain the Celestial kingdom. And in all reality, RMN is right, if we choose not to believe in Jesus, we cannot obtain such glory. My problem w/ RMN is the distortion of the laws and ordinances. This man is more closely aligned with the “born again” Christian movement of “believe and be saved.”

He points out that “tithing” as taught in the LDS church is a Celestial law. In reality, I believe tithing to be a lower law. Fully living the Law of Consecration is a celestial (or at least the higher) law. And we do not live this law in the LDS church. We don’t even teach/live tithing correctly.

He makes a false assumption about the LDS church’s definition of “grace” that it is only the resurrection from the dead.

He points out the list of “requirements” outlined in The Miracle of Forgiveness. In all reality, sin of any kind is not permissible in the Celestial Kingdom. So there is some truth to what MoF claims.

I agree w/ him that the church encourages a bearing of false witnesses.

The whole naming of Mormon vs TCOJCOLDS is just a distraction.

I do believe the Lord did tell Joseph that all churches of his day were corrupt. I also believe Moroni when he prophesied that in the last days “all” churches will be corrupt. (This is post-restoration btw)

I do have a problem w/ church leaders quoting other church leaders instead of simply referring to the scriptures.

This man prescribes to the heaven or hell concept. I believe there are nearly infinite degrees of damnation and exaltation. Any glory offered to the truly wicked of this earth is a tender mercy of God. Just because one doctrine is taught/explained in one canon of Scripture doesn’t necessarily negate its validity.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Chest pains

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

To simplify my takeaway from the video above. This man sees some (not all) of the apostate nature of the LDS church and is unable to decipher what is true and what is not. His natural tendency is to revert to pre-restoration beliefs and partial, corrupted, or incomplete doctrine taught in the NT.

Peeps
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Posts: 1056

Re: Chest pains

Post by Peeps »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: August 31st, 2022, 11:01 am To simplify my takeaway from the video above. This man sees some (not all) of the apostate nature of the LDS church and is unable to decipher what is true and what is not. His natural tendency is to revert to pre-restoration beliefs and partial, corrupted, or incomplete doctrine taught in the NT.

The Bible has been proven to be quite accurate in our modern day, especially after finding the Dead Sea Scrolls. NT manuscripts have been found too.

...Do we believe the Bible we have is true to its original meanings? YES, we have manuscripts from the time of its writing all the way up to our own time. Do we believe the Bible is the Word of God? YES OR NO. You decide.— Sandra Sweeny Silver

https://earlychurchhistory.org/communic ... -evidence/

Even the LDS Church is revealing things it would not normally do with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, and the Gospel Topics Essays. So what if was a result of a lawsuit, it still got done, and you are aware of how nondisclosure agreements usually go when settling things out of court, it means we will never get the details about it, so we must read between the lines:
Peeps wrote:From my understanding, the Church agreed to create the "Gospel Topics Essays," and possibly the "Joseph Smith Papers Project" as part of an out of court settlement for a 2014 lawsuit filed in Britian. The plaintiff was demanding that President Monson appear personally.

Mormon leader Thomas Monson fraud case thrown out
Published
20 March 2014

Image

The head of the Mormon Church will not appear in a British court over claims some of its teachings amount to fraud, a judge has ruled.

A former follower brought a private prosecution against Thomas Monson, president of the US-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Tom Phillips claimed Mr Monson breached the Fraud Act by seeking money using "untrue or misleading" statements...


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26666144
So Daniel 12: 4 has certainly been coming to pass:

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

I used to wonder why Christians accused us "Mormons" of having a "different Jesus" (when I still believed, and back then it was ok still to use the "M-word"). So I tried reading the NT just as it says without the LDS paradigm. I was shocked to find they were right, the Mormon Jesus is very different from the NT, biblical Jesus.

I love Him (the biblical, NT Jesus) with all my heart.
Last edited by Peeps on August 31st, 2022, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Chest pains

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Peeps wrote: August 31st, 2022, 9:50 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: August 31st, 2022, 11:01 am To simplify my takeaway from the video above. This man sees some (not all) of the apostate nature of the LDS church and is unable to decipher what is true and what is not. His natural tendency is to revert to pre-restoration beliefs and partial, corrupted, or incomplete doctrine taught in the NT.

The Bible has been proven to be quite accurate in our modern day, especially after finding the Dead Sea Scrolls. NT manuscripts have been found too.

...Do we believe the Bible we have is true to its original meanings? YES, we have manuscripts from the time of its writing all the way up to our own time. Do we believe the Bible is the Word of God? YES OR NO. You decide.— Sandra Sweeny Silver

https://earlychurchhistory.org/communic ... -evidence/

Even the LDS Church is revealing things it would not normally do with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, and the Gospel Topics Essays. So what if was a result of a lawsuit, it still got done, and you are aware of how nondisclosure agreements usually go when settling things out of court, it means we will never get the details about, so we must read between the lines:
Peeps wrote:From my understanding, the Church agreed to create the "Gospel Topics Essays," and possibly the "Joseph Smith Papers Project" as part of an out of court settlement for a 2014 lawsuit filed in Britian. The plaintiff was demanding that President Monson appear personally.

Mormon leader Thomas Monson fraud case thrown out
Published
20 March 2014

Image

The head of the Mormon Church will not appear in a British court over claims some of its teachings amount to fraud, a judge has ruled.

A former follower brought a private prosecution against Thomas Monson, president of the US-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Tom Phillips claimed Mr Monson breached the Fraud Act by seeking money using "untrue or misleading" statements...


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26666144
So Daniel 12: 4 has certainly been coming to pass:

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

I used to wonder why Christians accused us "Mormons" of having a "different Jesus" (when I still believed, and back then it was ok still to use the "M-word"). So I tried reading the NT just as it says without the LDS paradigm. I was shocked to find they were right, the Mormon Jesus is very different from the NT, biblical Jesus.

I love Him (the biblical, NT Jesus) with all my heart.
I agree that there is amazing truth in the NT, but as the BoM witnesses, truths have been lost. The modern LDS org, to which the man in the video mainly spoke to, is corrupt and has strayed greatly from what was originally founded by Joseph.

kbhorseman
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Re: Chest pains

Post by kbhorseman »

From the beginning, the narrative was a lie. God warned us. We placed the blood of the lamb on our door. It was simple: do not fear, do not trust man, choose Jesus as your healer, do not accept any bribes. Jesus knows your needs, therefore, have faith that He will provide even if it meant losing your job.

In the end, the goal post for the mandated vaccine kept being pushed further away.

I did warn my patients that is was not safe and it was the “serpent’s poison”. They would not listen. Their television God was more powerful and fed them lies without ceasing. 54 Billion dollar advertising campaign is pretty powerful for those who can’t comprehend that they were being caught in a snare.

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LateOutOfBed
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Re: Chest pains

Post by LateOutOfBed »

Hiker wrote: August 29th, 2022, 8:01 pm
nightlight wrote: August 29th, 2022, 6:38 am The Mormon leadership making the COVID shot into a litmus test of our obedience to the prophet is mind numbing to me.
I was skeptical about all of the coercion and fear mongering in the media. It appeared to me that the church was just going along with all the hysteria.

I never took the vaccine myself. When I told my daughters not to take it they teased me and told me I'm a antivaxxer.

All my life I've been told to follow the prophet so I won't go astray. the COVID situation was the biggest global threat that I lived through. yet the still small voice told me not to take it. Many times I thought about taking the vaccine but the still small voice told me again not to take it.

I can only conclude that I cannot trust the leadership of the church. I must make my own decisions from my own personal revelation.
You're not the only one. So, don't feel alone! 5 years ago, I was asked to be in the bishopric. When I interviewed I said "Look, I struggle with the leadership of the LDS church, and I have not received revelation that they are 'Prophet, Seers, and Revelators', but I'm willing to serve and help the ward come to Jesus as best as I know how. So, take it or leave it." I was called as the 2nd counselor and later moved into the 1st counselor position after a year and a half or so.

When COVID hit, to me it was like the whole world was playing poker, and everyone went all in and showed their hands. When the church came out in support of not only vaccines, but mandates, and anti-freedom efforts (Especially Dalin H. Oaks), I knew which side they were supporting. Where the Spirit of Freedom is, there is the Spirit of God. The same still small voice whispered to me to not take the vaxx, and to even avoid wearing masks. I did, and I also immediately told the stake presidency that I received the witness I was seeking, that the LDS leadership at the highest levels are not inspired nor called of God. (The whole bishopric was released 3 months later) :)

My youngest daughter (of 3 children) took the vaccine "just so she could go to college". Luckily nothing major (yet) has happened to her. However, she seems to be sick with colds and other illnesses a lot.

Trust not in the arm of the flesh, and continue trying to listen to that still small voice and things will work out for you and you'll understand with greater knowledge the things of God. I'm slowly growing in this area and it's amazing to see the change in my life. My companies (I was National Guard and worked for Department of Energy as well), both tried to "force" me to take the vaxx. I strongly told both I would under no circumstances do so. I prayed a year and 4 months ago to God and said "God, I might not have any jobs or income in a few months, but I trust in you". The changes in my life over the last year have been amazing. I retired from one job, and Thursday is my last day at the other. A job literally fell into my lap that promised they'd never force me to take a vax.

I'll keep praying for those that took the vaxx like your daughter, out of duty or ignorance that they may see the light and be protected and healed from the ills of it.

Keep at it... keep trusting Him. I thank you for your witness and sharing of information here as well. I believe it strengthens all to discuss these things openly.

Hiker
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Re: Chest pains

Post by Hiker »

Thank you very much for your post!

Hiker
captain of 100
Posts: 331

Re: Chest pains

Post by Hiker »

I can't find any “pure truth” in this article

October 2, 2021
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2023-01-19_212424.png (27.72 KiB) Viewed 369 times
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... c91abcb768

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