Adam Next
- Pazooka
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Adam Next
Christ is the Great High Priest; Adam next.
Last Adam, the Final Adam, the Ultimate Adam, Second Adam and New Adam have all been used as titles for Jesus. And now we add a unique Mormon title: “Adam next”
Like Margaret Barker says, “ Adam was remembered as the first high priest, and Jesus was described as the new Adam.” ~ Temple Theology, pg 4
Is it true that a female Methodist minister knows more than almost every LDS scholar?
Joseph Smith did not say that Adam was next to Jesus in authority of the priesthood. Heck no. He said Jesus was this “Adam Next.”
Last Adam, the Final Adam, the Ultimate Adam, Second Adam and New Adam have all been used as titles for Jesus. And now we add a unique Mormon title: “Adam next”
Like Margaret Barker says, “ Adam was remembered as the first high priest, and Jesus was described as the new Adam.” ~ Temple Theology, pg 4
Is it true that a female Methodist minister knows more than almost every LDS scholar?
Joseph Smith did not say that Adam was next to Jesus in authority of the priesthood. Heck no. He said Jesus was this “Adam Next.”
- TheDuke
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Re: Adam Next
I am confused about the question. It the statement that next to god (Jesus) Adam is the greatest? If so, it seems I've always been taught that. Seems we've been taught it is Father-Jesus-Adam-arch angels------------------ JS (perhaps as one of the arc angels).
- Pazooka
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Re: Adam Next
No, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.TheDuke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:10 pm I am confused about the question. It the statement that next to god (Jesus) Adam is the greatest? If so, it seems I've always been taught that. Seems we've been taught it is Father-Jesus-Adam-arch angels------------------ JS (perhaps as one of the arc angels).
- Baurak Ale
- Nauvoo Legion Captain
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Re: Adam Next
You are correct.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:35 pmNo, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.TheDuke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:10 pm I am confused about the question. It the statement that next to god (Jesus) Adam is the greatest? If so, it seems I've always been taught that. Seems we've been taught it is Father-Jesus-Adam-arch angels------------------ JS (perhaps as one of the arc angels).
However, though your observation of Joseph Smith's calling "Adam next" could be correct the way you've stated it, alternatively I could see the "next" meaning that Adam is the next higher high priest.
This mixup actually occurs in the footnotes of the hypocephalus too, footnote 2, where Oliblish is described as being "next to Kolob," which people all interpret to mean "next down" but according to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Oliblish was "next up" (there are three governing ones above Kolob, and Kolob stands at the head of a quorum of 12 stars). According to the Websters 1828 dictionary, "next" could have either meaning and was contextually derived. You can read more about this hypocephalus mixup here: If You Could Hie to Sirius B.
Hence Oliblish stands "next" to Kolob as a greater world, and Adam stands "next" to Christ as a greater great high priest.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2328
Re: Adam Next
I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Adam Next
Pardon me if I don’t buy into anything that is currently understood about Kolob or Oliblish. I think we’ll have to be willing to abandon what we currently think we understand about cosmology before that happens.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:49 pmYou are correct.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:35 pmNo, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.TheDuke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:10 pm I am confused about the question. It the statement that next to god (Jesus) Adam is the greatest? If so, it seems I've always been taught that. Seems we've been taught it is Father-Jesus-Adam-arch angels------------------ JS (perhaps as one of the arc angels).
However, though your observation of Joseph Smith's calling "Adam next" could be correct the way you've stated it, alternatively I could see the "next" meaning that Adam is the next higher high priest.
This mixup actually occurs in the footnotes of the hypocephalus too, footnote 2, where Oliblish is described as being "next to Kolob," which people all interpret to mean "next down" but according to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Oliblish was "next up" (there are three governing ones above Kolob, and Kolob stands at the head of a quorum of 12 stars). According to the Websters 1828 dictionary, "next" could have either meaning and was contextually derived. You can read more about this hypocephalus mixup here: If You Could Hie to Sirius B.
Hence Oliblish stands "next" to Kolob as a greater world, and Adam stands "next" to Christ as a greater great high priest.
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Adam Next
Congratulations, you are safely in the majority.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10818
- Location: England
Re: Adam Next
But Daniel 7 clearly says that the Ancient of Days is "the Most High".blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
Here's a modern translation which makes it pretty clear:
- NLT Daniel 7
22 until the Ancient One—the Most High—came and judged in favor of his holy people. Then the time arrived for the holy people to take over the kingdom.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3351
Re: Adam Next
Agreed.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
I don’t even think Adam is Michael anymore.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Adam Next
Then why did Joseph clearly teach this?
You might be comfortable dismissing Joseph's teachings, but I'm not - particularly in this instance. He actually met Michael.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2328
Re: Adam Next
As with other titles such as "Elias", titles can often be applied to more than one personage at different times and places. Christ is often referred to as the Father, although that title also refers to HIS Father. At times I believe that Ancient of Days may refer to HF, Christ, and Adam.Luke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:57 pmblitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
But Daniel 7 clearly says that the Ancient of Days is "the Most High".
Here's a modern translation which makes it pretty clear:
- NLT Daniel 7
22 until the Ancient One—the Most High—came and judged in favor of his holy people. Then the time arrived for the holy people to take over the kingdom.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3351
Re: Adam Next
We don’t have proof that he taught it…. Only text that say he did. I believe Michael is Michael and Adam is Adam because of scriptures I’ve read.
I just thought I’d share, you don’t have to jump down my throat. I’m not asking anyone to believe me.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10818
- Location: England
Re: Adam Next
Perhaps so, but Joseph also explicitly said that "the Ancient of Days" as spoken of in Daniel 7 was Adam/Michael.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 2:04 pmAs with other titles such as "Elias", titles can often be applied to more than one personage at different times and places. Christ is often referred to as the Father, although that title also refers to HIS Father. At times I believe that Ancient of Days may refer to HF, Christ, and Adam.Luke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:57 pmblitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
But Daniel 7 clearly says that the Ancient of Days is "the Most High".
Here's a modern translation which makes it pretty clear:
- NLT Daniel 7
22 until the Ancient One—the Most High—came and judged in favor of his holy people. Then the time arrived for the holy people to take over the kingdom.
Therefore...
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 14223
Re: Adam Next
The phrase "Second Adam" is used a lot in non-LDS sources. The line of thinking is that Jesus undid what Adam started.
There is a line of symmetry in it. Adam took the fruit from the tree, and Jesus put the fruit back on it.
There is a line of symmetry in it. Adam took the fruit from the tree, and Jesus put the fruit back on it.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10818
- Location: England
Re: Adam Next
Yes... we do...
What on earth are you talking about?
He spoke of it numerous times in his public discourses. The notes taken at the time all agree with each other.
- divers Angels from Michael or Adam, down to the present time
This is from a letter from Joseph Smith. The handwriting is that of William Clayton, his scribe, but his signature is on the document.
Furthermore, this letter was printed in the Times and Seasons, in October 1842, and was included in the 1844 Doctrine and Covenants.
To deny that there's proof that Joseph taught this doctrine is just promoting utter fables.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Adam Next
The original d&c 137 states that Joseph saw Adam, Abraham and Michael. Until it was changed. Imagine that.Luke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 2:18 pmYes... we do...
What on earth are you talking about?
He spoke of it numerous times in his public discourses. The notes taken at the time all agree with each other.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... 2-dc-128/7
- divers Angels from Michael or Adam, down to the present time
This is from a letter from Joseph Smith. The handwriting is that of William Clayton, his scribe, but his signature is on the document.
Furthermore, this letter was printed in the Times and Seasons, in October 1842, and was included in the 1844 Doctrine and Covenants.
To deny that there's proof that Joseph taught this doctrine is just promoting utter fables.
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5225
- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Adam Next
Yes, there is symmetry.
Adam was the Great High Priest of creation in the Garden of Eden. He was involved in the *original* everlasting covenant that binds all of creation together.
Jesus is the Second Adam or the *next* Great High Priest - involved in the new and everlasting covenant.
Different trees, from what I understand.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10818
- Location: England
Re: Adam Next
He did see both Adam and Michael. He saw Him in different forms. Past, present and future is all before you in visions.Mamabear wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 2:32 pmThe original d&c 137 states that Joseph saw Adam, Abraham and Michael. Until it was changed. Imagine that.Luke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 2:18 pmYes... we do...
What on earth are you talking about?
He spoke of it numerous times in his public discourses. The notes taken at the time all agree with each other.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... 2-dc-128/7
- divers Angels from Michael or Adam, down to the present time
This is from a letter from Joseph Smith. The handwriting is that of William Clayton, his scribe, but his signature is on the document.
Furthermore, this letter was printed in the Times and Seasons, in October 1842, and was included in the 1844 Doctrine and Covenants.
To deny that there's proof that Joseph taught this doctrine is just promoting utter fables.
But again, the evidence is solid as a rock that Joseph taught Michael/Adam.
- Baurak Ale
- Nauvoo Legion Captain
- Posts: 1068
- Location: The North Countries (Upper Midwest, USA)
Re: Adam Next
Were the following all absent from the 'scriptures [you've] read'?
D&C 27:11
- "Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days."
- "And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel."
- "The voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood."
- Baurak Ale
- Nauvoo Legion Captain
- Posts: 1068
- Location: The North Countries (Upper Midwest, USA)
Re: Adam Next
You are pardoned; however, the post I sent you bears little resemblance to anything 'currently understood' regarding Kolob and Oliblish outside the recognition that they are literal worlds.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmPardon me if I don’t buy into anything that is currently understood about Kolob or Oliblish. I think we’ll have to be willing to abandon what we currently think we understand about cosmology before that happens.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:49 pmYou are correct.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:35 pmNo, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.TheDuke wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:10 pm I am confused about the question. It the statement that next to god (Jesus) Adam is the greatest? If so, it seems I've always been taught that. Seems we've been taught it is Father-Jesus-Adam-arch angels------------------ JS (perhaps as one of the arc angels).
However, though your observation of Joseph Smith's calling "Adam next" could be correct the way you've stated it, alternatively I could see the "next" meaning that Adam is the next higher high priest.
This mixup actually occurs in the footnotes of the hypocephalus too, footnote 2, where Oliblish is described as being "next to Kolob," which people all interpret to mean "next down" but according to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Oliblish was "next up" (there are three governing ones above Kolob, and Kolob stands at the head of a quorum of 12 stars). According to the Websters 1828 dictionary, "next" could have either meaning and was contextually derived. You can read more about this hypocephalus mixup here: If You Could Hie to Sirius B.
Hence Oliblish stands "next" to Kolob as a greater world, and Adam stands "next" to Christ as a greater great high priest.
And you'll also have to excuse me for seeing your response as appearing quite curt and unwelcoming for someone who was trying to provide a supporting perspective on your initial post. You don't have to agree with what Kolob is but you could appreciate the linguistic analysis I provided with supporting evidence. If I've done something to offend you, please DM me and let's work it out.
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5225
- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Adam Next
I apologize. I didn’t intend to sound curt - but you’re right, it does.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:12 pmYou are pardoned; however, the post I sent you bears little resemblance to anything 'currently understood' regarding Kolob and Oliblish outside the recognition that they are literal worlds.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmPardon me if I don’t buy into anything that is currently understood about Kolob or Oliblish. I think we’ll have to be willing to abandon what we currently think we understand about cosmology before that happens.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:49 pmYou are correct.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:35 pm
No, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.
However, though your observation of Joseph Smith's calling "Adam next" could be correct the way you've stated it, alternatively I could see the "next" meaning that Adam is the next higher high priest.
This mixup actually occurs in the footnotes of the hypocephalus too, footnote 2, where Oliblish is described as being "next to Kolob," which people all interpret to mean "next down" but according to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Oliblish was "next up" (there are three governing ones above Kolob, and Kolob stands at the head of a quorum of 12 stars). According to the Websters 1828 dictionary, "next" could have either meaning and was contextually derived. You can read more about this hypocephalus mixup here: If You Could Hie to Sirius B.
Hence Oliblish stands "next" to Kolob as a greater world, and Adam stands "next" to Christ as a greater great high priest.
And you'll also have to excuse me for seeing your response as appearing quite curt and unwelcoming for someone who was trying to provide a supporting perspective on your initial post. You don't have to agree with what Kolob is but you could appreciate the linguistic analysis I provided with supporting evidence. If I've done something to offend you, please DM me and let's work it out.
Here’s the thing, though. We misuse these words all the time. “World” literally means “age of man.” The word used in the facsimile is “creation” which could mean many things. I appreciate your trying to support, and I always appreciate your contributions. I just don’t think it applies here. But I will take another look.
- FrankOne
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2942
Re: Adam Next
safe and secure is always best.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmCongratulations, you are safely in the majority.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
*sarc
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5225
- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Adam Next
And so is being mainstream - - because broad is the way, right?FrankOne wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:38 pmsafe and secure is always best.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmCongratulations, you are safely in the majority.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
*sarc
- FrankOne
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2942
Re: Adam Next
broad has become more broad with each day that passes. The narrow path has become as wide as one person can walk.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:46 pmAnd so is being mainstream - - because broad is the way, right?FrankOne wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:38 pmsafe and secure is always best.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmCongratulations, you are safely in the majority.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:44 pm I do not buy the doctrine of Adam being higher than Christ. Adam (Micheal) abides the directions of the Son of God (Christ) and has for all eternity. At AOA Adam will present his keys to Christ. Not vice versa. Brigham Young as usual taught a false doctrine. Christ reigns supreme at the right hand of the father.
*sarc
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5225
- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Adam Next
Ok, I’ve been poking around your blog. (Glad to see Asherah gets mentioned BTW)Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 3:12 pmYou are pardoned; however, the post I sent you bears little resemblance to anything 'currently understood' regarding Kolob and Oliblish outside the recognition that they are literal worlds.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 1:49 pmPardon me if I don’t buy into anything that is currently understood about Kolob or Oliblish. I think we’ll have to be willing to abandon what we currently think we understand about cosmology before that happens.Baurak Ale wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:49 pmYou are correct.Pazooka wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 12:35 pm
No, it means that Adam was the first Great High Priest and Jesus was the second. Jesus presents Himself to Adam on the throne and not the other way around. Adam gives what he would have previously held and presents it to Jesus and Adam goes higher - glory upon glory, exaltation upon exaltation.
However, though your observation of Joseph Smith's calling "Adam next" could be correct the way you've stated it, alternatively I could see the "next" meaning that Adam is the next higher high priest.
This mixup actually occurs in the footnotes of the hypocephalus too, footnote 2, where Oliblish is described as being "next to Kolob," which people all interpret to mean "next down" but according to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Oliblish was "next up" (there are three governing ones above Kolob, and Kolob stands at the head of a quorum of 12 stars). According to the Websters 1828 dictionary, "next" could have either meaning and was contextually derived. You can read more about this hypocephalus mixup here: If You Could Hie to Sirius B.
Hence Oliblish stands "next" to Kolob as a greater world, and Adam stands "next" to Christ as a greater great high priest.
And you'll also have to excuse me for seeing your response as appearing quite curt and unwelcoming for someone who was trying to provide a supporting perspective on your initial post. You don't have to agree with what Kolob is but you could appreciate the linguistic analysis I provided with supporting evidence. If I've done something to offend you, please DM me and let's work it out.
What’s this big lumpy thing in the middle of Facsimile 2? Maybe let’s start there, because you’ll start to understand where I’m coming from (a socially awkward but sincere place, I assure you).
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