Elder Renlund: "It seemed good to the Holy Ghost" to send the first presidency vaccination letter

[harakim]

They are unbelievably deceived. The members of the Church harmed by this should sue. Their teaching authority will be completely undermined when this unravels.

It's unraveling at an alarming pace and yet they keep doubling down.

Because it's too late to matter.

[harakim]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

[Robin Hood]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

Firstly, we need to get out of spiritual Babylon. Once that has been accomplished, getting out of physical Babylon will be a doddle.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world.
D&C 50:2

[Moroni104]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

[FrankOne]

“If you ask him (God) for that witness, you too will know that Russel Marion Nelson is God's prophet on the earth today.”

It’s never “ask the Lord IF Nelson is a prophet or not”… it’s always “ask because he IS”.

There is no sincerity in this statement. Ask God so that you can know, period.

They wouldn’t have to say things like this if Nelson actually was.

as with all of them , they have effective speech writers. Dallin , no doubt checks them for legal consequences as well.

[FrankOne]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

you already know the answer,
within
=================

as for a physical course.... I've known a few people that appear to have been directed to set up gathering places. We'll know if they are truly inspired after things go south. There's the idea that some will go into the inner earth. Yah...bizarre isn't it?

As for the word "should"... Should isn't a word really, is it?

[Gadianton Slayer]

“If you ask him (God) for that witness, you too will know that Russel Marion Nelson is God's prophet on the earth today.”

It’s never “ask the Lord IF Nelson is a prophet or not”… it’s always “ask because he IS”.

There is no sincerity in this statement. Ask God so that you can know, period.

They wouldn’t have to say things like this if Nelson actually was.

as with all of them , they have effective speech writers. Dallin , no doubt checks them for legal consequences as well.

Brilliantly filthy.

[harakim]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

You'll notice that almost all conspiracy theories point to a pyramidal structure. The idea is that you have power over the people lower than you on the pyramid, but those higher than you have control over you. In business, you can hire/fire/threaten your subordinates but your boss can do it to you. You can find lots of examples of this pyramid structure and in every one you will find people who use it as intended or abuse it if it's not intended to be used that way.

Everyone has agency, that's just how it works. Satan's plan was no agency. Well, that is not possible now. The next best thing is to control people by convincing people to use their agency in his best interest with negative emotions like fear and isolation.
There are people who knowingly join a hierarchical organization so they can control those below them at the cost of being controlled by those above.
There are people who identify as victims and like the attention or at least the lack of responsibility they feel over their own problems.
There are people who just give in to fear: fear that they can't do things, fear that they will do the wrong thing, fear that if they do something people won't like them, etcetera.

The main principle in Babylon is to control through fear and to control others by fear. You should rarely, if ever, make decisions based on fear. And you should try and convince people to join you instead of trying to make them fear you via threats.

I think overcoming fear as a prime motivator the first step in getting out of Babylon.

1. Don't manipulate others through negative emotions
2. Don't be manipulated through negative emotions
3. Think ahead and don't put yourself in a position where you will be easily manipulated

You're not supposed to follow man, but the spirit, whose identifying characteristic is peace.

Zion will be built on a foundation of free will and not fear. It will require people to be driven by that principle.

[darknesstolight]

Elder Renlund talks about the first presidency letter regarding vaccinations. Here's a transcription I did starting at about 1hr:03min giving some context around when he was talking about it. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bro ... 1?lang=eng

One interesting thing to me is that he went into the handbook and read the section about vaccinations and getting guidance from the Holy Ghost. Mainly because when I brought up the section in the handbook about getting guidance from the Holy Ghost to my TBM sister, she essentially said that if they wanted us to use the handbook instructions for THIS vaccine, they would have said that in the letter. And that since they didn't, this is an extra special vaccine that is super important. (I'm paraphrasing). Basically, if this vaccine was like the other vaccines then they wouldn't have sent out a specific first presidency message to support it, they would have just said, "Here's what the handbook says."

Elder Renlund:

If you ask him (God) for that witness, you too will know that Russel Marion Nelson is God's prophet on the earth today. President Nelson is really something else. It would be wrong to say that he doesn't care what people think, he's too much of a gentleman for that. But it's most correct to say that his primary audience is the Lord Jesus Christ. That's who he cares about, that's who he seeks to please. And if you think about it, if you have any questions about the direction you recieve, that's the question. What is President Nelson thinking? He's thinking, how does he please the Saviour, how does he take the Saviour's church for which he has stewardship and present it back to the Saviour without being blemished, or harmed, in any way. I know that he is a prophet of God.

With regards to the letter, you can, you know, in Acts chapter 10 Peter receives this revelation that eventually comes to be crystal clear that the gospel should be taken to the Gentiles. But there was still issues to figure out, and so in Acts 15 they're trying to figure out do those who are Gentiles need to become Jewish first, and then become Christian, or is there something other, and there was a heated discussion. So they come up with four things that they needed to do to become Christian that were part of Jewish law, and Peter gets up and he says this, "It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to require these four things." And what I can tell you about this letter, as it was discussed by the first presidency and quorum of the twelve, is that it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to send that letter. If you were to go to your Gospel Library (he then goes into the handbook and reads the statement there about vaccinations, including the part about seeking guidance from the Holy Ghost). Whether or not someone is vaccinated is not a temple recommend question, and it shouldn't be a point of contention. Read that section of the handbook, and then follow that. There's an interesting verse in Romans 14 and if you read the chapter heading it gives us the direction Paul I think would give us now, and that I would give you. The chapter heading says, "Avoid quarreling about opinions and making unrighteous judgement of each other." And then some of the pertinent verses here,

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is aoffended, or is made weak.

The way that we avoid contention is we put the Saviour first. We put him and his gospel first.

Important to note this was not a vaccine. Not trivial for me to say this. Not trite. Very important to use the right term when addressing this injection. It is an experimental gene therapy. Never ever a vaccine. Was registered by PFIZER and Moderna with FDA as gene therapy.

It is gene therapy. It is not a vaccine and speaking to it and addressing it like it is a vaccine devalues the serious nature of the con job and mind f%ck played on the people to get this in to at least 60% of the population.

I heard somewhere that this was the biggest IQ test in the history of mankind.

Wake up!

...

[darknesstolight]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

It's both. You have to stop relying on other humans for direction from God about what you should do. Get help and help but be not reliant on the flesh.

It's both. A physical and spiritual place.

Spiritual places exist in your mind and then they become real as you exercise faith in the idea that exist in your mind. Faith will bring it out of the spirit realm and in to the physical. But you can always escape from this world by living in spirit realm.

Don't understand what I mean?

Ask God.

...

[blitzinstripes]

I think by us sitting around and pontificating about all this layered nonsense, we are becoming evil, ourselves. It's getting past time to get out of Babylon and not look back.

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

Stay home. Pray, study your scriptures, learn from the Holy Ghost, and wait upon the Lord.

[Moroni104]

Get out of Babylon and go where?

Well, first prepare yourself to get out of Babylon and then figure out where to go. If you're not ready, it doesn't matter where you should go. If you are ready, you'll probably know where to go.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm literaly asking where one thinks we should go physically and spiritually.

Is somebody here proposing a spiritual place and/or physical place I should go to?

Stay home. Pray, study your scriptures, learn from the Holy Ghost, and wait upon the Lord.

Have you raised children this way?

Did it work?

[InfoWarrior82]

I've been thinking about this lately.

So they literally admitted that they just went with a "feeling". No direct revelation.

[Christianlee]

I've been thinking about this lately.

So they literally admitted that they just went with a "feeling". No direct revelation.

Their theme song, “I’m hooked on a feeling, I’m high on believing, that you’re in love with me.”

So take the jabs and wear the mask.

[Lemarque]

I've been thinking about this lately.

So they literally admitted that they just went with a "feeling". No direct revelation.

C'mon man, it seemed good to the Holy Ghost too...

[InfoWarrior82]

So they took it down from the church website. The original link doesn't work anymore. Shoot. I should have web archived it.

[Serragon]

So they took it down from the church website. The original link doesn't work anymore. Shoot. I should have web archived it.

Perhaps it seemed good to the Holy Ghost to take it down.

The church has been conflating emotion and the Spirit for a long time now. We teach that the Spirit is the still small voice or a good feeling. We almost never teach that it can manifest in any other way. It is no wonder that most members of the church think that the feelings they have when they are feeling accepted by the group is the Spirit. Our leaders have deliberately set things up to be this way.

[Craig Johnson]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

[InfoWarrior82]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

So our prophets and apostles lied and deceived us in order to test us?

[Craig Johnson]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

So our prophets and apostles lied and deceived us in order to test us?

Read it 77 times until you get what I wrote.

[Robin Hood]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

Probably one of the most muddled posts I've seen on the forum, and as many will appreciate, it's up against some pretty stiff competition.

[InfoWarrior82]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

So our prophets and apostles lied and deceived us in order to test us?

Read it 77 times until you get what I wrote.

It literally makes no sense.

[Craig Johnson]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

Probably one of the most muddled posts I've seen on the forum, and as many will appreciate, it's up against some pretty stiff competition.

Thanks Bishop, I'll try to keep the mud flaps down.

[Craig Johnson]

This whole thing seems like an excellent test for the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles.
The scriptures tell us not to worry about dying, and yet the faithless, those who reject the prophet and apostles are all the time worrying about dying, or whose dying or who can we try to blame it on. Sheesh, maybe we can make the church look bad and someone weak in their faith will leave it because of half-truths, or because we believed lies that came from people we thought we could trust or I have got to save the world everything I've heard that the virus is negatively doing is true!
I am not worried about dying, nobody told me I had to get a vaccine and I didn't and I did not care if by not doing so I would die.
I certainly did not sit around bemoaning everything and pointing my fingers at church leaders and convincing myself that my apostasy or my hatred for Mormons was somehow justified.
In fact, the scriptures don't like hatred either. Elder Renlund pointed all of you to the scriptures and none of you heeded what he relayed, because you know better, you know the Lord better and you know what seems good to the Holy Ghost better, or your friend who is a doctor does and he would never lead you astray.
No, I did not read everything about the vaccine, I have enough naysayers around me to know everyone is in an uproar.
No, I am not going to read everything about vaccines or what you want me to read nor will I think how you think about this matter.
And yes you can come on over and kill me for disagreeing I could not care less.
I have one really good faithful brother who died from COVID and he also was not vaccinated. What if he had been vaccinated and had lived? No one would know the difference.
You are all speaking from a place of ignorance and thinking that you know what you are talking about and only listening to voices that agree with your narrative.
You are believing the discordant voices that are blaming the vaccine for a multitude of issues that might not even be related.

So our prophets and apostles lied and deceived us in order to test us?

Read it 77 times until you get what I wrote.

It literally makes no sense.

I know, isn't that great!?