Be Ye Therefore Perfect… Brigham Young vs. Russell M. Nelson

[nightlight]

Wether they be Gods and Lords many in the heavens matters not to me,
The only one that is important to me is the God that hung apon the Cross in my stead, for it is His blood and not any others that pays the price for my sins.......................

If there was anything I could say to the LDS church at this time it would be to look to the Cross and the Holy One that hung there and worship Him with all your might, mind and strength and give Him the praise, glory and honor that is rightly His.........
This is the glorious life saving power that will bring to us all the redeeming love of Christ Jesus enabling us all to endure with patience the sorrows and tribulations that this present generation is going through.......

With the knowlegde you have of Christ Jesus right now and if you could be transported back in time to the day He was crucified and joined yourself with the other women that kneeled at the foot of the cross weeping as the blood poured down their Saviours body, then you would like them worship Him as Lord and God forever more.............
You would truly understand why Christ Jesus has been adored, venerated and worshipped thru out the long centuries.............

Just remember whoms blood was spilt and set ones eyes and heart apon Him alone ...........

Don't assume too much. you have a holy and true book right in front of you that you dismiss it because of preconceived notions. No doubt you think the spirit tells you the Book of Mormon is a "nice book" but it's "not accurate and historical"... "It is not a true Testament of Jesus Christ'

You think too much of your knowledge. Your influence by the Romans is like putting ear plugs in.

No offense, I'm not saying this to be rude but
I wouldn't trust you with a flock of sheep. Like a literal flock of sheep. No way in hell I'd ever let you watch my son. I don't think you should have children. After all, what is a Pacifist going to do to protect his child. Pray? You think God should get His hands bloody but you can't ?

If you could watch a movie of Jesus 33 years on this Earth.... You'd leave the theater offended.
If you could see what happened to all the men who tried to kill Jesus before He was 30 years old.... You'd be shook.

[endlessQuestions]

Hint: It might help to ask ourselves if we are justified in saying that the only reason Jesus didn’t include Himself in Matthew 5:48 was that he hadn’t yet died and resurrected. Are there any other reasons he might have chosen to not include himself?

What was his relationship with the Jews, and what did they believe about Him?

How about the Nephites?

Jesus was sinless and perfect his whole life. Maybe he didn’t include himself because he always glorified the Father?

But he did include Himself in 3 Nephi.

Again, I’ll ask, just to point you in the direction I was led (which doesn’t mean it’s right).

What was Jesus’ relationship with the Jews? How did they perceive him? What happened to Jesus during his mortal ministry amongst the Jews when He compared Himself to God?

Now, what was Jesus’ relationship with the inhabitants of the lands of the Book of Mormon? How did they perceive Him? What was their response most likely going to be with His inclusion of Himself as perfect?

Thanks for thinking this through with me. I’m going to try to post my “official” response tonight…

[Pazooka]

Jesus was God before He came to this earth, He was God manifest in the flesh when He walked apon this earth and He showed He was God by paying the price of Sin apon the Cross and arising from the dead........

Whilst in the flesh, He forgave mens sins, Only God could do that...........
He lived a perfect life on earth, only God could do that ...........
He showed He had power over life and death, for He arose from the dead.....Only God could do that....

He was born of a pure virgin, a virgin filled with the Holy ghost at her conception and thus sanctified, she had never known a man.......
Thus that which came from her womb was holy, perfect, she being sanctified and filled with the holy ghost and that which came from her womb being the very God of Heaven and earth manifesting Himself in the flesh.........
Hence there was no ritual impurities, no weakness, just perfect holyness...........

Ah the mystery of Godlyness, God manifest in the flesh,
The pillar and foundation of our faith.............

If the Holy Spirit finds a place in your heart to dwell, then you are perfect, even though your flesh body is imperfect, the Spirit covers your weaknesses and frailties thru the mercies and blood shed by Christ Jesus and aids you bye and bye to over come the world......
Not by might, nor by strength, but by my Spirit says the Lord .....

If Jesus, because of his innate holiness, were perfect and ritually clean all the time due to that definition of perfection, then I don’t see how he could have come to tell Mary “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father” when she sought to handle him at the tomb after the resurrection.

Do you mean to tell me that a woman touching him would have made him unfit to be presented to the Father but that 33 years of living in fallen earth-taint didn’t impact his ability to be presented as a perfect, ritually clean sacrifice? Add to that the obviousness of his having been married, with all that entails. Oof.

[TheChristian]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

[Pazooka]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

You’re saying he told her not to touch him because she would have detained him...because he had a pressing appointment with himself. (??)

[TheChristian]

The saviour said to the Religious Church going men of His day ..........

"You pour over the scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life,
but all the time they are testifieing to Me .........."

[Pazooka]

The saviour said to the Religious Church going men of His day ..........

"You pour over the scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life,
but all the time they are testifieing to Me .........."

Thou sayest

[Mamabear]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

You’re saying he told her not to touch him because she would have detained him...because he had a pressing appointment with himself. (??)

No. I think he really did ascend to his Father. However, Jesus testified that he is also the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.”
Ether 3:14

And….
The Holy Ghost=my Spirit = my voice
When we are baptized with the Holy Ghost we are baptized with Jesus’s Spirit….which is why he couldn’t give the Holy Ghost to his apostles, he had leave first.
Does he still have a Father? Yes
Is the Father? Yes
Until we merge the two beliefs about the trinity or godhead, we are stuck spinning our wheels.

[Pazooka]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

You’re saying he told her not to touch him because she would have detained him...because he had a pressing appointment with himself. (??)

No. I think he really did ascend to his Father. However, Jesus testified that he is also the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.”
Ether 3:14

And….
The Holy Ghost=my Spirit = my voice
When we are baptized with the Holy Ghost we are baptized with Jesus’s Spirit.
Does he still have a Father? Yes
Is the Father? Yes
Until we merge the two beliefs about the trinity or godhead, we are stuck spinning our wheels.

I think it gets even crazier than that. But to keep on point...

What does it mean to be “baptized with Jesus’s Spirit” exactly?

[blitzinstripes]

I don't buy into perfection doctrine. Perfection is a commandment, (God the Father can accept no less) but no one can achieve it in the flesh, other than Christ. Which is why the Savior came, atoned, and compensated for our lacking. Have faith in him, repent, and TRY. That is all He requires. He will do the rest.

[Mamabear]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

You’re saying he told her not to touch him because she would have detained him...because he had a pressing appointment with himself. (??)

No. I think he really did ascend to his Father. However, Jesus testified that he is also the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.”
Ether 3:14

And….
The Holy Ghost=my Spirit = my voice
When we are baptized with the Holy Ghost we are baptized with Jesus’s Spirit.
Does he still have a Father? Yes
Is the Father? Yes
Until we merge the two beliefs about the trinity or godhead, we are stuck spinning our wheels.

I think it gets even crazier than that. But to keep on point...

What does it mean to be “baptized with Jesus’s Spirit” exactly?

To be reborn.

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” John 3:5-7

[Atrasado]

If Nephi is correct that the Lord gives no commandment save He prepared a way whereby it might be accomplished, and the Lord commanded us to be perfect then it must be possible. Is it done in this life or the next. It was done in this life for the people of Enoch, apparently for they were taken into heaven. So it stands to reason that it can be achieved here.

I think that Moroni 10:32-33 can help us understand this. It requires that we do two things. We must deny ourselves of all ungodliness and we must love God with all our might, mind, and strength. Then, the important part is that Christ will then strengthen us through His Grace such that we can be perfected in Christ.

[Mamabear]

If you had been faithfull female disciple of Jesus, grief stricken at seeing Him nailed to a cross and dieing, seen His dead body and then three days later wonderfully alive, what would you have done............
You would of clung to Him, not wanting Him to leave again, hence his saying Hold me not, or in other words , dont cling to Me, let me go and do what I must do................

Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible states that Jesus was both the Father and the Son............

JST Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son,
but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

And so when Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, He is speaking of Himself ..........When one looks apon it in that way the gospels become vividly alive and clear to the understanding.........

You’re saying he told her not to touch him because she would have detained him...because he had a pressing appointment with himself. (??)

No. I think he really did ascend to his Father. However, Jesus testified that he is also the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.”
Ether 3:14

And….
The Holy Ghost=my Spirit = my voice
When we are baptized with the Holy Ghost we are baptized with Jesus’s Spirit.
Does he still have a Father? Yes
Is the Father? Yes
Until we merge the two beliefs about the trinity or godhead, we are stuck spinning our wheels.

I think it gets even crazier than that. But to keep on point...

What does it mean to be “baptized with Jesus’s Spirit” exactly?

This doesn’t go with your question per se but we can see here that Jesus’s Spirit is always to be with us if we keep his commandments.

“O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy SON and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have HIS SPIRIT to be with them. Amen.“
Moroni 4:3

[sandman45]

Hint: It might help to ask ourselves if we are justified in saying that the only reason Jesus didn’t include Himself in Matthew 5:48 was that he hadn’t yet died and resurrected. Are there any other reasons he might have chosen to not include himself?

What was his relationship with the Jews, and what did they believe about Him?

How about the Nephites?

There is another possible reason Jesus didn’t include himself in Matt 5:48 and Nightlight is going to love my bringing it up again

Even though Jesus “did no sin” he was still ritually impure under the law because he was born of woman and born onto a fallen plane. He would have needed to be made pure (perfected) just prior to his offering himself a sacrifice for sin.

In Luke 22:43, where “there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him”...when I read that I wonder if it was more than someone just holding his hand. What strength could the Son of God receive? It is my personal belief that this figure could have been the previous link in the chain of “coverage.” I think Jesus received the power and gift of his God that made him a perfect sacrifice.

If that is somewhere close to being the case, it wasn’t death and resurrection that made Jesus perfect just like it won’t be death and resurrection that make us perfect. It would be by the gift and power of our God.

That Angel was Michael.

If you understand who Michael is it makes perfect sense why he came to comfort Christ.

[p8riot]

Hint: It might help to ask ourselves if we are justified in saying that the only reason Jesus didn’t include Himself in Matthew 5:48 was that he hadn’t yet died and resurrected. Are there any other reasons he might have chosen to not include himself?

What was his relationship with the Jews, and what did they believe about Him?

How about the Nephites?

As far as I'm aware, Jesus never said to the Jews that He was the Son of God outright but inferred it or let others testify of it. I believe for several reasons- 1. to not give those accusing Him of blasphemy a cut and dry case against Him 2. not cast pearls before swine. Like most of His teachings, there are multiple layers of understanding based on the spiritual level of the hearer 3. it provided multiple witnesses who testified of His divinity, not just "Hey, listen to me"

I view His wording in Matthew 5:48 was also for reasons 1 and 2 above.

And I would tend to agree with the "Brigham Young version" as you put it. Perfection can be attained in this life through the sanctification by His grace. It is His infinite and eternal sacrifice that can reach backward on our timeline wipe out the blemish so even thought we can't say we were always perfect, in our "now" we can be.

[Ciams]

When the mortal Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

When the resurrected Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as he and our father in heaven are perfect.

We need to get on the path now to become like them later.

[nightlight]

When the mortal Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

When the resurrected Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as he and our father in heaven are perfect.

We need to get on the path now to become like them later.

Incorrect.

Use logic

Was Jesus perfect while a mortal? Yes

And because he didn't didn't mention himself while among the Jews, you assume(wrest) that His commandment is not for you in this life?

Nonsense

John 16:13
"13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
----------------------------

God doesn't give you commandments for a different lifetime.... LDS make this claim to pacify themselves

You don't think you can be perfect now? Then the Gospel of Jesus Christ is going over your head. See Moroni

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
(Moroni 10:32-33)
---------------------------

This is a today thing.

[Sirius]

How can perfection be anything more than doing the best you know how, within your current capacity? And that capacity and perfection can always be enlarged, there is no end to it. So sitting around believing, we can only achieve that after this life, is putting one behind and at a major disadvantage.

[Ciams]

When the mortal Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

When the resurrected Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as he and our father in heaven are perfect.

We need to get on the path now to become like them later.

Incorrect.

Use logic

Was Jesus perfect while a mortal? Yes

And because he didn't didn't mention himself while among the Jews, you assume(wrest) that His commandment is not for you in this life?

Nonsense

John 16:13
"13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
----------------------------

God doesn't give you commandments for a different lifetime.... LDS make this claim to pacify themselves

You don't think you can be perfect now? Then the Gospel of Jesus Christ is going over your head. See Moroni

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
(Moroni 10:32-33)
---------------------------

This is a today thing.

I have no beef with people misunderstanding truth. God is perfect. We are commanded to be like him. Christ is the path to that. We can't get there without following that path here. We won't get there, while we are here. Christ did no wrong in his life.

If you think he was perfect in mortality, you misunderstand the word. How could someone with blood flowing through their veins that could die, be the "same" perfect has someone (his father) with spirit in his veins and inseparable from body? They were different. You're saying both were perfect? But different?

One perfect is different from another perfect? Can one be perfect and another different but also perfect? Don't obsess about perfection being solely, "did no wrong" or "did not err". Its much more than that. Yes, he did no wrong. Yes, he aced the test of mortality, so to speak, that was in front of him. Yes, he could not have done it any better. But that aspect was not complete. He needed to do all that to then reach the stage where he was perfect as the resurrected Christ.

No wresting of the scriptures needed to understand that the resurrected Christ was greater glory than the mortal Christ. The resurrected Christ could not have been without the mortal one so I'm not neglecting that. But I have no problem acknowledging that resurrection and eternal life is greater than mortality and death. Cleary both can't represent the same state of being.

I have no pet doctrines or theories or grudges against any authority that pushes me into this position. Many people get uncomfortable to acknowledge that Christ didn't achieve at fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace, just as we all must.

[nightlight]

When the mortal Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

When the resurrected Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as he and our father in heaven are perfect.

We need to get on the path now to become like them later.

Incorrect.

Use logic

Was Jesus perfect while a mortal? Yes

And because he didn't didn't mention himself while among the Jews, you assume(wrest) that His commandment is not for you in this life?

Nonsense

John 16:13
"13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
----------------------------

God doesn't give you commandments for a different lifetime.... LDS make this claim to pacify themselves

You don't think you can be perfect now? Then the Gospel of Jesus Christ is going over your head. See Moroni

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
(Moroni 10:32-33)
---------------------------

This is a today thing.

I have no beef with people misunderstanding truth. God is perfect. We are commanded to be like him. Christ is the path to that. We can't get there without following that path here. We won't get there, while we are here. Christ did no wrong in his life.

If you think he was perfect in mortality, you misunderstand the word. How could someone with blood flowing through their veins that could die, be the "same" perfect has someone (his father) with spirit in his veins and inseparable from body? They were different. You're saying both were perfect? But different?

One perfect is different from another perfect? Can one be perfect and another different but also perfect? Don't obsess about perfection being solely, "did no wrong" or "did not err". Its much more than that. Yes, he did no wrong. Yes, he aced the test of mortality, so to speak, that was in front of him. Yes, he could not have done it any better. But that aspect was not complete. He needed to do all that to then reach the stage where he was perfect as the resurrected Christ.

No wresting of the scriptures needed to understand that the resurrected Christ was greater glory than the mortal Christ. The resurrected Christ could not have been without the mortal one so I'm not neglecting that. But I have no problem acknowledging that resurrection and eternal life is greater than mortality and death. Cleary both can't represent the same state of being.

I have no pet doctrines or theories or grudges against any authority that pushes me into this position. Many people get uncomfortable to acknowledge that Christ didn't achieve at fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace, just as we all must.

Define perfect

[bjornagain]

Jesus was the Father spoken of in the Bible, His flesh body was the Son, the Spirit that dwelt in that flesh body was the God of Israel, the Eternal or Everlasting Father................

May I ask, are you Mormon/LDS? Do you believe the Book of Mormon and that Joseph Smith was a prophet?

[Ciams]

When the mortal Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

When the resurrected Savior spoke, he commanded to be perfect as he and our father in heaven are perfect.

We need to get on the path now to become like them later.

Incorrect.

Use logic

Was Jesus perfect while a mortal? Yes

And because he didn't didn't mention himself while among the Jews, you assume(wrest) that His commandment is not for you in this life?

Nonsense

John 16:13
"13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
----------------------------

God doesn't give you commandments for a different lifetime.... LDS make this claim to pacify themselves

You don't think you can be perfect now? Then the Gospel of Jesus Christ is going over your head. See Moroni

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
(Moroni 10:32-33)
---------------------------

This is a today thing.

I have no beef with people misunderstanding truth. God is perfect. We are commanded to be like him. Christ is the path to that. We can't get there without following that path here. We won't get there, while we are here. Christ did no wrong in his life.

If you think he was perfect in mortality, you misunderstand the word. How could someone with blood flowing through their veins that could die, be the "same" perfect has someone (his father) with spirit in his veins and inseparable from body? They were different. You're saying both were perfect? But different?

One perfect is different from another perfect? Can one be perfect and another different but also perfect? Don't obsess about perfection being solely, "did no wrong" or "did not err". Its much more than that. Yes, he did no wrong. Yes, he aced the test of mortality, so to speak, that was in front of him. Yes, he could not have done it any better. But that aspect was not complete. He needed to do all that to then reach the stage where he was perfect as the resurrected Christ.

No wresting of the scriptures needed to understand that the resurrected Christ was greater glory than the mortal Christ. The resurrected Christ could not have been without the mortal one so I'm not neglecting that. But I have no problem acknowledging that resurrection and eternal life is greater than mortality and death. Cleary both can't represent the same state of being.

I have no pet doctrines or theories or grudges against any authority that pushes me into this position. Many people get uncomfortable to acknowledge that Christ didn't achieve at fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace, just as we all must.

Define perfect

I would define perfect as possessing a fulness of the attributes of our divine potential, ie. of Godhood. Jesus did not claim the title of perfection for himself until he had received of that fulness.

How can someone who could be God, but presently less than God, be called perfect? When we have received grace for grace, we will receive of that same fulness, and become perfect, even as our father in Heaven is perfect.

[Shawn Henry]

Jesus was the Father spoken of in the Bible, His flesh body was the Son, the Spirit that dwelt in that flesh body was the God of Israel, the Eternal or Everlasting Father................

Listen to you. Preaching doctrine right out of the BoM and actually believing it, unlike Mormons. Isn't it nice to have the BoM and the Bible in agreement on this doctrine?

[Shawn Henry]

Complete

I was just lamenting to myself the other day how unfortunate it is that the correct translated word is "complete". It's unfortunate because it's almost guaranteed to not stick in our collective memory. We will never really use it because we don't ever use it in that context. No one wishes to be complete. If we were to approach someone on the street and ask them if they wanted to be complete, they would look at us like we are weird.

[Shawn Henry]

Don't assume too much. you have a holy and true book right in front of you that you dismiss it because of preconceived notions. No doubt you think the spirit tells you the Book of Mormon is a "nice book" but it's "not accurate and historical"... "It is not a true Testament of Jesus Christ'

You think too much of your knowledge. Your influence by the Romans is like putting ear plugs in.

No offense, I'm not saying this to be rude but
I wouldn't trust you with a flock of sheep. Like a literal flock of sheep. No way in hell I'd ever let you watch my son. I don't think you should have children. After all, what is a Pacifist going to do to protect his child. Pray? You think God should get His hands bloody but you can't ?

If you could watch a movie of Jesus 33 years on this Earth.... You'd leave the theater offended.
If you could see what happened to all the men who tried to kill Jesus before He was 30 years old.... You'd be shook.

This strikes me as a very rude and un-Christlike thing to say.

Am I missing some context here? Has TheChristian confessed to murdering babies or something so evil?