Hysteria in my Ward

[1775peasant]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.

In order to build a new culture, you first have to destroy the old one.

I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

[Serragon]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.

In order to build a new culture, you first have to destroy the old one.

I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

Nelson is a reformationist and has clearly wasted no time in molding the church in his vision.

I don't think badly of Pres. nelson, and I don't think he is evil as some do. But the church is very susceptible to this kind of reformationist when they get in power because they have eliminated all checks and balances procedurally and because they have so indoctrinated the masses in the belief that the man holding the office of President of the Church cannot lead you astray.

It is virtually impossible to disagree vocally with the president of the church at any level without being seen as or on the road to apostasy, and member literally believe that God will kill Pres. Nelson before he will allow him to make a wrong decision. Unanimity is valued above correct doctrine and truth in leadership councils.

The fruit is a church that is going along with drastic changes to doctrine with no explanation or revelation, and then reaffirming these changes in conference talks until they become set in everyone's minds as God's will. There is no ability by anyone to correct anything if we are on the wrong path.

It is striking to me just how susceptible we are to these things. In my ward, Follow the prophet seems to be the theme of every lesson. Last week we talked about Elijah and the widow. The big takeaway was that we need to follow the prophet even when it doesn't seem right. no longer using "mormon" was brought up as evidence. 3 people bore testimony to this change and how they have trained themselves to follow Pres. nelson even though inconvenient. None could bear testimony to the actual fruit of this change, as there isn't any good fruit. it is now harder and more difficult to talk about your faith to others. But each bore testimony of their own righteousness in being obedient to Pres. Nelson.

And it goes on and on like this week after week. And I now understand that most members will go along with anything as long as they can view themselves as righteous for obeyeing.

[spiritMan]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.

In order to build a new culture, you first have to destroy the old one.

I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

True but Nelson has set a precedent.

It is acceptable to completely reverse course from your immediate predecessor. That has the potential to be explosive once he dies.

[inho]

We can just lament and complain that the other members in our wards don't want to do anything together or don't even want to learn to know their fellow members.

Or we can do something ourselves.

What do you find to be the best ways to increase the unity and "team spirit" in our wards?

[Serragon]

We can just lament and complain that the other members in our wards don't want to do anything together or don't even want to learn to know their fellow members.

Or we can do something ourselves.

What do you find to be the best ways to increase the unity and "team spirit" in our wards?

Invite people to your house for dinner.
Shake everyone's hand before church
Go visit people throughout the week
Start small group activities based upon people's interests
Volunteer to your EQ or RS president to run an activity

[Chip]

We can just lament and complain that the other members in our wards don't want to do anything together or don't even want to learn to know their fellow members.

Or we can do something ourselves.

What do you find to be the best ways to increase the unity and "team spirit" in our wards?

A huge problem I see is that members have an invisible bungee cord that connects back to the leadership. It can get pulled at any time for disheartening results. If the bungee cord was connected to Christ, the Holy Ghost, and the Father, instead, it would be AWESOME. As it is, our fellow church members are mostly benign drones waiting to be activated by the globalist church leaders for humiliating masking, injecting, and no-singing-allowed rituals that can occur without notice. Those cords need to be voluntarily severed before we can really move forward together as the body of Christ.

[1775peasant]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.



I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

True but Nelson has set a precedent.

It is acceptable to completely reverse course from your immediate predecessor. That has the potential to be explosive once he dies.

i have made a friend whom is a Patriarch in the Church, we have had some good phone conversations about all this......i have read Serragon post almost the exact same words as my friend about all this, that being that the 15 are now made of up almost entirely of the intelligencia class, and they will go along with the consensus Science narrative pushed by World leaders, health, Govt....etc because they deem themselves part of that clique?

if that's a correct assessment, and i believe it to be better than any other theory that i'm aware of? then the chances are slim of any major reversion coming from the other 14?

but, u make a very valid point if we where talking about most any other types of organizations

[EvanLM]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.

In order to build a new culture, you first have to destroy the old one.

I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

well that was prettty darn honest . . . can you answer this? why is my temple being closed from september through December? This was NOT a public announcement but through the grapevine of a temple worker who told a whole crowd. Are other temples being closed? what's the game plan here? There is no construction or remodel or cleaning that is needing to be done btw

[Chip]

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

True but Nelson has set a precedent.

It is acceptable to completely reverse course from your immediate predecessor. That has the potential to be explosive once he dies.

i have made a friend whom is a Patriarch in the Church, we have had some good phone conversations about all this......i have read Serragon post almost the exact same words as my friend about all this, that being that the 15 are now made of up almost entirely of the intelligencia class, and they will go along with the consensus Science narrative pushed by World leaders, health, Govt....etc because they deem themselves part of that clique?

if that's a correct assessment, and i believe it to be better than any other theory that i'm aware of? then the chances are slim of any major reversion coming from the other 14?

but, u make a very valid point if we where talking about most any other types of organizations

The BIG thing is that if our leaders' guidance can be traced to globalist one-world bodies, then they are REALLY not speaking and acting for Christ. Time for a divorce, then. Hanging around in this situation is going to become increasingly dangerous. The vaxx uptake is a huge demonstration of this. Most members had the sense not to get the shots, but the sway of leadership swamped out their personal navigation systems. Now, they are unhealthy and far less able to assess what is going on. It's like we are all standing in parallel lines at Disneyland, shoulder to shoulder, but these lines are going to diverge at some point and go different places.

[1775peasant]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.



I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

well that was prettty darn honest . . . can you answer this? why is my temple being closed from september through December? This was NOT a public announcement but through the grapevine of a temple worker who told a whole crowd. Are other temples being closed? what's the game plan here? There is no construction or remodel or cleaning that is needing to be done btw

have no clue why?

but, as i've debated on this site & with local ward members........many claim Church leaders went along with the lockdown protocols to insure that Temples & Missionary work could stay open & continue.......my reply has been.......so the Church Leaders willingly, on their own accord,,,,,SHUT DOWN the Temples, and called missionary's home, shutting down certain areas.......so they could KEEP THEM OPEN??? i'd ask, isn't that kinda the definition of oxymoronic?

[762X545]

I've heard that the real reason that there aren't going to be any more Angel Moronis is because Rusty has planned to have golden statues of himself placed on all new temples as a final homage to his narcissistic soul. At least on temples that he announced. Anything that was announced or built during the Hinkley era will be sold off or demolished in order to finally rid the world of the evils of "Mormonism." Joking. However, the church has devolved into a cult of personality. Many members worship these mortal men who in all reality don't do much more than give pre-written talks based upon their own opinion and rarely ever upon revelation. A coworker of mine is constantly looking at porn on his phone yet when I refer to Pres. Nelson by the name "Rusty," he gets all offended and threatens to go to HR because I am mocking his religion. They hold their allegiance to the "Quorum of the 12 Nerds," as more sacred than anything else. Who cares if you ward is failing as long as you say your prayers facing Salt Lake City three times per day.

[endlessQuestions]

FWIW, my ward is the opposite of the OPs. Tons of activities, people gardening and sharing their harvest, small groups forming to share expertise outside of church (TRUE ministering). Lots of baptisms, many of which are more prepared than they have been historically (still some challenges here, though).

Lots of problems to sort through, but lots of good happening as well.

[Juliet]

I really think you can attribute some of the problem to the culture of working moms. No one is doing the job of nurturing the upcoming generation so they don't know how to interact with people. What do you know, gaining social skills is learned at home from your parents. The pain of emotional neglect is very real. Emotionally neglected people can't be there for others. Unfortunately, no one appreciated the work mothers do so they left home to get some appreciation and now it's too late. If you are a working mother please don't think I am throwing shade at you. I am throwing shade at the fact that as a culture we underestimated the power of nurturing. As if people could grow into humans when we treat them as robots. People need so much more than money to develop properly.

[Momma J]

I really think you can attribute some of the problem to the culture of working moms. No one is doing the job of nurturing the upcoming generation so they don't know how to interact with people. What do you know, gaining social skills is learned at home from your parents. The pain of emotional neglect is very real. Emotionally neglected people can't be there for others. Unfortunately, no one appreciated the work mothers do so they left home to get some appreciation and now it's too late.

While this is true, it is compounded by the alternate parenting that is passed out via electronic babysitters. This begins with sitting a toddler in front of cartoons for hours so that a parent has more time for social media. The child then moves up the ladder and begins experiencing the internet themselves. Real people are exchanged for those they interact with on the internet.

Unplug society from all media and we would see instant interaction on a personal level.

[Juliet]

I really think you can attribute some of the problem to the culture of working moms. No one is doing the job of nurturing the upcoming generation so they don't know how to interact with people. What do you know, gaining social skills is learned at home from your parents. The pain of emotional neglect is very real. Emotionally neglected people can't be there for others. Unfortunately, no one appreciated the work mothers do so they left home to get some appreciation and now it's too late.

While this is true, it is compounded by the alternate parenting that is passed out via electronic babysitters. This begins with sitting a toddler in front of cartoons for hours so that a parent has more time for social media. The child then moves up the ladder and begins experiencing the internet themselves. Real people are exchanged for those they interact with on the internet.

Unplug society from all media and we would see instant interaction on a personal level.

Yes. We seem to have a fear based culture where kids can't go outside and play anymore. So people opt for the electronics.

[Pazooka]

We, of the church today, are children playing with toy hammers and in toy kitchens, making and producing nothing...just going through the actions with nothing to show for it. So, it doesn’t really matter to me whether there are activities or not.

We go and visit people and try to build relationships, but for what? No-one is being healed in Jesus’ name. We are not equal in our temporal concerns. Zion is not being gathered or built. The tent stakes are not ever lengthening, providing protection from our enemies.

It is all just play-acting.

[Chip]

I think not having Moroni on the temple is a big deal.

The church made a decision at some point that instead of trying to create a Zion community and bring people to it, that they would simply teach the world where they were and let them stay.

The fruit of this has been a major dilution of doctrine and a destruction of culture.in an attempt to be non-threatening to as many world governments as possible. The church really stands for very little now and has very little actual purpose. Outside of the claim to the keys to ordinances, you will get a better sense of comunity, culture, and purpose in most any local christian or catholic church.

It is ironic to me that RMN is often talking about how the youth of our church need to know who they are and they need to have a purpose. But at the same time he is busy removing everything that gives people a sense of purpose. What we do now in the church does not spring organically from our faith in Christ and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph. It now comes from the top down in choreographed and emotion-dripping syrup that has little long term nutrional value for our faith. Our purpose seems to be membership instead of conversion, and the goal is to feel good about yourself as you are instead of change and sacrifice of will to Christ.

i've not been a member but just over a decade now, but i have visited a lot of the historical sites/pagents, watched a lot of Church vids that are on a channel on Youtube, training videos, missionary training, year in reviews.....etc that go back into the 60s up through the mid 2000s...met & made several friends with members from all over the world....

in my short journey here, i can see where questionable policies where enacted by the 15 going way back, and the interview Hinckley gave with Larry King sure wasn't a stellar performance imo, and under Monson's time i know some things that just make u shake ur head.........???

but, all those previous changes or "new" directions pale in comparison to what has taken place in RMN's short tenure, i mean it's just blow ur doors off right in ur face, constant tearing down of bedrock doctrines & principles!

it just bewilders me that 1 man, could upset over a century's worth of culture & society in such short of a span of time? AND none of the 15, Q's of 70s push back, while watching this complete upheaval take place???? and how did he go along with all the things previously, that he so rapidly upended in his first 2 years?

sadly, i just don't think there's a man in the 15 that will reverse any of RMN's changes given the chance?

Sister Watson-Nelson sure told the truth in her interview right after RMN was sustained, saying that....."now he can finally do all the things he's wanted to".........

well that was prettty darn honest . . . can you answer this? why is my temple being closed from september through December? This was NOT a public announcement but through the grapevine of a temple worker who told a whole crowd. Are other temples being closed? what's the game plan here? There is no construction or remodel or cleaning that is needing to be done btw

have no clue why?

but, as i've debated on this site & with local ward members........many claim Church leaders went along with the lockdown protocols to insure that Temples & Missionary work could stay open & continue.......my reply has been.......so the Church Leaders willingly, on their own accord,,,,,SHUT DOWN the Temples, and called missionary's home, shutting down certain areas.......so they could KEEP THEM OPEN??? i'd ask, isn't that kinda the definition of oxymoronic?

Look... They had to destroy Mormonism to save it.

[Serragon]

FWIW, my ward is the opposite of the OPs. Tons of activities, people gardening and sharing their harvest, small groups forming to share expertise outside of church (TRUE ministering). Lots of baptisms, many of which are more prepared than they have been historically (still some challenges here, though).

Lots of problems to sort through, but lots of good happening as well.

I don't think there is any question that there are still wards that are close and carry on many traditions/activities. But I think these more the exception than the rule, and I think the church organization makes things increasingly difficult to maintain this type of activity.

The social and cultural center for most members is no longer the ward. It is instead the schools, work, or some other worldly pursuit.

[BroJones]

There is a complete absence of anything that holds us together. Every project and program that people used to do together has been cancelled.
Building program, welfare farm, road shows, scouts. The wards used to do the local Easter egg hunt, and 4th of July celebration...no more.

Nobody does anything for the 24th of July.

We show up for two hours and leave.

Someone else mows the lawn and repairs the sprinklers, and replaces light bulbs.

We do nothing together, no common purpose, nothing unifying us.

Adults don't know each other, and don't care.

Bishop doesn't shake people's hands before the meeting, runs off to YM as soon as sacrament is over.

'Ministering' doesn't happen, or is a doorstep delivery of sugary treats.

YM and YW are an unmitigated disaster, every week the youth report about who came out, or which kid argued with the teacher about gay rights, or a teacher affirming kids feelings.

I taught a class recently and asked the teenagers about the reading from come followe...I got 7 blank faces staring back at me. I asked them about Moses and 1 kid recognized his name.

Youth activities have devolved into bi-monthly entertainment and food. With an occasional planning activity mixed in.

Primary is a rushed mess.

Men stop coming and nobody cares. Nobody goes to get them.

Divorces rage. Broken homes abound. Pride ties are worn all June.

Kids fall by the wayside and the silent herd moves on without them.

There is nothing holding us together.

I am prone to fits of melancholy, but this might be as low as I have ever felt.

Oh God forgive us for our sins and have mercy on us now before we are swept away.

Sorry to hear this..
Our Albany mo Ward is better with monthly socials etc. Next big activity on 23 July

[Lizzy60]

There is a complete absence of anything that holds us together. Every project and program that people used to do together has been cancelled.
Building program, welfare farm, road shows, scouts. The wards used to do the local Easter egg hunt, and 4th of July celebration...no more.

Nobody does anything for the 24th of July.

We show up for two hours and leave.

Someone else mows the lawn and repairs the sprinklers, and replaces light bulbs.

We do nothing together, no common purpose, nothing unifying us.

Adults don't know each other, and don't care.

Bishop doesn't shake people's hands before the meeting, runs off to YM as soon as sacrament is over.

'Ministering' doesn't happen, or is a doorstep delivery of sugary treats.

YM and YW are an unmitigated disaster, every week the youth report about who came out, or which kid argued with the teacher about gay rights, or a teacher affirming kids feelings.

I taught a class recently and asked the teenagers about the reading from come followe...I got 7 blank faces staring back at me. I asked them about Moses and 1 kid recognized his name.

Youth activities have devolved into bi-monthly entertainment and food. With an occasional planning activity mixed in.

Primary is a rushed mess.

Men stop coming and nobody cares. Nobody goes to get them.

Divorces rage. Broken homes abound. Pride ties are worn all June.

Kids fall by the wayside and the silent herd moves on without them.

There is nothing holding us together.

I am prone to fits of melancholy, but this might be as low as I have ever felt.

Oh God forgive us for our sins and have mercy on us now before we are swept away.

Sorry to hear this..
Our Albany mo Ward is better with monthly socials etc. Next big activity on 23 July

The last time my ward had monthly socials was sometime back in the previous century. Seriously. When the church deleted the Activities Committee, ward activities in my area (Dallas/Ft Worth) almost disappeared. Maybe 2-3 a year.

[largerthanlife2]

Maybe I am getting too old but I don't seem to care about church activities. The same ten people have to do all the work while the moochers of the ward get all the benefits.

That’s because they are the only people “worthy” to serve, worthiness runs in family lines too……

Anyone willing to show up gets the callings in my ward. We are begging people to take callings.

[sandman45]

Virtual worship is the answer. The church's website and member portals need an overhaul, it will not be cheap. The nest egg you all accuse the church of being money hungry for will come in handy to build and/or buy billions of dollars worth of I.T. infrastructure. Millions will join the church, more temples will be needed to accommadate.

If the Church cared about the future of its members it would spend money to build an alternative to the public school system which is helping to corrupt its children.

We had one when we fled Babylon and settled in Salt Lake to establish Zion. We also had our own system of government and currency. Completely free from Babylon ( US federal government).

But the Saints wanted to be part of it. Wanted Babylon. Wanted to be a state. Well they got it. And now look at us

[sandman45]

The same ten people have to do all the work while the moochers of the ward get all the benefits.

Is it really that the STP do all the work or that they are the only ones ALLOWED to do all the work.

My ward has 120-150 show up every Sunday and yet we still have this Sister with 2-3 callings, that Brother with 2-3 callings, the wife of the 1st counselor, 2nd counselor, etc. run the youth programs or the RS programs.

There are plenty of people who would love to be more involved . . .but they only call those who are in the current leadership click. If you ain't in the circle of trust, good luck on getting a calling. I do not think it's the same ten people problem, I think it's that those are the only ones in the right clic.

The pareto principle is pretty true, so in a ward of 120-150 people you should have at least 20-30 people to call from; which is more than enough so no one has 2-3 big callings in a ward . . .but nope it's all about the clic. And what is worse is when those in the leadership clic don't even really do their jobs.

we must be in the same ward!! You just described my situation perfectly.

[lundbaek]

We have had special interest firesides in our home, attended by members of our ward and stake and by members of other stakes. 25 - 35 attendees

[LDS Physician]

Remember what church was like in previous decades? Society is falling apart and the LDS church has not escaped this. My dad is a bishop right now. Fortunately his ward seems pretty unified and lively, but I feel bad for him. He doesn't know about my alternative beliefs on Mormon history. I love him dearly.

In order to build a new culture, you first have to destroy the old one.

I know to most people it isn't a big deal but I was recently told the Saratoga Springs, Utah temple will be the final LDS temple featuring an angel Moroni. I admit, that in itself is not some humongous, tragic thing. But when that is one thing on top of other changes that have occurred in the LDS church over the past 10 years, it feels like there is an effort to make a new LDS culture. I have mixed feelings on how the LDS temple frames temple worship but I'm saddened that the angel Moroni atop temples is being done with. Maybe the higher-ups in SLC were offended by the angel dropping his trump on their flagship temple in SLC during the earthquake a few years ago :p

They'll show him ... if there is no trumpet to drop, the Lord can't use it as a sign!