How is the $10k/month GA stipend not Priestcraft?

[Fred]

I don't care how much the Q15 or anyone else makes.

What I do care about is dealing with honest people when possible.

When the Q15 lie, they expose their true self. Their non belief in the 10 Commandments. Their lack of integrity. When people make a lot of money and are the scum of the earth, you need not wonder where the money comes from. Satan is the one that employs scoundrels.

Now, if they decide to start following Christ, telling the truth, quit following Fauci, disolve any partnerships with the UN, WEF, Secret Clergy Fund, and quit telling the lies about covid, including their lies about the effectiveness of masks, sanitizer, shots, etc, and become humble, and confess their sins from the pulpit and beg our forgiveness, I will forgive them.

They need to come clean. About ALL of it. Inviting the Federal Reserve to Salt Lake. Starting the Alta Club. Promoting Romney. And Harry Reid. And they have to believe the scriptures. Especially Isaiah.

There are a hundred other skeletons in their closet, but this is a good start.

[EvanLM]

they could be making NO money and still leading us down the wrong path (like Luke thinks they are) so what the heck

the world has certainly made us look at things according to the truth of those who are powerful

the powerful in our world also have the money that they think we all want and tell us lies according to their opinion and expect us to believe it cuz they are the powerful..

You see Ocassio Cortez trying to move into this circle where we should just believe her lies cuz she is one of the powerful, Pelosi, Schumer, Schwabb, Gates, Fauci, etc. they are the powerful cuz they have money so satan has done a good job of telling them that their truth should be believed cuz they are powerful

those are the guys that I fear most. . . they are liars and if the world does not get back to reality then we are all going down. This refusal to speak and hear truth will catch up one day and there will be no choice but to face reality.

You cannot give hormones to a male and turn him into a woman. Sentient is not possible under the current algebraic and calculus algorithims. and on and on and on

stay in the church and get through the truth shock . . it will be worth it

[EvanLM]

now if we culd just get fred to move forward

[tribrac]

Just after MormonLeaks...or whatever they call themselves...dropped one of their first bombshells, it might have been 2014- 2018ish. I was in a setting with several BYU employees and full time church employees (and other professionals). The conversation turned to GA compensation and I was a little taken back by how fiercely the BYU employees defended the compensation of the GAs. Church employees did too, but far more conservative and cautious in their points. The main argument was that the GAs work just like a board of directors of a major corporation and should be compensated like they were running a major corporation.

They argued the GAs should be lauded for their humble sacrifice since the GAs we're taking less money than a comparable Corporate position would pay.

One even argued the GAs were living the law of consecration, just like all full- time church employees .

The arguments had no influence on my initial gut reaction to hearing the compensation package. Something just seems wrong to me.

But I will not condemn, because I kind of feel like there is more that I don't know, and it really isn't affecting me.

[TheDuke]

I don't care what they make. I do agree we should just be open about it. and let those that think it is extravagant whine. I also don't like that I'd been taught they live the law of consecration (i.e. really giving up all their money) and find out they don't or put it in trust or something.

I also don't like them making money on books. That part to me is priestcraft IMOL. Not only them, but people like Sherry Dew that hang around making money on books, like her one on RMN. I was taken back to see Bednar's book, in the temple clothing section with a few pages and, I cannot recall exactly, but like $25 a copy? to me that is improper.

[EvanLM]

can't we just hire people to run the corporation while the prophets and apostles do what prophets and apostles do?

the funniest argument I ever heard my inactive dad and my ornery active granpa had was whether there could be more than 12 apostles on the earth at any given time. My dad offered to duke my grandpa out over the argument so my grandpa quit.

I was just sitting there watching and trying not to laugh.

[EvanLM]

I don't care what they make. I do agree we should just be open about it. and let those that think it is extravagant whine. I also don't like that I'd been taught they live the law of consecration (i.e. really giving up all their money) and find out they don't or put it in trust or something.

I also don't like them making money on books. That part to me is priestcraft IMOL. Not only them, but people like Sherry Dew that hang around making money on books, like her one on RMN. I was taken back to see Bednar's book, in the temple clothing section with a few pages and, I cannot recall exactly, but like $25 a copy? to me that is improper.

yea . . point WELL taken . . I am offended by the books, too

[Atrasado]

I've seen the best workers who work their butts off make little money and the worst workers make much money (and vice versa) cuz this world is NOT fair. there is an eternal world where God rewards all of us equally according to our diligence. In other words if he agrees on the wage for his workers then he will keep his promise.

This thread has some petty people on it and it has been fun to banter but actually what they make hasn't broke the church.

time to build Zion a place of refuge

You're right, life isn't fair. And we wouldn't want it to be. The most unfair thing that ever happened was the atonement of Jesus Christ. However, the shepherds have been feeding themselves off of the sheep. I believe many general authorities are good people, but the system has become very corrupt and those in charge must know it. It isn't petty to point that out. It's our responsibility as Church members to oversee the Church and make certain there is no iniquity in it.

I am laughing when I post this . . no one has a plan . . do you? We know how bad it can be since we all live in the reality of this world and the dishonesty and lack of empathy in our places of employ, etc. but does ANYONE have a plan . . to change it still laughing

Plan? Sure. Fast and pray and repent until the Lord will tell me what I need to do. And then I plan on doing it. That's my plan. And at least witnessing for the truth. That's the least we can do.

[cwass]

I've seen the best workers who work their butts off make little money and the worst workers make much money (and vice versa) cuz this world is NOT fair. there is an eternal world where God rewards all of us equally according to our diligence. In other words if he agrees on the wage for his workers then he will keep his promise.

This thread has some petty people on it and it has been fun to banter but actually what they make hasn't broke the church.

time to build Zion a place of refuge

You're right, life isn't fair. And we wouldn't want it to be. The most unfair thing that ever happened was the atonement of Jesus Christ. However, the shepherds have been feeding themselves off of the sheep. I believe many general authorities are good people, but the system has become very corrupt and those in charge must know it. It isn't petty to point that out. It's our responsibility as Church members to oversee the Church and make certain there is no iniquity in it.

I love being a blue collar person. I've had money before and may again but man is it nice to be able to identify with the struggle of making it with a family and relying on God. I've thought over the last year or two that our leaders have lost touch with blue collar people. It's been one bomb after another that has me rearranging my world view and my notions of what it means to be a member of the church of Jesus Christ. I now appreciate relying on heavenly Father so much more.

[I Dont Know...]

And the rationalizations flow...

And I am judging righteously. I'm watching multi-millionaires receive $10k/month, book royalties, and who knows what else, writing checks to political parties, etc. etc. ... and we all know the ultimate source of these funds: tithing...from people who often sacrifice at great costs to tithe.

No. I can't believe that these ultra-rich men compare to "priests receiving sustenance if they aren't able to do all themselves" as you say, John. Not. Even. Close.

Meanwhile, these same men tell us to go uphold our temple covenants including the one where we're to SACRIFICE all that we have to the Church ... days after they have received yet another check: the opposite of sacrifice.

...does the God of Love, Holiness, Justice and Mercy lead His chosen people in the earth today as He promised?...Israelite, righteous Gentile?...Yes He does...anything or anyone outside of these parameters is counterfeit...let the Holy Spirit glide...I mean guide!...

[Artaxerxes]

And the rationalizations flow...

And I am judging righteously. I'm watching multi-millionaires receive $10k/month, book royalties, and who knows what else, writing checks to political parties, etc. etc. ... and we all know the ultimate source of these funds: tithing...from people who often sacrifice at great costs to tithe.

No. I can't believe that these ultra-rich men compare to "priests receiving sustenance if they aren't able to do all themselves" as you say, John. Not. Even. Close.

Meanwhile, these same men tell us to go uphold our temple covenants including the one where we're to SACRIFICE all that we have to the Church ... days after they have received yet another check: the opposite of sacrifice.

We know that the source of it is tithing? How do we know that? Because the evidence is the opposite.

The reality is that they aren't paid by tithing funds and weren't paid by tithing funds way back when. But facts don't matter when people have an ax to grind.

Screenshot_20220411-141117.png (803.17 KiB) Viewed 581 times

[Mamabear]

Christ, his apostles, and all great prophets and missionaries in human history have traveled without purse or script and preached the gospel with zero monetary compensation. They literally
lived and traveled in a state of poverty and relied on their faith in God and benevolent people to provide their basic needs. This compensation/ stipend, which equates to upper class income status, in ADDITION to the fact that almost without exception these GA's are already independently wealthy, is abominable, imo.

Just as Satan wanted the glory as Savior WITHOUT having to pay that price and endure such enormous suffering, these charlatans want to be fed and clothed and maintain their lofty social statuses and their great and spacious palaces.

The greatest act of faith and truest example I have ever seen in that regard was with an evangelical friend of mine, a former co-worker. He and his wife and six children felt called of God to go and serve a mission in a very poor Asian country. They sacrificed for nearly two years to prepare. They sold their home, a cabin, both of their vehicles, they were left with not much more than the clothes on their backs. All of this they willingly sacrificed to fulfill that call. Both parents left good jobs behind. They spent almost five years over there serving the people and spreading the good news of Christ.

We talk a lot about faith, sacrifice, and willing to consecrate our lives and all of our possessions to the Lord. And that's it. We TALK about it. God bless these wonderful Christian people. They taught me more about what real faith is than over 40 years of wealthy and well paid "general authorities".

Love this. True signs of real apostles right there. Poor, no where to dwell, hungry, no money, etc.

do you live that way? like those that you are admiring?

If God calls me, a woman, to be an apostle and preach around the globe, yeah I would sacrifice and expect nothing in return. I most definitely wouldn’t take money for it because it goes against my principles and the doctrine. I hope I am called by God someday…. I would walk away from the world and it would be an honor.
I do help the poor and widows. you’ve asked me this before and mocked me. Not sure what’s up friend. Have a good night.

[Joan7]

The leaders have strayed so far from the God's Law that it isn't even funny...

Doctrine and Covenants 42:
29 If thou lovest me thou shalt serve me and keep all my commandments.

30 And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken.

31 And inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church and his counselors, two of the elders, or high priests, such as he shall appoint or has appointed and set apart for that purpose.

32 And it shall come to pass, that after they are laid before the bishop of my church, and after that he has received these testimonies concerning the consecration of the properties of my church, that they cannot be taken from the church, agreeable to my commandments, every man shall be made accountable unto me, a steward over his own property, or that which he has received by consecration, as much as is sufficient for himself and family.

33 And again, if there shall be properties in the hands of the church, or any individuals of it, more than is necessary for their support after this first consecration, which is a residue to be consecrated unto the bishop, it shall be kept to administer to those who have not, from time to time, that every man who has need may be amply supplied and receive according to his wants.

34 Therefore, the residue shall be kept in my storehouse, to administer to the poor and the needy, as shall be appointed by the high council of the church, and the bishop and his council;

[sandman45]

And the rationalizations flow...

And I am judging righteously. I'm watching multi-millionaires receive $10k/month, book royalties, and who knows what else, writing checks to political parties, etc. etc. ... and we all know the ultimate source of these funds: tithing...from people who often sacrifice at great costs to tithe.

No. I can't believe that these ultra-rich men compare to "priests receiving sustenance if they aren't able to do all themselves" as you say, John. Not. Even. Close.

Meanwhile, these same men tell us to go uphold our temple covenants including the one where we're to SACRIFICE all that we have to the Church ... days after they have received yet another check: the opposite of sacrifice.

You are getting defensive. again Receiving money does not automatically equate to priestcraft. I never said that they weren't practicing priestcraft, I was responding to the misconception that any money receved is priestcraft. Don't let your bitterness influence your life. They have no power or control over you. Let Christ rule your life not some multi-million dollar people. I get it, I've been there and I was bitter too, but if you don't let it go it will consume you. God is good, He is loving and He wants you to live in peace. Jesus walked around and saw all the wickedness of the world, He didn't let terrible people influence Him in life. He didn't let it make Him bitter. We have to shape up and bear His name instead of always letting hte natural man take over. It is a call to be more because of who God called us to be. We have to start living like Christians instead of letting the world determine how we feel and act.

Non of the current church leadership could follow Christ if he showed up today. They would be sad and walk away because they wouldn’t “sell all that they had” to come and follow him. They love their money, college degrees and Worldly honors more than they love God.

[sandman45]

Taking the salary issue away, I believe it’s undeniable that they set themselves up as a light to the world and seek the praise of men. Just check out their social media for a few minutes.

And before social media they are on TV. Make appearances and speeches. Write books etc etc.

Membership pretty much worships them

[John Tavner]

And the rationalizations flow...

And I am judging righteously. I'm watching multi-millionaires receive $10k/month, book royalties, and who knows what else, writing checks to political parties, etc. etc. ... and we all know the ultimate source of these funds: tithing...from people who often sacrifice at great costs to tithe.

No. I can't believe that these ultra-rich men compare to "priests receiving sustenance if they aren't able to do all themselves" as you say, John. Not. Even. Close.

Meanwhile, these same men tell us to go uphold our temple covenants including the one where we're to SACRIFICE all that we have to the Church ... days after they have received yet another check: the opposite of sacrifice.

You are getting defensive. again Receiving money does not automatically equate to priestcraft. I never said that they weren't practicing priestcraft, I was responding to the misconception that any money receved is priestcraft. Don't let your bitterness influence your life. They have no power or control over you. Let Christ rule your life not some multi-million dollar people. I get it, I've been there and I was bitter too, but if you don't let it go it will consume you. God is good, He is loving and He wants you to live in peace. Jesus walked around and saw all the wickedness of the world, He didn't let terrible people influence Him in life. He didn't let it make Him bitter. We have to shape up and bear His name instead of always letting hte natural man take over. It is a call to be more because of who God called us to be. We have to start living like Christians instead of letting the world determine how we feel and act.

Non of the current church leadership could follow Christ if he showed up today. They would be sad and walk away because they wouldn’t “sell all that they had” to come and follow him. They love their money, college degrees and Worldly honors more than they love God.

Maybe, maybe some would repent immediately. We don't know for sure. I personally would hope they repent, just like I hope that I would to when I saw whatever I might have been missing.

[Joan7]

Don't forget, Brigham Young issued an edict, after Joseph was killed, which exempted the First Presidency and the Twelve from paying tithing. And, you know, I just don't recall that ever being rescinded.

2 Nephi 13:
14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people and the princes thereof; for ye have eaten up the vineyard and the spoil of the poor in your houses.

15 What mean ye? Ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor, saith the Lord God of Hosts.

[Rubicon]

Which raises another question. Do they pay their travel expenses out of their salary or from direct compensation from the Church. I would doubt the former.

GA travel is provided by Church travel. They don't pay out of pocket for it.

and unlike other evangelists who are able to own their big buildings, churches and bank accounts and land and houses, etc. paid for by their parishioners, then our GAs, as you call them, die with nothing of it left to their kids or wives. In fact, their wives have to move out of the condomonium provided to their prophet husbands when their husband dies. Kinda like military housing.

The $120,000 is theirs. They can pass whatever they accumulate (also from pensions, SSN, savings, etc.) to their heirs and survivors. They all own their own home(s) today; none of them live in the Hotel Utah like in the old days.

Jim and Tammy baker could keep all of that money and hand it down to their kids when they die. Our GAs cannot do that.

Where are you getting that from? Our GAs can pass on their church pay to their heirs.

Also, they pay no tithing, near as I can tell. I've read, like some of you, I suppose, the mission president handbook so I know they don't pay tithing. It stands to reason that general authorities would receive at least as good a deal.

The leak of President Eyring's paystub (which is where the $120,000 amount comes from) also included evidence that he pays tithing on it. On the gross! [smile]. I bet most mission president pay tithing on their salary as well.

[Rubicon]

Don't forget, Brigham Young issued an edict, after Joseph was killed, which exempted the First Presidency and the Twelve from paying tithing. And, you know, I just don't recall that ever being rescinded.

Source for that?

There might be one, but I've never heard of this. I would be interested in what anyone can provide as far as this claim.

[heliocentr1c]

And the rationalizations flow...

And I am judging righteously. I'm watching multi-millionaires receive $10k/month, book royalties, and who knows what else, writing checks to political parties, etc. etc. ... and we all know the ultimate source of these funds: tithing...from people who often sacrifice at great costs to tithe.

No. I can't believe that these ultra-rich men compare to "priests receiving sustenance if they aren't able to do all themselves" as you say, John. Not. Even. Close.

Meanwhile, these same men tell us to go uphold our temple covenants including the one where we're to SACRIFICE all that we have to the Church ... days after they have received yet another check: the opposite of sacrifice.

You are getting defensive. again Receiving money does not automatically equate to priestcraft. I never said that they weren't practicing priestcraft, I was responding to the misconception that any money receved is priestcraft. Don't let your bitterness influence your life. They have no power or control over you. Let Christ rule your life not some multi-million dollar people. I get it, I've been there and I was bitter too, but if you don't let it go it will consume you. God is good, He is loving and He wants you to live in peace. Jesus walked around and saw all the wickedness of the world, He didn't let terrible people influence Him in life. He didn't let it make Him bitter. We have to shape up and bear His name instead of always letting hte natural man take over. It is a call to be more because of who God called us to be. We have to start living like Christians instead of letting the world determine how we feel and act.

I'm not letting bitterness influence my life. You don't know me. I'm also not going to be an ostrich and put my head in the sand when those who are called to lead me are in err. Just because I'm pointing out a blatant inconsistency here doesn't mean I'm bitter and that it's influencing my life. I'm actually trying to be like the Savior and point out the hypocrisy of the "ruling class" (religious and secular) in our day without using anger, violence, or fear.

Again. I'm not bitter but almost became so when you accused me of it. LOL.

I"m glad you aren't bitter. I can only say in my own experience tht the more I point out faults though, the more likely I am to become so - it is an easy tendency. I am also not telling you to put your head in the sand like an ostrich - it isn't an either or type of situation. It is fine to call out hypocrisy, but we have to be careful our intention is pure when we do it - as the scripture says the anger of man does not bring forth the righteousness of God, no matter how true what we are saying is. Included would be our desire for validation - not saying that you are doing so or that you are angry.

You've been on this board a while and this discussion has been brought up multiple times on the GAs and their money. So I assumed (incorrectly) that you were frustrated rather than having the pure motive of sharing the inconsistency. It seemed to further solidify when I made my comment about how not all who receive money are guilty of priestcraft and your response. When I say bitterness, also to be clear, I'm not saying it like it affects every interaction now, and others would consider you a bitter person but it sits in your heart and bothers you and you think more about that fault than about God for a longer than is good period of time (consumes your life is how I put it). I suppose I need to watch my hyperbole, which is something I probably need to work on. Though the point is moot because as you say, you don't have that in you at all, So I apologize for my false assumption.

I can only say in my own experience tht the more I point out faults though, the more likely I am to become so - it is an easy tendency. I am also not telling you to put your head in the sand like an ostrich - it isn't an either or type of situation.

I can agree w/ the spirit of this but it does bring up a bit of a moral dilemma:

If a group of people are doing something (especially something manipulative, secretive, or not well understood), which you have good reason to believe is harmful to others, do you point it out and then be accused by others of being "bitter" and "attacking them" or do you have a moral responsibility to call a spade a spade?

If we can never point out another's fault bc it makes us more likely to have that same fault, how can we ever point out error or lies or warn others? Wouldn't this just make us more likely to err and lie?

But I agree, let's remove the beam from our eye before worrying about the splinter in a neighbours. Bc I expect very few people are receiving money in exchange for preaching on this site, I don't really see it as a problem, more like people simply pointing out an inconsistency.

There is a difference between receiving money for preaching the "word" and teaching it and receiving it for say, doing some administrative task on behalf of some earthly church or organization. These are not technically the same thing. BoM addresses this pretty handily:

"And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man according to his strength"

This denotes egalitarianism and equality - teachers aren't paid, hearers aren't paid, even though both have to give up time to come and learn spiritually. Time that they could be using to make money.

If one group is receiving 100K+ and the brunt of their duties, according to D&C, is to handle the spiritual affairs of the church and preach the Gospel to "all nations", but your average member is receiving nothing, even when they share the Gospel with their neighbour, teach sunday school, come in and perform administrative matters, clean the church, etc., this isn't that egalitarian.

There is nothing the GAs do that the lay members don't do also, albeit on a smaller scale and while also typically working, but the GAs are full time ministers.

However, there is nothing obligating them to be full-time. They could work and still tend to the ministry. In fact, Alma was high priest over the church while also filling the judgment seat simultaneously for a time. This would have meant he was paid for his civic duties pertaining to filling the judgement seat but unpaid (at least not for his preaching/teaching) as HP of the church of God - in other words, he worked what was likely a full time job while also being the head of the church!

Therefore the teacher is no better than the hearer, even at the uppermost levels of the church, as described in the BoM and according to the example set by Alma!

[The Red Pill]

Sorry...but $120,000.00 a year AIN'T sustenance.

And...just because they may have made more before...means they most likely have MUCH LARGER savings/investment accounts...that they could tap into if necessary.

Coupled with 150 Billion with Ensign Peak...it sure looks more and more like Jim and Tammy Baker...than what Jesus taught.

Jim and Tammy baker could keep all of that money and hand it down to their kids when they die. Our GAs cannot do that. I love how your truth does not match reality.

You brainwash just like the world you live in. Using an example that isn't even close to prove something that is not reality.

Uh...Jim went to jail Evan....didn't go to his kids. Where do you get your research from...that you are so sure of?

Brainwash???? Seriously...

[Perched Eagle]

Taking the salary issue away, I believe it’s undeniable that they set themselves up as a light to the world and seek the praise of men. Just check out their social media for a few minutes.

I agree with that. I've seen that from more than a few of them. I haven't interacted with all of them nor do I follow (on social media) any them, but it definitely is present and has been present in many if not most of hte interactions I've had with them, in real life and from what I've senn in social media applications. I think there is a tendency to want to follow people in general by the human race, but at the very least the leaders could try to push for clear direction on pointing to Christ and telling people to stop viewing themselves in such a way. Somthing like (if they were true servants) "We are just servants, you can receive from God yourselves, we want you to receive Christ like we have, you can only do that by seeking Him, we might offer some example, but Chrsit is the only true example, honor your fellow man the same way you desire to honor us, we are only the the way we are for the grace of God, and you can receive that grace too, you can receive revelation too, we don't keep you from God, nor do we stand between you and God etc..."

I remember seeing that in Elder Uchtdorf when he came to the Meridian Idaho dedication youth celebration in Boise years ago. His demeanor suggested to me he was being prideful and that the display was intended to also shower him with praise. It wasn’t long after that that he was “demoted”.

[John Tavner]

You are getting defensive. again Receiving money does not automatically equate to priestcraft. I never said that they weren't practicing priestcraft, I was responding to the misconception that any money receved is priestcraft. Don't let your bitterness influence your life. They have no power or control over you. Let Christ rule your life not some multi-million dollar people. I get it, I've been there and I was bitter too, but if you don't let it go it will consume you. God is good, He is loving and He wants you to live in peace. Jesus walked around and saw all the wickedness of the world, He didn't let terrible people influence Him in life. He didn't let it make Him bitter. We have to shape up and bear His name instead of always letting hte natural man take over. It is a call to be more because of who God called us to be. We have to start living like Christians instead of letting the world determine how we feel and act.

I'm not letting bitterness influence my life. You don't know me. I'm also not going to be an ostrich and put my head in the sand when those who are called to lead me are in err. Just because I'm pointing out a blatant inconsistency here doesn't mean I'm bitter and that it's influencing my life. I'm actually trying to be like the Savior and point out the hypocrisy of the "ruling class" (religious and secular) in our day without using anger, violence, or fear.

Again. I'm not bitter but almost became so when you accused me of it. LOL.

I"m glad you aren't bitter. I can only say in my own experience tht the more I point out faults though, the more likely I am to become so - it is an easy tendency. I am also not telling you to put your head in the sand like an ostrich - it isn't an either or type of situation. It is fine to call out hypocrisy, but we have to be careful our intention is pure when we do it - as the scripture says the anger of man does not bring forth the righteousness of God, no matter how true what we are saying is. Included would be our desire for validation - not saying that you are doing so or that you are angry.

You've been on this board a while and this discussion has been brought up multiple times on the GAs and their money. So I assumed (incorrectly) that you were frustrated rather than having the pure motive of sharing the inconsistency. It seemed to further solidify when I made my comment about how not all who receive money are guilty of priestcraft and your response. When I say bitterness, also to be clear, I'm not saying it like it affects every interaction now, and others would consider you a bitter person but it sits in your heart and bothers you and you think more about that fault than about God for a longer than is good period of time (consumes your life is how I put it). I suppose I need to watch my hyperbole, which is something I probably need to work on. Though the point is moot because as you say, you don't have that in you at all, So I apologize for my false assumption.

I can only say in my own experience tht the more I point out faults though, the more likely I am to become so - it is an easy tendency. I am also not telling you to put your head in the sand like an ostrich - it isn't an either or type of situation.

I can agree w/ the spirit of this but it does bring up a bit of a moral dilemma:

If a group of people are doing something (especially something manipulative, secretive, or not well understood), which you have good reason to believe is harmful to others, do you point it out and then be accused by others of being "bitter" and "attacking them" or do you have a moral responsibility to call a spade a spade?

If we can never point out another's fault bc it makes us more likely to have that same fault, how can we ever point out error or lies or warn others? Wouldn't this just make us more likely to err and lie?

But I agree, let's remove the beam from our eye before worrying about the splinter in a neighbours. Bc I expect very few people are receiving money in exchange for preaching on this site, I don't really see it as a problem, more like people simply pointing out an inconsistency.

There is a difference between receiving money for preaching the "word" and teaching it and receiving it for say, doing some administrative task on behalf of some earthly church or organization. These are not technically the same thing. BoM addresses this pretty handily:

"And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man according to his strength"

This denotes egalitarianism and equality - teachers aren't paid, hearers aren't paid, even though both have to give up time to come and learn spiritually. Time that they could be using to make money.

If one group is receiving 100K+ and the brunt of their duties, according to D&C, is to handle the spiritual affairs of the church and preach the Gospel to "all nations", but your average member is receiving nothing, even when they share the Gospel with their neighbour, teach sunday school, come in and perform administrative matters, clean the church, etc., this isn't that egalitarian.

There is nothing the GAs do that the lay members don't do also, albeit on a smaller scale and while also typically working, but the GAs are full time ministers.

However, there is nothing obligating them to be full-time. They could work and still tend to the ministry. In fact, Alma was high priest over the church while also filling the judgment seat simultaneously for a time. This would have meant he was paid for his civic duties pertaining to filling the judgement seat but unpaid (at least not for his preaching/teaching) as HP of the church of God - in other words, he worked what was likely a full time job while also being the head of the church!

Therefore the teacher is no better than the hearer, even at the uppermost levels of the church, as described in the BoM and according to the example set by Alma!

I don't think not pointing out faults would make us err and lie. Most of us know we shouldn't lie or err. Correction shouldn't come because someone is wrong, but because of the potential they have to become so much more. Alma taught that that the word of God had more effect on the people than did any other method of preaching. THe word of God wasn't "You're sinning" it is "this is who you are, and this is why Christ came, and this is what Christ sees you as and you must have faith in that, that Christ's righteousness can cover you so that you no longer have desire to sin, sin is anything that separates us from God, this can be our own selfish desires and it can be us thinking we know better than God... etc" As that sinks in people and they know the love of God they naturally change. I believe that. In the end all we can do is check that our motive is pure that we aren't sahring with the intent to gossip or seek validation or because we feel betrayed or because we secretly do covet money or mismanage our own money or because any other reason. The intent ought to be out of love for our neighbor, but also it shouldn't be the main message, the main message is faith in CHrist and repentance. To realize that we can truly only rely upon God and seek His will, for cursed is the man that relies on the flesh. I don't really care to hear bad things about people anymore because it can cloud my view of God wanting to work with them and seeing them with the potential to repent, sometimes we get so focused on the bad that we lose sight of the power of God to change - I have to remember I too was once a terrible person and God changed me.

If we don't hold onto that hope that people can change, even the most wicked of people, like Alma the younger and the Sons of Mosiah, then in a sense we aren't exercising faith. I'm also not saying we need to stay in a situation, we can leave. When people ask us why we are different we can tell them it is because of Christ. When people ask why we don't do something everyon else does we hae an answer of hope. All things come down to the intent and our own purpose. We must have our hearts pure before we point out faults and even then to reiterate the message, I don't beleive should be just about pointint out faults, it should be about coming unto Christ. Christ's message by and large wasn't "don't listen to the hypocrites" IN so many words He said that, but His message was don't do as they say, do as the Lord commands, don't just not commit a sin, stop doing it in your heart as well. Love one another as I have loved you, don't love one another as they have loved you. Go about doing good in my name, not in the name of those who proclaim to be of me. Don't become over zealous like this group of people, you must deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow me, see, how I eat with publicans and sinners etc...

I don't know the best way of doing it in every circumstance and the Spirit will guide people differently, but we also have to make sure we are seeing it from their pespective too and sincerely. A story someone shared with me the other day was a mother in Africa whose child was dying from starvation and lack of nutrition. She refused to let her son be taken to the hospital unless she got paid money. At first when I heard that I was appalled. What mother wouldn't want her son to be saved, but then the thought came to me "what if that woman didn't want her son saved, only for him to immediately suffer again and die a few weeks later from starvation because her situation didn't change." Right or wrong that view, in her own mind I could see why she did something like that. I no longer looked at her horribly, but as a woman who truly had a struggle, who potentially saw this brief reprieve as torture if she could not continue to feed the child. With hte knowledge she likely had I could see the dilemma. We can debate the morality of that decision from our ivory towers, but whatever the case,I think God will be merciful to her if her intent was pure and she couldn't see the forest for the trees even if the decision was wrong.

[The Red Pill]

A little perspective...

The 2022 median income in the U.S. is $44,225.00

So...without purse or script is three times that?????

[Fred]

they could be making NO money and still leading us down the wrong path (like Luke thinks they are) so what the heck


You cannot give hormones to a male and turn him into a woman. Sentient is not possible under the current algebraic and calculus algorithims. and on and on and on

stay in the church and get through the truth shock . . it will be worth it

Re: How is the $10k/month GA stipend not Priestcraft?

Post by EvanLM » July 4th, 2022, 6:24 pm
now if we could just get fred to move forward

I did not leave the church. I believed the whole thing. I would have rather died than speak badly of God's chosen leaders. But, I have to be honest with myself. When I know for a fact that the profit's words are lies, I have to try to find out why they would lie. Like if I was hiding a Jew in a crawl space and the Gestapo asked me if I had any Jews, I would lie on purpose in order to save a life. But if my lie would cause thousands of people to follow satan, it would not be such a good idea.

When the Q15 lie in order to bolster confidence in satan's disciples, it encourages people to change their loyalty from Jesus to the devil. Telling people to believe and follow dedicated disciples of satan, is not what a real disciple of Christ would do. The purpose of the Secret Clergy Response Team is for a church to tell a lie that a person would not otherwise believe if not told by a trusted church leader. People would not normally believe that satan's elixir was a godsend. It was the only way to get followers of Christ to follow satan. The LDS Church and most large churches gladly joined the Secret Clergy Response Team in order to get good Christians to blindly follow satan. The dumb b!tch that the Q15 sent to speak at the UN even said that the goal was to have a believable church leader turn unsuspecting members to their new leader.

Masks not only do not work, it is not even possible for them to work. Church leaders are knowingly leading people to satan. Closing temples when satan wants them closed is not what a disciple of Christ does.

I still follow Christ. I will never stop. I believe the scriptures. It is painfully obvious that the Q15 do NOT believe the scriptures. Otherwise, they would repent for being the drunkards of Ephraim.

The Q15 attempt to break up families and lead people to hell. They contribute millions of dollars to terrorist groups, racist groups, queer groups, etc. The admit to being democrats, believe the mantra, including abortion, labor unions, etc. All democrats are evil disciples of satan. It is not about politics. It is about believing that Lucifer had the best plan.

There is no other reason to be a democrat. I could write a book on this. But I don't have time. I am running late for an appointment over a hundred miles away and I have to go.