"Do NOT Pray About Whether or Not You Should Go On A Mission. DUMB QUESTION!"

[Artaxerxes]

The problem isn’t that sometimes a call is unable to be fulfilled, or gets hung up on red tape. Such things should be expected.

The problem is that the church claims that every single call is a result of pure revelation, when the process is obviously heavily automated.

In my case, there were no externalities preventing me going where I was called. It just didn’t jive with me for some reason until I was issued another assignment.

It’s a smaller part of a big problem: the church claims that it (or the current leadership) rightfully stands between members and God as some sort of advocate or filter. Even in the OP clip, Pearson says “God commanded a prophet to command you…”

They tell us to “#Hear Him” but only if the things we hear are the things they are saying.

What shows that it is "obviously heavily automated"?

[Artaxerxes]

In that case, that's not the prophets' fault, but the member's.

WTH? …Don’t you see how your statement casts shame on a person for not “following the prophet”? That church dogma is one of the most damning heresies I think Satan could thread into gospel groupthink.

Scenario:

You get called on a mission to Paraguay, which requires proof of vaccination against YELLOW FEVER, a debilitating disease that kills many that it touches.

You choose NOT to get that vaccine.

You receive a secondary mission call sending you stateside.

Whose fault is it for not getting the proper vaccinations?

The prophet's, or the member's?

Don't they ask in advance if one will take vaccines if needed? So that scenario can't happen?

The scenario posted by other posters was exactly that people refused to get the vax and had to be reassigned.

[Reluctant Watchman]

And I'll let you have yours, even though it has very little of any basis of the reality of the current situation.

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

[BroJones]

I appreciate kittycat51 sharing that experience.

I was recently approached about a calling which would have a significant impact on my life, and on my wife (I felt). I said I would talk to my wife and pray about it. A week later, after prayer and talking to my wife and saying (via email 1st) that I would accept the calling, I was informed that the calling was NOT issued.

I think a young man who says he wants to pray about a mission call, should still be a candidate for that calling - even if he is (evidently) going against the Area authority's counsel.
If it gets to the point that we are disqualified from callings - by saying that we wish to ponder and pray about it first -- then we are in trouble.

Are we at that point?

[CuriousThinker]

I appreciate kittycat51 sharing that experience.

I was recently approached about a calling which would have a significant impact on my life, and on my wife (I felt). I said I would talk to my wife and pray about it. A week later, after prayer and talking to my wife and saying (via email 1st) that I would accept the calling, I was informed that the calling was NOT issued.

I think a young man who says he wants to pray about a mission call, should still be a candidate for that calling - even if he is (evidently) going against the Area authority's counsel.
If it gets to the point that we are disqualified from callings - by saying that we wish to ponder and pray about it first -- then we are in trouble.

Are we at that point?

Did they give a reason for rescinding it?

[Subcomandante]

And I'll let you have yours, even though it has very little of any basis of the reality of the current situation.

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

[Reluctant Watchman]

And I'll let you have yours, even though it has very little of any basis of the reality of the current situation.

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

[Subcomandante]

And I'll let you have yours, even though it has very little of any basis of the reality of the current situation.

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

[BroJones]

I appreciate kittycat51 sharing that experience.

I was recently approached about a calling which would have a significant impact on my life, and on my wife (I felt). I said I would talk to my wife and pray about it. A week later, after prayer and talking to my wife and saying (via email 1st) that I would accept the calling, I was informed that the calling was NOT issued.

I think a young man who says he wants to pray about a mission call, should still be a candidate for that calling - even if he is (evidently) going against the Area authority's counsel.
If it gets to the point that we are disqualified from callings - by saying that we wish to ponder and pray about it first -- then we are in trouble.

Are we at that point?

Did they give a reason for rescinding it?

Just that the person in the calling would be continuing on...
"Rescinded " not the right term,, I was just approached I would say...

[Gadianton Slayer]

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

This whole claim on “keys” is nonsense IMO. D&C 121 lays out very simply how unrighteous men can lose their priesthood, and the LDS leaders have hit a few of those points.

Doesn’t help that it isn’t the church of Christ to begin with.

Also, even the keys Peter had were for the kingdom, not church. The purpose of the kingdom is to protect our freedom, religious and otherwise, which the LDS church is obviously not doing.

[XEmilyX]

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

This whole claim on “keys” is nonsense IMO. D&C 121 lays out very simply how unrighteous men can lose their priesthood, and the LDS leaders have hit a few of those points.

Doesn’t help that it isn’t the church of Christ to begin with.

Also, even the keys Peter had were for the kingdom, not church. The purpose of the kingdom is to protect our freedom, religious and otherwise, which the LDS church is obviously not doing.

Hi gadianton slayer.. don't share doctrine you have no clue about. This whole forum should be, repent and wait for a messenger to share the mysteries. Do not share opinion anylonger because it damages people spiritual progression. Amen.
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

[BroJones]

[snip]
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Huh?

[XEmilyX]

[snip]
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Huh?

What do you mean huh? He's got a nice opinion to all of you for some reason or another. Anyway, what do you mean huh?

[Artaxerxes]

[snip]
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Huh?

She stated a bit ago that she was going off her meds. She now claims to speak for the Lord and is telling everyone on the forum that they're going to hell.

[Luke]

Reality? Yep, you can keep believing this shot is "safe and effective" and that church leaders hold some keys and authority from God to call these youth to serve.

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

Which keys?

[Subcomandante]

The yellow fever shot is definitely safe and effective. That's why I mentioned that specific shot and not the COVID shot. And yes, the Church leaders are those who decide where to send the missionaries on missions; that is their responsibility as they have the keys to the gathering of Israel.

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

The keys to the gathering of Israel.
Which keys?

[Gadianton Slayer]

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

This whole claim on “keys” is nonsense IMO. D&C 121 lays out very simply how unrighteous men can lose their priesthood, and the LDS leaders have hit a few of those points.

Doesn’t help that it isn’t the church of Christ to begin with.

Also, even the keys Peter had were for the kingdom, not church. The purpose of the kingdom is to protect our freedom, religious and otherwise, which the LDS church is obviously not doing.

Hi gadianton slayer.. don't share doctrine you have no clue about. This whole forum should be, repent and wait for a messenger to share the mysteries. Do not share opinion anylonger because it damages people spiritual progression. Amen.
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Feel free to show me where I have gone astray. Everything we are discussing is based on scripture, so I would love to be enlightened both about keys and the relationship between church and kingdom.

[Luke]

Christ holds those keys, and He has taken them away from the leaders. I feel strongly that this is what is prophesied in 3 Nephi 16:10-11. We could all learn from D&C 121, unrighteous dominion is rampant in the church today.

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

The keys to the gathering of Israel.
Which keys?

What do those keys entail exactly, and where did they get them?

[XEmilyX]

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

This whole claim on “keys” is nonsense IMO. D&C 121 lays out very simply how unrighteous men can lose their priesthood, and the LDS leaders have hit a few of those points.

Doesn’t help that it isn’t the church of Christ to begin with.

Also, even the keys Peter had were for the kingdom, not church. The purpose of the kingdom is to protect our freedom, religious and otherwise, which the LDS church is obviously not doing.

Hi gadianton slayer.. don't share doctrine you have no clue about. This whole forum should be, repent and wait for a messenger to share the mysteries. Do not share opinion anylonger because it damages people spiritual progression. Amen.
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Feel free to show me where I have gone astray. Everything we are discussing is based on scripture, so I would love to be enlightened both about keys and the relationship between church and kingdom.

Gadianton do you think this is Christ speaking with his voice in Emily's ear or is it really a demon with a voice like God's? One or the other because she's not crazy and I'm going to speak like a demon to make you realize how different it sounds bit I won't do that yet.
Does that sound different or no?
I am making a point here. I Am is speaking to you amen.
The servant speaks now, I am is having a conversation with you gadianton slayer don't mess up!

[Gadianton Slayer]

This whole claim on “keys” is nonsense IMO. D&C 121 lays out very simply how unrighteous men can lose their priesthood, and the LDS leaders have hit a few of those points.

Doesn’t help that it isn’t the church of Christ to begin with.

Also, even the keys Peter had were for the kingdom, not church. The purpose of the kingdom is to protect our freedom, religious and otherwise, which the LDS church is obviously not doing.

Hi gadianton slayer.. don't share doctrine you have no clue about. This whole forum should be, repent and wait for a messenger to share the mysteries. Do not share opinion anylonger because it damages people spiritual progression. Amen.
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Feel free to show me where I have gone astray. Everything we are discussing is based on scripture, so I would love to be enlightened both about keys and the relationship between church and kingdom.

Gadianton do you think this is Christ speaking with his voice in Emily's ear or is it really a demon with a voice like God's? One or the other because she's not crazy and I'm going to speak like a demon to make you realize how different it sounds bit I won't do that yet.
Does that sound different or no?
I am making a point here. I Am is speaking to you amen.
The servant speaks now, I am is having a conversation with you gadianton slayer don't mess up!

No, I really do not believe that God is speaking to me through you.

I understand you will not like that answer.

[XEmilyX]

Hi gadianton slayer.. don't share doctrine you have no clue about. This whole forum should be, repent and wait for a messenger to share the mysteries. Do not share opinion anylonger because it damages people spiritual progression. Amen.
The servant speaks, gadianton people care about you on this forum and your opinion for a big reason, but it's incorrect and we need to be careful.

Feel free to show me where I have gone astray. Everything we are discussing is based on scripture, so I would love to be enlightened both about keys and the relationship between church and kingdom.

Gadianton do you think this is Christ speaking with his voice in Emily's ear or is it really a demon with a voice like God's? One or the other because she's not crazy and I'm going to speak like a demon to make you realize how different it sounds bit I won't do that yet.
Does that sound different or no?
I am making a point here. I Am is speaking to you amen.
The servant speaks now, I am is having a conversation with you gadianton slayer don't mess up!

No, I really do not believe that God is speaking to me through you.

I understand you will not like that answer.

I don't mind says Emily.
But I do! Says the great I AM.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

I disagree on where those keys reside. There's a reason "pride" is referenced with church leadership in Mormon 8.

[OPMissionary]

That's literally just one guy's account, who was not an apostle at the time.

He says "I have learned that this general method is typical each week..."

That's actually really vague phrasing. There's no reason to take that at face value at all. If some guy learned that something generally, typically, kind of happens a lot, that doesn't really mean anything.

I happen to have personal experience with this. I talked to the head mission guy at the church office building because I was concerned about errata on my own mission call. I can assure you that it is mostly done with automation, which is what he blamed the errors on. None of the twelve have time to personally review 30,000+ applications every year, which is fine, we shouldn't expect them to.

Like I said, you used to be able to choose where you went. There was very little revelation from the 12 then, and there isn't right now either. And that's ok.

So your attempt to rebut "literally just one guy's account, who was not an apostle at the time" is to provide "literally just one guy's account, who was not an apostle at the time." Do I have that right?

But, if you're looking for more first hand accounts, there's no lack of them:

"Each mission call and assignment, or a later reassignment, is the result of revelation through the Lord’s servants. A call to the work comes from God through the President of the Church. An assignment to one of the more than 400 missions presently operating around the world comes from God through a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, acting with the authorization of the Lord’s living prophet. The spiritual gifts of prophecy and revelation attend all mission calls and assignments."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... k?lang=eng

"Let me tell you how this happens.

Your photograph comes up on a computer screen, together with key information provided by your bishop and stake president. When your picture appears, we look into your eyes and review your answers to the missionary recommendation questions. For that brief moment, it seems as if you are present and responding to us directly.

As we look at your photograph, we trust that you have cleared in every way the “raised bar” required today to be a faithful, successful missionary. Then, by the power of the Spirit of the Lord and under the direction of President Thomas S. Monson, we assign you to one of the Church’s 406 worldwide missions."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

That doesn't really make sense to me. Yes it clashes with what I've heard from internal church employees. The amount of time this process would take boggles the mind. Not to mention making sure that there is an equal and appropriate distribution of missionaries to every mission. Automation and computer systems certainly play a role in this process, and it's a lot more than people suspect.

30,000 is 577 per week. Divided among the 12, that's an average of 48 or so per apostle. Elder Oaks posted about assigning 240 missionaries in a session, of the 1,000 that were being assigned that week. https://m.facebook.com/lds.dallin.h.oak ... 7567767372

Their accounts state they they look at what missions still need folk and stuff like that, so they're not just looking at a blank screen. So they obviously do use computers to assist in organizing information.

But going back to the question that started it all, all of the accounts affirm that calls are made by revelation.

If the process happens exactly as officially described then it still takes a considerable amount of faith in the brethren to think that every call is divinely mandated through direct revelation from Jesus Christ.

Do you know why they changed it from the "choose where you go" model to the "every call is inspired" model? Personally I prefer the former.

[Artaxerxes]

So your attempt to rebut "literally just one guy's account, who was not an apostle at the time" is to provide "literally just one guy's account, who was not an apostle at the time." Do I have that right?

But, if you're looking for more first hand accounts, there's no lack of them:

"Each mission call and assignment, or a later reassignment, is the result of revelation through the Lord’s servants. A call to the work comes from God through the President of the Church. An assignment to one of the more than 400 missions presently operating around the world comes from God through a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, acting with the authorization of the Lord’s living prophet. The spiritual gifts of prophecy and revelation attend all mission calls and assignments."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... k?lang=eng

"Let me tell you how this happens.

Your photograph comes up on a computer screen, together with key information provided by your bishop and stake president. When your picture appears, we look into your eyes and review your answers to the missionary recommendation questions. For that brief moment, it seems as if you are present and responding to us directly.

As we look at your photograph, we trust that you have cleared in every way the “raised bar” required today to be a faithful, successful missionary. Then, by the power of the Spirit of the Lord and under the direction of President Thomas S. Monson, we assign you to one of the Church’s 406 worldwide missions."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

That doesn't really make sense to me. Yes it clashes with what I've heard from internal church employees. The amount of time this process would take boggles the mind. Not to mention making sure that there is an equal and appropriate distribution of missionaries to every mission. Automation and computer systems certainly play a role in this process, and it's a lot more than people suspect.

30,000 is 577 per week. Divided among the 12, that's an average of 48 or so per apostle. Elder Oaks posted about assigning 240 missionaries in a session, of the 1,000 that were being assigned that week. https://m.facebook.com/lds.dallin.h.oak ... 7567767372

Their accounts state they they look at what missions still need folk and stuff like that, so they're not just looking at a blank screen. So they obviously do use computers to assist in organizing information.

But going back to the question that started it all, all of the accounts affirm that calls are made by revelation.

If the process happens exactly as officially described then it still takes a considerable amount of faith in the brethren to think that every call is divinely mandated through direct revelation from Jesus Christ.

Do you know why they changed it from the "choose where you go" model to the "every call is inspired" model? Personally I prefer the former.

I don't know anything about the choose where you go model. I'm aware of the time in the 19th century when they were assigned, and in the 20th century when they were assigned, so I don't when that would have been.

[Subcomandante]

Those keys will be returned to Adam and then to Christ at the reunion to be had at Adam Ondi Ahman. Until then, they rest with the FP and Q12.

Everything has to be done in order. This includes missionary calls.

I disagree on where those keys reside. There's a reason "pride" is referenced with church leadership in Mormon 8.

OK, now where are the keys?