Joseph in the Gap

For non-mainstream, heterodoxical discussions. Request access to the Heretic Group here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1547

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Shawn Henry »

jreuben wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:03 pm "Swearing on one's head" has never been in any form of the Endowment ever. There are "blood oaths," but nothing involving "swearing on one's head."
It was very much so in the endowment session. Swearing by your head means you commit to the seperating of your head from your body if you reveal what is told to you. This one was done prior to 1990 by signaling with your hand a cutting motion across your throat. It's a little graphic and perhaps that why the First Presidency removed it in 1990.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1547

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Shawn Henry »

jreuben wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:03 pm Isaiah 28.
Isaiah 28

Ah, yes, the drunkards of Ephraim that sit at the head of the fat Salt Lake valleys, overcome with false doctrine.

This is the most painful chapter considering my great love for the church.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1547

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Shawn Henry »

"Given your tone, I fear my remarks will sail right over your head, but that choice is upon you."

I understand your remarks, they were once mine.

I apologize if my tone is inappropriate, I actually love the dialogue and enjoy being corrected, I must, however, choose the scriptures whenever I see a discrepancy and have to choose.

Thanks again for all your responses.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9413
Location: England

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Luke »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 11th, 2022, 3:30 pm Monogamy is how the Lord raises up righteous seed.
Abraham and Jacob (literally the ones for whom the chosen seed is named) didn’t seem to fit into that pattern though, did they?

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1547

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Shawn Henry »

Luke wrote: April 11th, 2022, 9:58 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: April 11th, 2022, 3:30 pm Monogamy is how the Lord raises up righteous seed.
Abraham and Jacob (literally the ones for whom the chosen seed is named) didn’t seem to fit into that pattern though, did they?
It seems God did choose Monogamy with Abraham, because it was his wife that gave him her handmaiden not God. God's plan seems to have been that they have enough faith to wait for Isaac to be born. 132 claims Hagar was his wife, but the Bible always refers to her as the bondwoman.

Jacob seems to have made the choice out of sheer necessity, it being the only way to get the woman he was in love with.

It both cases, there is no indication of a command from God.

But with Adam, Noah, and Lehi we have clear examples of monogamy (all the important times to raise up seed).

Doesn't it bother you that the first time polygamy shows up in the Bible, the BoM, and the D&C it is condemned?

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11225
Location: England

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Robin Hood »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 11th, 2022, 3:20 pm
jreuben wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:03 pm "Swearing on one's head" has never been in any form of the Endowment ever. There are "blood oaths," but nothing involving "swearing on one's head."
It was very much so in the endowment session. Swearing by your head means you commit to the seperating of your head from your body if you reveal what is told to you. This one was done prior to 1990 by signaling with your hand a cutting motion across your throat. It's a little graphic and perhaps that why the First Presidency removed it in 1990.
This is incorrect.
The sign symbolised the cutting of the throat, not the severing of the head.
If you are familiar with the practice of blood atonement you will know that it was occasionally carried out in Utah. This involved the cutting of the throat, but never beheading.
So there was no "swearing by your head" in the temple endowment.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1547

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by Shawn Henry »

Robin Hood wrote: April 12th, 2022, 1:01 am
Shawn Henry wrote: April 11th, 2022, 3:20 pm
jreuben wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:03 pm "Swearing on one's head" has never been in any form of the Endowment ever. There are "blood oaths," but nothing involving "swearing on one's head."
It was very much so in the endowment session. Swearing by your head means you commit to the seperating of your head from your body if you reveal what is told to you. This one was done prior to 1990 by signaling with your hand a cutting motion across your throat. It's a little graphic and perhaps that why the First Presidency removed it in 1990.
This is incorrect.
The sign symbolised the cutting of the throat, not the severing of the head.
If you are familiar with the practice of blood atonement you will know that it was occasionally carried out in Utah. This involved the cutting of the throat, but never beheading.
So there was no "swearing by your head" in the temple endowment.
I accept that correction. I should have said losing your life or death.

This from Biblehub.
"To swear by the head was the same as to swear by the life; or to say, I will forfeit my life if what I say is not true."

Which is the same end result, your death. How can you say there was no swearing by your head in the endowment session?

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7089
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: Joseph in the Gap

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Luke wrote: August 20th, 2021, 11:57 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: August 17th, 2021, 9:30 pm https://youtu.be/LGIGMbDH0Qg?t=1500 is the midst of the discussion about the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood, and how Brigham was never ordained as a High Priest. Lyman Wight and stuff about 1838
About the Isaac Morley farm event?

Also, BY was ordained a High Priest. But not until after Joseph's death. It was most likely by Uncle John Smith
https://youtu.be/CDE227O6HIo?t=7152 Joseph became confused when he gave up the use of his seer stone.

Post Reply