I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.

User avatar
nightlight
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6965

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by nightlight »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pm This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I don’t seek perfection in the brethren, but I do wish they would teach his full doctrine and not partial doctrine or even false traditions.

User avatar
Lexew1899
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3362
Location: USA

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Lexew1899 »

I’d ask where it’s a “well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect.”

And where exactly in your writings that he read did you declare that you expect the leaders of the church to be perfect?

Otherwise he’s making a straw man argument.

Juliet
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3379

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Juliet »

I think the concept is more born from the pharisees who were focused on being perfect according to the ways of man but missing what being perfect really is from a Godly point of view, and this because they did not know God. Jesus said to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is to love both the wicked and the righteous. That is what perfection is from His perspective. Rather than loving all men, the pharisees were concerned with things like washing pots and cups to make sure they were clean. Imagine what they would have done had they had sanitizer back then.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5

“For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.” Mark 7:8

User avatar
oneClimbs
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3053
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by oneClimbs »

My favorite definition of perfect is "lacking nothing sufficient."

My wife is perfect for me.

Something perfect can be lacking in a ton of different areas, but just not in what is sufficient for its purpose.

When most people say "perfect" they have other things in mind like some impossible standard that nobody can achieve.

As nightlight pointed out, we have been told by Jesus to be perfect as he and his Father are. We can be perfect IN Christ and still be mortals making mistakes.

The Lord's definition of perfect is different than the world's. We should avoid using the world's definitions in our theology.

CuriousThinker
captain of 100
Posts: 673

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by CuriousThinker »

I have never heard that as a definition of anti-christ. What dictionary are they using?

User avatar
Redpilled Mormon
captain of 100
Posts: 450

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pm This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.
I have found your site and essays to be extremely good, I have it bookmarked and reference your site regularly. So I would ask, 'what was false?' of your friend. I mean that genuinely, if there is something you got wrong regarding historical facts or references you've cited, I feel strongly it is in your character to want to correct it as quickly as possible. So I would probably have gently pushed back and asked him for a specific falsehood he's referencing, instead of a vague implication that there is a nebulous amount of falsehood 'somewhere'. Heck maybe he just meant a typo somewhere. But I'm betting he won't be able to give any specifics, it probably just boils down to a bit of cognitive dissonance and a feeling. I think if it were me I'd probably txt him back something like 'well I sure don't want to be an anti-Christ lol, so I ask you as a friend I greatly respect to please let me know what struck you as false, so I can correct it if I made a mistake somewhere'

Btw, I've never heard that criticizing church leaders as imperfect = anti-Christ. That seems like a strange definition to me. I'd bet it would to Alma too. Or Abinadai, or even the Savior when he was turning over tables at the temple.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11221
Location: England

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pm This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.
I know what your friend means. There is a tendency to hold leaders to a higher standard. It doesn't matter if it's the president of the church or the president of the US. And it doesn't take much for legitimate criticism of obvious flaws to morph into criticism and fault-finding of every little thing.
As the saying goes; "any fool can criticise and most fools do".
So your friend is right inasmuch as an anti-Christ would likely have developed this characteristic quite well.
I'm not saying you are anti-Christ, I'm saying your friend's general point is valid.

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1516

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by ransomme »

oneClimbs wrote: April 10th, 2022, 9:46 pm My favorite definition of perfect is "lacking nothing sufficient."

My wife is perfect for me.

Something perfect can be lacking in a ton of different areas, but just not in what is sufficient for its purpose.

When most people say "perfect" they have other things in mind like some impossible standard that nobody can achieve.

As nightlight pointed out, we have been told by Jesus to be perfect as he and his Father are. We can be perfect IN Christ and still be mortals making mistakes.

The Lord's definition of perfect is different than the world's. We should avoid using the world's definitions in our theology.
from my lesson yesterday
Attachments
Perfect in Christ.JPG
Perfect in Christ.JPG (107.37 KiB) Viewed 492 times

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Lexew1899 wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:41 pm I’d ask where it’s a “well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect.”

And where exactly in your writings that he read did you declare that you expect the leaders of the church to be perfect?

Otherwise he’s making a straw man argument.
As far as my friend's "perfection" comment, I think this is his assumption based on my infallibility essay. I point out the gross historical contradictions of church leaders. I've never stated that church leaders should be perfect. Not once. I know all men are imperfect, to which my friend so aptly points out that I am also imperfect. I think he just doesn't like the idea of criticizing "the Lord's anointed."

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:02 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pm This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.
I know what your friend means. There is a tendency to hold leaders to a higher standard. It doesn't matter if it's the president of the church or the president of the US. And it doesn't take much for legitimate criticism of obvious flaws to morph into criticism and fault-finding of every little thing.
As the saying goes; "any fool can criticise and most fools do".
So your friend is right inasmuch as an anti-Christ would likely have developed this characteristic quite well.
I'm not saying you are anti-Christ, I'm saying your friend's general point is valid.
The only way I can see his point as valid is IF we consider every word that falls from the lips of church leaders as God's words. But Christ was quite clear that they do not always speak for Him. And yet church leaders continue the dogma of "when I speak, I speak for the Lord." Such a damning and false ideolgy. To me, that is a true anti-Christian (anti-Christ) doctrine.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: April 10th, 2022, 11:50 pm
I have found your site and essays to be extremely good, I have it bookmarked and reference your site regularly. So I would ask, 'what was false?' of your friend. I mean that genuinely, if there is something you got wrong regarding historical facts or references you've cited, I feel strongly it is in your character to want to correct it as quickly as possible. So I would probably have gently pushed back and asked him for a specific falsehood he's referencing, instead of a vague implication that there is a nebulous amount of falsehood 'somewhere'. Heck maybe he just meant a typo somewhere. But I'm betting he won't be able to give any specifics, it probably just boils down to a bit of cognitive dissonance and a feeling. I think if it were me I'd probably txt him back something like 'well I sure don't want to be an anti-Christ lol, so I ask you as a friend I greatly respect to please let me know what struck you as false, so I can correct it if I made a mistake somewhere'

Btw, I've never heard that criticizing church leaders as imperfect = anti-Christ. That seems like a strange definition to me. I'd bet it would to Alma too. Or Abinadai, or even the Savior when he was turning over tables at the temple.
About a year ago this same friend called me a sinner and past feeling for questioning church leaders. I told him to stop contacting me, and we didn't talk for over a year until recently. I thought about asking him where he felt I was misled or wrong in my essays, but he often comes back with, "well, I know President Nelson is a prophet." His justification for polygamy was citing Jacob where the Lord gives an out for producing seed. I told him that didn't fly based upon historical evidence I provided, to which he promptly ignored.

As much as I'd like to spend the time talking through all of the doctrinal nuances with him, I've come to the conclusion that I need to focus on myself and my family right now and a lot of the things going on closer to me. That's one of the reasons I haven't written any new essays in a while. And I have well over 125 more topics I'd like to cover.

If the last two years didn't wake up the saints as to the corruption in church leadership, then I honestly don't know what will. My friend told me to forgive them. To which I replied that forgiveness requires the perpetrator to acknowledge their wrongdoing as part of the deal. Sure, I can pray for any man, but how can I offer forgiveness when that man doesn't recognize they committed wrongdoing? Christ didn't pay the price for my sins if I don't have a change of heart.

The saints will swallow gay marriage, and a whole host of other things and justify it through the "keys" of the priesthood and "living revelation." I do pray that the Lord will be with his people and with his church. But the Lord Himself prophesied that the fullness of the gospel would be taken from His covenant people due to sin and wickedness.

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1516

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by ransomme »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 11th, 2022, 4:26 am
Redpilled Mormon wrote: April 10th, 2022, 11:50 pm
I have found your site and essays to be extremely good, I have it bookmarked and reference your site regularly. So I would ask, 'what was false?' of your friend. I mean that genuinely, if there is something you got wrong regarding historical facts or references you've cited, I feel strongly it is in your character to want to correct it as quickly as possible. So I would probably have gently pushed back and asked him for a specific falsehood he's referencing, instead of a vague implication that there is a nebulous amount of falsehood 'somewhere'. Heck maybe he just meant a typo somewhere. But I'm betting he won't be able to give any specifics, it probably just boils down to a bit of cognitive dissonance and a feeling. I think if it were me I'd probably txt him back something like 'well I sure don't want to be an anti-Christ lol, so I ask you as a friend I greatly respect to please let me know what struck you as false, so I can correct it if I made a mistake somewhere'

Btw, I've never heard that criticizing church leaders as imperfect = anti-Christ. That seems like a strange definition to me. I'd bet it would to Alma too. Or Abinadai, or even the Savior when he was turning over tables at the temple.
About a year ago this same friend called me a sinner and past feeling for questioning church leaders. I told him to stop contacting me, and we didn't talk for over a year until recently. I thought about asking him where he felt I was misled or wrong in my essays, but he often comes back with, "well, I know President Nelson is a prophet." His justification for polygamy was citing Jacob where the Lord gives an out for producing seed. I told him that didn't fly based upon historical evidence I provided, to which he promptly ignored.

As much as I'd like to spend the time talking through all of the doctrinal nuances with him, I've come to the conclusion that I need to focus on myself and my family right now and a lot of the things going on closer to me. That's one of the reasons I haven't written any new essays in a while. And I have well over 125 more topics I'd like to cover.

If the last two years didn't wake up the saints as to the corruption in church leadership, then I honestly don't know what will. My friend told me to forgive them. To which I replied that forgiveness requires the perpetrator to acknowledge their wrongdoing as part of the deal. Sure, I can pray for any man, but how can I offer forgiveness when that man doesn't recognize they committed wrongdoing? Christ didn't pay the price for my sins if I don't have a change of heart.

The saints will swallow gay marriage, and a whole host of other things and justify it through the "keys" of the priesthood and "living revelation." I do pray that the Lord will be with his people and with his church. But the Lord Himself prophesied that the fullness of the gospel would be taken from His covenant people due to sin and wickedness.
As for me and my house, I try not to fear what they might do, but I also don't back down from correct principles if they deviate. I attempt, sometimes more successfully and sometimes less, to be longsuffering, patient, persuasive and bold when exporting and expounding on those principles. I find that my wife and I get people approaching us with questions and concerns pretty often, and a few who will be like, "I'm worried about you" :P

That said, it is still good to be forward-looking to gauge what may be incoming. Perhaps your friend has been put on the defensive by your approach. He seems to still have attachments to those things, about which you are critical. It seems like he might be saying that you are too critical of the Church/leadership and not focused enough on Christ. Just a thought.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

ransomme wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:04 am As for me and my house, I try not to fear what they might do, but I also don't back down from correct principles if they deviate. I attempt, sometimes more successfully and sometimes less, to be longsuffering, patient, persuasive and bold when exporting and expounding on those principles. I find that my wife and I get people approaching us with questions and concerns pretty often, and a few who will be like, "I'm worried about you" :P

That said, it is still good to be forward-looking to gauge what may be incoming. Perhaps your friend has been put on the defensive by your approach. He seems to still have attachments to those things, about which you are critical. It seems like he might be saying that you are too critical of the Church/leadership and not focused enough on Christ. Just a thought.
I've had to overcome that fear by degrees. Now I'm pretty straightforward with people and it catches them off guard at times. Like when I recently asked the newly called ward mission leader if he knew why we weren't coming to church.

I'm trying to find that balance between allowing people their space and calling out false beliefs, all the while attempting to point to doctrinal precedent in the scriptures.

As far as my friend is concerned, I can see where he could come to that conclusion, although I wouldn't agree. In most of my essays, I attempt to express what the correct doctrine should be. And I know I need to be patient with him, because I held many of those same beliefs not long ago.

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1516

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by ransomme »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:24 am
ransomme wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:04 am As for me and my house, I try not to fear what they might do, but I also don't back down from correct principles if they deviate. I attempt, sometimes more successfully and sometimes less, to be longsuffering, patient, persuasive and bold when exporting and expounding on those principles. I find that my wife and I get people approaching us with questions and concerns pretty often, and a few who will be like, "I'm worried about you" :P

That said, it is still good to be forward-looking to gauge what may be incoming. Perhaps your friend has been put on the defensive by your approach. He seems to still have attachments to those things, about which you are critical. It seems like he might be saying that you are too critical of the Church/leadership and not focused enough on Christ. Just a thought.
I've had to overcome that fear by degrees. Now I'm pretty straightforward with people and it catches them off guard at times. Like when I recently asked the newly called ward mission leader if he knew why we weren't coming to church.

I'm trying to find that balance between allowing people their space and calling out false beliefs, all the while attempting to point to doctrinal precedent in the scriptures.

As far as my friend is concerned, I can see where he could come to that conclusion, although I wouldn't agree. In most of my essays, I attempt to express what the correct doctrine should be. And I know I need to be patient with him, because I held many of those same beliefs not long ago.
Understood. Of course, I am coming from a different background/direction from you as well.

Some years back when Sweden had a Great Escape movement, close friends of my wife's from there were kind of zealous, and we saw how they hurt other people. At the time we said, we have no problems with you, (we remained in contact and friends with them, even visited them) but said just don't cross a line with us. They respected that and all was well. Later when we were ready we felt guided to learn and understand things and have our eyes open up. We decidedly chose to take a different approach than others we knew who were zealous wrecking balls, unguided and uncaring beyond what had taken priority for themselves.

I am not comparing you to those peeps BTW, just saying that they had an effect on us. In the end, it was a positive effect, as we took a different path than they when we were confronted by the same things as they were.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

ransomme wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:44 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:24 am
ransomme wrote: April 11th, 2022, 5:04 am As for me and my house, I try not to fear what they might do, but I also don't back down from correct principles if they deviate. I attempt, sometimes more successfully and sometimes less, to be longsuffering, patient, persuasive and bold when exporting and expounding on those principles. I find that my wife and I get people approaching us with questions and concerns pretty often, and a few who will be like, "I'm worried about you" :P

That said, it is still good to be forward-looking to gauge what may be incoming. Perhaps your friend has been put on the defensive by your approach. He seems to still have attachments to those things, about which you are critical. It seems like he might be saying that you are too critical of the Church/leadership and not focused enough on Christ. Just a thought.
I've had to overcome that fear by degrees. Now I'm pretty straightforward with people and it catches them off guard at times. Like when I recently asked the newly called ward mission leader if he knew why we weren't coming to church.

I'm trying to find that balance between allowing people their space and calling out false beliefs, all the while attempting to point to doctrinal precedent in the scriptures.

As far as my friend is concerned, I can see where he could come to that conclusion, although I wouldn't agree. In most of my essays, I attempt to express what the correct doctrine should be. And I know I need to be patient with him, because I held many of those same beliefs not long ago.
Understood. Of course, I am coming from a different background/direction from you as well.

Some years back when Sweden had a Great Escape movement, close friends of my wife's from there were kind of zealous, and we saw how they hurt other people. At the time we said, we have no problems with you, (we remained in contact and friends with them, even visited them) but said just don't cross a line with us. They respected that and all was well. Later when we were ready we felt guided to learn and understand things and have our eyes open up. We decidedly chose to take a different approach than others we knew who were zealous wrecking balls, unguided and uncaring beyond what had taken priority for themselves.

I am not comparing you to those peeps BTW, just saying that they had an effect on us. In the end, it was a positive effect, as we took a different path than they when we were confronted by the same things as they were.
Great points btw. I've often asked for heavenly guidance as to when and where I share my feelings. Still trying to figure that one out. I hope not to offend anyone, but if defending truth offends... well, then it happens. Ancient prophets were quite clear about shaking the blood and sins of the people from their garments so they could stand blameless before God. As individuals, we are only accountable so far as the Spirit has revealed truth to our minds.

User avatar
TheDuke
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2793
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by TheDuke »

When the shoe fits.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Duke, what are you referencing?

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 7198
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by creator »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pmOne of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead.”
If you never said that you expect the leaders to be perfect, then this is a classic example of a strawman argument.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:03 pm When the shoe fits.
Oh, you think I'm an anti-Christ... wow. You never cease to amaze me.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9413
Location: England

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
TheDuke wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:03 pm When the shoe fits.
Oh, you think I'm an anti-Christ... wow. You never cease to amaze me.
Who cares if he thinks your this or that? Ignore him.

You and your fellow anti-polygamists are the one constantly assailing me and others as lustful, libido-driven perverts lacking in the Spirit, so honestly, don’t act so outraged.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7798
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:30 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:46 pm
TheDuke wrote: April 11th, 2022, 1:03 pm When the shoe fits.
Oh, you think I'm an anti-Christ... wow. You never cease to amaze me.
Who cares if he thinks your this or that? Ignore him.

You and your fellow anti-polygamists are the one constantly assailing me and others as lustful, libido-driven perverts lacking in the Spirit, so honestly, don’t act so outraged.
I'm cool with Duke saying what he wants. I don't think his assessment has any basis in scripture, especially considering what my friend outlined in the OP. You on the other hand... well, that's a different story. Christ was quite specific about the "shall not be named" forbidden topic.

EDIT: I also don't think I've ever accused you of being a lustful, libido-driven pervert. Now Brigham on the other hand...

User avatar
Oldemandalton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2226
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by Oldemandalton »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:47 pm This morning I had a two hour text conversation with a friend that I haven’t spoken to in the last year. That in an of itself is a long story. But, he did mention something interesting about how he defines an “anti-Christ.” See below:

I’ve read your essay, and like all of them which you’ve written, they are written by an imperfect man. They include a little truth and a little false. You are imperfect. However I love that you’re seeking for truth and striving to do the very best you can.

One of the well known attributes of all anti-Christs is that they want the people who have been asked to lead Christs church, when He departs, to be absolutely perfect. The problem is that none of them are. It’s why people need Christ as the lead
.”

Is this really the attribute of an anti-Christ? To want church leaders to be perfect? I thought an anti-Christ taught contrary to the doctrine of Christ… If calling out church leaders for their wickedness is a sign of an anti-Christ, then many ancient prophets would fit that description.
No, IMO you are not an anti-Christ. :D

From the Scripture study helps:

Antichrist

Anyone or anything that counterfeits the true gospel plan of salvation and that openly or secretly opposes Christ. John the Revelator described the antichrist as a deceiver (1 Jn. 2:18–22; 4:3–6; 2 Jn. 1:7). The great antichrist is Lucifer, but he has many assistants, both spirit beings and mortals.

The son of perdition opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, 2 Thes. 2:1–12.

He deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of miracles, Rev. 13:13–17.

Sherem denied Christ and deceived many, Jacob 7:1–23.

Nehor taught false doctrines, established a church, and introduced priestcraft, Alma 1:2–16.

Korihor ridiculed Christ, the Atonement, and the spirit of prophecy, Alma 30:6–60.

User avatar
TheDuke
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2793
Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs

Re: I think I was called an anti-Christ by a friend

Post by TheDuke »

Reluctant: I never said you were the anti-Christ. I said that you should consider the consequences of your actions. Obviously you're not the Anti-Christ, he is much more knowledgeable and powerful and wouldn't waste his time on LDS FF.

but, I have been reading a lot of LDS history, and it is a fact that many that get disenchanted kick against the pricks, for what? and you're reaction is always off the wall. Example when you say "tithe" you go ballistic against the church. When I have NEVER seen anything like you say, NEVER in 65 years. Just say you don't buy it, ok or it seems wrong, or implemented wrong, why say it is evil? That is the difference between a useful conversation and hate messaging.

Not sure why Luke is putting in any 2-cents to this conversation either?

Post Reply