Defending Utah - Leaked Memo: Satanic Ritual Abuse is Real and Growing in Utah

[Artaxerxes]

Both of your comments (Art/Sub) speak volumes as to how you approach information. You guys have a nice day.

..... Needing evidence? Oh darn. That one really cuts. Can you believe someone needing evidence to believe things? What a world!

[Reluctant Watchman]

Art, there is evidence, but like I said, you see what you want to see. I can understand how many members still believe most church dogmas... most are unwilling to dig deeper.

[Artaxerxes]

Art, there is evidence, but like I said, you see what you want to see. I can understand how many members still believe most church dogmas... most are unwilling to dig deeper.

Evidence? Like what?

[Momma J]

I love how common folk like to tell SRA victims they are crazy and make things up. That's how I like to approach any allegation. "It didn't happen, I can prove it, I never went through the same trauma, but I'm pretty sure you're lying."

BTW Art, if you haven't realized, I don't care about your opinion on matters of SRA.

The Pace memo said they were documented to be crazy. It's not my saying so. They simply were

Stating "They simply were" crazy, is you saying so. How often are victims made to appear crazy in the eyes of public opinion. Discrediting is a tactic that is used over and over again to silence victims.

I do agree that people can be lead to believe things have happened to them that did not. I also know that police have tactics to "help" a witness point out a criminal. Suggestive persuasion works both ways.

I also believe there is a GREAT deal of evil in the world and our church is not immune. I am not claiming that it is at leadership levels. But there are sprinklings in every culture. Sweeping this under the rug is no better than what the Catholic church did for years.

I prayed about this issue some time back and was filled with sadness and the knowledge that there are "events" for lack of a better term, that are too heavy for my heart to comprehend in full at this stage.

Do not gloss it over... I have no proof and will not debate it with you. But, I know without a doubt that it exists and there are important people around the world who are involved. Big names are quietly trying to distance themselves from their families. I could give the name of someone very big, but will not do it on a public forum.

Pray and your heart may too be opened.

[Artaxerxes]

I love how common folk like to tell SRA victims they are crazy and make things up. That's how I like to approach any allegation. "It didn't happen, I can prove it, I never went through the same trauma, but I'm pretty sure you're lying."

BTW Art, if you haven't realized, I don't care about your opinion on matters of SRA.

The Pace memo said they were documented to be crazy. It's not my saying so. They simply were

Stating "They simply were" crazy, is you saying so. How often are victims made to appear crazy in the eyes of public opinion. Discrediting is a tactic that is used over and over again to silence victims.

I do agree that people can be lead to believe things have happened to them that did not. I also know that police have tactics to "help" a witness point out a criminal. Suggestive persuasion works both ways.

I also believe there is a GREAT deal of evil in the world and our church is not immune. I am not claiming that it is at leadership levels. But there are sprinklings in every culture. Sweeping this under the rug is no better than what the Catholic church did for years.

I prayed about this issue some time back and was filled with sadness and the knowledge that there are "events" for lack of a better term, that are too heavy for my heart to comprehend in full at this stage.

Do not gloss it over... I have no proof and will not debate it with you. But, I know without a doubt that it exists and there are important people around the world who are involved. Big names are quietly trying to distance themselves from their families. I could give the name of someone very big, but will not do it on a public forum.

Pray and your heart may too be opened.

It was not people who wanted to discredit then who said they were crazy. It was Bishop Pace, who believes them. Please read the memo.

The church did not sweep it under the rug, like the Catholics. It referred the matter to police, who investigated it.

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[Reluctant Watchman]

Art, there is evidence, but like I said, you see what you want to see. I can understand how many members still believe most church dogmas... most are unwilling to dig deeper.

Evidence? Like what?

Listen to the audio, or you can read www.mormonmonarch.com.

[AtevoProst]

Because the LDS org and law enforcement most certainly operate independently. In fact, there’s no such thing as secret combinations. That was a term made up by the apostates.

When Christ mentioned secret abominations, murders, and whoredoms in 3 Nephi 16, He was obviously referring to everyone with the fullness of the gospel except for his beloved corporation leaders who can never lead it astray.

Silly me.

So the Church passed along the Pace memo and all other information they gathered to the state legislature and to law enforcement to cover it up? Instead of just ignoring the rantings of these schizophrenics, they brought MORE attention to their crazy people as part of their coverup? That's..... some logic.

It was the talk of multiple neighborhoods, in the news, and courts. It was becoming very very public. The church had to deal with it & do damage control.

It’s called Controlled Opposition / Controlling the narrative. So that the brainwashed masses can sheepishly say, “Oh they dealt with that. It’s in our past. It was dealt with. Nothing happens like that now.” And go back asleep.

Works well. But most don’t even know of the memo’s existence. Or that SRA is a big thing here or anywhere. The church is really good at memory holing.

[Artaxerxes]

Art, there is evidence, but like I said, you see what you want to see. I can understand how many members still believe most church dogmas... most are unwilling to dig deeper.

Evidence? Like what?

Listen to the audio, or you can read www.mormonmonarch.com.

I tried listening to the audio. It was unlistenable. He read the memo for several minutes, repeated his phone number a billion times, and took calls from people who had no idea what was going on.

So another obviously mentally ill person says that he's killed people because the evil satanists made him? This is evidence? I mean, he lives an hour and a half from a major air force base, but is convinced that aircraft that are flying somewhere near him are watching him, and sends letters to his senators because of it?

[Artaxerxes]

Because the LDS org and law enforcement most certainly operate independently. In fact, there’s no such thing as secret combinations. That was a term made up by the apostates.

When Christ mentioned secret abominations, murders, and whoredoms in 3 Nephi 16, He was obviously referring to everyone with the fullness of the gospel except for his beloved corporation leaders who can never lead it astray.

Silly me.

So the Church passed along the Pace memo and all other information they gathered to the state legislature and to law enforcement to cover it up? Instead of just ignoring the rantings of these schizophrenics, they brought MORE attention to their crazy people as part of their coverup? That's..... some logic.

It was the talk of multiple neighborhoods, in the news, and courts. It was becoming very very public. The church had to deal with it & do damage control.

It’s called Controlled Opposition / Controlling the narrative. So that the brainwashed masses can sheepishly say, “Oh they dealt with that. It’s in our past. It was dealt with. Nothing happens like that now.” And go back asleep.

Works well. But most don’t even know of the memo’s existence. Or that SRA is a big thing here or anywhere. The church is really good at memory holing.

I like how SRA is either a super secret thing that no one knows about, and who kills anyone who talks, or something that everyone hears about, which necessitates a response from TPTB.

[Juliet]

Out of 15 million members, you think none of them are involved in this stuff?

I think allegations have to be proven. The pace memo was specifically investigated. They were all crazy.

Proven by whom? Those involved and their friends?

Not gonna argue with you, just posting info that others can dig through if they desire.

I think many underestimate how deep the secret combinations and societies are embedded. Then again, you think the vax was a good thing. There’s not much that you and I are going to have a reasonable discussion abt.

Proven by evidence. For example, someone on this forum claimed that they were a victim of SRA in the basement of a church building. Someone else on the forum went where she directed and found that there was no basement whatsoever in the building.

That's what the AG's investigation into the Pace memo found. People claiming things that were literally impossible.

That was actually me, and the cabinets of that building were the wrong color. I don't know which church building it was, I wondered if it was the one nearest where I grew up. But then I realized the cabinets did not match. I also spoke to the Legal department of the church and told them my memories and he said they would not be doing an investigation. However, after I reported this there were several major closures of church properties to which I had alluded.

I was also a member of Avow at one point in time where a temple worker of the Salt Lake City Temple said one of the basements rooms of the temple was locked because it had been "defiled". I wish that person were more public with this information, but I understand why these things need to be investigated under wraps so as not to stir up trouble.

I think it's just a matter of time before evidence piles over and spills into the public.

When I was speaking with the legal department, I had my phone tapped. I was trying to follow the Holy Spirit and I trust the church is doing the same. It would have been dangerous for him to say on the phone he was going to start an investigation. So tongue in cheek, we found common ground and ended the call.

I have no reason to believe that these things are not being dealt with. I think they are. And I think the first publications of evidence will be by our own church, about the abominations going on in our own church. First us, then the rest of the world.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I have no reason to believe that these things are not being dealt with. I think they are. And I think the first publications of evidence will be by our own church, about the abominations going on in our own church. First us, then the rest of the world.

I have a lot of reason to believe why they are not being dealt with. I feel they are intentionally being kept hidden. SRA goes to the top, that's why.

[Subcomandante]

Both of your comments (Art/Sub) speak volumes as to how you approach information. You guys have a nice day.

You approach information from the available evidence, and then come to a conclusion based on the available evidence.

You are pursuing a "Guilty until Proven Innocent" clause which goes counter to the principles of the Constitution.

When someone accuses another of a crime or tort, you have to provide the evidence that that person is guilty of the crime or tort. Without this, the prosecutor will be laughed out of court.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Both of your comments (Art/Sub) speak volumes as to how you approach information. You guys have a nice day.

You approach information from the available evidence, and then come to a conclusion based on the available evidence.

You are pursuing a "Guilty until Proven Innocent" clause which goes counter to the principles of the Constitution.

When someone accuses another of a crime or tort, you have to provide the evidence that that person is guilty of the crime or tort. Without this, the prosecutor will be laughed out of court.

Sub, I've read extensively on SRA, there is plenty of "evidence" if you choose to go down that path. You also have to recognize that much of what you read has to be seen in a certain light. Secret societies and combinations work in darkness. The techniques used to break a person make it very difficult to "prove" anything in a court of law, yet there is still substantial evidence. That is why they use the techniques that they do. Kind of like the ice bullet theory.

And I do not follow the notion that people are guilty until proven innocent. I strive to give all people the benefit of the doubt. I truly wish that SRA didn't exist, especially w/in the church, but that is just not the case. Judges and politicians are extremely corrupt. The judicial system is the same. The church owns the government in Utah, so good luck trying to "prove" anything.

[Juliet]

I have no reason to believe that these things are not being dealt with. I think they are. And I think the first publications of evidence will be by our own church, about the abominations going on in our own church. First us, then the rest of the world.

I have a lot of reason to believe why they are not being dealt with. I feel they are intentionally being kept hidden. SRA goes to the top, that's why.

Then we will see who really leads this church.

[AtevoProst]

And none of THESE hundreds of pages of sex abuse cases happened either, certainly “not in our Church”...

It’s clearly pure fiction, by totally “crazy” people. No lawsuits happened; no money payouts. No coverups or protection of abusers. There clearly were No connections at all to church leaders or that they consistently lawyer up, bury truth, don’t excommunicate, while ignoring victims and perpetuating abuse. Nope, never happens.

Sarcasm over.

A person with half a brain can research each of these cases and learn the horrendous truth. There are court filings and news articles for each. Of course they won’t call it SRA (they get called “crazy” by jackhats when they do), but it’s obviously happening & related/overlaps.

If you don’t see “proof”, you must want to be blind. The lying or pretending it doesn’t happen is astounding. Normalcy bias is clearly alive & well! Or is there another agenda by those who pretend it doesn’t happen?

Read over 300 pages of documentation/evidence for yourself here:

https://archive.org/details/INSTANCESOF ... ESUSCHRIST

[Gadianton Slayer]

If this isn’t what I think it is… then what is Jesus referring to?

…murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations…

3 Nephi 16:10 is specifically calling out those who have the fullness of His gospel and rejected it… which includes the LDS org.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I have no reason to believe that these things are not being dealt with. I think they are. And I think the first publications of evidence will be by our own church, about the abominations going on in our own church. First us, then the rest of the world.

I have a lot of reason to believe why they are not being dealt with. I feel they are intentionally being kept hidden. SRA goes to the top, that's why.

Then we will see who really leads this church.

Christ leads the pure in heart, but the LDS org has fulfilled the prophecies of many ancient scriptures. (2 Nephi 28, 3 Nephi 16:10, Mormon 8, Isaiah, Jeremiah 23, 2 Thess. 2:3-5, etc., etc.)

[Artaxerxes]

If this isn’t what I think it is… then what is Jesus referring to?

…murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations…

3 Nephi 16:10 is specifically calling out those who have the fullness of His gospel and rejected it… which includes the LDS org.

Oh, there are lots of people who rejected the fullness of the Lord's gospel and have engaged in terrible things. Many on this forum followed them before their works of darkness were exposed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PESWiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing ... _J._Vallow

[Juliet]

I have no reason to believe that these things are not being dealt with. I think they are. And I think the first publications of evidence will be by our own church, about the abominations going on in our own church. First us, then the rest of the world.

I have a lot of reason to believe why they are not being dealt with. I feel they are intentionally being kept hidden. SRA goes to the top, that's why.

Then we will see who really leads this church.

Christ leads the pure in heart, but the LDS org has fulfilled the prophecies of many ancient scriptures. (2 Nephi 28, 3 Nephi 16:10, Mormon 8, Isaiah, Jeremiah 23, 2 Thess. 2:3-5, etc., etc.)

All I know is the church gave me a chance. So I am going to give them a chance.

[Gadianton Slayer]

If this isn’t what I think it is… then what is Jesus referring to?

…murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations…

3 Nephi 16:10 is specifically calling out those who have the fullness of His gospel and rejected it… which includes the LDS org.

Oh, there are lots of people who rejected the fullness of the Lord's gospel and have engaged in terrible things. Many on this forum followed them before their works of darkness were exposed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PESWiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing ... _J._Vallow

None of which excludes your leaders.

[AtevoProst]

Both of your comments (Art/Sub) speak volumes as to how you approach information. You guys have a nice day.

You approach information from the available evidence, and then come to a conclusion based on the available evidence.

You are pursuing a "Guilty until Proven Innocent" clause which goes counter to the principles of the Constitution.

When someone accuses another of a crime or tort, you have to provide the evidence that that person is guilty of the crime or tort. Without this, the prosecutor will be laughed out of court.

Sub, I've read extensively on SRA, there is plenty of "evidence" if you choose to go down that path. You also have to recognize that much of what you read has to be seen in a certain light. Secret societies and combinations work in darkness. The techniques used to break a person make it very difficult to "prove" anything in a court of law, yet there is still substantial evidence. That is why they use the techniques that they do. Kind of like the ice bullet theory.

And I do not follow the notion that people are guilty until proven innocent. I strive to give all people the benefit of the doubt. I truly wish that SRA didn't exist, especially w/in the church, but that is just not the case. Judges and politicians are extremely corrupt. The judicial system is the same. The church owns the government in Utah, so good luck trying to "prove" anything.

Agreed.
A fun (not so fun) game is to do a little research online into those charged & sentenced with sex crimes in Utah. Talk about a window into the soul of a deeply corrupt Utah criminal court system of judges! If it even makes it to trial at all.

There is news report after news report revealing dark dark combinations that few want to admit in our so-called Christian state.
The truth is this:
Most rapists, child sodomizers, molesters, pornographers, etc—only get probation. That’s the Utah way. If they do “jail time” at all, it’s in the State Hospital and for a tiny fraction of the sentence recommended. Multiple crimes even. Utah judges consistently give the LOWEST sentences possible for the most heinous crimes, especially against children.

I dare anyone to dispute this.

[Artaxerxes]

If this isn’t what I think it is… then what is Jesus referring to?

…murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations…

3 Nephi 16:10 is specifically calling out those who have the fullness of His gospel and rejected it… which includes the LDS org.

Oh, there are lots of people who rejected the fullness of the Lord's gospel and have engaged in terrible things. Many on this forum followed them before their works of darkness were exposed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PESWiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing ... _J._Vallow

None of which excludes your leaders.

The lack of evidence, however....

[Gadianton Slayer]

If this isn’t what I think it is… then what is Jesus referring to?

3 Nephi 16:10 is specifically calling out those who have the fullness of His gospel and rejected it… which includes the LDS org.

Oh, there are lots of people who rejected the fullness of the Lord's gospel and have engaged in terrible things. Many on this forum followed them before their works of darkness were exposed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PESWiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing ... _J._Vallow

None of which excludes your leaders.

The lack of evidence, however....

Lack of what you have found, who you know, and what you consider evidence.

[AtevoProst]

https://www.defendingutah.org/post/2019 ... g-in-utah/

“During the late 1980’s and early 1990’s local leaders (Bishops) in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had members in large enough numbers report they were victims of Satanic ritual abuse (SRA) that the little known Strengthening the Members Committee assigned Bishop Glenn L. Pace of the presiding Bishopric to investigate. Bishop Pace submitted his report to the committee in July of 1990 and about a year later the report was leaked to local media.

“In this report, Defending Utah discusses the reports specifics and takes callers comments and questions. The full memo is included below.”

According to the memo itself, all of the "victims" were crazy. The allegations were all investigated, and all found to be false.
http://www.saferchildren.net/print/utahag.pdf

These things simply never happened.

"The church has investigated itself and has found nothing wrong"

Or you could click on the link before commenting? Maybe? Because the church didn't investigate itself. Law enforcement did. And none of the events happened. Not one.

Here’s some evidence. Were the jurors who convicted all “crazy” too? Were the family members who testified all “crazy”? Do I get to join your band of “crazy”?

Throwing that word around is dishonest, extremely non empathetic & unprincipled.

There is SRA in Utah. There are real victims. You are wrong.

Hadfield case...This monster ritually abused his own children who testified against him:

[Artaxerxes]

Both of your comments (Art/Sub) speak volumes as to how you approach information. You guys have a nice day.

You approach information from the available evidence, and then come to a conclusion based on the available evidence.

You are pursuing a "Guilty until Proven Innocent" clause which goes counter to the principles of the Constitution.

When someone accuses another of a crime or tort, you have to provide the evidence that that person is guilty of the crime or tort. Without this, the prosecutor will be laughed out of court.

Sub, I've read extensively on SRA, there is plenty of "evidence" if you choose to go down that path. You also have to recognize that much of what you read has to be seen in a certain light. Secret societies and combinations work in darkness. The techniques used to break a person make it very difficult to "prove" anything in a court of law, yet there is still substantial evidence. That is why they use the techniques that they do. Kind of like the ice bullet theory.

And I do not follow the notion that people are guilty until proven innocent. I strive to give all people the benefit of the doubt. I truly wish that SRA didn't exist, especially w/in the church, but that is just not the case. Judges and politicians are extremely corrupt. The judicial system is the same. The church owns the government in Utah, so good luck trying to "prove" anything.

Agreed.
A fun (not so fun) game is to do a little research online into those charged & sentenced with sex crimes in Utah. Talk about a window into the soul of a deeply corrupt Utah criminal court system of judges! If it even makes it to trial at all.

There is news report after news report revealing dark dark combinations that few want to admit in our so-called Christian state.
The truth is this:
Most rapists, child sodomizers, molesters, pornographers, etc—only get probation. That’s the Utah way. If they do “jail time” at all, it’s in the State Hospital and for a tiny fraction of the sentence recommended. Multiple crimes even. Utah judges consistently give the LOWEST sentences possible for the most heinous crimes, especially against children.

I dare anyone to dispute this.

Okay.

The State of Utah is starting to feel the strain from harsh sentencing laws targeting sex offenders that it passed in recent years. While most states are enjoying a decline in prison populations in the last decade, Utah's counts are rising, as sex crime offenders fill up 42 percent more beds than they did 10 years ago. Sex offenders now make up one-third of the state's prison population, the largest group of offenders in the state's system, according to research compiled by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

In 2012, lawmakers passed tough new laws calling for 25 years to life mandatory sentences for child rape, and other child-related sex crimes carry harsh penalties as well. The top two offenses for prisoners in Utah are now aggravated sexual abuse of a child and sexual abuse of a child, sentences for which having grown by 87 percent and 21 percent, respectively, since 2004. According to Utah Board of Pardons and Parole member Clark Harms, the number is going to keep rising, until the state's prisons will have be reserved exclusively for killers and sex offenders. "If that's where we want to be, fine," he told the state's Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice.

The harsh sentencing schemes filling up the prison system exist despite data that shows that 78 percent of sex offenders imprisoned in Utah had no prior convictions. According to a 2003 report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, sex offenders are less likely than other offenders to be rearrested for any crime after their release: only 5 percent of sex offenders were arrested for another sex crime within three years, and for child molesters it was only 3 percent, according to the same report.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/20 ... g-prisons/