Gileadi’s Thoughts On Whether the Church Has the Priesthood

[SeekWisdom]

Posted recently on Isaiah Institute social media.

“From Avraham’s Mailbox

Question: If we (LDS) are the covenant people in the scriptures how did Brigham Young and everyone after him obtain the keys necessary for baptism if he/they did not rise to the level of a prophet? How do we have the keys to perform this basic ordinance? Can we still be labeled as covenant people without the priesthood? My understanding is we have the Aaronic but not the Melchizedek priesthood. But even then, how? Is there somewhere in the scriptures that points out how we can have this baptismal covenant without the proper means of authority, and still claim the label as God’s covenant people? Don’t the scriptures teach that only Jesus Christ himself can administer the fulness of the priesthood? How can we distinguish between false prophets and prophets called of God?

Answer: Unfortunately, the premise on which your questions are based relies on the teachings of an apostate group that is perverting many well-documented facts relating to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is arrogating to itself powers or authorities it does not possess in the pattern of other apostate groups over the years that fulfill Jesus’ prediction of false prophets and false Christs that would arise in the last days to deceive the people. Their members have lost the Holy Spirit, which Holy Spirit is evident in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is itself a sign that follows baptism for the remission of sins by one having authority.

Before his death, the prophet Joseph Smith bestowed the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood on the quorum of the twelve and charged them to administer the affairs of the church including ministering in the priesthood. It is true that only Jesus Christ bestows the keys of translation, which translation was received by Moses, Elijah, and others. But pertaining to baptism and ordination to the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, those authorities have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.

Although Book of Mormon prophets who saw our day cite many faults among the Ephraimite Gentiles—who comprise those whom Jesus calls “my people who are of the covenant” (3 Nephi 21:11), whom Nephi chastens for assuming “all is well in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24–25)—a lack of priesthood authority isn’t one of them. Rather, such faults consist of subscribing to precepts of men (2 Nephi 28:14–16, 26–32), bringing forth evil fruit (Jacob 5:32, 37), and polluting “the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38). And yet, it is out of this church that arise the Ephraimite Gentiles’ spiritual kings and queens who restore the house of Israel (Isaiah 49:23–23; 2 Nephi 10:7–9).”

Not sure if this is his own thoughts or some writer working at Isaiah Institute.

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

[Luke]

Sounds like Avraham. He answers his own emails.

[nightlight]

Bro can't see the forest for the trees

[cab]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

[Niemand]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

The LDS has no monopoly on healings and revelation.

[Mamabear]

“Rather, such faults consist of subscribing to precepts of men (2 Nephi 28:14–16, 26–32), bringing forth evil fruit (Jacob 5:32, 37), and polluting “the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38). And yet, it is out of this church that arise the Ephraimite Gentiles’ spiritual kings and queens who restore the house of Israel (Isaiah 49:23–23; 2 Nephi 10:7–9).”
This is what he is saying we are doing wrong. These things hinder the priesthood.
The below question and answer is also interesting:

“Question: I have always wanted to follow the prophet but I’m having difficulty doing so recently. My friends say the prophet will never lead people astray because if he did the Lord would take him away. Is this true?

Answer: The beliefs that we should follow a prophet and that a prophet of God won’t lead people astray are not scriptural. On the contrary, the scriptures teach that we should follow Jesus Christ, not a man. If we don’t, we may get embroiled in keeping a lesser law. As the times we live in are characterized by deception and life-threatening situations, these are divinely calculated to weed out the foolish virgins who are deceived from the wise who know Jesus.

As we are meant to act and not be acted upon, it is for us to deal personally with challenges. If not, how shall we ascend above a terrestrial glory? Many scriptural precedents and prophecies exist of political and ecclesiastical leaders’ leading people astray in times of wickedness. Typical of this are Jesus’ day and the time before his second coming. Jesus has a personalized answer to our challenges in every situation. Why not trust in it and go forward in faith?”

[GüdFüdDude]

A collection of such Isaiah institute posts is gathered here.

https://isaiahinstitute.com/blog/

There are 9** pages of 12 posts per page.

Have a pen ready, for comments you want to come back to. Otherwise you'll have that lousy so common experience of, dang it, where did I read that recently, I want to come back to that idea again.

Some seem to be written by staff.

They are undated posts*, which is unfortunate.

Whether AG gets it all right, or not, no quibbles here, I'm grateful for the attempt, as well as the motivation to start searching Isaiah for myself, with great hope I'm finally going to understand it.

*Edit: posts are now dated. Must have happened this morning. I actually sent in a comment to them a couple days ago about adding post dates. So, a very responsive operation. Good sign! Go buy some books. I have no ties.

**Edit 2: that is, a couple days ago, there were 9, cuz I went thru them all. Today, there are only 3. It's cuz not all blog categories are exposed in the interface. For ex, there's one called Love Isaiah! that brings up 4 more of the missing pages. Try messing with the url eg /category/love-isaiah/

[BuriedTartaria]

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

I will walk with Snuffer over Gileadi anyday. Gileadi is looking like controlled alternative-thinking by the LDS church now. Re-baptized into the LDS church, sustains them (as you can see here) but argues for modern-day problems inside of it. He is giving people who want to stay in old ship Zion but also be critical of it material to enjoy. That suits the LDS church ("have your problems with the institution, but at the end of the day, still sustain us and our titles and our robes and priesthoods and stay in the ship"). Gileadi is compromised.

Time will show that Snuffer is the real deal.

[SeekWisdom]

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

I will walk with Snuffer over Gileadi anyday. Gileadi is looking like controlled alternative-thinking by the LDS church now. Re-baptized into the LDS church, sustains them (as you can see here) but argues for modern-day problems inside of it. He is giving people who want to stay in old ship Zion but also be critical of it material to enjoy. That suits the LDS church ("have your problems with the institution, but at the end of the day, still sustain us and our titles and our robes and priesthoods and stay in the ship"). Gileadi is compromised.

Time will show that Snuffer is the real deal.

I will always be appreciative of Gileadi because his work in Isaiah has been the catalyst of my desire to search Isaiah myself. He as well as other Jewish Christian rabbis have opened up my studies of the scriptures in a deeply meaningful way.

But I definitely believe that the Lord is working through Snuffer and perhaps other groups throughout the world to help the ephraimite kings and queens to rise above the corruption and seek to gather Israel. So Gileadi is right, it’s out of the church that these ephraimite kings and queens come out of, and that is already happening. But, that doesn’t make these kings and queens that come out any less vulnerable to pride, etc and Isaiah’s words can easily apply to us, where we become corrupted as well. So we always need to be watchful of our own thoughts, words, and deeds.

[InfoWarrior82]

The follow up question should be: "Did we lose the melchizidek priesthood?" or "did the church lose power and authority in the priesthood due to wickedness?"

[BuriedTartaria]

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

I will walk with Snuffer over Gileadi anyday. Gileadi is looking like controlled alternative-thinking by the LDS church now. Re-baptized into the LDS church, sustains them (as you can see here) but argues for modern-day problems inside of it. He is giving people who want to stay in old ship Zion but also be critical of it material to enjoy. That suits the LDS church ("have your problems with the institution, but at the end of the day, still sustain us and our titles and our robes and priesthoods and stay in the ship"). Gileadi is compromised.

Time will show that Snuffer is the real deal.

I will always be appreciative of Gileadi because his work in Isaiah has been the catalyst of my desire to search Isaiah myself. He as well as other Jewish Christian rabbis have opened up my studies of the scriptures in a deeply meaningful way.

But I definitely believe that the Lord is working through Snuffer and perhaps other groups throughout the world to help the ephraimite kings and queens to rise above the corruption and seek to gather Israel. So Gileadi is right, it’s out of the church that these ephraimite kings and queens come out of, and that is already happening. But, that doesn’t make these kings and queens that come out any less vulnerable to pride, etc and Isaiah’s words can easily apply to us, where we become corrupted as well. So we always need to be watchful of our own thoughts, words, and deeds.

I didn’t mean to sound too harsh on Gileadi. I appreciate work he is done as well. I feel similar to your conclusions on who God is working with these days and I’m praying more people will achieve the worthiness needed for God to manifest Himself and minister to, allowing more people to stand as prophetic witnesses of what God is doing in our day

[Gadianton Slayer]

The LDS has no monopoly on revelation.

That’s not what Rasband thinks.

• ”We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time.”

(October 2021 GC)

[Sarah]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

Try the Ensign (now the Liahona). And read all the manuals. Lots of stories. I've experienced all of the above myself.

[Niemand]

The LDS has no monopoly on revelation.

That’s not what Rasband thinks.

• ”We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time.”

(October 2021 GC)

The trouble with the LDS is that it only believes in three types of revelation:

* Praying to know the BoM, and thus church, is true to get you to join.
* Some personal matters which don't affect other people- except maybe girlfriends and close family.
* What comes from the Head Honchos.

The second one isn't entirely true either. If you got revelation not to get the jab then that's not good enough. Then the third applies. I think you yourself had revelations which led you where you are now on your mission.

[cab]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

Try the Ensign (now the Liahona). And read all the manuals. Lots of stories. I've experienced all of the above myself.

I have. And what we call miracles, like the lights coming on in time to save a regional fireside or getting all the ordinances done before shutting down for Covid don’t count as miracles.

Sorry.

I believe you you’ve experienced those things. So have I. And so have many people outside of Mormonism. They follow faith in Jesus.

But when was the last time we spoke openly in our conferences about visitations of angels, or the Lord, or revealed mysteries? What revelations have been received like unto Joseph, Lehi, Nephi, and Alma? When has our prophet prophesied in the name of the Lord? Where have apostolic healing is taken place, like curing the blind or the maimed or the causing the dead to rise? These are what accompany The fullness of the priesthood. And it is simply not with us

[Gadianton Slayer]

The LDS has no monopoly on revelation.

That’s not what Rasband thinks.

• ”We are distinguished as a Church to be led by prophets, seers, and revelators called of God for this time.”

(October 2021 GC)

The trouble with the LDS is that it only believes in three types of revelation:

* Praying to know the BoM, and thus church, is true to get you to join.
* Some personal matters which don't affect other people- except maybe girlfriends and close family.
* What comes from the Head Honchos.

The second one isn't entirely true either. If you got revelation not to get the jab then that's not good enough. Then the third applies. I think you yourself had revelations which led you where you are now on your mission.

Remember, option 2 doesn't matter if it contradicts option 3.

I certainly feel that I have reflection on my past has led me to believe that I never really "knew" many things were "true", even though I would testify of them. Even the BoM until recently. It was easy to just pick a couple of verses that sound good and tell everyone that you "know" of its truthfulness... when in reality studying it has now led me out of the church. Many times I declared that I "knew" RMN was a prophet of god, and that we should obey him even when we don't understand the reasons.

I've learned to be wary of absolutes

[Mamabear]

Posted recently on Isaiah Institute social media.

“From Avraham’s Mailbox

Question: If we (LDS) are the covenant people in the scriptures how did Brigham Young and everyone after him obtain the keys necessary for baptism if he/they did not rise to the level of a prophet? How do we have the keys to perform this basic ordinance? Can we still be labeled as covenant people without the priesthood? My understanding is we have the Aaronic but not the Melchizedek priesthood. But even then, how? Is there somewhere in the scriptures that points out how we can have this baptismal covenant without the proper means of authority, and still claim the label as God’s covenant people? Don’t the scriptures teach that only Jesus Christ himself can administer the fulness of the priesthood? How can we distinguish between false prophets and prophets called of God?

Answer: Unfortunately, the premise on which your questions are based relies on the teachings of an apostate group that is perverting many well-documented facts relating to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is arrogating to itself powers or authorities it does not possess in the pattern of other apostate groups over the years that fulfill Jesus’ prediction of false prophets and false Christs that would arise in the last days to deceive the people. Their members have lost the Holy Spirit, which Holy Spirit is evident in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is itself a sign that follows baptism for the remission of sins by one having authority.

Before his death, the prophet Joseph Smith bestowed the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood on the quorum of the twelve and charged them to administer the affairs of the church including ministering in the priesthood. It is true that only Jesus Christ bestows the keys of translation, which translation was received by Moses, Elijah, and others. But pertaining to baptism and ordination to the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, those authorities have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.

Although Book of Mormon prophets who saw our day cite many faults among the Ephraimite Gentiles—who comprise those whom Jesus calls “my people who are of the covenant” (3 Nephi 21:11), whom Nephi chastens for assuming “all is well in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24–25)—a lack of priesthood authority isn’t one of them. Rather, such faults consist of subscribing to precepts of men (2 Nephi 28:14–16, 26–32), bringing forth evil fruit (Jacob 5:32, 37), and polluting “the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38). And yet, it is out of this church that arise the Ephraimite Gentiles’ spiritual kings and queens who restore the house of Israel (Isaiah 49:23–23; 2 Nephi 10:7–9).”

Not sure if this is his own thoughts or some writer working at Isaiah Institute.

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

This specific post was not answered by Avraham himself. It was by someone named Cameron Meyer.
You can scroll down on this page and see which ones are answered by Avraham.
The reason I checked was because it didn’t sound like like him.
https://isaiahinstitute.com/category/avrahams-mailbox/

[SeekWisdom]

Posted recently on Isaiah Institute social media.

“From Avraham’s Mailbox

Question: If we (LDS) are the covenant people in the scriptures how did Brigham Young and everyone after him obtain the keys necessary for baptism if he/they did not rise to the level of a prophet? How do we have the keys to perform this basic ordinance? Can we still be labeled as covenant people without the priesthood? My understanding is we have the Aaronic but not the Melchizedek priesthood. But even then, how? Is there somewhere in the scriptures that points out how we can have this baptismal covenant without the proper means of authority, and still claim the label as God’s covenant people? Don’t the scriptures teach that only Jesus Christ himself can administer the fulness of the priesthood? How can we distinguish between false prophets and prophets called of God?

Answer: Unfortunately, the premise on which your questions are based relies on the teachings of an apostate group that is perverting many well-documented facts relating to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is arrogating to itself powers or authorities it does not possess in the pattern of other apostate groups over the years that fulfill Jesus’ prediction of false prophets and false Christs that would arise in the last days to deceive the people. Their members have lost the Holy Spirit, which Holy Spirit is evident in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is itself a sign that follows baptism for the remission of sins by one having authority.

Before his death, the prophet Joseph Smith bestowed the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood on the quorum of the twelve and charged them to administer the affairs of the church including ministering in the priesthood. It is true that only Jesus Christ bestows the keys of translation, which translation was received by Moses, Elijah, and others. But pertaining to baptism and ordination to the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, those authorities have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.

Although Book of Mormon prophets who saw our day cite many faults among the Ephraimite Gentiles—who comprise those whom Jesus calls “my people who are of the covenant” (3 Nephi 21:11), whom Nephi chastens for assuming “all is well in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24–25)—a lack of priesthood authority isn’t one of them. Rather, such faults consist of subscribing to precepts of men (2 Nephi 28:14–16, 26–32), bringing forth evil fruit (Jacob 5:32, 37), and polluting “the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38). And yet, it is out of this church that arise the Ephraimite Gentiles’ spiritual kings and queens who restore the house of Israel (Isaiah 49:23–23; 2 Nephi 10:7–9).”

Not sure if this is his own thoughts or some writer working at Isaiah Institute.

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

This specific post was not answered by Avraham himself. It was by someone named Cameron Meyer.
You can scroll down on this page and see which ones are answered by Avraham.
The reason I checked was because it didn’t sound like like him.
https://isaiahinstitute.com/category/avrahams-mailbox/

It seems then that Gileadi hasn’t posted anything since March 2021 (almost a year now) on that blog. But I can imagine that Cameron is mostly aligned with Gileadi’s thoughts.

[GeeR]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

Try the Ensign (now the Liahona). And read all the manuals. Lots of stories. I've experienced all of the above myself.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt. 7:22-23)

I think the reason the Lord spurned these devotes is because their so called wonderful works were rationalized mental gymnastics! Besides the church admits it lies all the time. When they say we should always make the gospel and our history "faith promoting" while the bad stuff will be hidden in the vault of the First Presidency or at least not published in official church literature. The Gospel Topics Essays are a joke because the leaders call it "transparent" when they won't even mention them in General Conference and won't be up front enough to tell investigators, when the missionaries are teaching them, about them. So after a few years in the church these church newbies realize they were blind sighted by the crap they have found when they do learn of the Gospel Topics Essays, then they feel betrayed and leave.

So is the church still lying about the transition crisis when church leadership was transferred to Brigham Young by having his face "transform" into Joseph Smith's face? If they are then no wonder the brethren were deceived by Mark Hofmann who forged a letter saying an amphibious salamander was "transformed" into the angel Moroni. I guess the brethren weren't smart enough to know "you cannot make silk purse from a sows ear." Gee, my grand children knew that, why didn't the brethren? It could have saved a couple of lives from Hofmann's bombs!

[Mamabear]

Posted recently on Isaiah Institute social media.

“From Avraham’s Mailbox

Question: If we (LDS) are the covenant people in the scriptures how did Brigham Young and everyone after him obtain the keys necessary for baptism if he/they did not rise to the level of a prophet? How do we have the keys to perform this basic ordinance? Can we still be labeled as covenant people without the priesthood? My understanding is we have the Aaronic but not the Melchizedek priesthood. But even then, how? Is there somewhere in the scriptures that points out how we can have this baptismal covenant without the proper means of authority, and still claim the label as God’s covenant people? Don’t the scriptures teach that only Jesus Christ himself can administer the fulness of the priesthood? How can we distinguish between false prophets and prophets called of God?

Answer: Unfortunately, the premise on which your questions are based relies on the teachings of an apostate group that is perverting many well-documented facts relating to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is arrogating to itself powers or authorities it does not possess in the pattern of other apostate groups over the years that fulfill Jesus’ prediction of false prophets and false Christs that would arise in the last days to deceive the people. Their members have lost the Holy Spirit, which Holy Spirit is evident in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which is itself a sign that follows baptism for the remission of sins by one having authority.

Before his death, the prophet Joseph Smith bestowed the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood on the quorum of the twelve and charged them to administer the affairs of the church including ministering in the priesthood. It is true that only Jesus Christ bestows the keys of translation, which translation was received by Moses, Elijah, and others. But pertaining to baptism and ordination to the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, those authorities have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.

Although Book of Mormon prophets who saw our day cite many faults among the Ephraimite Gentiles—who comprise those whom Jesus calls “my people who are of the covenant” (3 Nephi 21:11), whom Nephi chastens for assuming “all is well in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24–25)—a lack of priesthood authority isn’t one of them. Rather, such faults consist of subscribing to precepts of men (2 Nephi 28:14–16, 26–32), bringing forth evil fruit (Jacob 5:32, 37), and polluting “the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38). And yet, it is out of this church that arise the Ephraimite Gentiles’ spiritual kings and queens who restore the house of Israel (Isaiah 49:23–23; 2 Nephi 10:7–9).”

Not sure if this is his own thoughts or some writer working at Isaiah Institute.

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

This specific post was not answered by Avraham himself. It was by someone named Cameron Meyer.
You can scroll down on this page and see which ones are answered by Avraham.
The reason I checked was because it didn’t sound like like him.
https://isaiahinstitute.com/category/avrahams-mailbox/

It seems then that Gileadi hasn’t posted anything since March 2021 (almost a year now) on that blog. But I can imagine that Cameron is mostly aligned with Gileadi’s thoughts.

I disagree. I have many of Gileadi’s books. He talks a lot about corrupt leaders. That’s why when I read the post it didn’t sound like him. He also has a pod cast called Isaiah institute where he dissects each chapter of Isaiah.

[Teancum]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

Try the Ensign (now the Liahona). And read all the manuals. Lots of stories. I've experienced all of the above myself.

I have. And what we call miracles, like the lights coming on in time to save a regional fireside or getting all the ordinances done before shutting down for Covid don’t count as miracles.

Sorry.

I believe you you’ve experienced those things. So have I. And so have many people outside of Mormonism. They follow faith in Jesus.

But when was the last time we spoke openly in our conferences about visitations of angels, or the Lord, or revealed mysteries? What revelations have been received like unto Joseph, Lehi, Nephi, and Alma? When has our prophet prophesied in the name of the Lord? Where have apostolic healing is taken place, like curing the blind or the maimed or the causing the dead to rise? These are what accompany The fullness of the priesthood. And it is simply not with us

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... k?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

[Sarah]

“ have continued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as evidenced by the manifestation among its members of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of Promise, healings, visions, revelations, visitations, and so forth.”

Really? Sounds great!

So where can I read about these mighty charismatic scriptural-type events that are apparently commonplace among our members?

Try the Ensign (now the Liahona). And read all the manuals. Lots of stories. I've experienced all of the above myself.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt. 7:22-23)

I think the reason the Lord spurned these devotes is because their so called wonderful works were rationalized mental gymnastics! Besides the church admits it lies all the time. When they say we should always make the gospel and our history "faith promoting" while the bad stuff will be hidden in the vault of the First Presidency or at least not published in official church literature. The Gospel Topics Essays are a joke because the leaders call it "transparent" when they won't even mention them in General Conference and won't be up front enough to tell investigators, when the missionaries are teaching them, about them. So after a few years in the church these church newbies realize they were blind sighted by the crap they have found when they do learn of the Gospel Topics Essays, then they feel betrayed and leave.

So is the church still lying about the transition crisis when church leadership was transferred to Brigham Young by having his face "transform" into Joseph Smith's face? If they are then no wonder the brethren were deceived by Mark Hofmann who forged a letter saying an amphibious salamander was "transformed" into the angel Moroni. I guess the brethren weren't smart enough to know "you cannot make silk purse from a sows ear." Gee, my grand children knew that, why didn't the brethren? It could have saved a couple of lives from Hofmann's bombs!

I realize the church has been highly imperfect throughout it's history. And I agree that just because one has had spiritual manifestations, doesn't mean they are on the right path. Especially myself!

I look at the beginnings of the church like the beginnings of a marriage. It takes a while to get to know one another, and it took some time for not only Joseph, but for the Saints to get to know the Lord and work together. He didn't reveal everything about himself and all his laws and ordinances all at once. We know there are still laws and ordinances not revealed yet. So there was some stumbling around as far as how to implement every law or commandment that was revealed, and distinguishing between what was commanded, and to whom it was commanded, and what could be done, and to whom it could be done, with the priesthood keys given to Joseph and then to the twelve. Lots of speculation and tradition crept in or was there from the beginning, just like in a new marriage when each comes in with preconceived notions of what to expect or what the other should do etc. We have to learn these things by the spirit, which is what Joseph told Brigham. By no means do I think our current crop of apostles are perfect, but they are legal and I feel they are sincere.

In my opinion, the church was never "divorced" like it was in the days of the first apostles, because we still have apostles, and priesthood keys, wherein back then all the apostles were killed, and the Lord allowed those Priesthood keys to be lost. I know there's lots of debate about that and if our prophets are still valid, but that's my testimony anyway, that the priesthood ordinances are still valid and legal in the Lord's eyes, because Brigham and every prophet and apostle after him held the Keys of the Kingdom, and could do whatever the Lord commanded for his covenant people. They just didn't always do everything in a wise or timely way for one reason or another, and let their weaknesses and preconceived notions creep in sometimes. Just like my husband and myself! But our marriage is still valid and legal despite our weaknesses.

[GeeR]

But our marriage is still valid and legal despite our weaknesses.

Well I also thought my marriage to my wife was "valid and legal" in 1973 in the Salt Lake Temple but when the "fulness of the priesthood was lost" and the "church was rejected" (D&C 124:28,32) through transgression, then you realize that your eternal marriage was just a sham, no better or worse than being married in Las Vegas at one of those cheesy quicky chapels.

[Sarah]

But our marriage is still valid and legal despite our weaknesses.

Well I also thought my marriage to my wife was "valid and legal" in 1973 in the Salt Lake Temple but when the "fulness of the priesthood was lost" and the "church was rejected" (D&C 124:28,32) through transgression, then you realize that your eternal marriage was just a sham, no better or worse than being married in Las Vegas at one of those cheesy quicky chapels.

Well, I think you already know that you make your marriage eternal by the way you live your marriage and keep the laws of God. Nothing wrong with a marriage in Las Vegas, it will just need to be sealed someday through the ordinance, and then the covenants kept.

[oneClimbs]

Update: Want to know your thoughts and whether you agree with his statements. He seems to be alluding to Snuffer and Phil Davis groups.

I will walk with Snuffer over Gileadi anyday. Gileadi is looking like controlled alternative-thinking by the LDS church now. Re-baptized into the LDS church, sustains them (as you can see here) but argues for modern-day problems inside of it. He is giving people who want to stay in old ship Zion but also be critical of it material to enjoy. That suits the LDS church ("have your problems with the institution, but at the end of the day, still sustain us and our titles and our robes and priesthoods and stay in the ship"). Gileadi is compromised.

Time will show that Snuffer is the real deal.

I know the guy, and he's not "compromised." The life's work that the man has done on Isaiah is a massive blessing to the world. I think that he plays it careful to balance people not rejecting his work because they don't like him personally. More than anything, he wants people to study Isaiah and has produced his own translation and written many things to help people understand.

He gives his translation away for free, along with the entire content of one of his books on IsaiahExplained.com. I built that site with him when he reached out to me for a blog post that I did criticizing the design of his old site. So we built a new one together, he sent me four of his books and told me that it takes about 2 years of study to really get to the point where you can understand Isaiah's message. I took him up on that and it's been a massive blessing to this day.

I've met with him in person, talked to him on the phone, and just like anyone he's another mortal dude like we all are. But I wouldn't dismiss his work. I wish I could share more, but again, I wouldn't call this guy "compromised."

He wants the Latter-day Saints to know Isaiah's message and not be a distraction to that end. If you know Isaiah's message, and the Book of Mormon, you'll be able to see clearly and know what you need to do.