I can’t bring myself to date

[Cruiserdude]

Echo BroJones, welcome White. Because it seems so rare, it's always refreshing to see well-grounded young blood.

And I agree with the sentiment about "plenty of time." My honest opinion is that if we really knew what was around the corner, and when it will hit us, we would all be scurrying around like a bunch of ants preparing for winter. In my own preparations, I would much rather get some stuff, including relationships, in place in advance, than be scrambling around in a panic trying to making something happen from scratch once we're overwhelmed by it. And, I genuinely believe that relationships is one of the most important component of that whole equation. I would want to be mated up to a good, like-minded spouse who was on the same page, from a good, like-minded family, who become an important part of that network (which fortunately, I am).

On that score, I'm going to share an excerpt from a book series I am working on for a Plain Folk (Amish/Mennonite) audience, that includes discussion of this subject matter.

As you can imagine, when it came time for me to find a mate and get married, one of my highest priorities – and this was a matter of very proactive consideration and planning – was to find and marry a farm girl who would be comfortable, and share my own desire to live on the land, and to stay home, be a mother, and raise our children.

Even 40 years ago, that was a much bigger challenge for me in modern English society than it should be in Plain Folk culture where many girls still grow up on a farm, with very nurturing mothers, and typically want the same for their own children. But, in terms of beginning with the end in mind, long-term business and perpetuation planning begins even before you have any children. It really begins in earnest when you get married.

To help further illustrate this point, I am going to relate the story of Tobias, one of my youngish Amish acquaintances in Colorado. He grew up in the thick of Amish culture in Holmes County, Ohio. Because of his birth order and how things were going, there was no real chance that he was going to end up with the family farm, so he ultimately went to work for a neighbor who had a successful furniture shop. Although it was a good job, and he enjoyed it well enough on a temporary basis, he couldn’t really see himself doing that the rest of his life. But he had no idea what he really wanted to do. In the meantime, he enjoyed life as a young, single Amish man. Tobias had a steady girlfriend. And because he loved to hunt and fish, he saved up his money, and went to Colorado for an elk hunt. “That was a game changer for me,” he said. When he got back home, he promptly asked his girlfriend “how would you feel about moving to Colorado?” Her reaction turned out to be a deal-breaker, so they broke up. But at that point, he had better criteria for finding a new girlfriend and potential life mate. “By then, it was much more calculated on my part,” he said. “I didn’t want to waste any time with girls who weren’t going to be interested in moving to Colorado.” It took a little doing, but he eventually became aware of a girl who already had two sisters living in Colorado. Along with everything else that factors into such equations, that factor alone provided enough potential to ask her out, start dating, and getting to know each other. It didn’t take them long to get married, and seemingly even less time to move to Colorado, where they seem to be very happy. Although they were certainly not in a position to acquire some large, sprawling farm or ranch, right out of the chute, they now have a young family, and are building a nice place on rural acreage that fits the bill for them. He is a partner in a thriving business. They love the mountains and the big, wide open spaces. And they love living in the West.

The important point is that having compatible visions and sharing a fundamental long-term vision is a critical part of a happy, compatible marriage. Over the course of the past year I have met multiple young Amish wives who definitely fit the bill as help mate to their husbands, and they have been an inspiration to me, including Kathy Beiler, the daughter-in-law of Eli Beiler.

I was thrilled to finally have the opportunity to make the acquaintance of Eli Beiler. In addition to being a Western sheep farmer in Colorado, Eli and his sons are also commercial sheep shearers, who work for a western sheep shearing contractor. We had a real good visit. Among other things, Eli showed me the new goat dairy that his oldest son, Ray, and his wife, Kathy, had built, and explained their operation to me. I asked Eli how his son could possibly go shearing sheep in the Spring and run a goat dairy at the same time. Eli said there was a very simple answer to that question: “He’s got a very good wife,” who I had the opportunity to meet, and she confirmed that she quite enjoys the work and challenge of running and holding down the dairy when her husband is off shearing sheep. I asked Kathy what she thought of that, and was a little surprised at her response: “I love it. I love taking care of the dairy when Ray’s gone,” she said. “I do it so much better than he does,” she said with a twinkle in her eye, “because I am not as pressed for time, and I really enjoy doing it, so I wouldn’t have it any other way.” “But what about your young kids,” I asked. “It’s perfect,” she said, “just the way it’s meant to be; I’m training them right.”

It did my heart good to once again meet Amish women with such a willing, can-do attitude. I have been so happy to meet more and more Amish families in the West, and see the extent to which most of their communities are growing and thriving.

And, now I'm just going to throw something else out there. From what I understand, some younger women, including young, urban women, are waking up -- apparently much more so than most younger men. I have been paying attention to some of the fastest growing prepper sites, consultants, and services in the country, and they all say that whereas in the past their customers/clients were dominated by 50+ year-old men, now their single biggest customer/client demographics are younger women, including a lot of younger urban women, who are starting to wake up and read the writing on the wall, and figuring out that they better start thinking about how best to get buckled-up for what it inevitably around the corner.

I find this interesting, and worthwhile food for thought and hope on this topic.

'Plain Folk'... I love it, I love your stories about them, to me, they feel like modern day pioneers and these fine 'plain folk' that truly 'live their religion' through their own free will and agency motivate me to want to be better at living what I claim to believe ...and motivate me to want to truly set EVERY aspect of my life up in a way that would honor our Master.
I've been in SE corner of Kansas working these last few months(now I'm wanting to move here: with land as cheap as it is and the fact that 'Babylon' hasn't crept into the small town wards/culture like it has the bigger city wards and areas) and I regularly see 'Plain folk' (the Anabaptists types) around here. Their meekness and simplicity and humbleness just captivate me. I'm in awe that in today's world of instant gratification and convenience people still choose to live like them(i think deep down I'm just jealous that I'm not in a community of Mo's that set up their lives like the Anabaptists)

[Silas]

The thing is, once upon a time membership in the LDS Church provided some degree of commonality in terms of fundamental values, beliefs, grounding, etc. But at this point even the church is so all over the map and increasingly in bed with the world, that church membership provides less and less basis for any fundamental commonality.

Not only that but you typically end up with the worst of both worlds. She still wants you to be the breadwinner but she now expects you to do half of the cooking and cleaning and not make any decisions without her approval.

I’ve started telling guys they are better off with a straight up feminist than the average Mormon princess, because at least then she will chip in with the bills.

Only half?

You've got a keeper!

Sir H

Ha! I do now but I did not keep that one.

[JohnnyL]

...Or finding wives from foreign countries who will be basically accustomed to being abused...

Ha, you've obviously never been married to a wife from a foreign country!

I know many couples like this, and it's rarely that way, in fact, sometimes the opposite. Poor guys, never knew what they were getting into...

[JuneBug12000]

I know a few men how looked for LDS girls overseas, mostly under developed countries. They tend to have a more traditional mindset and are less materialistic as even a poor person in the USA lives better than most poor people in the world.

I know of someone in this same mindset. Just be aware that getting anyone into the good old U.S. A. can be problematic unless they want to come in from the southern border. My friend tells me it could take years for her to get here.

Well, my ex was from one of those underdeveloped countries. I can tell you that was not my personal experience at all.

In fact, she was much more materialistic than just about anyone I've ever met. She grew up dirt poor but refused to go without and it always had to be the fancy stores, no second-hand stores for her. SMH

Of course, what I have learned since then is that each individual is unique, and your culture only plays a part in who you truly are as an individual. Just because you were raised in poverty doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to be meek and humble, some are and some aren't. Just as if you are raised in poverty doesn't mean you can't be successful in life. The same goes for many of the generalities thrown around.

I remember a story about two brothers raised by an abusive drunk father, mother had left them at a very young age. Years went by, and one brother ended up in jail for life and the other ended up being a very successful white-collar worker. A reporter asked each of them a question: How did you end up like this when you were raised under the conditions that you were?

The brothers had been questioned individually and were unaware that this reporter had spoken to both of them.

Both brothers gave the same answer to her question. They both answered, "What do you expect being raised the way that I was." One brother seemed to use it as an excuse for the crimes that he had committed and had followed in his father's footsteps. The other brother used it to motivate him, and he vowed to never let his children go through the same experience. Both were raised in the same environment, culture, and opportunities. It's our choices that truly determine our character. Most people have baggage, how we deal with it, is what is truly important.

I can say that dating outside of the US is a much different experience, especially for older men. It is not uncommon to see men in their 50s and 60s dating women in their 20s. There is a huge social stigma here in the US about that, and it is not viewed well Stateside. The way foreign women see it is much different than how it is viewed here though.

For starters, many foreign women prefer older men for several practical reasons. First, and foremost is that older men are typically more stable and financially secure than younger men. These young women also understand that older men are less likely to be promiscuous and cheat on them, which is a huge problem in many of these underdeveloped countries. Additionally, they value the wisdom and experience that older men have and bring to the relationship especially when it comes to communication.

Here is what is not discussed a lot though. Most of these foreign women prefer the age gap to be minimal though (think 10-12 year gap) when they are being completely honest. However, in the poorest parts of the country, there are some that will date a man of any age due to how desperate they are. They know that if they can move to America, that they can provide their future posterity with a better life than they could ever hope to provide them in their own country. So, there is a strong motivation behind this. Of course, this opens the door for the woman to leave her husband once she has established citizenship, but this is not a common occurrence as some would have you believe. My educated guess is that some of these women truly love their husbands regardless of the age difference, and some just silently suffer in the marriage.

Of course, even in undeveloped countries, this is more nuanced. There seems to typically be a poor, middle, and upper class even in these countries. If the woman is considered upper class, the only reason she would ever be dating a foreigner is that she really has feelings for you, she doesn't gain anything socially or otherwise. The middle class is a toss-up, and the poor class is where the majority of foreign marriages happen.

I lived overseas for a while, so I picked up a few things, and find it interesting. I can definitely see the allure of dating overseas. Especially for older men who don't get the time of day from any woman Stateside. It is a breath of fresh air for them to be able to go on dates with an attractive young woman that is genuinely interested in them.

At the end of the day, most of us just want to be loved and be loved. How that happens is up to you. I think dating outside of the US is just as challenging as dating in the US it's just very different and has its pros and cons. I think the hardest thing for older men dating younger women is to find a woman that is marrying you for the right reasons, that is the real challenge. Sure, most men can get into a relationship and marry a foreign woman, but is the relationship genuine? That matters to me, and I think to most people. Just my 2 cents.

Hope this helps anyone out who is looking into dating overseas.

My 2 cents.

My first husband was from Mexico. At a family gathering the 5 adult siblings and 4 adult spouses agreed "if you can get away with it, it is ok." No caveats. They said it was "part of their culture." I asked if they thought that was compatible with the gospel. 8 of the 9 said yes. All active members their whole lives. Parents were currently serving a mission, helped build a temple, served in a temple presidency. 6 had served missions, some were going to BYU, all were working with "chocolate" papers. My ex did tell the truth when we were doing his paperwork to get residency. Paid a $2000 fine if I remember correctly for the working illegally. But only because I made him.

Culture matters.

Be wise.

(Also, bless the heart of my one sister in law who saw the truth! When school was over and her husband wanted to stay in the US illegally, she put her foot down and said they would go back to Mexico until they could come legally. She did not want to live in Mexico anymore, but she was so good and honest. They did end up getting to move to Texas after a few years back in Mexico. The Lord blessed her and her posterity and they will be able to live here legally ever after!)

[JohnnyL]

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus, but most people don't figure that out until it's too late, and in the meantime act mostly on all the hormones and the stuff that triggers them. It's called the Lord's great bait and switch.

A long-time married BYU ward bishop complained about this. It's all hormones until you get married and figured out you married an individual, lol. He literally spent half his time counseling married couples who wanted divorces (which meant most all were under four years, some just four months.)

[Chamberlain]

I can sympathize with you, I'm about the same age (mid-twenties) and had a similar mindset about women and my problems for a very long time.
I'm gonna speak harshly but honestly, hope you understand its because I love you.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not... In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven.

This was and always has been a women's default, weather LDS or not. These behaviors are exacerbated further by single parent homes, feminism and other cultural issues.
Your problem isn't because of them them though, its because of you.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

You're not acting like a man, this is the main problem. You're blaming women for your problems.

Stop letting women have control over you.

Even if there is not one women who has the character worthy of marriage left in the world, you should not be angry. Humanity is in a fallen state, this is not something they can control. You need to forgive and not resent, starting with your parents. Let go of your anger and insecurities.

She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back.

Women were just as bad any decade your parents or grandparents lived in. You're living in a fantasy and letting your thoughts control you.
Perhaps social media lets them act more unhinged and put it all out, but this is to your advantage because they're showing all their cards. This actually makes dating easier for strong men.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

You're acting like a beta for 'pursuing' marriage. Its as plain as day to see how angry and weak you are (not uncommon with men in our age group).
Stop letting these thoughts control you. Marriage is not something you plan out and pursue.

Because you're an angry person, you cannot be born of the Father.
The only thing you should be pursuing is being born of the Father and keeping that close relationship with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not and never is your thoughts. The Holy Spirit is perfect love and perfect peace.

When you truly follow God, you will abandon your will and pursuing the things you want to do. You will have faith in God and let him steer your life. If God blesses you with marriage, than you accept his blessings, if he doesn't than you accept it and have faith in him.
It is best to have a wait and see attitude, we don't know what God has in store for us.

View marriage more as a door that if you come across you may take. And if it doesn't you just keep walking. This is opposed to how you act now. You're wandering around desperate and confused in life in pursuit of it. You're angry and having resentment that you can't find it. You're making extreme and terrible decisions like letting yourself fall in romantic love with a women 20 years older than you, who is married with children and an abusive husband and letting it get to the point where you're receiving reciprocal feelings. Your a person who has no self control when it comes to relationships with women and are therefore not capable of leading them in marriage. You need to change, but you should not change because you want marriage or women.

You change because YOU want to follow God!

It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive.

Exactly true, and it starts here with you not being such a whiny beta complaining about women.

Give up your anger, forgive your parents, forgive your father so you can be born of the Father and love all. Become a man who is a light of the world. Give up all all thoughts, all thoughts are all lies and of the devil. When you have a problem us your brain to solve it, but then turn it off. It is a tool to be controlled.
Have faith in God and let him steer your path.

[tmac]

I've said it before, but the more certain and cock-sure a person (know-it-all) acts, the more skeptical and apprehensive I am. In my own case, the more I learn (including experience and observation) the less I know.

[gradles21]

The thing is, once upon a time membership in the LDS Church provided some degree of commonality in terms of fundamental values, beliefs, grounding, etc. But at this point even the church is so all over the map and increasingly in bed with the world, that church membership provides less and less basis for any fundamental commonality.

Not only that but you typically end up with the worst of both worlds. She still wants you to be the breadwinner but she now expects you to do half of the cooking and cleaning and not make any decisions without her approval.

I’ve started telling guys they are better off with a straight up feminist than the average Mormon princess, because at least then she will chip in with the bills.

Funny that you used the term "mormon princess" because one of my wife's high school friends divorced her husband for the crime of "not treating her enough like a princess."

[Luke]

The thing is, once upon a time membership in the LDS Church provided some degree of commonality in terms of fundamental values, beliefs, grounding, etc. But at this point even the church is so all over the map and increasingly in bed with the world, that church membership provides less and less basis for any fundamental commonality.

Not only that but you typically end up with the worst of both worlds. She still wants you to be the breadwinner but she now expects you to do half of the cooking and cleaning and not make any decisions without her approval.

I’ve started telling guys they are better off with a straight up feminist than the average Mormon princess, because at least then she will chip in with the bills.

Funny that you used the term "mormon princess" because one of my wife's high school friends divorced her husband for the crime of "not treating her enough like a princess."

Lol, I know a situation almost very similar to that... except that her princess attitude drove the guy away instead.

[harakim]

I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

Give up on marriage. None of the 144,000 will be married. People claim Jesus was married, but that seems questionable he would never mention that. Learn to live a life completely happy without a wife and you'll be much happier, even if you end up married later.

[jreuben]

I know a few young men in your same situation. They are sickened by the apostasy that oozes from all of the young women both that they have met in person and online. It seems as though there are very few options for finding very intelligent and well grounded decent girls now.

Further, I have heard horror stories about online dating services that used to be decent just a decade ago.

[tmac]

Let's face it, at this point the World is winning -- batting 1000 in fact.

All the worldly advice has been pretty interesting.

Let's not forget that God's first commandment to His children when he turned them loose in the mortal world was to "Be fruitful, multiply, and replenish the Earth." And to my knowledge He has never rescinded that commandment.

[abijah`]

The only times I ever had dating problems was when I had problems with myself, which would naturally-arise as I would date, which I had the choice of dealing-with myself, or blaming on someone else..

A man who has the rhythm-of-Spirit in himself = him who is capable of arousing that also in the woman, like the sun's light reflects on the moon, I don't expect any woman to act proper with me in reversed roles.

One creates the situation, the other resolves it.

[Chamberlain]

A man who has the rhythm-of-Spirit in himself = him who is capable of arousing that also in the woman, like the sun's light reflects on the moon, I don't expect any woman to act proper with me in reversed roles.

One creates the situation, the other resolves it.

Did you come up with that yourself? That was poetic.

When you follow God, women will naturally follow you!

[jreuben]

Lol. I guess it's too bad that so many young women don't follow God anymore who are available to date through socially normal dating mechanisms.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

This is a weird post!

[abijah`]

This is a weird post!

glad im not alone in thinking it

really weird..

[GreenPill]

Thanks to all for your feedback so far. I really just needed somewhere to express my feelings in these strange times, and there has been a lot of great advice given.

[tmac]

Maybe you can start dating Zach Wilson's ex.

She's a definite female role model.

Abbey Gile.jpg (7.57 KiB) Viewed 409 times

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64820

. . . . and looks like a woman on the hunt.

[Silas]

The thing is, once upon a time membership in the LDS Church provided some degree of commonality in terms of fundamental values, beliefs, grounding, etc. But at this point even the church is so all over the map and increasingly in bed with the world, that church membership provides less and less basis for any fundamental commonality.

Not only that but you typically end up with the worst of both worlds. She still wants you to be the breadwinner but she now expects you to do half of the cooking and cleaning and not make any decisions without her approval.

I’ve started telling guys they are better off with a straight up feminist than the average Mormon princess, because at least then she will chip in with the bills.

Funny that you used the term "mormon princess" because one of my wife's high school friends divorced her husband for the crime of "not treating her enough like a princess."

Oh how I wish I was being hyperbolic.

[Silas]

I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

Give up on marriage. None of the 144,000 will be married. People claim Jesus was married, but that seems questionable he would never mention that. Learn to live a life completely happy without a wife and you'll be much happier, even if you end up married later.

This is the path of cowards.

Become a husband, become a father, live forever.

[gradles21]

Maybe you can start dating Zach Wilson's ex.

She's a definite female role model.

Abbey Gile.jpg

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64820

. . . . and looks like a woman on the hunt.

On the hunt for more subscribers to her onlyfans account.

[BeNotDeceived]

Speaking of dates and silent H type people.

... the Lord told me to go look at this website ...

You and the Davidic Servant.

[GreenPill]

Maybe you can start dating Zach Wilson's ex.

She's a definite female role model.

Abbey Gile.jpg

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64820

. . . . and looks like a woman on the hunt.

Ick not really my type.

[JuneBug12000]

...Or finding wives from foreign countries who will be basically accustomed to being abused...

Ha, you've obviously never been married to a wife from a foreign country!

I know many couples like this, and it's rarely that way, in fact, sometimes the opposite. Poor guys, never knew what they were getting into...

I know an LDS guy who just recently divorced his Polynesian wife after only 1 year of marriage. She kept beating on him and he kept explaining that wasn't ok. But never hit her back. He tried to get her to counseling but she refused. So, he started the divorce process. Then she begged for counseling and he told her that ship had sailed.

I had a similar experience with my former husband from Mexico. Once the divorce was almost final (waiting period in Utah) he came and asked for the counseling he refused before, but it was too late. Plus, at that point I think he just wanted to finish his residency paperwork with the government.