"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
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kirtland r.m.
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"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by kirtland r.m. »

Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by BuriedTartaria »

I find this ironic because he’d also probably be killed/rejected/cancelled by today’s public and shadow leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

762X545
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by 762X545 »

Maybe they wouldn't kill because of what he knows per se, but more because of the scam he was running on them. And he knew it.

Peeps
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Peeps »

kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Maybe he was revealing secrets of the Masons. They also have secrets about the preexistence, but it is from Lucifer's perspective.

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Sarah
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

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kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Reminds me of this quote:

Brigham Young June 21, 1874
I will now say to my brethren and sisters, that while we were in Winter Quarters, the Lord gave to me a revelation just as much as he ever gave one to anybody. He opened my mind, and showed me the organization of the kingdom of God in a family capacity. I talked it to my brethren; I would throw out a few words here, and a few words there, to my first counselor, to my second counselor and the Twelve Apostles, but with the exception of one or two of the Twelve, it would not touch a man.

Bronco73idi
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

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762X545 wrote: December 7th, 2021, 5:54 pm Maybe they wouldn't kill because of what he knows per se, but more because of the scam he was running on them. And he knew it.
I’m sure you would do better. A con man would have ran.

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Robin Hood
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Robin Hood »

kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
What bothers me about this account is that it is 50 years after the event. Robert Horne appears to have no problem remembering details of what was said and by whom, to the point that he quotes the details of the conversation or statements, but can't remember who was there. To add to the mystery, he claims 11 of the 12 were there, and yet we know that couldn't be true because we know most of the apostles were out of town at that date.

MR. T
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

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762X545 wrote: December 7th, 2021, 5:54 pm Maybe they wouldn't kill because of what he knows per se, but more because of the scam he was running on them. And he knew it.
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.

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Robin Hood
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Robin Hood »

762X545 wrote: December 7th, 2021, 5:54 pm Maybe they wouldn't kill because of what he knows per se, but more because of the scam he was running on them. And he knew it.
I doubt it, given that those present (according to your narrative) apparently continued the scam.

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Chip
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Chip »

Peeps wrote: December 7th, 2021, 6:31 pm
kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Maybe he was revealing secrets of the Masons. They also have secrets about the preexistence, but it is from Lucifer's perspective.

I don't think the apostles of the New Testament hid anything in their preaching. They told all they knew and even said that there was no private interpretation of the scriptures. The reason people wanted to kill the apostles was because the gospel threatened to upset the political order, as it always does.

What Joseph said about how people would kill him, were he to tell them all he knew, indicates that they would realize something quite revolting. This is a huge twist on the Christianity of the Bible and Book of Mormon, but is very culturally Mormon, as it feeds the notion that we are on the inside track because we have special knowledge, making us exceedingly special.

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Chip
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Chip »

Maybe, though, Joseph was speaking to those men, indicating that he knew their secrets, and if they knew that he knew, they might want to kill him.

JohnnyL
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by JohnnyL »

Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:45 am
762X545 wrote: December 7th, 2021, 5:54 pm Maybe they wouldn't kill because of what he knows per se, but more because of the scam he was running on them. And he knew it.
I doubt it, given that those present (according to your narrative) apparently continued the scam.
That's just part of the fun, getting to run the scam on others AND yourself!

JohnnyL
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by JohnnyL »

Jesus even said this type of thing, right?

And when He did, the Jews howled and tried to kill Him on the spot.

Joseph and Brigham both spoke of members not being able to take new doctrine, etc.

Bronco73idi
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Bronco73idi »

Chip wrote: December 8th, 2021, 8:09 am
Peeps wrote: December 7th, 2021, 6:31 pm
kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Maybe he was revealing secrets of the Masons. They also have secrets about the preexistence, but it is from Lucifer's perspective.

I don't think the apostles of the New Testament hid anything in their preaching. They told all they knew and even said that there was no private interpretation of the scriptures. The reason people wanted to kill the apostles was because the gospel threatened to upset the political order, as it always does.

What Joseph said about how people would kill him, were he to tell them all he knew, indicates that they would realize something quite revolting. This is a huge twist on the Christianity of the Bible and Book of Mormon, but is very culturally Mormon, as it feeds the notion that we are on the inside track because we have special knowledge, making us exceedingly special.
Do you think they knew everything pertaining to this life and the dealings with God and man? Maybe Jospeh knew more, open my mind and dig deeper.

After these statements, Celsus, from a secret desire to cast discredit upon the Mosaic account of the creation, which teaches that the world is not yet ten thousand years old, but very much under that, while concealing his wish, intimates his agreement with those who hold that the world is uncreated. For, maintaining that there have been, from all eternity, many conflagrations and many deluges, and that the flood which lately took place in the time of Deucalion is comparatively modern, he clearly demonstrates to those who are able to understand him, that, in his opinion, the world was uncreated. But let this assailant of the Christian faith tell us by what arguments he was compelled to accept the statement that there have been many conflagrations and many cataclysms, and that the flood which occurred in the time of Deucalion, and the conflagration in that of Phæthon, were more recent than any others. And if he should put forward the dialogues of Plato (as evidence) on these subjects, we shall say to him that it is allowable for us also to believe that there resided in the pure and pious soul of Moses, who ascended above all created things, and united himself to the Creator of the universe, and who made known divine things with far greater clearness than Plato, or those other wise men (who lived) among the Greeks and Romans, a spirit which was divine. And if he demands of us our reasons for such a belief, let him first give grounds for his own unsupported assertions, and then we shall show that this view of ours is the correct one.


We have known since we landed on the moon the truth of many cataclysms. The moon missions were called after the worlds traditional religion, according to Celsus, Apollo, the Greek god of the sun.

IMO, I believe that it’s wisdom in the lord to tell us what he tells us. If he told us everything would we truly have faith/free agency? So he told Jospeh a lot more and Jospeh only told us what we could handle.

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kirtland r.m.
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by kirtland r.m. »

Chip wrote: December 8th, 2021, 8:09 am
Peeps wrote: December 7th, 2021, 6:31 pm
kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Maybe he was revealing secrets of the Masons. They also have secrets about the preexistence, but it is from Lucifer's perspective.

I don't think the apostles of the New Testament hid anything in their preaching. They told all they knew and even said that there was no private interpretation of the scriptures. The reason people wanted to kill the apostles was because the gospel threatened to upset the political order, as it always does.

What Joseph said about how people would kill him, were he to tell them all he knew, indicates that they would realize something quite revolting. This is a huge twist on the Christianity of the Bible and Book of Mormon, but is very culturally Mormon, as it feeds the notion that we are on the inside track because we have special knowledge, making us exceedingly special.
The apostles were apparently taught a number of deeper doctrines during the forty day period after the Lord's resurrection. Show me any other church who understands or is teaching this information. The following is just a sample.

Part of this advanced doctrine was taught to the Apostles in the forty day period after His Resurrection. Luke states that during the 40-day ministry the Savior spoke “of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God,” but there are only vague hints in other New Testament writings as to the nature and content of these teachings. The preaching of Jesus to the spirits in prison (see 1 Pet. 3:19 and 1 Pet. 4:6) and the doctrine of baptism for the dead (see 1 Cor. 15:29) are two examples of teachings that best fit the context of Acts 1:3. Although few, if any, works pertaining to the 40-day ministry of Acts 1:3 were known a century ago, modern discoveries have produced a virtual library of such writings.

Even though often spurious in origin and detail, these apocryphal writings bear a united testimony of missionary activity. They show the existence of some very interesting doctrines, especially meaningful to Latter-day Saints with the perspective of the restoration of the gospel.

Although the apocryphal writings found in the past century derive from many different geographical and theologically diverse sects, there are a number of themes common to virtually all the writings, regardless of origin. The similarity of themes in these texts, despite the wide-ranging theological differences of the sects that used them, argues for their development out of an authentic historical and theological setting. It is all the more remarkable that these similarities occur, considering the lack of many of these themes in the New Testament and other early Christian literature. A very brief examination of a few of the more prominent themes in this literature would include the following:

The most popular Old Testament subject for apocryphal speculation is the creation story as found in Genesis. In addition to entire works dealing specifically with the creation of the world, lengthy segments on the creation are included in such works as the Hypostasis of the Archons and the Apocryphon of John.

The Hypostasis begins with a quotation from Paul’s epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 6:12) that establishes the purpose of the text—to explain that man’s struggles in this life are really against the powers of darkness. There follows a description of the heavenly council, the rebellion in heaven, and the casting out of Satan and his rebellious followers.

The account of the creation of the earth and subsequent events includes a dramatic dialogue between God, Satan, Adam, and Eve. The detailed account of the temptation, the partaking of the forbidden fruit, and the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the garden are followed by the esoteric and embellished account of earth’s history to the time of Noah. Some of the details included in this interesting manuscript most certainly have been added by speculative editors whose imaginations were more advanced than their perception of truth. It is quite likely that when the ordinances associated with the text were lost, the resulting deficiency was compensated in part by such additions.

In the Apocryphon of John a similarly involved account of a heavenly council, a war, and an expulsion of rebellious offspring of God is recounted. This time the telling of the story is placed in the context of the glorified Jesus explaining to John “things which are, which have been, and which will be.” The text again concerns itself with history from the time of Adam until Noah, and also includes detailed descriptions of the eternal destinies of man. These descriptions occur near the end of the text and are in the form of a dialogue: John asks Jesus about those who will be saved, those who have not known in mortality “to whom they belong,” and those “who have come into the knowledge but have turned away.”

In answer to the preceding questions the Savior explains that some will become perfect, purifying themselves from all evil, and will inherit eternal life. Those who do not know in mortality to whom they belong will go to a prison after this life, where they will be able to obtain knowledge and be saved.

At this point John asks how the spirit can return to the mortal body (implying that more than knowledge is necessary for salvation), but the Savior responds that a spirit in prison can be saved by “being connected with another in whom the spirit of Life is,” and will not have to return to a mortal body. Further along in the text, Jesus explains to John that after his death he went to the spirit prison and taught salvation to those who were there. Variations on this popular theme can be found in numerous other apocryphal texts.

Another common element in apocryphal literature is the secrecy enjoined upon those who receive these teachings. The Gospel of Thomas begins: “These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke,” and Thomas the Contender begins with the “secret words that Jesus spoke to Judas-Thomas.” The Apocryphon of John opens with “the secret teachings” and Second Jeu has an entire page devoted to a charge by Jesus to his disciples that they “not give these things for anything of the world.” It is obvious that the people who wrote or copied these documents did not intend for them to become widely read.

References to ritual abound in this large body of material. In addition to baptisms and sacred meals, there are also numerous references to washings, anointings, and special garments. In the Acts of Thomas, those who are baptized also request the “seal” from the Apostle Thomas, which consists of an anointing with oil. In the famous Hymn of the Pearl from the same work, the plan of redemption is portrayed in amazing detail and clarity. The son of God is sent to the world (symbolized by Egypt) with the charge to bring back the pearl (his soul). Although he falls into a spiritual coma by partaking of the food and raiment of the world, his heavenly parents, after holding a great council to plan his redemption, send the message of salvation and its attendant power to their son. The son awakens, exercises his new power over the serpent who rules the world, rescues his pearl, and accomplishes the long, hard journey back to his parents’ home. There, according to the promises given before he made the journey, the son receives a heavenly garment and a beautiful robe that admit him into the company of the great ones of heaven.

Marriage as a requirement for those who would achieve the highest of the three heavens is a teaching found in the Gospel of Philip, and the sanctity of marriage is alluded to in other documents. On some occasions the resurrected Jesus is portrayed as giving sacred teachings to the apostles and their wives, as in Second Jeu. From the variations of the rituals perceived in apocryphal literature, it appears evident that the different sects probably changed the ordinances, perhaps because they no longer understood their significance.

Finally, one of the recurring messages in this body of literature is the gloomy future that is in store for the true believers. In the Epistle of Peter to Philip, when the disciples are walking back to Jerusalem after being instructed by the risen Lord on the Mount of Olives, Peter explains to the others that they will suffer greatly. The voice of the Lord is then heard from heaven and confirms what Peter has said, adding that persecution is necessary for one to become like the Savior. In the Apocryphon of James, Jesus explains to James that by suffering persecution and doing the will of the Father one can be made equal to Christ. James later asks how the apostles are to respond to those asking for prophecy, and Jesus replies that prophecy had been taken from the earth.

Later in the same work Peter expresses concern that the Savior was not very encouraging, to which the Lord responds that the disciples should not be concerned with anything but the promise of eternal life.

In the Apocalypse of Peter, Jesus explains that even Peter would be blasphemed in the future by deceivers who would depart from the truth, leading multitudes after them. These false teachers, continues the Savior, make merchandise of His word, oppress their brothers with the defilement of apostate religion, and even use Peter’s name to lead the souls of men astray. All is not lost, however, for the Savior states that there is a time appointed for the false teachers (who are characterized as “waterless canals”) and the fulfillment of their deception, after which the “agelessness of immortal thought will be renewed.” The deception will be pulled out by its roots and righteousness will prevail at His coming.

In these works the disciples are assured that through the death and resurrection of Jesus they have no need to fear suffering, persecution, or death in this life. What they learned and received in the 40-day ministry would be the means for obtaining salvation and eternal life. This entire post was taken from part of an article published in the Ensign, by By S. Kent Brown and C. Wilfred Griggs

Sources not listed here give evidence of endowment information, and other sacred information given during the above time period to the restored latter day church. I have put up o.p.'s on this in the last few years. Take a look at them or see this for example of ancient knowledge which, and nothing personal chip(his comment from above "a huge twist on the Christianity of the Bible and Book of Mormon", give plenty of evidence to the contrary.]http://ldstempleendowment.blogspot.com/

sevenbak
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by sevenbak »

Chip wrote: December 8th, 2021, 8:09 am
Peeps wrote: December 7th, 2021, 6:31 pm
kirtland r.m. wrote: December 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm Already well acquainted with many who wanted to kill him, including some apostates, Joseph is reported to have said the following.

"if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me"
Joseph Smith

"On May 23, 1843, I listened to a discourse preached in the Nauvoo temple, which was then only partially finished. Brother Joseph was talking on the pre-existence of our spirits, and our relations to God in the spirit world, and our standing in the family circle of our Father. Now I am telling the truth, and I remember that while thus talking he suddenly turned around to the Apostles sitting on the stand and said in effect: 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.' Brother Brigham arose and said, 'Don't tell me anything that I can't bear, for I don't want to apostatize.' Brother Joseph, addressing the Apostles, then said: 'The weight of this kingdom has been as a millstone around my neck, but I am going to roll it off on your shoulders, and then the kingdom of God will go on.' There were eleven of the Apostles present at this time. Among them I saw Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards, Geo. A. Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor. I don't remember the others." (Robert Horne, "Reminiscences of the Church in Nauvoo," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Vol. 55, No. 36, Sept. 4, 1893, p. 585)

Old and new testament era believers are well acquainted with this doctrine. A number of them also sealed their testimonies with their blood.
Maybe he was revealing secrets of the Masons. They also have secrets about the preexistence, but it is from Lucifer's perspective.

I don't think the apostles of the New Testament hid anything in their preaching. They told all they knew and even said that there was no private interpretation of the scriptures. The reason people wanted to kill the apostles was because the gospel threatened to upset the political order, as it always does.

What Joseph said about how people would kill him, were he to tell them all he knew, indicates that they would realize something quite revolting. This is a huge twist on the Christianity of the Bible and Book of Mormon, but is very culturally Mormon, as it feeds the notion that we are on the inside track because we have special knowledge, making us exceedingly special.
Really, you want to go with that? Ok. Paul would highly disagree.

1 Corinthians 3:2
"I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."

tribrac
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by tribrac »

So Joseph must have seen that science is the true god and that by uniting as one world culture, directed by the UN and guided by science mankind would reach zion.

It all makes sense to me now.
Last edited by tribrac on December 15th, 2021, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

MR. T wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:41 am
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.
Image
For your consideration. :lol:

Mamabear
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Mamabear »

BeNotDeceived wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:31 am
MR. T wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:41 am
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.
Image
For your consideration. :lol:
Curious: does Joseph in the gap teach that Joseph was wrong or right?

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Wondering Wendy »

Mamabear wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:37 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:31 am
MR. T wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:41 am
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.
Image
For your consideration. :lol:
Curious: does Joseph in the gap teach that Joseph was wrong or right?
Both. It teaches that Joseph was a true prophet and we had the fulness of the gospel for about 3 1/2 years or so. Then after the fulness was lost, Joseph stood in the gap as intercessor to save the saints. Because of this, he became a fallen prophet, and made many mistakes.

This is a good introduction, also. This is the Iron Rod podcast's presentation at Sunstone, including the author, Taylor Drake.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Mamabear wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:37 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:31 am
MR. T wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:41 am
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.
Image
For your consideration. :lol:
Curious: does Joseph in the gap teach that Joseph was wrong or right?
He was mostly right, but the saints, including Brigham would rather build fine homes and the Masonic Lodge rather than the Nauvoo Temple, and Nauvoo House as commanded. Moses’ experience was similar in his day. The third thing the Lord commanded was to complete translation of the Bible, which he did not accomplish, because he became caught up with worldly pursuits.

search.php?keywords=mGpzaLNVnls will find any time stamps from the video that Wondering Wendy posted. Interesting that JS passed the torch to Hyrum a year before his martyrdom. The video explains that a prophets calling includes testing the saints, and the Nauvoo era saints, on the whole, failed miserably.

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Baurak Ale
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Baurak Ale »

BeNotDeceived wrote: December 16th, 2021, 5:03 am
Mamabear wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:37 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:31 am
MR. T wrote: December 8th, 2021, 7:41 am
You have CLEARLY fulfilled one of Joseph Smiths prophecies with your very comment.
Image
For your consideration. :lol:
Curious: does Joseph in the gap teach that Joseph was wrong or right?
He was mostly right, but the saints, including Brigham would rather build fine homes and the Masonic Lodge rather than the Nauvoo Temple, and Nauvoo House as commanded. Moses’ experience was similar in his day. The third thing the Lord commanded was to complete translation of the Bible, which he did not accomplish, because he became caught up with worldly pursuits.

search.php?keywords=mGpzaLNVnls will find any time stamps from the video that Wondering Wendy posted. Interesting that JS passed the torch to Hyrum a year before his martyrdom. The video explains that a prophets calling includes testing the saints, and the Nauvoo era saints, on the whole, failed miserably.
I don’t care much for the direction this thread is going in, but I wanted to congratulate BeNotDeceived for writing in plain English :lol:

Joseph in the Gap: Another Desperate Attempt to Wish Away Polygamy as an Eternal Principle

While I’m here I guess I will add that Joseph passed the role of prophet, head of the church, to Hyrum so that he himself could ascend to the role of priest, head of the quorum of the anointed, and the role of king, head of the kingdom of God (under Christ). He wasn’t acknowledging himself as a fallen prophet by passing the mantle to Hyrum. Joseph repeatedly defended himself from allegations of being a false prophet.

Moses was in “the gap” as it were for his own sins. The course of every prophet, priest, and king is to establish a Zion and attain heaven by gathering the people under the keys and ordinances. Enoch and Melchizedek succeeded in this; Moses, David, Christ, and Joseph Smith did not. Sometimes that was the fault of the head, and sometimes that was the fault of the body (“how oft I would have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chicks under wings, and ye would not”).

A few hallmarks always attend the fullness of the order of heaven as it is established by these heads whom God calls: physical gathering, the usage and building of temples or tabernacles for the performing of ordinances, angelic dispensing of keys, communal living, a monarchist-aristocratic government , and polygyny.

Hence Jesus or Joseph—or any true prophet, priest, and king—would be killed by the Babylon-loving prudes of their day who make up the rank and file of the church or local community. This is why Joseph could only reveal all to the quorum of the anointed who had been sufficiently prepared for a latter-day throne of David.

That’s my witness: Joseph never fell, but his kingly reign was cut short in righteousness as the testator had to seal his testimony in blood.

If I had to write a book in response to Joseph in the Gap, I’d call it Joseph in the Throne.

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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know ...

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Baurak Ale wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:06 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 16th, 2021, 5:03 am
Mamabear wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:37 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 15th, 2021, 10:31 am

Image
For your consideration. :lol:
Curious: does Joseph in the gap teach that Joseph was wrong or right?
He was mostly right, but the saints, including Brigham would rather build fine homes and the Masonic Lodge rather than the Nauvoo Temple, and Nauvoo House as commanded. Moses’ experience was similar in his day. The third thing the Lord commanded was to complete translation of the Bible, which he did not accomplish, because he became caught up with worldly pursuits.

search.php?keywords=mGpzaLNVnls will find any time stamps from the video that Wondering Wendy posted. Interesting that JS passed the torch to Hyrum a year before his martyrdom. The video explains that a prophets calling includes testing the saints, and the Nauvoo era saints, on the whole, failed miserably.
I don’t care much for the direction this thread is going in, but I wanted to congratulate BeNotDeceived for writing in plain English :lol:

Joseph in the Gap: Another Desperate Attempt to Wish Away Polygamy as an Eternal Principle

While I’m here I guess I will add that Joseph passed the role of prophet, head of the church, to Hyrum so that he himself could ascend to the role of priest, head of the quorum of the anointed, and the role of king, head of the kingdom of God (under Christ). He wasn’t acknowledging himself as a fallen prophet by passing the mantle to Hyrum. Joseph repeatedly defended himself from allegations of being a false prophet.

Moses was in “the gap” as it were for his own sins. The course of every prophet, priest, and king is to establish a Zion and attain heaven by gathering the people under the keys and ordinances. Enoch and Melchizedek succeeded in this; Moses, David, Christ, and Joseph Smith did not. Sometimes that was the fault of the head, and sometimes that was the fault of the body (“how oft I would have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chicks under wings, and ye would not”).

A few hallmarks always attend the fullness of the order of heaven as it is established by these heads whom God calls: physical gathering, the usage and building of temples or tabernacles for the performing of ordinances, angelic dispensing of keys, communal living, a monarchist-aristocratic government , and polygyny.

Hence Jesus or Joseph—or any true prophet, priest, and king—would be killed by the Babylon-loving prudes of their day who make up the rank and file of the church or local community. This is why Joseph could only reveal all to the quorum of the anointed who had been sufficiently prepared for a latter-day throne of David.

That’s my witness: Joseph never fell, but his kingly reign was cut short in righteousness as the testator had to seal his testimony in blood.

If I had to write a book in response to Joseph in the Gap, I’d call it Joseph in the Throne.
That explains some aspects, but doesn’t address Joseph’s failure to complete his Bible translation and forays beyond the scope of his commission.

Plain English doesn’t elude me, but rather forms the basis of deeper communications that are available to all, if they will but delve into abc123 letter-number conversions. The simplest gematria, so simple in fact that scholars fail to even recognize it.

A B C 1 2 3 is a familiar chant I remember hearing as a child, probably while watching Sesame Street with my little nephew, who was only eight years younger than me.

Later when I was seventeen the pattern became deeply embedded in me brain when I met a girl whose name began with CH on March 8th. 8 years later I began meeting girls with CH in their name, always on March 8th, and often in the most peculiar ways. This stopped when I met my golden girl who resided at 1919 East Holladay type street, while my residence was 127 1st Ave #13 in SLC at the Brigham Apartments.

Then in 20O2 we went to OKC with me nameless friend for 9 weeks of 9 school that began on January 9th. Just prior to us leaving I snapped a picture at the memorial with me friends camera, that I was considering the purchase of, for our geocaching activities. Thereon said picture an angel type image appeared, and the timing pattern viewable via search.php?keywords=38ii came with an obvious conclusion of J = 10. Then a member identified below posted the significance of 2010, based on an advanced understanding of the Bible.

2010 came and went, so I posted the pages of me little book in the private forum, believing that it was all some sort of deception. But then on March 18th, 2020 a 5.7 magnitude earthquake rocked SLC thereby landing Moroni’s instrument. Again an amazing timing pattern was observed that may be summed up as Silent H was skipped, and Moroni ate it. Said latest pattern conformed to the one rule of GBNG and GBNG also points to further schooling that I later received in OKC.

57 may be said to be emblematic of someone that posted Who Were You Expecting? in the Introductions sub-forum. Recently I noticed 19+19 equals 38 and 19 is the common prime factor of 38 and 57. The GAPii book image is 380x570 as in some ways it represents the polar opposite of 38/57. Both timing patterns ensure against deception via the name of our redeemer that is central to each. Anyways this post will become the latest in my unusual saga, and is made in hopes of providing a summary that may entice sincere seekers of the truth to further understand what is taking place.

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Chip
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know...you would rise up and kill me", reported Joseph Smith quote.

Post by Chip »

Baurak Ale wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:06 am I don’t care much for the direction this thread is going in, but I wanted to congratulate BeNotDeceived for writing in plain English :lol:

Indeedy due, I've noticed it, too. BeNotDeceived's making sense anew.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: "if I were to tell you all I know ...

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Chip wrote: December 16th, 2021, 4:42 pm
Baurak Ale wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:06 am I don’t care much for the direction this thread is going in, but I wanted to congratulate BeNotDeceived for writing in plain English :lol:

Indeedy due, I've noticed it, too. BeNotDeceived's making sense anew.
It don't get no more simpler than ABC is as simple as 123.

B4MJ morphed into plastic surgery man. :lol:

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