Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 18th, 2021, 10:36 pm Will there be sodomy in heaven?
Is heaven really heaven for those who practice sodomy? Or will hell better suit their lusts :oops:

HVDC
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by HVDC »

Church magazines have been woke for years.

Once in a while something worthwhile.

But mostly stupid mind numbing feelgoodisms disguised as doctrine.

I started throwing them in the trash 20 years ago. (The grand parents gave subscriptions to the kids)

The family eventually forgot about them.

Don't miss them.

As for Gays, I understand the points presented, but I think we should focus on whether or not we are gonna be there.

I will let God take care of everyone else.

I have enough problems.

Sir H

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Robin Hood
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Robin Hood »

Any homosexual who repents and forsakes their sin and their desire to sin, and brings forth fruit meet for repentance, can qualify for celestial glory.
Just the same as the rest of us.

I don't believe there will be many homo's who will do this.

TruthSeeker77
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by TruthSeeker77 »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:13 pm
TruthSeeker77 wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:10 pm If they kept His commandments and endured to the end, I believe they will be healed from it.
Healed from what? Everyone in the church now says their identity IS PERFECTLY FINE.

And do Porn Addicts get a magic healing too? And Pedo addicts, and violence-prone people? Why do only gays get the heal cheat code?

What you say does not make any sense.
The question was specific to gays so I answered it that way.

Calm the f down.

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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by TruthSeeker77 »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:32 pm And by the way, I do not believe for one second that gays will be magically "healed". What hogwash. Their behavior, thoughts, and desires will carry with them, just like any other behavior, thoughts, and desires. This is doctrinal.

And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.
2 Nephi 9:16

"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come."

D&C 130: 18-19

EVERYONE is going to be treated & judged the same. If you believe you are gay, you will be gay there. If you have an addiction or vice for anything, you will have it there as well. You must repent and remove these things in THIS LIFE in order to be healed from them in the next.


"You must repent and remove these things in THIS LIFE in order to be healed from them in the next."

This is exactly what I said. So now who doesn't make ANY sense?

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

There will be people in Heaven who were once gay, yes. Along with former thieves (according to some of Christ's last words before dying), recovering addicts and who knows what else... I think we'll be very surprised who is there and who isn't (or in the other place, if we go there!) That's what repentance is for. Yes, there are permanent life consequences for some of these things - if someone was dying of AIDS for example, that can be a long period which gives them a chance to repent which someone run over by a bus or whatever doesn't get. If someone has gender reassignment surgery, that is irreversible, but they are not necessarily destined for damnation.

The good Samaritan and Christ condemning the Pharisees are two aspects of this.

As I've said before, in my ward we have a member who has known me at least ten years (maybe twelve?), always ignores me etc, but is now on stake leadership (I forget his calling). He wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire, as the saying goes. But he has been sealed in the temple, sent kids on missions etc.

Another member here, is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, runs AA in the local prison etc, and has done a little time inside himself, and has told me of some of the things he's done, which amaze me. He is divorced and none of his children are active in the church.

Guess who I would turn to first for help? Not Peter Priesthood, the first guy. Moreover, I know people outside the church who have run into the second man, and always tell me how kind he has been to them. He has helped umpteen alcoholics and addicts turn to Christ or at least overcome their addictions, and taken them out of extreme circumstances.

Now, I'd like to give the first man the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he'll go to Hell at all. However, the second man has been in hellish circumstances and could have gone there earlier in his life. I think he has done more good.

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:12 pm My dad (a former bishop AND Stake President Counselor) told me a few years ago that his theory is that the Highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is for Temple Married men and women, the second degree was for worthy gay men, and the third degree was for worthy gay women. He was 100% serious.

I mean...what do you say to this? MY OWN FREAKING FATHER. So, what is it dad? Are lesbians somehow not quite as righteous as gay men, why do they get a lower kingdom? What the Fuuuu???
I suppose the - very LDS - thinking here is that the men could become priests, but the women couldn't.

I don't entirely agree with the idea that people sealed on Earth automatically jump the queue. There are some people who can't get married on Earth for various reasons - physical disfigurement, crippling shyness etc, who are good Christians, while others who do get married are not good Christians in non-sexual matters.

Look at the current leadership pushing these injections, even with mounting evidence of issues. Are they somehow better than the faithful singleton who tries to follow Christ in their heart?

As I've said here before, there is some hypocrisy over homosexuality in the church. For example, I used to home teach a couple who complained about gays. It transpired their own daughter was living with a man. How is heterosexual activity outside wedlock much better than homosexuality? They're both sins, especially if they end up being short term liasons.
Last edited by Niemand on November 19th, 2021, 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by BeNotDeceived »


There’s bound to be many who were born during and/or lived through the Gay 90’s. 8-)

So absolutely, before homosexuals ripped off the dictionary, such that bad sinful behavior is now erroneously called good, and those practicing it are members of Joe’s cabinet that are encouraged to adopt children and parade their debauchery before us.

Erroneously good, but not dragon dung. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: dbnp x2

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mcusick
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by mcusick »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:12 pm My dad (a former bishop AND Stake President Counselor) told me a few years ago that his theory is that the Highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is for Temple Married men and women, the second degree was for worthy gay men, and the third degree was for worthy gay women. He was 100% serious.

I mean...what do you say to this? MY OWN FREAKING FATHER. So, what is it dad? Are lesbians somehow not quite as righteous as gay men, why do they get a lower kingdom? What the Fuuuu???
It's because the priesthood, silly.

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

Lizzy60 wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:30 pm They also believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were NOT destroyed because of homosexuality, but for selfish attitudes toward strangers. They believe that later translators made homosexuality to blame, and it didn’t come from God. Because God made queers, so God loves queers just the way they are — perfect.

Of course, I think they are bat-sH!t crazy.
Selfish attitudes to strangers? They wanted to rape the angels. Rape is an additional sin. That aspect is rarely picked up on, especially by gay apologists.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Subcomandante »

When you define people by their sins, instead of their weaknesses, heaven will be a fairly empty place. In fact, quite empty.

When you define the weaknesses and then strive to remove them, with Godly help, heaven will be quite populated.

A person can suffer SSA and yet strive to live their covenants. And there are many that do.

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JK4Woods
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by JK4Woods »

nightlight wrote: November 18th, 2021, 9:30 pm
JK4Woods wrote: November 18th, 2021, 7:41 pm
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:06 pm Everywhere I look now in this church I see the same messaging, "tolerance", "love", "inclusion", "acceptance", "fairness", "equality". We're supposed to accept everyone no matter what. No sin is too big, no behavior too kink, no self-delusion too insane. EVERYONE MUST BE ACCEPTED. It's so Communist, Karl Marx would blush if he saw it.

So I'm wondering how heck these people square this doctrine with the concept that, NOT EVERYONE WILL BE INCLUDED IN HEAVEN. Seriously. Do they think that we're all going to be singing kumbaya together in our heavenly mansions with transgender, gay, lesbian, attack helicopter, kinfolk, fish-people, pony-sexuals, and every other self-identifying thing imaginable?

Or do these members believe that these people will be magically "fixed" when they die? So let me get this straight. If I die a porn addict, or a sex addict, or a pedo, or a murderer I carry these addictions and vices with me into the next life, but somehow the politically correct behaviors get a magic wand waved over theirs? How is that just?

And what is with this new doctrine that says that somehow the God that burnt down Sodom & Gomorrah isn't the exact same God as Jesus Christ? They say to be "Christ-Like", well Christ did a lot of things including burning 3/4 of the Nephites and sinking the rest into the sea. That Christ? Or just the one from the feel-good LDS videos?

Seriously. Think through this bullcrap for a minute. Why do we think we're supposed to live accepting of everyone on earth, but at the same time believe Heaven is discriminating? Are we not supposed to be living in God's Kingdom Right Here and Right Now? Are we preparing to live in God's kingdom of borders and walls and exclusion or are we preparing to live in the wide open area of hell where everyone is accepted? I don't get it. I really, REALLY don't get it.

I simply do not know how in the world all these people we call Latter Day Saints are supposed to square this after they die. Either around 90% of the membership is going straight to hell with this doctrine, or God is a complete pushover and Heaven & Hell is a lie. Pick one.


Umm... the answer is yes. Because the worldly view of “Heaven” means anything that isn’t hell.

And the Telestial Kingdom, is not Hell, and will be populated by all sorts of resurrected beings who lived this life sideways to the commandments of God.

So , yes, Gay people will be in heaven.

Honest, Just, Honorable people will make it to the Terrestial Kingdom.

God fearing people who actually accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, And repented of their sins, and who endeavored to get back on the straight and narrow path even after they’ve wandered off it, will , thru the mercy and atonement, will be allowed into the Celestial Kingdom.

Those who have really tried to purify and sanctify themselves, and received the various temple ordinances, may even get to the third tier inside the Celestial Kingdom.

So, for those who get to travel between the kingdoms, they will see a bunch of tattooed former creeps, who are living a pretty good life in the hereafter where Satan’s influence is no longer felt.

We are legitimately the only church that has some inkling of how Heaven is set up, and we can set ourselves apart by sayin Gays are going to heaven ...
You think people will be resurrected with tattoos?

Not really. We’re supposed to be resurrected in clean perfect form. So no tattoos.

Unless, they choose to redo them once relegated to their ultimate destination...

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 8:43 pm Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matt 5:27-28

Jesus is calling out those who say, "it's only a sin if you act on it.". Wrong.
Everybody is tempted though. I think many men have done this. More so than in physical terms. I found myself infatuated with a married woman once. I didn't know she was to begin with, and I realised her husband was a good man. Nothing could come of it, except unhappiness for at least one of us. So I avoided her, and eventually she moved out of the ward. The trouble is that I know that this scenario could happen again - for some reason a lot of attractive, likable women happen to be married. I wonder why?

I forget who said it, but someone once said that we would be horrified if we knew all the things that other people think. We're lucky most of us don't act on it, because that's where additional trouble comes from. The trick is to resist it and repent of it when it emerges.

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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by TrueFaith »

Niemand wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:36 am
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 8:43 pm Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matt 5:27-28

Jesus is calling out those who say, "it's only a sin if you act on it.". Wrong.
Everybody is tempted though. I think many men have done this. More so than in physical terms. I found myself infatuated with a married woman once. I didn't know she was to begin with, and I realised her husband was a good man. Nothing could come of it, except unhappiness for at least one of us. So I avoided her, and eventually she moved out of the ward. The trouble is that I know that this scenario could happen again - for some reason a lot of attractive, likable women happen to be married. I wonder why?

I forget who said it, but someone once said that we would be horrified if we knew all the things that other people think. We're lucky most of us don't act on it, because that's where additional trouble comes from. The trick is to resist it and repent of it when it emerges.
All of us are fallen in some way. That's why we are commanded to repent often and do all we can to abhor sinful thoughts so those thoughts don't end up becoming words and actions.

If we are doing the above, we can be made clean in Christ and qualify to return to live with God in Heaven.

However, there seems to be a majority of people in the church who now believe dirty LGBT thoughts are in fact justified and righteous. They believe that God's love is unconditional and all-inclusive no matter what you identify as. This is a lie.

The truth is that God's love is conditional, intolerant, and exclusive. God isn't this way only after the final judgment. God is this way right now, because God doesn't change. God's love and God's blessing are inseparable, otherwise it would be a mockery.

Think about this common LDS phrase:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin"

When we imprison rapists and murderers, do we only lock up their behaviors? No. The sinner goes right along with their sin. You cannot separate the two. A bad sinner is also a bad person. So why do we think that God distinguishes? He doesn't.

A person's behavior is a part of who they are.

You either love both the sinner AND the sin, or you hate both the sinner AND the sin. To believe otherwise is a lie. This is why LDS are in this predicament today. "Love the sinner, hate that sin" is a Satanic deception. If you love the sinner, you will also inevitably begin to love the sin as well.

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nightlight
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by nightlight »

JK4Woods wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:34 am
nightlight wrote: November 18th, 2021, 9:30 pm
JK4Woods wrote: November 18th, 2021, 7:41 pm
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:06 pm Everywhere I look now in this church I see the same messaging, "tolerance", "love", "inclusion", "acceptance", "fairness", "equality". We're supposed to accept everyone no matter what. No sin is too big, no behavior too kink, no self-delusion too insane. EVERYONE MUST BE ACCEPTED. It's so Communist, Karl Marx would blush if he saw it.

So I'm wondering how heck these people square this doctrine with the concept that, NOT EVERYONE WILL BE INCLUDED IN HEAVEN. Seriously. Do they think that we're all going to be singing kumbaya together in our heavenly mansions with transgender, gay, lesbian, attack helicopter, kinfolk, fish-people, pony-sexuals, and every other self-identifying thing imaginable?

Or do these members believe that these people will be magically "fixed" when they die? So let me get this straight. If I die a porn addict, or a sex addict, or a pedo, or a murderer I carry these addictions and vices with me into the next life, but somehow the politically correct behaviors get a magic wand waved over theirs? How is that just?

And what is with this new doctrine that says that somehow the God that burnt down Sodom & Gomorrah isn't the exact same God as Jesus Christ? They say to be "Christ-Like", well Christ did a lot of things including burning 3/4 of the Nephites and sinking the rest into the sea. That Christ? Or just the one from the feel-good LDS videos?

Seriously. Think through this bullcrap for a minute. Why do we think we're supposed to live accepting of everyone on earth, but at the same time believe Heaven is discriminating? Are we not supposed to be living in God's Kingdom Right Here and Right Now? Are we preparing to live in God's kingdom of borders and walls and exclusion or are we preparing to live in the wide open area of hell where everyone is accepted? I don't get it. I really, REALLY don't get it.

I simply do not know how in the world all these people we call Latter Day Saints are supposed to square this after they die. Either around 90% of the membership is going straight to hell with this doctrine, or God is a complete pushover and Heaven & Hell is a lie. Pick one.


Umm... the answer is yes. Because the worldly view of “Heaven” means anything that isn’t hell.

And the Telestial Kingdom, is not Hell, and will be populated by all sorts of resurrected beings who lived this life sideways to the commandments of God.

So , yes, Gay people will be in heaven.

Honest, Just, Honorable people will make it to the Terrestial Kingdom.

God fearing people who actually accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, And repented of their sins, and who endeavored to get back on the straight and narrow path even after they’ve wandered off it, will , thru the mercy and atonement, will be allowed into the Celestial Kingdom.

Those who have really tried to purify and sanctify themselves, and received the various temple ordinances, may even get to the third tier inside the Celestial Kingdom.

So, for those who get to travel between the kingdoms, they will see a bunch of tattooed former creeps, who are living a pretty good life in the hereafter where Satan’s influence is no longer felt.

We are legitimately the only church that has some inkling of how Heaven is set up, and we can set ourselves apart by sayin Gays are going to heaven ...
You think people will be resurrected with tattoos?

Not really. We’re supposed to be resurrected in clean perfect form. So no tattoos.

Unless, they choose to redo them once relegated to their ultimate destination...
You(LDS) seem have a nonscriptural idea of the future.

Do you understand that all who die in their sins go to hell until the end of the millennium?

Do you understand that at the end of the millennium there is a second resurrection (resurrection of the wicked), and those who are still filthy or cast out with the sons of perdition?
So anybody who was cleansed by this hell are now clean? Do you understand the implications of this?

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

TrueFaith wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:55 am All of us are fallen in some way. That's why we are commanded to repent often and do all we can to abhor sinful thoughts so those thoughts don't end up becoming words and actions.

If we are doing the above, we can be made clean in Christ and qualify to return to live with God in Heaven.

However, there seems to be a majority of people in the church who now believe dirty LGBT thoughts are in fact justified and righteous. They believe that God's love is unconditional and all-inclusive no matter what you identify as. This is a lie.

The truth is that God's love is conditional, intolerant, and exclusive. God isn't this way only after the final judgment. God is this way right now, because God doesn't change. God's love and God's blessing are inseparable, otherwise it would be a mockery.

Think about this common LDS phrase:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin"

When we imprison rapists and murderers, do we only lock up their behaviors? No. The sinner goes right along with their sin. You cannot separate the two. A bad sinner is also a bad person. So why do we think that God distinguishes? He doesn't.

A person's behavior is a part of who they are.

You either love both the sinner AND the sin, or you hate both the sinner AND the sin. To believe otherwise is a lie. This is why LDS are in this predicament today. "Love the sinner, hate that sin" is a Satanic deception.
Yes, this is it in a nutshell. But I believe Heaven, or even the CK, depending on your terminology is going to have a lot of surprising people in it. If someone gets cancer, or AIDS, or another thing that will take time to kill them, they have a better chance in some ways than someone who gets flattened by a bus or train without warning. When my mother was dying, I had the chance to set some things straight with her and clear the air. When one stares death in the face, then you're likely to think about the afterlife. I just read recently that Billy Connolly who spent some of his life mocking Christianity etc is thinking about the afterlife now, due to his age and Parkinsons etc. Will he get to Heaven? Who knows...

I think the problem with LGBT, apart from the colossal amount of attention it gets right now, is that it is just one of a number of things. Yes, it is getting into the schools, but I would argue schools have been promoting some ugly behaviour for decades. There was certainly a culture of theft, lying, bullying and porn at mine. It was not considered acceptable to be gay by a lot of people there, but it was okay for a group of boys to injure another without provocation (at least among the kids - it would get you suspended). I know of people who got permanent injuries that way. Being gay would get you ostracised, but kicking the head in of someone a lot smaller than you was okay. So if someone is not gay but doing a whole host of other things that is no good either.

Refraction75
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Refraction75 »

It is funny how the LDS church now treats the gay sexual sin the same level of disipline as hetrosexual sin.

Lds current view on homosexuality:

Heres an Example:

16 year old boy fornicates with a 16 year old girl. Is this a sin?

16 year old boy sodomy with another16 year old boy. Is this a sin?

Currently the LDS church would have you believe these two examples are equal in nature of sin severity.


They are not equal or the same...I will illustrate.my point by lessening the sin a bit.

Heres an Example:

If a 16 year old boy kisses a 16 year old girl. Is this a sin?

If a 16 year old boy kisses another 16 year old boy. Is this a sin?

By lessening the sin I believe you can see that one is not equal to the other.
Last edited by Refraction75 on November 19th, 2021, 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:15 am
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:12 pm My dad (a former bishop AND Stake President Counselor) told me a few years ago that his theory is that the Highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is for Temple Married men and women, the second degree was for worthy gay men, and the third degree was for worthy gay women. He was 100% serious.

I mean...what do you say to this? MY OWN FREAKING FATHER. So, what is it dad? Are lesbians somehow not quite as righteous as gay men, why do they get a lower kingdom? What the Fuuuu???
I suppose the - very LDS - thinking here is that the men could become priests, but the women couldn't.

I don't entirely agree with the idea that people sealed on Earth automatically jump the queue. There are some people who can't get married on Earth for various reasons - physical disfigurement, crippling shyness etc, who are good Christians, while others who do get married are not good Christians in non-sexual matters.

Look at the current leadership pushing these injections, even with mounting evidence of issues. Are they somehow better than the faithful singleton who tries to follow Christ in their heart?

As I've said here before, there is some hypocrisy over homosexuality in the church. For example, I used to home teach a couple who complained about gays. It transpired their own daughter was living with a man. How is heterosexual activity outside wedlock much better than homosexuality? They're both sins, especially if they end up being short term liasons.
I believe cohabiting heterosexuals are less bad than cohabiting homosexuals.
It's the "vile affection" and "reprobate" thing.

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Niemand
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: November 19th, 2021, 8:06 am
Niemand wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:15 am
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:12 pm My dad (a former bishop AND Stake President Counselor) told me a few years ago that his theory is that the Highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is for Temple Married men and women, the second degree was for worthy gay men, and the third degree was for worthy gay women. He was 100% serious.

I mean...what do you say to this? MY OWN FREAKING FATHER. So, what is it dad? Are lesbians somehow not quite as righteous as gay men, why do they get a lower kingdom? What the Fuuuu???
I suppose the - very LDS - thinking here is that the men could become priests, but the women couldn't.

I don't entirely agree with the idea that people sealed on Earth automatically jump the queue. There are some people who can't get married on Earth for various reasons - physical disfigurement, crippling shyness etc, who are good Christians, while others who do get married are not good Christians in non-sexual matters.

Look at the current leadership pushing these injections, even with mounting evidence of issues. Are they somehow better than the faithful singleton who tries to follow Christ in their heart?

As I've said here before, there is some hypocrisy over homosexuality in the church. For example, I used to home teach a couple who complained about gays. It transpired their own daughter was living with a man. How is heterosexual activity outside wedlock much better than homosexuality? They're both sins, especially if they end up being short term liasons.
I believe cohabiting heterosexuals are less bad than cohabiting homosexuals.
It's the "vile affection" and "reprobate" thing.
It was definitely a case of what Peterson calls "clean your room". I can think of another example of this phenomenon. There was a woman making a big fuss about paedophiles over in Stirling a few years ago... no one likes paedos, but it transpired her family were some of the biggest drug dealers in the district, and they sold them to schoolchildren as well. So a lot of the local violence, burglaries and overdoses etc were being caused by the anti-paedo ringleaders.

I've long thought our biggest sin in the LDS is pride. Not gay pride, but arrogance and smugness. I think we have a tendency to cast stones but not look at the issues around us.

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SPIRIT
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by SPIRIT »

Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

right.
give me a break.

JohnnyL
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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by JohnnyL »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:12 pm My dad (a former bishop AND Stake President Counselor) told me a few years ago that his theory is that the Highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is for Temple Married men and women, the second degree was for worthy gay men, and the third degree was for worthy gay women. He was 100% serious.

I mean...what do you say to this? MY OWN FREAKING FATHER. So, what is it dad? Are lesbians somehow not quite as righteous as gay men, why do they get a lower kingdom? What the Fuuuu???
Yeah, I don't agree.

But, he might have based that on research (at least in the past) showing that homosexuality is much less a changeable thing/ "choice" than lesbianism.

Much like it's harder to change a guy's romantic view of a woman than vice-versa.

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Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by JohnnyL »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:13 pm
TruthSeeker77 wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:10 pm If they kept His commandments and endured to the end, I believe they will be healed from it.
Healed from what? Everyone in the church now says their identity IS PERFECTLY FINE.

And do Porn Addicts get a magic healing too? And Pedo addicts, and violence-prone people? Why do only gays get the heal cheat code?

What you say does not make any sense.
Obviously they aren't "perfectly fine", lol.

"Magic healing?" Nah, it's called the Atonement. Those who have tried their best, yes, they WE will all be healed, completely.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9932

Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by JohnnyL »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:24 pm
markharr wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:20 pm I think truthseeker nailed it.

Here is the thing though. We are supposed to convert people to the gospel. You are never going to convert someone that has been cast out.

That was part of the point that Christ was making with with the cast the first stone incident.
You both missed my point completely. The title of this thread is tongue in cheek. Of course I know they won't be in Heaven.

I'm saying that most LDS members no longer believe that homosexual identity or transgender identity is incorrect at all. My point is that these people are teaching, preaching, and living a doctrine alien to God's Kingdom. How are they going to reconcile this garbage in the next life?

This church's teachings are now completely antithetical to reality.
The way you wrote it, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone missed your point...

How do you equate "Most LDS members" (how do you know "most"?) to "This church's teaching"?

TrueFaith
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2383

Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by TrueFaith »

JohnnyL wrote: November 19th, 2021, 9:57 am
TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:13 pm
TruthSeeker77 wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:10 pm If they kept His commandments and endured to the end, I believe they will be healed from it.
Healed from what? Everyone in the church now says their identity IS PERFECTLY FINE.

And do Porn Addicts get a magic healing too? And Pedo addicts, and violence-prone people? Why do only gays get the heal cheat code?

What you say does not make any sense.
Obviously they aren't "perfectly fine", lol.

"Magic healing?" Nah, it's called the Atonement. Those who have tried their best, yes, they WE will all be healed, completely.
Only if you believe homosexuality is something we are born with, and not something we can overcome on our own. There is no evidence of a gay gene. It is a chosen identity and a chosen behavior. You won't be "healed" of something you chose.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9932

Re: Will there be Gay people in Heaven?

Post by JohnnyL »

TrueFaith wrote: November 18th, 2021, 6:32 pm And by the way, I do not believe for one second that gays will be magically "healed". What hogwash. Their behavior, thoughts, and desires will carry with them, just like any other behavior, thoughts, and desires. This is doctrinal.

And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.
2 Nephi 9:16

"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come."

D&C 130: 18-19

EVERYONE is going to be treated & judged the same. If you believe you are gay, you will be gay there. If you have an addiction or vice for anything, you will have it there as well. You must repent and remove these things in THIS LIFE in order to be healed from them in the next.
In the spirit world, yes. In heaven, no, due to our obedience and the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

There are many things in this life we will never be free from, no matter how hard we try.

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