Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

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XEmilyX
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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by XEmilyX »

4Joshua8 wrote: November 3rd, 2021, 12:09 pm
XEmilyX wrote: November 3rd, 2021, 12:04 pm
SPIRIT wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 10:16 am
XEmilyX wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 7:22 am So with the davidic servant does he go through some sort of boot camp training for miracles? Curious
yes.
Can't find everything right now - and all the scriptures from Isaiah,
but here is something for now.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62500&p=1197697&hi ... s#p1197697

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52486&p=1000611&hil ... s#p1000611

Gileadi
"Sadly, as entire messianic constructs built up in people’s minds on faulty interpretive foundations inherited from the Dark Ages of apostasy mislead the masses even to this day, it seems apparent that God’s end-time servant and those servants of God who act of proxy saviors under the terms of the Davidic Covenant in restoring his end-time people and preparing them to meet Jehovah/Jesus at his coming must experience their descent phases of trials and afflictions at the hands of those very same misled masses who refuse to invest their time in analyzing Isaiah’s and other messianic prophecies to determine for themselves what they actually say, but who instead are content to parrot back what they are led to believe they say.
Such is the paradox of God’s people’s interpersonal relationships: that those who are most “vigilant for his word” (Isaiah 66:5)—as evidenced by their searching the scriptures to see “whether those things are so” (Acts 17:11)—should suffer most at the hands of ecclesiastical brethren who, to their own condemnation, hold fast to popular but scripturally unsupported “precepts of men” (Isaiah 29:13; 51:7; 61:7; 65:13–15; 66:5)."
Have you ever thought of writing a book or compiling what your posts are for the davidic servant? It's like the best stuff.
A lot of that is from Avraham Gileadi.
You can see a lot of his stuff here: https://smile.amazon.com/Avraham-Gilead ... p_ebooks_1 and his Isaiah translation with his commentary here: https://www.isaiahexplained.com/1#commentary
Oh really? Bahaha sorry about that. But it was good stuff.

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BeNotDeceived
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Davidic Servant 572957 Purple King

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Image

This post is short for a particular purpose.

Check out dimensions with original aspect ratio. 8-)

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BeNotDeceived
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End Times Servant

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Alaris wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 2:00 pm Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

Is pride yours? Can you see the enemy just spilling as Satans? Those place themselves on the left / pride. Those on the right who feel poor, place your themselves with us.

Fools

------

Oh, I forgot. Less I forget, the reason that the King is the same the highest color, purple is bottom. King is the least and purple is last (well, white given) given. Here....

double-rainbow-intense.jpg

Do you see it! Try it, let Jesus Christ.... People are looking for His children, but thats not right. They're shouldn't looking for James (Jacob) the least of Mary's children. From Adam and Eve... Its wasn't first - he was Cain. Its wasn't Abel. It was Seth. Abraham was not firstborn. He was second. And so on...let the most be purple. David was 7 and 8 depending on the scriptures. Solomon was last. Rehobom was last. And so on.

Mary - Read the first and second of Apocalypse and James. He reads like the true Holy of Ghost. Wake up.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com ... w.html?m=1
Interesting your picture and identification with colors. Once upon a time, I posted that a certain story passed with flying colors, then discovered 57.2957 is a truncation of a peculiar transcendental number.

Converted to a color, it looks like this.

Also the aspect ratio is 38/57, if you remember searching 38ii :?:

search.php?keywords=572957 will show said image, and that was the particular purple purpose of the particular post posted above. :lol:

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Alaris
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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

???

I see 38 days, for which I was asleep.

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BeNotDeceived
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Davidic Servant

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 1:39 pm ???

I see 38 days, for which I was asleep.
John 11:38-57

When I created your rainbow image, just for fun I set it to 380 pixels high, and was surprised to see 570 pixels for the width. On a whim I searched youtube for 38 57, and again the video it found was like totally surprising. 1919 is an address that I associate with and noticed before that 19 + 19 == 38. You were similarly awakened after 38 days. 8-)

Whimsy Whale, but not Wallowing Walrus. 🐳 gbng

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Alaris
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Re: Davidic Servant

Post by Alaris »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 12th, 2021, 2:05 pm
Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 1:39 pm ???

I see 38 days, for which I was asleep.
John 11:38-57

When I created your rainbow image, just for fun I set it to 380 pixels high, and was surprised to see 570 pixels for the width. On a whim I searched youtube for 38 57, and again the video it found was like totally surprising. 1919 is an address that I associate with and noticed before that 19 + 19 == 38. You were similarly awakened after 38 days. 8-)

Whimsy Whale, but not Wallowing Walrus. 🐳 gbng
I think I got it all.... Maybe. Thanks brother. 😇

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by EvanLM »

can you give me the page or reference for Avraham Gileadi saying that Adam wasn't first born?

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

posted this in another thread, but i reckon it more properly belongs here. concerns how the Davidic Herald is the one who delivered the "deadly wound" on one of the heads of the 1st Beast in Revelation 13; as well as what the rise of the Antichrist has to do with the story of when Baalam and his talking donkey cross paths with the Angel of JHWH (the Davidic Servant..):

The chimeric mixing of man + beast is typical of demonic mingling with mankind (as in, "mark of the beast"), but we also see it with the cherubim/seraphim, man + beast + bird (union of land-creatures + sky-creatures, aka heavenly realm + earth realm). There are many scriptures where the OMAS is likened to an animal, usually birds, who belong to the sky/heavenly realm.

I think the DS is the one who wounds/wounded the head of the Rahab-beast from the sea in Rev 13:

Revelation 13
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads...
One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.
Image

A beast that comes out of the sea with a mortal wound..? 🤔 Sounds familiar..

Isaiah 51
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who wounded the dragon?

Its literally the exact same thing.

Rev13 - Leviathan from the sea, with a mortal wound.

Isa51 - the dragon Rahab from the sea whom the DS mortally wounds.
Image

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewto ... 14&t=62700

I suspect Leviathan's wound getting healed has something to do with why/how the DS gets "marred". People will blame him for seeming to make things worse before they get better. He will be made to seem guilty.

Genesis 3
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

1 Samuel 17
And David put his hand in his bag and took out a stone and slung it and struck the Philistine on his forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woo8Hr ... .be&t=3077

A somewhat related idea I had the other day where the OMAS is concerned:

2 Thessa 2
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (Greek: "son of Apollo", aka Abaddon)
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
And you know who is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way...

Till he's "out of the way"... 🤔

Numbers 22
So Balaam rose in the morning and saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab.
But God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as his adversary. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him.
And the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with a drawn sword in his hand. And the donkey turned aside out of the road and went into the field. And Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, with a wall on either side.
And when the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pushed against the wall and pressed Balaam’s foot against the wall. So he struck her again.
Then the angel of the LORD went ahead and stood in a narrow way, where there was no way to turn either to the right or to the left.
When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam. And Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”
And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.”
And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand. And he bowed down and fell on his face.

Book of Revelation shows how Balaam (the anti-Moses) = the "False Prophet".

Who is the one who "stands in the way" of the mystery of lawlessness and the rise of the Antichrist? The Angel of JHWH.

The Antichrist cannot rise until the DS gets "out of the way", all the nations marvelling at how the beast's deadly head-wound is healed.
Image
Last edited by abijah` on November 12th, 2021, 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Alaris
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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels (archangels) which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came (and another angel came = eight) and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.


The 8th prayers to God out of his angels hands. The Holy Ghost.

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 6:26 pm Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels (archangels) which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came (and another angel came = eight) and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.


The 8th prayers to God out of his angels hands. The Holy Ghost.
🤔 I'm curious as to how this might square with Isaiah's presentation the Seven Spirits in Ch. 11?
  • Isa`11
    And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Angel #1 = "Spirit of JHWH" (assumedly the Davidic`Herald/HolyGhost)
Angel #2 = "Spirit of Wisdom"
Angel #3 = "Spirit of Understanding"
Angel #4 = "Spirit of Counsel"
Angel #5 = "Spirit of Might"
Angel #6 = "Spirit of Knowledge"
Angel #7 = "Spirit of the Fear of JHWH"

Given this presentation, it would seem to indicate malakh`Jhwh as being the first of the quorum as opposed to eighth, he naturally being the head and presiding authority.

Plus, the Menorah (which is certainly emblematic of the Seven Eyes of JHWH..) has seven lights, not eight. Seven in general is much more significant and thematically central to the grand narrative arc of the scriptures, as BibleProject thoroughly exhibits in their Seven-Day mini-series.
Image
  • Rev`5
    I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

The spirits of authority are Holy Ghost internal. It was about him is Isaiah 11.

Michael he's the highest of seven. Jehovah above them, outside of the chain. Here...

Jehovah

1 Michael / Adam
2 Enoch
3 Noah
4 Abraham
5 Moses
6 Peter
7 Joseph Smith

8 Jahoel / James / Holy Ghost

Good! Great! 😇

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 7:37 pm 8 Jahoel / James / Holy Ghost
^Regarding the name "Jahoel" - its essentially the reversed version of the name "Elijah".

Jaho + El

Eli + Jah

I've become increasingly sympathetic to the perspective that the Davidic Herald = Elijah.
  • John`3
    No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [🤔 Elijah ascended into heaven... is he the "Son of Man"..?]
For starters, he likely gets called "the LORD" by Isaiah:
Spoiler
2 Kings 2
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Isaiah 66
For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Is this the only time Elijah gets overlapped/confused with God Himself?

Matthew 27
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, “This man is calling Elijah.”

:shock:

"Rebukes with fire", as in the case of Sodom... where the scripture refers to TWO "YHWH"'s...

Gen 18
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah, sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.
Image
And how Jesus seems to make a cryptic allusion to Elijah being the true king (as opposed to the false king Ahab...); and the destitute widow of Sidon as being the true princess (as opposed to the Sidonian false princess Jezebel..):
Spoiler
Elijah = King? 🤔

Matthew 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

What kind of clothing did Elijah wear? (also John the Baptist, who typifies him)

2 Kings 1
They answered him, “He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist.” And he said, “It is Elijah the Tishbite.”

A hairy garment = the polar opposite of the "soft clothing" of pampered kings.

Elijah is the arch-nemesis of the then-current King of Israel Ahab:

1 Kings 21
Ahab said to Elijah, “Have you found me, O my enemy?

So there appears to be a portrayal of opposites, two extremes along a spectrum. You have wicked Ahab, who wears soft clothing in the house of a king. And then you have righteous Elijah, who wears an uncomfortable hairy garb, and is homeless in the wilderness. A literary and theological foil duo.

So back to Jesus's speech:

Matt 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

So the dichotomy being presented seems clear enough. "Soft clothing" ---> those who live in kings' houses. But rough/hairy clothing = :?:

Something interesting about Elijah, and his drawn-out cameo in 1 & 2 Kings which forms the centerpiece of the text:
Fr. Stephen: And we’re going to see a lot of ways as we go on, but it begins with how he’s [Elijah] treated in the text, because we sometimes take for granted or haven’t thought about the fact that the story of Elijah and Elisha, whom we’re also going to talk about tonight, that story is in the books of the Kings. Neither of them are kings. So these books, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings, or 1-4 Kingdoms, if you’re in the Orthodox Study Bible, are very clearly written by the same person, but they completely change format in order to tell us the stories of Elijah and Elisha.
Fr. Andrew: So does that suggest we’ve got an insertion from some other author?
Fr. Stephen: No, because they’re very clearly written by the same author, stylistically. Stylistically and everything, they match up, and they’re part of the overall arc of the story that’s being told, but you get the story of Samuel, the story of David—or which leads into the story of Saul which leads into David, Solomon. Then you get the divided kingdoms and the books of the Kings. And you have these lists of the kings, a few things about them, whether they were good or bad, a few stories. There’s this rhythm that gets set up, and then all of a sudden, once you get past Omri to his son Ahab, all of a sudden that pattern breaks, and it’s: Now we’re going to follow the Prophet Elijah and then the Prophet Elisha. And then after Elisha it goes back to that previous rhythm and format.
Fr. Andrew: Yeah, which kind of suggests that God is sort of following the kings and then, because the king becomes a complete jerk… [Laughter] I can say those kinds of things about Ahab. Then, the focus then is on the man of God, who is the leader of the people, effectively.
1 & 2 Kings follow a formulaic pattern that focuses and hones-in on the lives and reigns of the various kings of Israel & Judah. As explained in the quote above, this pattern is broken once Elijah (and later on Elisha) steps onto the scene, only to resume back to normal later in 2 Kings, after the detailed account of their stories, forming some type of literary interlude.

1 & 2 Kings = an account of the various Israelite kings, with the story of Elijah sandwiched right in the middle...

I reckon this stylistic design is deliberate and intentional, and that Elijah = the true king.

It makes sense considering his contrast/inversion with the false king Ahab. And the dichotomy between the rough/hairy clothing of a hermit-prophet, and soft luxurious clothing = worn by rulers.

And notice how Jesus doesn't say soft clothing is for kings. But rather, "those who live in kings' houses". As if the person in the royal palace (Ahab) = not the real king:

Matthew 11
But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

Just as Elijah = the righteous, true version and counterpart of king Ahab -- so I likewise suggest that the widow of Zarapheth = the righteous, true version of queen Jezebel.

Like Ahab & Elijah, the widow and Jezebel are portrayed as opposites, polar extremes on the spectrum. Both of them are Sidonian women, however one is a princess who wears princess clothes, and who oppresses the poor/needy of Israel from her high seat of royal authority. She who is prophesied to suffer widowhood + childlessness in a sudden moment:

Isaiah 47
Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, “I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children”:
These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments.

The other is a widow, who almost ends up childless when her fatherless son dies (Elijah brings him back to life)

1 Kings 17
So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, a widow was there gathering sticks. And he called to her and said, “Bring me a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.”
And as she was going to bring it, he called to her and said, “Bring me a morsel of bread in your hand.”
And she said, “As the LORD your God lives, I have nothing baked, only a handful of flour in a jar and a little oil in a jug. And now I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it and die.”
Image
maybe Elijah = the true king, and the Sidonian woman = the true queen..

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Luke »

abijah` wrote: November 12th, 2021, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 7:37 pm 8 Jahoel / James / Holy Ghost
^Regarding the name "Jahoel" - its essentially the reversed version of the name "Elijah".

Jaho + El

Eli + Jah

I've become increasingly sympathetic to the perspective that the Davidic Herald = Elijah.
  • John`3
    No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [🤔 Elijah ascended into heaven... is he the "Son of Man"..?]
For starters, he likely gets called "the LORD" by Isaiah:
Spoiler
2 Kings 2
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Isaiah 66
For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Is this the only time Elijah gets overlapped/confused with God Himself?

Matthew 27
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, “This man is calling Elijah.”

:shock:

"Rebukes with fire", as in the case of Sodom... where the scripture refers to TWO "YHWH"'s...

Gen 18
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah, sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.
Image
And how Jesus seems to make a cryptic allusion to Elijah being the true king (as opposed to the false king Ahab...); and the destitute widow of Sidon as being the true princess (as opposed to the Sidonian false princess Jezebel..):
Spoiler
Elijah = King? 🤔

Matthew 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

What kind of clothing did Elijah wear? (also John the Baptist, who typifies him)

2 Kings 1
They answered him, “He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist.” And he said, “It is Elijah the Tishbite.”

A hairy garment = the polar opposite of the "soft clothing" of pampered kings.

Elijah is the arch-nemesis of the then-current King of Israel Ahab:

1 Kings 21
Ahab said to Elijah, “Have you found me, O my enemy?

So there appears to be a portrayal of opposites, two extremes along a spectrum. You have wicked Ahab, who wears soft clothing in the house of a king. And then you have righteous Elijah, who wears an uncomfortable hairy garb, and is homeless in the wilderness. A literary and theological foil duo.

So back to Jesus's speech:

Matt 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

So the dichotomy being presented seems clear enough. "Soft clothing" ---> those who live in kings' houses. But rough/hairy clothing = :?:

Something interesting about Elijah, and his drawn-out cameo in 1 & 2 Kings which forms the centerpiece of the text:
Fr. Stephen: And we’re going to see a lot of ways as we go on, but it begins with how he’s [Elijah] treated in the text, because we sometimes take for granted or haven’t thought about the fact that the story of Elijah and Elisha, whom we’re also going to talk about tonight, that story is in the books of the Kings. Neither of them are kings. So these books, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings, or 1-4 Kingdoms, if you’re in the Orthodox Study Bible, are very clearly written by the same person, but they completely change format in order to tell us the stories of Elijah and Elisha.
Fr. Andrew: So does that suggest we’ve got an insertion from some other author?
Fr. Stephen: No, because they’re very clearly written by the same author, stylistically. Stylistically and everything, they match up, and they’re part of the overall arc of the story that’s being told, but you get the story of Samuel, the story of David—or which leads into the story of Saul which leads into David, Solomon. Then you get the divided kingdoms and the books of the Kings. And you have these lists of the kings, a few things about them, whether they were good or bad, a few stories. There’s this rhythm that gets set up, and then all of a sudden, once you get past Omri to his son Ahab, all of a sudden that pattern breaks, and it’s: Now we’re going to follow the Prophet Elijah and then the Prophet Elisha. And then after Elisha it goes back to that previous rhythm and format.
Fr. Andrew: Yeah, which kind of suggests that God is sort of following the kings and then, because the king becomes a complete jerk… [Laughter] I can say those kinds of things about Ahab. Then, the focus then is on the man of God, who is the leader of the people, effectively.
1 & 2 Kings follow a formulaic pattern that focuses and hones-in on the lives and reigns of the various kings of Israel & Judah. As explained in the quote above, this pattern is broken once Elijah (and later on Elisha) steps onto the scene, only to resume back to normal later in 2 Kings, after the detailed account of their stories, forming some type of literary interlude.

1 & 2 Kings = an account of the various Israelite kings, with the story of Elijah sandwiched right in the middle...

I reckon this stylistic design is deliberate and intentional, and that Elijah = the true king.

It makes sense considering his contrast/inversion with the false king Ahab. And the dichotomy between the rough/hairy clothing of a hermit-prophet, and soft luxurious clothing = worn by rulers.

And notice how Jesus doesn't say soft clothing is for kings. But rather, "those who live in kings' houses". As if the person in the royal palace (Ahab) = not the real king:

Matthew 11
But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

Just as Elijah = the righteous, true version and counterpart of king Ahab -- so I likewise suggest that the widow of Zarapheth = the righteous, true version of queen Jezebel.

Like Ahab & Elijah, the widow and Jezebel are portrayed as opposites, polar extremes on the spectrum. Both of them are Sidonian women, however one is a princess who wears princess clothes, and who oppresses the poor/needy of Israel from her high seat of royal authority. She who is prophesied to suffer widowhood + childlessness in a sudden moment:

Isaiah 47
Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, “I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children”:
These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments.

The other is a widow, who almost ends up childless when her fatherless son dies (Elijah brings him back to life)

1 Kings 17
So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, a widow was there gathering sticks. And he called to her and said, “Bring me a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.”
And as she was going to bring it, he called to her and said, “Bring me a morsel of bread in your hand.”
And she said, “As the LORD your God lives, I have nothing baked, only a handful of flour in a jar and a little oil in a jug. And now I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it and die.”
Image
maybe Elijah = the true king, and the Sidonian woman = the true queen..
Well Joseph plainly ascribes the office of Elijah to the OMAS in his 10 March 1844 (“Elias, Elijah, Messiah”) discourse

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

Eli-jahu

Jahu-Eli

GOD LORD

LORD GOD

They are the same. Well... Close enough. Apocalypse of Abraham, that book has name in him and the Holy Ghost. 1899 by Joseph F. Smith through New Era and NOTHING within canon. He should have had. GOD is not happy. So... It is with that the Jahu-Eli the same as Eli-Jahu.... Or will be very soon.

HalleluJAH

To JAHohvah and JAHoel

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Re: Role/Identity of the End Times Servant

Post by BeNotDeceived »

jmack wrote: August 28th, 2019, 9:56 am
... That's confusing and not in keeping with the prophecies and scriptures that refer to the last days. It ignores that we are warned of the many false prophets that will come to deceive. How can you be sure you aren't being deceived, since even the very elect can be? ...
What scriptures say this?

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Bronco73idi »

abijah` wrote: November 12th, 2021, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: November 12th, 2021, 7:37 pm 8 Jahoel / James / Holy Ghost
^Regarding the name "Jahoel" - its essentially the reversed version of the name "Elijah".

Jaho + El

Eli + Jah

I've become increasingly sympathetic to the perspective that the Davidic Herald = Elijah.
  • John`3
    No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [🤔 Elijah ascended into heaven... is he the "Son of Man"..?]
For starters, he likely gets called "the LORD" by Isaiah:
Spoiler
2 Kings 2
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Isaiah 66
For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Is this the only time Elijah gets overlapped/confused with God Himself?

Matthew 27
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, “This man is calling Elijah.”

:shock:

"Rebukes with fire", as in the case of Sodom... where the scripture refers to TWO "YHWH"'s...

Gen 18
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah, sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.
Image
And how Jesus seems to make a cryptic allusion to Elijah being the true king (as opposed to the false king Ahab...); and the destitute widow of Sidon as being the true princess (as opposed to the Sidonian false princess Jezebel..):
Spoiler
Elijah = King? 🤔

Matthew 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

What kind of clothing did Elijah wear? (also John the Baptist, who typifies him)

2 Kings 1
They answered him, “He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist.” And he said, “It is Elijah the Tishbite.”

A hairy garment = the polar opposite of the "soft clothing" of pampered kings.

Elijah is the arch-nemesis of the then-current King of Israel Ahab:

1 Kings 21
Ahab said to Elijah, “Have you found me, O my enemy?

So there appears to be a portrayal of opposites, two extremes along a spectrum. You have wicked Ahab, who wears soft clothing in the house of a king. And then you have righteous Elijah, who wears an uncomfortable hairy garb, and is homeless in the wilderness. A literary and theological foil duo.

So back to Jesus's speech:

Matt 11
What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.

So the dichotomy being presented seems clear enough. "Soft clothing" ---> those who live in kings' houses. But rough/hairy clothing = :?:

Something interesting about Elijah, and his drawn-out cameo in 1 & 2 Kings which forms the centerpiece of the text:
Fr. Stephen: And we’re going to see a lot of ways as we go on, but it begins with how he’s [Elijah] treated in the text, because we sometimes take for granted or haven’t thought about the fact that the story of Elijah and Elisha, whom we’re also going to talk about tonight, that story is in the books of the Kings. Neither of them are kings. So these books, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings, or 1-4 Kingdoms, if you’re in the Orthodox Study Bible, are very clearly written by the same person, but they completely change format in order to tell us the stories of Elijah and Elisha.
Fr. Andrew: So does that suggest we’ve got an insertion from some other author?
Fr. Stephen: No, because they’re very clearly written by the same author, stylistically. Stylistically and everything, they match up, and they’re part of the overall arc of the story that’s being told, but you get the story of Samuel, the story of David—or which leads into the story of Saul which leads into David, Solomon. Then you get the divided kingdoms and the books of the Kings. And you have these lists of the kings, a few things about them, whether they were good or bad, a few stories. There’s this rhythm that gets set up, and then all of a sudden, once you get past Omri to his son Ahab, all of a sudden that pattern breaks, and it’s: Now we’re going to follow the Prophet Elijah and then the Prophet Elisha. And then after Elisha it goes back to that previous rhythm and format.
Fr. Andrew: Yeah, which kind of suggests that God is sort of following the kings and then, because the king becomes a complete jerk… [Laughter] I can say those kinds of things about Ahab. Then, the focus then is on the man of God, who is the leader of the people, effectively.
1 & 2 Kings follow a formulaic pattern that focuses and hones-in on the lives and reigns of the various kings of Israel & Judah. As explained in the quote above, this pattern is broken once Elijah (and later on Elisha) steps onto the scene, only to resume back to normal later in 2 Kings, after the detailed account of their stories, forming some type of literary interlude.

1 & 2 Kings = an account of the various Israelite kings, with the story of Elijah sandwiched right in the middle...

I reckon this stylistic design is deliberate and intentional, and that Elijah = the true king.

It makes sense considering his contrast/inversion with the false king Ahab. And the dichotomy between the rough/hairy clothing of a hermit-prophet, and soft luxurious clothing = worn by rulers.

And notice how Jesus doesn't say soft clothing is for kings. But rather, "those who live in kings' houses". As if the person in the royal palace (Ahab) = not the real king:

Matthew 11
But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

Just as Elijah = the righteous, true version and counterpart of king Ahab -- so I likewise suggest that the widow of Zarapheth = the righteous, true version of queen Jezebel.

Like Ahab & Elijah, the widow and Jezebel are portrayed as opposites, polar extremes on the spectrum. Both of them are Sidonian women, however one is a princess who wears princess clothes, and who oppresses the poor/needy of Israel from her high seat of royal authority. She who is prophesied to suffer widowhood + childlessness in a sudden moment:

Isaiah 47
Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, “I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children”:
These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments.

The other is a widow, who almost ends up childless when her fatherless son dies (Elijah brings him back to life)

1 Kings 17
So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, a widow was there gathering sticks. And he called to her and said, “Bring me a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.”
And as she was going to bring it, he called to her and said, “Bring me a morsel of bread in your hand.”
And she said, “As the LORD your God lives, I have nothing baked, only a handful of flour in a jar and a little oil in a jug. And now I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it and die.”
Image
maybe Elijah = the true king, and the Sidonian woman = the true queen..
So you are saying a blue collar worker? Soft clothes is what the current church teaches to strive for. Pharisees were soft clothes and Jesus was a blue collar worker.

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by SPIRIT »

SPIRIT wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 10:29 am
SPIRIT wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 10:16 am
XEmilyX wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 7:22 am So with the davidic servant does he go through some sort of boot camp training for miracles? Curious
yes.
Can't find everything right now - and all the scriptures from Isaiah,
but here is something for now.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62500&p=1197697&hi ... s#p1197697

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52486&p=1000611&hil ... s#p1000611

Gileadi
"Sadly, as entire messianic constructs built up in people’s minds on faulty interpretive foundations inherited from the Dark Ages of apostasy mislead the masses even to this day, it seems apparent that God’s end-time servant and those servants of God who act of proxy saviors under the terms of the Davidic Covenant in restoring his end-time people and preparing them to meet Jehovah/Jesus at his coming must experience their descent phases of trials and afflictions at the hands of those very same misled masses who refuse to invest their time in analyzing Isaiah’s and other messianic prophecies to determine for themselves what they actually say, but who instead are content to parrot back what they are led to believe they say.
Such is the paradox of God’s people’s interpersonal relationships: that those who are most “vigilant for his word” (Isaiah 66:5)—as evidenced by their searching the scriptures to see “whether those things are so” (Acts 17:11)—should suffer most at the hands of ecclesiastical brethren who, to their own condemnation, hold fast to popular but scripturally unsupported “precepts of men” (Isaiah 29:13; 51:7; 61:7; 65:13–15; 66:5)."
from another comment I made -

actually, the reason he's not known,
is simple because the Lord want's it that way,
until "Jehovah empowers him"
"when my God became my strength"

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/49#commentary

Isaiah 49
Jehovah empowers his servant after he is rejected to restore his people and to implement their new exodus.

1 Hear me, O isles; listen, you distant peoples:
Jehovah called me before I was in the belly;
before I was in my mother’s womb,
he mentioned me by name.

Jehovah having spoken of his servant (cf. Isaiah 41:1-3, 25-27; 42:1-7; 44:26-28; 45:1-6, 13; 46:11-13; 48:14-15), the servant speaks of himself, asserting Jehovah foreordained him before his mother conceived him. Jehovah’s “naming” him and “calling” him to an international mission—to “the isles” and “distant people”—signify ascent to the seraph category. Jehovah had likewise called Jeremiah to an international mission before his birth: “Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came out of the womb, I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5, 10).

2 He has made my mouth like a sharp sword—
in the shadow of his hand he hid me.
He has made me into a polished arrow—
in his quiver he kept me secret.

Jehovah’s “hiding” and “secreting” his servant suggests that the world knows nothing of his calling until the time Jehovah empowers him.
Even Jehovah’s people don’t know him or are ignorant of him until he fulfills his mission: “You will summon a nation that you did not know; a nation that did not know you will hasten to you” (Isaiah 55:5). He himself, therefore, is one of the “new things” Jehovah does suddenly that test the loyalty of his people (Isaiah 42:9; 48:6-8; 51:4-11).
The terms mouth, sword, hand, and arrow designate Jehovah’s servant metaphorically (Isaiah 31:8; 51:16; 62:2-3).

3 He said to me, You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 I had thought, I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing
and to no purpose!
Yet my cause rested with Jehovah,
my recompense with my God.

Jehovah’s calling his servant “Israel” parallels Jehovah’s calling his people’s ancestor Jacob by his new name Israel after Jacob had proven loyal to him (Genesis 32:28). The servant’s receiving a new name, in other words—which the name Israel here symbolizes—attests to his ascent to a higher spiritual level after he has proven loyal to Jehovah. It also implies that he—Jehovah’s individual servant—serves as a surrogate of and as an exemplar to Jehovah’s collective servant; that is, to Jehovah’s people in the Jacob/Israel category to whom Jehovah sends him (vv 5-9; Isaiah 41:27; 42:6-7; 48:16).

One way the servant proves loyal is to continue laboring in Jehovah’s cause even in the face of few positive results. By all appearances, he at first spends a great deal of energy “in vain” and “for nothing and to no purpose.” And yet, desiring to serve Jehovah even under the most adversarial conditions (v 7; Isaiah 50:6-9; 52:13-14),
he submits to Jehovah’s will: “My Lord Jehovah has endowed me with a learned tongue, that I may know how to preach to those grown weary a word to wake them up” (Isaiah 50:4).
Before ascending to Isaiah’s seraph level, he descends through trials that consume him.

5 For now Jehovah has said—
he who formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him,
Israel having been gathered to him;
for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah
when my God became my strength—
6 he said: It is too small a thing
for you to be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations,b
that my salvation may be to the end of the earth.

A reversal of circumstances takes place for Jehovah’s servant when the trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level, thereby qualifying him for a new commission. Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) “to the end of the earth.” From there, Jehovah’s people are to return (Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:5-6), so that all who desire it might participate in Jehovah’s salvation and prepare for Jehovah’s coming as salvation (Isaiah 52:7; 62:11).

Jehovah “appoints” his servant when he “wins honor” in Jehovah’s eyes by proving faithful through trials (v 4), at which time his God becomes his “strength.” The servant’s physical exploits that follow—subduing nations, releasing captives, leading the new exodus, and rebuilding ruins (Isaiah 9:2-5; 11:10-16; 41:2-3, 25; 45:1-3, 13; 48:14; 61:1-4)—should thus be seen in the context of an ascent phase of divine empowerment that follows his descent phase through afflictions as he fulfills his role of proxy savior to the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant.
just wanted to add this edited version -
taken from another thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63805&p=1206477#p1206477

The Lord HAS been preparing him, but has not revealed him;
but he may not even know who he is yet until the Lord empowers him;
and "when my God became my strength— " Isaiah 49:5
after the "trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level,
thereby qualifying him for a new commission.
Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission
to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles”

you may want to take a look at this translation
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/legacy/ ... ch_49.html

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/49#commentary

Isaiah 49
Jehovah empowers his servant after he is rejected to restore his people and to implement their new exodus.

1 Hear me, O isles; listen, you distant peoples:Jehovah called me before I was in the belly;before I was in my mother’s womb,he mentioned me by name.

Jehovah having spoken of his servant (cf. Isaiah 41:1-3, 25-27; 42:1-7; 44:26-28; 45:1-6, 13; 46:11-13; 48:14-15), the servant speaks of himself, asserting Jehovah foreordained him before his mother conceived him. Jehovah’s “naming” him and “calling” him to an international mission—to “the isles” and “distant people”—signify ascent to the seraph category. Jehovah had likewise called Jeremiah to an international mission before his birth: “Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came out of the womb, I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5, 10).

2 He has made my mouth like a sharp sword—in the shadow of his hand he hid me. He has made me into a polished arrow—in his quiver he kept me secret.

Jehovah’s “hiding” and “secreting” his servant suggests that the world knows nothing of his calling until the time Jehovah empowers him.
Even Jehovah’s people don’t know him or are ignorant of him until he fulfills his mission:
“You will summon a nation that you did not know; a nation that did not know you will hasten to you” (Isaiah 55:5).
He himself, therefore, is one of the “new things” Jehovah does suddenly that test the loyalty of his people (Isaiah 42:9; 48:6-8; 51:4-11).
The terms mouth, sword, hand, and arrow designate Jehovah’s servant metaphorically (Isaiah 31:8; 51:16; 62:2-3).

3 He said to me, You are my servant,Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 I had thought, I have labored in vain,I have spent my strength for nothing and to no purpose!
Yet my cause rested with Jehovah,my recompense with my God.

Jehovah’s calling his servant “Israel” parallels Jehovah’s calling his people’s ancestor Jacob by his new name Israel after Jacob had proven loyal to him (Genesis 32:28). The servant’s receiving a new name, in other words—which the name Israel here symbolizes—attests to his ascent to a higher spiritual level after he has proven loyal to Jehovah. It also implies that he—Jehovah’s individual servant—serves as a surrogate of and as an exemplar to Jehovah’s collective servant; that is, to Jehovah’s people in the Jacob/Israel category to whom Jehovah sends him (vv 5-9; Isaiah 41:27; 42:6-7; 48:16).

One way the servant proves loyal is to continue laboring in Jehovah’s cause even in the face of few positive results. By all appearances, he at first spends a great deal of energy “in vain” and “for nothing and to no purpose.” And yet, desiring to serve Jehovah even under the most adversarial conditions (v 7; Isaiah 50:6-9; 52:13-14), he submits to Jehovah’s will:

“My Lord Jehovah has endowed me with a learned tongue, that I may know how to preach to those grown weary a word to wake them up” (Isaiah 50:4).

Before ascending to Isaiah’s seraph level, he descends through trials that consume him.

5 For now Jehovah has said—he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him,Israel having been gathered to him; for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah when my God became my strength—

6 he said: It is too small thing for you to be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations, that my salvation may be to the end of the earth.


A reversal of circumstances takes place for Jehovah’s servant when the trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level, thereby qualifying him for a new commission.

Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) “to the end of the earth.” From there, Jehovah’s people are to return (Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:5-6), so that all who desire it might participate in Jehovah’s salvation and prepare for Jehovah’s coming as salvation (Isaiah 52:7; 62:11).

Jehovah “appoints” his servant when he “wins honor” in Jehovah’s eyes by proving faithful through trials (v 4), at which time his God becomes his “strength.”
The servant’s physical exploits that follow—subduing nations, releasing captives, leading the new exodus, and rebuilding ruins (Isaiah 9:2-5; 11:10-16; 41:2-3, 25; 45:1-3, 13; 48:14; 61:1-4)—should thus be seen in the context of an ascent phase of divine empowerment that follows his descent phase through afflictions as he fulfills his role of proxy savior to the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant.

7 Thus says Jehovah,the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel,to him who is despised as a person,who is abhorred by his nation,a servant to those in authority:Kings shall rise up when they see you, princes shall prostrate themselves,because Jehovah keeps faith with you,because the Holy One of Israel has chosen you.

Although Jehovah’s servant is at first “despised as a person” and “abhorred by his nation” as his own reject him,
Jehovah exalts him in the eyes of those who see him as a threat to their authority.
Jehovah rewards his servant’s faithfulness toward him in the face of opposition with his own acts of faithfulness toward his servant.

Henceforth, as the servant begins the temporal phase of Jacob/Israel’s restoration, he becomes prominent worldwide (Isaiah 11:10-12; 52:15; 55:5). Kings and princes now honor him who was dishonored and assist in the restoration of Jehovah’s people (vv 22-23; Isaiah 60:3-11).

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Identity of the Davidic Servant

Post by BeNotDeceived »

XEmilyX wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 7:22 am So with the davidic servant does he go through some sort of boot camp training for miracles? Curious
Yup :P

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=62101&p=1166940&hi ... e#p1166940 Shows him sighting in on an 8.1 mag earthquake as the fourth in a series that began with a 5.7, then bumped up 0.8 to 6.5, then a 7.3 that he invited. Next was a near miss at 8.2, then a direct hit at 8.1 looks to have sited in his EQ Gun, or something like that. :lol:
https://talonprecisionoptics.com/technology/how-it-works/ wrote: How Accurate?
Elite marksmen using today’s most accurate rifles, optics, rangefinders, and ammunition can group shots within 4 inches of their aim point at .57 miles. With a TrackingPoint firearm, your shots will strike within 0.5 inches of your aim point at .57 miles.
Michael Sherwin wrote: January 4th, 2021, 8:40 pm I was a US Air Force marksman!
Sharp Shooting is something I did in Basic at Lackland AFB. It's not easy!

5.7 or 57 may be said to be emblematic of him, as can be clearly seen from the above, and some of his writings. The timing of the 5.7 EQ that landed Moroni's Instrument was amazing, as may be seen via search.php?keywords=38ii
Image

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

Bronco73idi wrote: November 15th, 2021, 8:17 pm So you are saying a blue collar worker? Soft clothes is what the current church teaches to strive for. Pharisees were soft clothes and Jesus was a blue collar worker.
Yeah something kind of like that i reckon
Its a literary foil.

LITERARY FOIL: "In any narrative, a foil is a character who contrasts with another character; typically, a character who contrasts with the protagonist, in order to better highlight or differentiate certain qualities of the protagonist. A foil to the protagonist may also be the antagonist of the plot."

The foil between the true ruler of Israel, who is a wandering hermit dressed in rough clothes ---> versus the illegitimate rulers who abide "in kings' houses", in soft clothing.
  • 2 Kings 1
    They answered him, “He wore a garment of hair [rough clothing], with a belt of leather about his waist.” And he said, “It is Elijah the Tishbite.”
versus...


"she painted her eyes.." 🤔
Spoiler
Image

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Posts: 3481

Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

sushi_chef wrote: June 14th, 2017, 7:48 pm "Let’s start with the Gospel of Nicodemus 20. Jesus is taking the first man, Adam, from hell to Paradise, and waiting for them in Paradise are Enoch and Elijah. The saints going to Paradise ask these two men who they are, since these two men had not been with them in hell. Enoch responds that they are Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were translated by God to Paradise. Enoch then says:

“Here we have hitherto been and have not tasted death, but are now about to return at the coming of Antichrist, being armed with divine signs and miracles, to engage with him in battle, and to be slain by him at Jerusalem, and to be taken up alive again into the clouds, after three days and a half” (translation from The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eden).

Those are things that the two witnesses do in Revelation 11.

In Apocalypse of Elijah 4, Enoch and Elijah come down and challenge the Antichrist after he has manifested himself at the Temple. They call him a stranger who is acting against heaven and earth. They say that he fell from heaven and they call him a devil. The Antichrist fights them in the marketplace for seven days and kills them. They rise again, and they challenge the Antichrist for deceiving the people of God, for whom the Antichrist did not suffer (whereas Jesus had suffered for them).
"
https://jamesbradfordpate.wordpress.com ... nicodemus/
:-B
Enoch is certainly a possibility, and one I remain open to, but for now the Two Witnesses being probly Moses and Elijah makes a lottle more sense to me.
  • Matthew 17
    And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.
    And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
Let's analyse Rev`11:
  • Revelation 11
    They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.
This is the ^stuff that Moses and Elijah do. you can break it down:

"They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying.."

Who has "power to shut the sky that no rain may fall? 🤔
  • 1‘Kings 17
    Now Elijah the Tishbite, of Tishbe in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the LORD, the God of Israel, lives, before whom I stand, there shall be neither dew nor rain these years, except by my word.”
Now consider that in the scriptural context. Ahab, and thru his foreignwife marriage Jezebel, had made Baal worship the state religion. Who is Baal? The Storm‘God who brings the rain...
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/make_straight_the_paths_for_our_god wrote: Fr. Andrew: Yeah. I was just going to say, just to kind of… I mean, we talked about Baal lots of times, but just to remind everybody: Baal is depicted as a storm-god; he’s a thunder-god. He’s the one who brings lightning and rain, and as we’ve talked before his story says that he sets himself up as… He’s installed a new most-high god, who is his father, El, up on the divine council, and then he rules the divine council directly himself. So this is the one that they’re worshiping and the one that they’re trying to assimilate the northern kingdom to, is this storm-god, this usurper.
Fr. Stephen: Right. Cloud-rider is one of his titles, and we’ve talked before about how that imagery and stuff gets taken in the Old Testament and applied instead to Yahweh, to say, no, it’s Yahweh who does this. And so this is going to be where sort of the rubber meets the road. What Yahweh, the God of Israel, is going to do, is through Elijah he’s going to demonstrate to Ahab, Jezebel, and all the people of the northern kingdom who he is and who Baal isn’t.
Fr. Andrew: Yeah, right! [Laughter] And, you know, one of the cool ways that it starts out is kind of the contrast between Elijah and the royals. They’re living in luxury, controlling everything, and where is Elijah? He’s out in the Kidron Valley. He lives by himself, out in the wilderness;

So he’s out there, wearing camel-hair, and even his, in the Hebrew, his dialogue is pretty curt and stunted. There’s a lot of… We see a lot in the writing prophets, like Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel, these kind of eloquent speeches and imagery and all of this. That’s not Elijah! St. Elias isn’t into that. So when he first comes wandering into the royal court to confront Ahab, he basically says the equivalent of: “Ain’t gonna rain no more.”
Fr. Andrew: Right? “Rain. Stopping.” [Laughter]
Fr. Stephen: “No more rain.” Just drops that; mic drops and walks back out. And that’s it, and he leaves. And it stops raining for years. So he’s just informing them that it’s not going to rain any more! [Laughter] Now, this already is a display, because the fact that Elijah comes and announces it as the prophet of Yahweh means Yahweh’s the one who’s not sending the rain. And the whole purpose of worshiping Baal—well, there were two purposes of worshiping Baal as a storm-god: the first one was to get him to send the rains in their seasons, and the second one was to ward off destructive storms. Keep him happy so that he gave you the rain you wanted and he didn’t give you the storm and lightning that you didn’t want.
God is not only bringing about plague upon the apostate Northern Kingdom by causing via Elijah a 3-year Drought (and consequently, Famine), but he is deliberately portraying his earthly servant/representative as functioning in the role of their false god. Their custom = sacrifice to Baal for rain to come, so we have abundant crops come harvest. Baal is the cloud‘rider and the rainmaker. 🌬⛈

Well here, its not Baal, but Elijah who commands the sky, the de-facto rain`maker.

God is not merely punishing an apostate people. He is punishing an apostate god.

"..and they have power over the waters..."

This part of the verse is interesting, because Moses & Elijah both have "power over the waters". You got to remember, biblical cosmology = the waters above ⬆️🌧💧☔️⬆️ -------- and the waters below ⬇️💧🌊☃️⬇️
  • Genesis 1
    And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
    And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.
Elijah has power over the ⬆️waters`above, and Moses has power over the waters`below⬇️

Moses leading the children of Israel thru the Re(e)d Sea "on dry ground" with the waters separated one from the other on opposite-facing sides is purposely reminiscent of the waters-division going on at the Creation back in Genesis 1.

It's one of JHWH's "wonders" he said he would do, in the sight of not merely the Egyptians and Pharaoh alone... but also the gods of Egypt:
  • Exodus 12
    ...and on all the gods of Egypt, I will execute judgments: I am the LORD
Not only is JHWH showing that He alone is the primordial Creator‘God, but he is also portraying his covenant`people as being protected from both the forces of Egypt (by means of the Angel's Fire`Pillar), as well as from the Egyptian Dragon which had authority/jurisdiction over the principality of the Re(e)d Sea/Nile
  • Isaiah 11 [Endtimes] And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the River with his scorching breath [like that of the two witnesses'..? 🤔], and strike it into seven channels, and he will lead people across in sandals.
And its not just the primordial chaos`dragon Leviathan that he's singling out. He's also going after Atum, creator-god of the Egyptians:
https://bibleproject.com/podcast/does-bible-borrow-other-creation-stories/ wrote: The Creator Who Created Himself

Tim and Jon take a closer look at the cosmology of the ancient Egyptians, with a brief examination of the Pyramid Texts and the Coffin Texts.

The Egyptian creator is called Atum, or Nun, the unordered, watery substance from which all things emerged. The pre-created reality, or non-creation, was a chaotic watery condition, devoid of life but containing the potential for life.
Atum began to evolve and differentiate himself from his watery incubation onto a primeval mound of dirt, and from there he began a process of self-development, or creation.
Atum generated the rest of the Ennea, a cluster of eight other deities. These included Shu (goddess of air) and Tefnut (goddess of moisture), from whom come Nut (goddess of sky) and Geb (god of earth). Atum took on the role of the “eye of all creation” as the sun-god Re. All the gods worked together in a form of order called Ma’at, the eternal divine order that upholds all creation.

Egyptian and Hebrew creation accounts both start with non-existence represented by chaotic waters. Like Genesis 1-11, whenever Egyptian gods overcome evil and chaos, they crush the heads of serpents. However, a notable difference between the two worldviews is that the Egyptian creator is not an uncreated, eternally preexistent being (like Yahweh). Atum created himself from the chaotic waters. Atum is the first self-caused cause, which is a form of pantheism.
So again, we see this way the Lord works. He isn't merely punishing the Egyptians and Pharaoh... but also portraying his people as being like Atum, w/
the waters receding from them.

Moses is the great Lawgiver, and Elijah is the paradigmatic prophet.
Fr. Stephen: In classic Lord of Spirits podcast fashion, we’re going to go back first, though in this case we’re not headed all the way back to Genesis—I know it’s a big shocker, everybody—but rather back to the books of Kings. And we’re not talking first about the last of the prophets, but rather the prophet that is sort of the prophet, the paradigmatic prophet, and that is the Prophet Elijah. So, Fr. Stephen, why is Prophet Elijah the paradigmatic prophet? Boy, that’s easy to say… “Paradigmatic prophet.” [Laughter]
Fr. Stephen: Lots of hard consonants. We’re going Welsh tonight.
Fr. Andrew: [Laughter] Too many vowels for Welsh.
Fr. Stephen: And we are, indeed, varying up our usual format this evening.
Fr. Andrew: Yes, just a touch.
Fr. Stephen: Well, in a couple of ways. So we need to prepare people.
Fr. Andrew: Okay.
Fr. Stephen: But we’re starting with Elijah, and Elijah or St. Elias or Ilyas or Louis, if you’re French-speaking, is the paradigmatic prophet not just in the sense that, well, this is the prophet we have a lot of information about, or a lot of other prophets look like him or act like him, but in the way, first and foremost, that he’s treated by the text of the Old Testament.
Fr. Andrew: Yeah, so why isn’t Moses? If someone just threw that at me: “Who’s the paradigmatic prophet?” I would probably have guessed Moses. Why isn’t Moses the one?
Fr. Stephen: You could make a good argument for Moses, in the sense that you have the prophecy of a prophet like Moses in Deuteronomy, but Moses has a different role than most of the later prophets. I don’t want to go too far down this rabbit-trail, but Moses at the beginning of his calling is actually sort of a prophet, a priest, and a king all at once. Part of that gets taken away from him, and that’s a whole other discussion. So when we’re talking about Moses as a paradigm, it’s usually Moses as a type of Christ himself.
Fr. Andrew: The Law-giver.
Fr. Stephen: Whereas when we’re talking about who sets the standard for prophethood as such… And we’re going to see a lot of ways as we go on, but it begins with how he’s treated in the text, because we sometimes take for granted or haven’t thought about the fact that the story of Elijah and Elisha, whom we’re also going to talk about tonight, that story is in the books of the Kings.
So Atum is presented as emerging from the primordial depths, the imagery specifically that of the waters receding from him [Chaos subdued by Order].

So JHWH is presenting Moses, and his covenant people generally, as a portrayal of Atum, with the waters receding before them as they passed on dry ground.

JHWH is presenting himself as the true and original Creator`God not only by calling back to Day`2 in dividing Rahab's seawaters -- but to Day`3 by the imagery of the dry ground emerging from out of the waters. Niether Rahab/Leviathan, nor Atum created the world in the beginning; JHWH did.

It should be noted however, that Elijah does likewise appear to command the "waters below" -
  • 2‘Kings 2
    Then Elijah took his cloak and rolled it up and struck the water, and the water was parted to the one side and to the other, till the two of them could go over on dry ground.
"..the waters to turn them into blood..."

Obvious reference to Moses, with sacramental implications I suspect.
  • Exodus 7
    Then the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron, ‘Take your staff and raise your hand over the waters of Egypt—all its rivers, canals, ponds, and all the reservoirs. Turn all the water to blood. Everywhere in Egypt the water will turn to blood...
"strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire"

Obvious reference to the Mosaic plagues on Egypt, and less obvious reference with the "strike the earth" language..
  • Mala‘4
    And he [elijah] shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

abijah`
~dog days~
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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

  • 2 Thessa 2
    Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (Greek: "son of Apollo", aka Abaddon)
    who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
    And you know who is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
    For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way...
Till he's "out of the way"... 🤔
Image
  • Numbers 22
    So Balaam rose in the morning and saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab.
    But God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as his adversary. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him.
    And the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with a drawn sword in his hand. And the donkey turned aside out of the road and went into the field. And Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the road.
    Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, with a wall on either side.
    And when the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pushed against the wall and pressed Balaam’s foot against the wall. So he struck her again.
    Then the angel of the LORD went ahead and stood in a narrow way, where there was no way to turn either to the right or to the left.
    When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam. And Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
    Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”
    And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.”
    And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
    Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand. And he bowed down and fell on his face.
    And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to oppose you because your way is perverse before me.
    The donkey saw me and turned aside before me these three times. If she had not turned aside from me, surely just now I would have killed you and let her live.”
    Then Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, “I have sinned, for I did not know that you stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it is evil in your sight, I will turn back.”
There's this whole theme in the Bible about "the Way"..
  • Exodus 23
    Behold, I send mine Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
    Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
I suspect it likely has to do with the verse which is the first time where the word occurs.. -
  • Genesis 3
    ...flaming sword to keep the way of the Tree of Life..
The Pathway of the Return to the Garden (Presence of the Lord).

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: November 20th, 2021, 6:46 pm
  • The Pathway of the Return to the Garden (Presence of the Lord).
I suspect this might be related to the Gate Theme

Which brings me to this curious verse... -

Isaiah 29 (KJV)
That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

(ESV)
who by a word make a man out to be an offender, and lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate, and with an empty plea turn aside him who is in the right.

(NIV)
those who with a word make someone out to be guilty, who ensnare the defender in court and with false testimony deprive the innocent of justice.

(Berean)
those who indict a man with a word, who ensnare the mediator at the gate, and who with false charges deprive the innocent of justice.

Sounds like its talking about the Holy Ghost...
  • John 14
    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever...
  • John 16
    Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Paraclete will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
    And when he comes, he will reprove the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

abijah` wrote: November 20th, 2021, 7:01 pm
abijah` wrote: November 20th, 2021, 6:46 pm
  • The Pathway of the Return to the Garden (Presence of the Lord).
I suspect this might be related to the Gate Theme

Which brings me to this curious verse... -

Isaiah 29 (KJV)
That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

(ESV)
who by a word make a man out to be an offender, and lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate, and with an empty plea turn aside him who is in the right.

(NIV)
those who with a word make someone out to be guilty, who ensnare the defender in court and with false testimony deprive the innocent of justice.

(Berean)
those who indict a man with a word, who ensnare the mediator at the gate, and who with false charges deprive the innocent of justice.

Sounds like its talking about the Holy Ghost...
  • John 14
    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever...
  • John 16
    Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Paraclete will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
    And when he comes, he will reprove the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment
Correct! Just to make sure. Adam / Michael didn't make a place for himself to sit. Everything ....everything is selfless as can be. Every he made, the 8th angel is the King, The Holy Ghost.

(I added a bit where righteousness is big ... Used far more than perfection because how many of us? not many .... only one the Lord Jesus Christ)

abijah`
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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by abijah` »

Alaris wrote: November 20th, 2021, 9:36 pm Correct! Just to make sure. Adam / Michael didn't make a place for himself to sit. Everything ....everything is selfless as can be.
Well i'm not sure why/how he would/could have anyway. A more fitting theory would be JHWH`Elohim (Jesus) making/re-pairing a throne for him (aka Atonement).
Every he made, the 8th angel is the King, The Holy Ghost.
Maybe, though I don't know any scriptures calling him an 8th Angel, nor has the Lord told me anything like that.

But the scriptures do call him the angel of JHWH, His Angel, as well as things like Angel of the Presence / Angel of Faces, and I'll just go with what the scriptures say so those are the monikers I will use.

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Re: Role/Identity of the Davidic Servant/End Times Servant

Post by Alaris »

Second Apocalypse of James (Jacob)


I am the first son who was begotten. -
He will destroy the dominion of them all. -
I am the beloved
I am the righteous one
I am the son of the father

I speak even as I heard.
I command even as I received the order.
I show you even as I have found.


So... Yeah. There is that. I was first the CANON of James with nothing to flag.... James? James is the Holy Ghost.... Yes... Let me show you. Then God showed me Gnostic, like what lies above Apocalypse of James that lies beneath.

James, or Jacob, is waiting or all of you.

Joseph Smith / King Follet

I have an old edition of the New Testament in the Latin, Hebrew, German and Greek languages. I have been reading the German, and find it to be the most [nearly] correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years. It tells about Jacobus, the son of Zebedee. It means Jacob. In the English New Testament it is translated James. Now, if Jacob had the keys, you might talk about James through all eternity and never get the keys. In the 21st [verse] of the fourth chapter of Matthew, my old German edition gives the word Jacob instead of James.
The doctors (I mean doctors of law, not physic) say, “If you preach anything not according to the Bible, we will cry treason.” How can we escape the damnation of hell, except God be with us and reveal to us? Men bind us with chains. The Latin says Jacobus, which means Jacob; the Hebrew says Jacob, the Greek says Jacob and the German says Jacob, here we have the testimony of four against one. I thank God that I have got this old book; but I thank him more for the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have got the oldest book in the world; but I have got the oldest book in my heart, even the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have all the four Testaments. Come here, ye learned men, and read, if you can. I should not have introduced this testimony, were it not to back up the word rosh—the head, the Father of the Gods. I should not have brought it up, only to show that I am right.


What was Joseph Smith talking about? Gods and our conditions of man.... And the Holy Ghost... You see?

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Don't you see? Kingdom James / Jacob comes at the end of the world. There.

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