Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

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Urizen
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Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Urizen »

Greetings. I'm here because I'm hoping to gain answers on these questions from people more knowledgeable than me on these issues so I can perhaps grow in my understanding. I hope you are all happy to help in this regard.

Something I've been struggling with in regards to Latter-Day Saint doctrine is in regards to personal revelation. It's not that I doubt personal revelation but I'm concerned about how one discerns what is from God and what is not, what is ultimately trustworthy and what isn't. I've asked some of these questions to other Mormons but didn't get a satisfactory response beyond "you just have to experience it" and until these questions are answered I don't think it's wise to take up Moroni's Challenge. To cut to the chase I will begin to list them:

If you discern the Holy Ghost from what good it brings into your life and others but you believe the Bible is fallible then how do you know what is truly good since you can't say for certain what the Bible teaches in the end? I know you have the Book of Mormon but it seems like for all of Christianity (with the exception of a few fringe sects) you're inevitably going to have to go back to the Bible to support these things but I could be wrong so correct me if I am.

If you can't discern what is ultimately good then how do you know you're not being influenced by an evil or negative spirit? And even if it does bring someone to Christ then how aren't you sure it isn't the work of some evil spirit like I said before trying to dissuade people from the true denomination or religion by trapping them in delusion?

How do you ultimately know you can trust the God of the Bible and Book of Mormon and He isn't just some malevolent Demiurge like the Gnostics claimed for instance?

If ultimately you can't be entirely certain on how to discern the Holy Ghost from what isn't, is it not ultimately subjective and leads to some sort of Gnosticism where you're the one who claims to only know the Truth and no one else?

I would like to rely more on the authority of a Divine figure than that of fallible men but I don't want to fall into a spiritual trap so I'm trying to be cautious and sure before doing anything. Thank you for your answers in advance.

NewEliza
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by NewEliza »

Well, you’re asking a lot of “how do you know..” questions. But what does the Bible say about faith?

Faith is like a seed, and you won’t know what it is until it’s planted.

Can people mistakenly put their faith in something false? Yes.

But I believe that gods promise to us is that if we are keeping all his commandments, living our life the way he told us to, then he WILL reveal himself to us through his spirit.

I’d bet that Those who have unfortunately believed in false spirits or had false witnesses, were seriously lacking in some kind of area of their living.

No one is perfect, but god loves his children, and he knows which ones are sincere. The ones that are true in their desire to exercise faith and reach out to know him, He will answer.

The others, he is not obligated to answer.

NewEliza
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by NewEliza »

I’d also like to add that real faith takes practice.

I’d recommend praying a lot and asking god about it.

;)

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BeNotDeceived
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Post by BeNotDeceived »

David A. Bednar wrote:... Often, the Lord’s timing of His tender mercies helps us to both discern and acknowledge them. ... and it is often the Lord’s timing that enables us to recognize and treasure these important blessings. ... and, frequently, the Lord’s timing helps us to recognize them. ...

Timing, Timing, Timing, it doesn't get any clearer that that. :idea:

Three times the charm, and strange colors too :!:

Things such as this can be shared, whereas warm fuzzies, not so much. :P

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Luke
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Luke »

I often find that revelation I am given lines up with truth I discover at a later time. I have had many experiences like that

It's all about your experience with God. As you gain more, your relationship grows. You have to learn by experience

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Questions regarding revelations

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Luke wrote: January 28th, 2021, 8:57 am I often find that revelation I am given lines up with truth I discover at a later time. I have had many experiences like that

It's all about your experience with God. As you gain more, your relationship grows. You have to learn by experience
I looked up my post here, so to use it, for my reply in the Downstream thread. It was buried much deeper than one may expect for a recent post. Why was this the case, and how via experience, may I alleviate some confusion that results when our efforts to seek wisdom are frustrated.

So anyways, searching less than four characters doesn’t work here. Very common words won’t be found either. This is a Site Specific Value. This brings to mind what words are very common here, that are four or more characters?

Now think in terms of words you see, but also consider those that are unseen. Click here to seek a certain five letter word, that is used here, much more frequently than it is beheld by human eyes.

The derivation there is pretty straight forward name now, having gained experience. To make a five-letter-word in to a six-letter-word is to pretend a small-letter i.e. aLemon or aGrape.

Some may have experience with using an instance of a Class. Class names are capitalized, but instances of that class are not.
Let aOrange = Orange(); //is one example of a sub-class. Said Orange is a sub-class of SaidCodedSearchTerm, in an abstract sort of way. Like I said, that will make perfect sense, to those well-versed in the Swift language. While most will fail to understand due to their lack of experience.

Anyways there’s a first instance of a new word, used in a unique way, that is easily seen. Now to use it as the intersection of many rabbit holes. Downstream I go, which should be an easy breadcrumb, for anyone curious to experience said intersection.

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Thinker
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Thinker »

Urizen wrote: January 28th, 2021, 6:18 am… If you can't discern what is ultimately good then how do you know you're not being influenced by an evil or negative spirit? And even if it does bring someone to Christ then how aren't you sure it isn't the work of some evil spirit like I said before trying to dissuade people from the true denomination or religion by trapping them in delusion?

How do you ultimately know you can trust the God of the Bible and Book of Mormon and He isn't just some malevolent Demiurge like the Gnostics claimed for instance?

If ultimately you can't be entirely certain on how to discern the Holy Ghost from what isn't, is it not ultimately subjective and leads to some sort of Gnosticism where you're the one who claims to only know the Truth and no one else?

I would like to rely more on the authority of a Divine figure than that of fallible men but I don't want to fall into a spiritual trap so I'm trying to be cautious and sure before doing anything. Thank you for your answers in advance.
Great questions!
It is easy to deceive ourselves. I’ve done it myself - thought about something, felt a good spiritual feeling - then attached what I wanted (my own meaning/interpretation) to it. I realized that generally, ethics don’t contradict godliness. There are times when it’s pretty clear that it’s intuitive/spiritual guidance - when it comes out of thin air - like it’s not from you trying to attach meaning based on desires or fears.

It’s been suggested that each of us walk around with spirits holding us up - and mostly they are illusional spirits that kind of lie or don’t see truth completely - because “we can’t handle the truth!” :) Mormonism also involves a certain spirit - as does Islam, Buddhism, Taoism etc. Also Christmas, Halloween, contention, friendship… all spirits. I suppose each’s good or evil depends on what the goal is. Eg: if the goal is to bring family together - and Christmas does it like nothing else - then that’s GOoD. But if the goal is truth and Christmas teaches to worship a baby who as an adult warned against that & told the story of his birth not to be celebrated but as a spiritual parable - then the literal interpretations & material greed etc may be evil.

Think of someone you know. If you were around them 24-7 for a month, you would come to appreciate more about them, but also may get annoyed more. They have some good and bad. Same with anything - the Bible, religions - they have some good and some bad because they are created by fallible but significantly good people. Some people lied (like Eusebius) which has been believed by so many! Some have sacrificed their lives so we could learn more about the Bible (like William Tyndale).

Spiritual truth is different from historical/literal/scientific truth. Eg: The biblical story of donkey telling Balam to stop hitting them… literally taken - crazy! But when you consider donkeys symbolize women who also carry humans - it makes more sense.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Subcomandante »

It has been my experience observing how people both in and out of the Church receive revelation that I come to the following conclusions.

1. There is a God.

2. I'm not Him. But I am one of His children. All of us are.

3. Even though we are God's children, we are born in several different types of cultures and tribes. Even in these differences, there is great wisdom in God in setting up the world this way.

4. These differences allow us to truly ponder our meaning of life.

5. For those that are ready, the Lord God is willing to reveal more light and knowledge than what was had previously. For those that are not, the Lord, in an attempt to save His children, will not reveal more than what is needed because if he does so and the person rejects it, they end up condemned.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Ymarsakar »

I knew it was the holy spirit because it was an non logickal thought and very quiet but it was 100% accuratr and looking out for me.

Over time i built more trust in the relationship.

I know my own thoughts and can follow the reasoning. I cannot with fhe holy spirit.

As for good vs evil that requires faith. First u jump into the fire then you will know.

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Niemand
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Re: Questions regarding revelation/testimony from a non-Mormon/Christian

Post by Niemand »

A William Blake reference. Nice.

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