They shall deceive the very elect!

[bobhenstra]

Bob,

I wish you would quit throwing these crazy ideas of yours around willy-nilly.

It's the worst kind of false doctrine.

And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. 2 Nephi 28:8

Also, when looking under Salvation in Mormon Doctrine, please do not cherry-pick definitions to support your point. Read ALL THREE definitions, and the first two clearly illustrate why this doctrine you are teaching (everyone will be saved eventually) is incorrect.

I've already answered your questions about the three degrees of Glory, they're all in the Celestial Kingdom. You choose not to see the answers, you don't want to understand, then don't understand! No skin of'n my nose!

Hi Mark!

Bob

[serenitylala]

Here's some more information on the elect:

Elder McConkie said:

The elect of God comprise a very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the portion of church members who are striving with all their hearts to keep the fulness of the gospel law in this life, so they can become inheritors of the fulness of the gospel rewards in the life to come.... To gain this elect status, they must be endowed in the temple of the Lord (D&C 95:8), enter into that 'order of the priesthood' named 'the new and everlasting covenant of marriage' (D&C 131:1-4), and overcome by faith until, as the sons of God, they merit membership in the Church of the Firstborn (D&C 76:50-70,94-96).

The elect of God are the chosen of God; and He has said: 'there are many who have been ordained among you, whom I have called but few of them are chosen.' (D&C 95:5, D&C 121:34-40). (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 217-18).

D&C 84:33-38

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.
35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore ball that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

Elder McConkie:

This election to a chosen lineage is based on pre-existent worthiness and is thus made 'according to the foreknowledge of God' (1Peter 1:2). Those so grouped together during their mortal probation have more abundant opportunities to make and keep the covenants of salvation, a right they earned by pre-existent devotion to the cause of righteousness.

As part of the election, Abraham and others of the noble and great spirits were chosen before they were born for the particular missions assigned them in this life (Abraham 3:22-24; Rom 9:1). (Mormon Doctrine, p. 216).

Joseph Smith:

The election... here spoke of... has reference to the seed of Abraham, according to the promise God made to Abraham, saying, 'In thee, and in they seed, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.' To them belonged the adoption [into the family of Christ] and the covenants .... The election of the promised seed still continues, and in the last day, they shall have the Priesthood restored unto them, and they shall be the 'saviors on Mount Zion,' the ministers of our God.... The whole of the chapter [Romans 9] has reference to the Priesthood and the House of Israel. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 189).

[Rose Garden]

Bob,

I wish you would quit throwing these crazy ideas of yours around willy-nilly.

It's the worst kind of false doctrine.

And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. 2 Nephi 28:8

Also, when looking under Salvation in Mormon Doctrine, please do not cherry-pick definitions to support your point. Read ALL THREE definitions, and the first two clearly illustrate why this doctrine you are teaching (everyone will be saved eventually) is incorrect.

I've already answered your questions about the three degrees of Glory, they're all in the Celestial Kingdom. You choose not to see the answers, you don't want to understand, then don't understand! No skin of'n my nose!

Hi Mark!

Bob

I thought the 3 degrees in the Celestial Kingdom were different ones from the 3 named kingdoms. Maybe you could point me to a previous thread?

[bobhenstra]

OI continues to apply 2nd Nephi 8 to me, I do not accept his "cherry picking" of specific scriptures taken out of their context in his attempt to prove his point, nor do I accept his classless interpretation of a great scripture. I certainly believe that Nephi was correct, but the proper application of context for those of us who actually search the scripture is in verse 17, calling the wicked to repentance, not teaching them the false doctrine of verses 7-8.

(2 Nephi 28:3-17.)

3 For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I am the Lord's; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord's; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and not unto the Lord—

4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance.

5 And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men;

6 Behold, hearken ye unto my precept; if they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles; he hath done his work.

7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.

11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted.

12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.

14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

16 Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish.

17 But behold, if the inhabitants of the earth shall repent of their wickedness and abominations they shall not be destroyed, saith the Lord of Hosts.

This is what I believe, that we call everyone to repentance, in the end all will repent and everything will be cool.

And the proof that all will repent?

Our Lord said: "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins" (Isaiah 43:25).
 
 
Boyd K. Packer, The formula is stated in forty words: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins-behold, he will confess them and forsake them." (D&C 58:42-43.) I know of no more beautiful words in all of revelation than these. "The same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (Things of the Soul, page115.)

Neil A Maxwell, Some are so proud they never learn of obedience and spiritual submissiveness. They will have very arthritic knees on the day when every knee shall bend. There will be no gallery then to play to; all will be participants! (Ensign, May 1987, p. 70.)

President Kimball, May I repeat, the time will come when there will be a surrender of every person who has ever lived on this earth, who is now living, or who ever will live on this earth; and it will be an unforced surrender, an unconditional surrender. When will it be for you? Today? In twenty years? Two hundred years? Two thousand or a million? When? Again, to you, --- I say, it is not if you will capitulate to the great truth; it is when, for I know that you cannot indefinitely resist the power and pressure of truth. Why not now? Much time has been lost. The years ahead can be far more glorious for you than any years in the past. (Spencer W. Kimball. Sept Ensign, 1978. Messages of the First Presidency)

Boyd K. Packer, Nowhere is the generosity and kindness and mercy of God more manifest than in repentance. Do you understand the consummate cleansing power of the atonement made by the Son of God, our Savior, our Redeemer, who said, "I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent"? (D&C 19:16.) I know of no sin connected with transgression of the moral law which cannot be forgiven, assuming, of course, full and complete repentance. I do not exempt abortion.. (Things of the Soul)

The prophet Nephi; (17) Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. (2 Nephi 31:17.)

Our Lord; (16) And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

As I have said before, on this thread, it is my opinion that "my" Heavenly Father is perfect, he has a perfect Plan of Salvation, MY Heavenly Father cannot fail, he wants (quoted several times in conference) "all" his children to be returned to him; All that my "my" Father in Heaven wants, he gets! He's one powerful God!

Bob

[bobhenstra]

Of all the quotes OI pulls out, the one by McConkie, which "I" fully quoted "earlier" in the thread, that he obviously passed over will all fit comfortably in the Celestial Kingdom and in it's three degrees of glory.

Telestial and terrestrial kingdoms that remain telestial or terrestrial forever is a teaching of the fathers doctrine, and is false!

All Telestial kingdoms are exactly like this earth, "all" going through the same process, from Telestial to Terrestrial finally to the Celestial "worlds without end, there'll never be an end to earths like this one, always the same process!

Bob!

[Original_Intent]

Bob, if you want to keep deluding yourself and misleading others, it is between you and the Lord. I haven't let your words go unchallenged, and each person can contemplate and be led by the spirit to the truth.

[shadow]

each person can contemplate and be led by the spirit to the truth.

When will it happen for you?

"Our missionaries are going forth to different Nations. The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing (What work?? To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man); persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God (and just what are the purposes of God?) shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done. " -Joseph Smith

I submit that the work is NOT done until every child of our Heavenly Parents return to them as taught in the Temple. We are taught that we cannot return to them unless we are in the Celestial Kingdom. A great work indeed!

[NoGreaterLove]

Shadow and Bobh.
I have quotes and teaching from the prophets that say you can not advance into the Celestial Kingdom from another kingdom. In fact they say this is false teaching and has been taught before in the church. I wonder why you guys are still teaching this doctrine, when it has been addressed specifically by our modern day prophets?

Ordinances are required for exaltation. Clearly, attaining eternal life is not a matter of goodness only. That is one of the two important elements, but one must practice righteousness and receive the ordinances. People who do not bring their lives into harmony with God's laws and who do not receive the necessary ordinances either in this life or (if that is impossible) in the next, have thus deprived themselves, and will remain separate and single in the eternities. There they will have no spouses, no children. (MF 245)

No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right. (MF 243-44)


(Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, edited by Edward L. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 50.)

There is no progression from kingdom to kingdom. And may I say that there are comparatively few people in all the world who understand that there will be a resurrection. The Lord has again revealed this in our day. He has impressed it upon us and has given us to understand that when the time comes for that resurrection, if we are worthy, that we will be quickened celestial bodies, and from then on, we will dwell in the celestial kingdom, the highest of all kingdoms. But he has taught us also that there are other places where we may go. If we don't want to go to the celestial kingdom, by being less careful and particular about keeping the commandments of God, we may go into the terrestrial kingdom, and if we are still more careless, we may find our way into the telestial kingdom, which is the least of the kingdoms of glory.

There are some people who have supposed that if we are quickened telestial bodies that eventually, throughout the ages of eternity, we will continue to progress until we will find our place in the celestial kingdom, but the scriptures and revelations of God have said that those who are quickened telestial bodies cannot come where God and Christ dwell, worlds without end.(Conference Reports, October 1945, p. 172.)


(George Albert Smith, The Teachings of George Albert Smith, edited by Robert McIntosh and Susan McIntosh [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996], 36.)

[NoGreaterLove]

(2 Nephi 28:8-10.)

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.

[Amore Vero]

Being deceived or fooled is not necessarily a sin or to be overcome etc. I see many more members of the church being fooled by politicians that by other forms of false doctrine.

While being deceived may or may not be a sin, D&C 76 does teach that those who are deceived will lose their exaltation.

Thus we must make sure we are awake & not deceived by false precepts, philosophies, programs or people, & try to awake others up around us.

For being deceived is a choice, a condition that we are usually responsible & accountable for, because we did not live worthy of the Holy Spirit as our guide to tell us the truth of all things &/or we did not pray about, ponder or study the scriptures enough to be able to discern truth from error & right from wrong, etc.

As far as 'IF' it's possible for the 'Elect' to be deceived, Joseph Smith said that it's 'impossible' for those who have 'perfect love' ( & thus their calling & election made sure) to be deceived.

Thus, if the Elect are those who have this 'perfect love' then 'no', Joseph Smith says that they cannot be deceived.

But if the 'Elect' are those who have entered into temple covenants & are striving to be righteous, then yes, definitely they can be & are being deceived, as we see happening all around us.

There are many scriptures that command us to 'beware of false prophets' today & warn us about being deceived.

So how does one tell the difference between a false prophet & a true prophet?

I believe we tell the difference by doing what Joseph Smith said, to compare their words, teachings & actions against what the scriptures say. If they ever contradict the scriptures, then he says, we can know they are false.

[JohnnyL]

“For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant“.

Could this scripture possibly be saying that it is not possible to deceive the very elect, but is using such a description of these false Christ's/Prophets to illustrate just how deceptive and compelling they would be? Otherwise why would "if possible" even be include in the sentence?

(Also see New Testament Matthew 24:24 "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect")

Just thought I'd bring that up since that statement is used as talking points at various meetings I've been to, some who say that the elect indeed shall be deceived, others who say, if it were possible, but it's not possible... thoughts?

Maybe it has to do with having the Spirit and listening to it, in the face of "all else" that just seems like a dream society, etc.

****

I’m thinking that it is very possible to deceive the elect. Being deceived or fooled is not necessarily a sin or to be overcome etc. I see many more members of the church being fooled by politicians that by other forms of false doctrine.

I think so, too. There are more ways to be deceived than "this man is Christ".

****
Are "the very elect" just church members?? Gosh, we know that doesn't cut it... Or general authorities? No, I see them being decieved every day... What about the Twelve, and the First Presidency? Hmmm...

****

I read the above scripture as a warning to be very careful and examine carefully any beliefs that you may be clinging to that have not been confirmed by the spirit.

Question EVERYTHING.

****

I thought to myself how many of my ward members, good, honest, obedient folks. Those whom I would consider to be among the elect, are completely deceived and clueless when it comes to the workings of the secret combinations in our land and the world.

Good, honest, obedient is not equal to naive! I know you know that, and most here, but I think the connection is definitely there in most members' minds.

****

People are listening. They are learning, but they have to integrate that knowledge. They will wake up. But each individual has to wake up for themselves. This process takes time and study. Those that have become "awake" must be meekly patient in their efforts to wake up others so that they can then avoid being deceived.

True. This happens with all truth, not just the "missionary" part. I remember reading a study where it takes seven years to really "wake up".

****

[Amore Vero]

Question EVERYTHING.

So true.

[JohnnyL]

Of all the quotes OI pulls out, the one by McConkie, which "I" fully quoted "earlier" in the thread, that he obviously passed over will all fit comfortably in the Celestial Kingdom and in it's three degrees of glory.

Telestial and terrestrial kingdoms that remain telestial or terrestrial forever is a teaching of the fathers doctrine, and is false!

All Telestial kingdoms are exactly like this earth, "all" going through the same process, "worlds without end!"

My last word on this thread?

Bob!

I disagree with you and OI--I like the middle here.
Of course there's much more to understand about these things, and we might.

[friendsofthe]

I haven’t been back to this thread in some time. Now I see that there have been quite a few comments over that time period. I want to clarify further how I see those who are good, faithful member but who have not as yet awakened. As I said before, I don’t pass judgment upon or condemn them in any way. I believe that if they are faithful tithe payers and worthy temple recommend holders etc. Doing their best to build the kingdom, keep the commandments and so forth. I don’t believe that having the political wool pulled over their eyes is the kind of deception that will cause them to loose blessings. This is entirely different from being deceived and bound down by the chains of riotous living, gorse error and sin.

I know folks who are in some pretty high positions , bishops etc. who don’t know the truth about 911, the fed, or the extent of how powerful or organized the secret combinations are. Are they deceived? Yes. Are they under condemnation and on the edge of loosing their exaltation? I say without reservation, NO! If they make and keep their covenants their eternal welfare is secure.

Being awakened is not the golden key to exaltation. Being awakened does not make us any better that these folks I refer to above. Quite often I see what appears to be an attitude superiority expressed by some on this forum. They seem to think that being awakened makes them special and the only ones fit for exaltation. To those who have this attitude I ask, where is your charity? I’d rather be ignorant of the secret combinations and full charity than know all there was about secret combinations and feel smug in that knowledge.

These good folks are following the brethren. They may not be speaking out about 911, ending the fed and bringing the troops home but then, neither are the brethren! How can they be following the brethren, doing what the brethren are doing and be in jeopardy of loosing their blessings? JMHO

[gruden2.0]

Good, honest, obedient is not equal to naive! I know you know that, and most here, but I think the connection is definitely there in most members' minds.

There's always been that saying in the church that when the Brethren have made a decision, all the thinking is done. We should never - ever - outsource our thinking to someone else. To do so is to abdicate one's free agency. We will never gain exaltation by letting someone else think for us. We need to learn to be wise agents. The Elect do not borrow light from others, they get light from the source and figure out what it means for them. That's why they are not deceived.

[Lady Believer]

Good, honest, obedient is not equal to naive! I know you know that, and most here, but I think the connection is definitely there in most members' minds.

There's always been that saying in the church that when the Brethren have made a decision, all the thinking is done. We should never - ever - outsource our thinking to someone else. To do so is to abdicate one's free agency. We will never gain exaltation by letting someone else think for us. We need to learn to be wise agents. The Elect do not borrow light from others, they get light from the source and figure out what it means for them. That's why they are not deceived.

Ah yes. Some sanity I can believe in.

[Amore Vero]

There's always been that saying in the church that when the Brethren have made a decision, all the thinking is done. We should never - ever - outsource our thinking to someone else. To do so is to abdicate one's free agency. We will never gain exaltation by letting someone else think for us. We need to learn to be wise agents. The Elect do not borrow light from others, they get light from the source and figure out what it means for them. That's why they are not deceived.

I totally agree. Great post.

[Amore Vero]

I don’t believe that having the political wool pulled over their eyes is the kind of deception that will cause them to loose blessings. This is entirely different from being deceived and bound down by the chains of riotous living, gorse error and sin.

Joseph Smith said that those who possess 'true charity' cannot be deceived & thus they earn Exaltation. That would mean especially politically, for they have proven they have the Holy Spirit as their guide to be able to 'discern correctly' & thus are trustworthy to not support evil in any area of their lives.

[sbsion]

..only IF it were possible and, all intelligence are forever, WE ARE as God IS, there is NO advancement between ANY kingdom, experience is ONLY for conviction of what we ARE discover yourself and be Happy :ymhug:

[gruden2.0]

While doing some study of Matt 24 I came across this quote by JS:

John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood who should preach the everlasting gospel to all nations, - God had an angel, a special messenger, ordained & prepared for that purpose in the last days - Woe! Woe! be to that man, or set of men, who life up their hands against God and his Witness in these last days. - for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones - my enemies say that I have been a true prophet - & I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet; when a man goes about prophesying and commands men to obey his teachings, he must either be a true or false prophet; false prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones - the doctrine of eternal judgements belong to the 1st. Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith pp 366-367. Emphasis added.

Note the 'almost' that appears twice.

Who can speak so close to the truth to lead away many members and come oh so close to the elect? Would that be a church leader or someone else...? Words to ponder upon.

[firend]

While doing some study of Matt 24 I came across this quote by JS:

John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood who should preach the everlasting gospel to all nations, - God had an angel, a special messenger, ordained & prepared for that purpose in the last days - Woe! Woe! be to that man, or set of men, who life up their hands against God and his Witness in these last days. - for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones - my enemies say that I have been a true prophet - & I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet; when a man goes about prophesying and commands men to obey his teachings, he must either be a true or false prophet; false prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones - the doctrine of eternal judgements belong to the 1st. Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith pp 366-367. Emphasis added.

Note the 'almost' that appears twice.

Who can speak so close to the truth to lead away many members and come oh so close to the elect? Would that be a church leader or someone else...? Words to ponder upon.

That is interesting isn't it. Very good observation.

[NoGreaterLove]

While doing some study of Matt 24 I came across this quote by JS:

John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood who should preach the everlasting gospel to all nations, - God had an angel, a special messenger, ordained & prepared for that purpose in the last days - Woe! Woe! be to that man, or set of men, who life up their hands against God and his Witness in these last days. - for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones - my enemies say that I have been a true prophet - & I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet; when a man goes about prophesying and commands men to obey his teachings, he must either be a true or false prophet; false prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones - the doctrine of eternal judgements belong to the 1st. Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith pp 366-367. Emphasis added.

Note the 'almost' that appears twice.

Who can speak so close to the truth to lead away many members and come oh so close to the elect? Would that be a church leader or someone else...? Words to ponder upon.

That is interesting isn't it. Very good observation.

Very good quote! Definitely worth paying close attention to. Joseph Smith seems to be giving more depth to Christ's admonition about false Christs and false prophets."So very near the truth."

[Jason]

each person can contemplate and be led by the spirit to the truth.

When will it happen for you?

"Our missionaries are going forth to different Nations. The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing (What work?? To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man); persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God (and just what are the purposes of God?) shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done. " -Joseph Smith

I submit that the work is NOT done until every child of our Heavenly Parents return to them as taught in the Temple. We are taught that we cannot return to them unless we are in the Celestial Kingdom. A great work indeed!

Number one, Satan, or Lucifer, or the father of lies—call him what you will—is real, the very personification of evil. His motives are in every case malicious, and he convulses at the appearance of redeeming light, at the very thought of truth. Number two, he is eternally opposed to the love of God, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and the work of peace and salvation. He will fight against these whenever and wherever he can. He knows he will be defeated and cast out in the end, but he is determined to take down with him as many others as he possibly can.

http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/ ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BeNotDeceived]

“For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant“.

Could this scripture possibly be saying that it is not possible to deceive the very elect, but is using such a description of these false Christ's/Prophets to illustrate just how deceptive and compelling they would be? Otherwise why would "if possible" even be include in the sentence?

(Also see New Testament Matthew 24:24 "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect")

Just thought I'd bring that up since that statement is used as talking points at various meetings I've been to, some who say that the elect indeed shall be deceived, others who say, if it were possible, but it's not possible... thoughts?

Those that are the elect. won’t be deceived, but is that knowledge only knowable after the fact?

[EvanLM]

we "elect" will rely on the HG and the words of the prophets from any scripture that God has given us. It is silly for us to speculate on current revelation but it is possible for our prophets to get current revelation. But, even they have warned against anything that doesn't square with scriptures.

We all know what this time is all about. However, our current prophets are NOT the ones to do the end time work. They are certainly confused as we see temples closed, temples open, missionaries sent, missionaries home, maybe, masks on masks off, home study, church study, etc.

The prophets that will teach us how to build Zion and literally gather Israel are other men- not these current men. So the Lord will reveal to these new prophets all that needs to be done to complete the work.

The "elect" will do the work under direction of priesthood and these prophets appointed in the very, very, very near future. The "elect" will recognize these prophets because of scripture knowledge and HG. They are the 5 virgins called to the supper from the world. The "elect" do not need special instructions from current prophets since their callings are outlined in scripture and patriarchal blessings.

This warning of deceit is very important in our time and repetition is a necessary reminder that is needed. Those remnant who are not the "elect" will be dead. A lot of people will be dead-most of the whole earth will be dead including our prophets now.

If you want to be elect, then ask God. John did it, the three nephites did it, Alma did it, Moses did it- they all asked and were translated so they could be elect and continue to bring souls to Christ on this earth. It won't be fun since you will have to walk through all of the tribulations, but many people on this earth have received this privilege including the city of Enoch which consisted of men, WOMEN, and CHILDREN