Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

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What do you believe

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true and the 1st presidency and 12 are prophets
58
37%
The church is true, but the prophet doesn't know what he's doing or talking about a lot of the time
23
15%
The church was true but not anymore
24
15%
The church was never true
17
11%
Other (explain below)
35
22%
 
Total votes: 157
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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Cruiserdude wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:25 pm
Claymore wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:48 am
OCDMOM wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:39 am The Gospel is true.
That is a very loaded statement btw. ;)
The correct interpretation of the gospel is what many of us are trying to figure out.
One of the most important revelations Joseph received, in my opinion, the church doesn't talk about. It was after he received a revelation which lead them (Joseph and his early supporters) to do something that ended in failure. They were confused about their failure and inquired of the Lord as to why they failed. The Lord told Joseph, "some revelations are of God, some are of man, and some are of the devil". That means Joseph received revelation that was not from God! I don't believe it was the first time nor was it the last. The idea that a prophet may receive a revelation not from God doesn't jive with the church's narrative nor the beliefs of most LDS, but it is true.

My point is that the gospel taught to us by Jesus in the Book of Mormon is true, but some of what the church added may not be. Most LDS don't want to hear this nor will they believe it.

Claymore
Well put hermano.
Plenty of times in the past where the leaders have been allowed to make errors. Some of the errors have been more serious than others. But they are allowed to be wrong. We don't hear about those times very much, which is a shame because we could learn a lot from them
Nosotros no podemos, hermano. 👇
I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting; it destroys. I could tell most of the secretaries in the church office building that they are ugly and fat. That would be the truth, but it would hurt and destroy them. Historians should tell only that part of the truth that is inspiring and uplifting.

-Boyd K. Packer
We aren't supposed to talk about any of that 🤫🤐

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Claymore wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:48 am
OCDMOM wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:39 am The Gospel is true.
That is a very loaded statement btw. ;)
The correct interpretation of the gospel is what many of us are trying to figure out.
I don't think it is a loaded statement. Jesus was very clear about His gospel in 3 Nephi. His gospel is very simple.

The early LDS church was eager to seek for and add more and more on top of what was laid out in the BoM and the Bible. I believe that is why the Lord condemned the church. They took the beauty and simplicity of the gospel taught in the BoM for granted and kept wanting more, so they got more. The Israelites of old did the same and so do we. It's human nature. I believe we are familiar with the term "looking beyond the mark".

One of the most important revelations Joseph received, in my opinion, the church doesn't talk about. It was after he received a revelation which lead them (Joseph and his early supporters) to do something that ended in failure. They were confused about their failure and inquired of the Lord as to why they failed. The Lord told Joseph, "some revelations are of God, some are of man, and some are of the devil". That means Joseph received revelation that was not from God! I don't believe it was the first time nor was it the last. The idea that a prophet may receive a revelation not from God doesn't jive with the church's narrative nor the beliefs of most LDS, but it is true.

My point is that the gospel taught to us by Jesus in the Book of Mormon is true, but some of what the church added may not be. Most LDS don't want to hear this nor will they believe it.

Claymore
There are beautifully simple doctrines, and there are eternally deep doctrines. So yes, I agree. The church leaders like to make their own interpretation of things and then expect the membership to “sustain” them. For example, we are taught the simple doctrine of love your neighbor, yet Elder Renlund interprets the wearing of a mask as a sign of that commandment, whereas many of us see it as evil.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Cruiserdude »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:31 pm
Cruiserdude wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:25 pm
Claymore wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:14 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:48 am
That is a very loaded statement btw. ;)
The correct interpretation of the gospel is what many of us are trying to figure out.
One of the most important revelations Joseph received, in my opinion, the church doesn't talk about. It was after he received a revelation which lead them (Joseph and his early supporters) to do something that ended in failure. They were confused about their failure and inquired of the Lord as to why they failed. The Lord told Joseph, "some revelations are of God, some are of man, and some are of the devil". That means Joseph received revelation that was not from God! I don't believe it was the first time nor was it the last. The idea that a prophet may receive a revelation not from God doesn't jive with the church's narrative nor the beliefs of most LDS, but it is true.

My point is that the gospel taught to us by Jesus in the Book of Mormon is true, but some of what the church added may not be. Most LDS don't want to hear this nor will they believe it.

Claymore
Well put hermano.
Plenty of times in the past where the leaders have been allowed to make errors. Some of the errors have been more serious than others. But they are allowed to be wrong. We don't hear about those times very much, which is a shame because we could learn a lot from them
Nosotros no podemos, hermano. 👇
I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting; it destroys. I could tell most of the secretaries in the church office building that they are ugly and fat. That would be the truth, but it would hurt and destroy them. Historians should tell only that part of the truth that is inspiring and uplifting.

-Boyd K. Packer
We aren't supposed to talk about any of that 🤫🤐
Lol, (I really did lol'ed😂)

I mean no disrespect to him but statements/stuff like that have ZERO influence on my actions, thoughts, and beliefs. I sincerely don't mean any disrespect with that, I just feel there's no applicability for me .... Packer's part of running the org or Corp in Babylon, and that's fine. That's his job not mine. They're always thinking of legal stuff instead of the moral stuff. I try to stay out of it. It's all that lawyer/legal speak and trickery with words intended to deceive or hide things. The laws of this fallen world are not my cuppa...
That sounds bad, but I don't mean that in a bad way at all. Not sure how else to say it or word it lol. Maybe I'd mark it with a big 'N/A' (not applicable to me 😂😇)
But I'm good with it, I don't feel a need to declare it to the world, only thing I'm interested in is helping more find the peace and love of our Savior in these times.
He will guide us if we desire it.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Silver Pie »

TruthSeeker77 wrote: May 9th, 2021, 6:42 am I stopped saying "the Church is true" a long time ago. Instead I say, "The doctrine is true/full."

The church is the body of Christ made up of its members and we are hardly "true." HOWEVER the doctrine IS true and full and will not fail us.
Exactly! The Doctrine was true.


Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:16 am We would hope that "true" doctrine is taught these days, but in many regards, we are not even being taught true doctrine from the pulpits of the church. In fact, in many regards, there are flat out falsehoods and deceptions being taught. The church makes it difficult to understand the difference between policy and doctrine, and they flip flop back and forth all the time. (e.g. adam/God, Polygamy, Black/priesthood, Naming of God's church, LGBTQ baptisms, etc.)
Like TruthSeeker, when I think of the doctrine being true, I'm not talking about the mess everything is in now, nor the direction the religion is heading. I'm talking about the real doctrine as stated in scriptures, and what Joseph kept trying to teach the people.


BeNotDeceived wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:37 am FWIW votes can be changed and I changed mine from 1 to 2, making it 53% for option #1.
Yes. Mine was changed from 3 to 4 when I realized Churches can't be "true" but the teachings in them can be true or false.

Lynn
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Lynn »

Have you not wondered why all of the confusion as to who was to lead tjhe Resoration after Joseph was killed ? It is because he appointed many to carry on in his stead. Each group had a mission to achieve, whether they understood that or even realized it. The idea was to come back in time, to the crossroad of gathering. However, there are many others in various groups, or individually out there, awaiting the time when they too shall be summoned. Too many seek to find the differences between each other's views. Look for the common links & move forward, instead of stopping & wasting the fuel in the lamps. Every time you stop for a negative, you have not only wasted fuel, but precious time. The Endowment you seek, can never be bestowed upon those who seek to use it to judge others. None are appointed as judge yet. If the Master is the greatest judge, it was because he sought in individuals to judge not, but to encourage them to repentence & moving forward. In fact, he & John the Baptist preached constantly for people to repent, not to judge.

The Zion of old was made up of a diverse, yet unified people. The one thing they understood, was that they were to abide by the Law of ONE, of equity & right. They truly saw each others as equal. They came to the realization, as a unit, together, they could accomplish anything & everything.

Aprhys
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Aprhys »

I have it from an insider that the church is going to change the Articles of Faith. 1-We believe in God but we believe even more in the leadership of the church.
2- We believe that men must be punished for questioning the directives of the Holy 15. Except gays. Gays can't sin anymore
3-We believe the Atonement to be irrelevant and that all mankind can only be saved if the fork over enough cash.
4-We believe that the principles and ordinances of the gospel are absolute and complete adoration of old men who really haven't done much for humanity. Tithing, fast offerings and donations. That's about it.
5- We believe that men will only be called if they have adequate social standing, doctorates, PhDs, MBAs or income levels...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Lynn wrote: May 9th, 2021, 5:55 pm Have you not wondered why all of the confusion as to who was to lead tjhe Resoration after Joseph was killed ? It is because he appointed many to carry on in his stead. Each group had a mission to achieve, whether they understood that or even realized it. The idea was to come back in time, to the crossroad of gathering. However, there are many others in various groups, or individually out there, awaiting the time when they too shall be summoned. Too many seek to find the differences between each other's views. Look for the common links & move forward, instead of stopping & wasting the fuel in the lamps. Every time you stop for a negative, you have not only wasted fuel, but precious time. The Endowment you seek, can never be bestowed upon those who seek to use it to judge others. None are appointed as judge yet. If the Master is the greatest judge, it was because he sought in individuals to judge not, but to encourage them to repentence & moving forward. In fact, he & John the Baptist preached constantly for people to repent, not to judge.

The Zion of old was made up of a diverse, yet unified people. The one thing they understood, was that they were to abide by the Law of ONE, of equity & right. They truly saw each others as equal. They came to the realization, as a unit, together, they could accomplish anything & everything.
It was because Joseph was going to ex several high ranking members and they conspired against him. That’s a very unpopular opinion in most LDS circles though.

simpleton
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by simpleton »

Lynn wrote: May 9th, 2021, 5:55 pm Have you not wondered why all of the confusion as to who was to lead tjhe Resoration after Joseph was killed ? It is because he appointed many to carry on in his stead. Each group had a mission to achieve, whether they understood that or even realized it. The idea was to come back in time, to the crossroad of gathering. However, there are many others in various groups, or individually out there, awaiting the time when they too shall be summoned. Too many seek to find the differences between each other's views. Look for the common links & move forward, instead of stopping & wasting the fuel in the lamps. Every time you stop for a negative, you have not only wasted fuel, but precious time. The Endowment you seek, can never be bestowed upon those who seek to use it to judge others. None are appointed as judge yet. If the Master is the greatest judge, it was because he sought in individuals to judge not, but to encourage them to repentence & moving forward. In fact, he & John the Baptist preached constantly for people to repent, not to judge.

The Zion of old was made up of a diverse, yet unified people. The one thing they understood, was that they were to abide by the Law of ONE, of equity & right. They truly saw each others as equal. They came to the realization, as a unit, together, they could accomplish anything & everything.
This starts out on the "different groups" theme, then it ends on the "Law of One". It is a theory, the first part, but completely false.
It is interesting though, the various opinions and ideas as to why that we have today.
But to me, the confusion did not last long at all, BY was the man chosen of God. All of the rest were fakers. But then of course those that despise BY, get these other ideas.

larsenb
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by larsenb »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: May 9th, 2021, 3:55 pm
larsenb wrote: May 9th, 2021, 12:09 pm How about an option that says something like: The Church was established by God, and He still has his eye and hand on it.
🤔 by hand on it, you mean He is leading it today?
To some degree. He is certainly monitoring it and has plans how to deal w/ it in terms of its going off track to one degree or another.

My position is simple. God established the Church. It seems illogical He would entirely abandon it. Did you ever read the experience I've posted twice now about Louis Mirken, a Jewish man, who experienced Le Grande Richards fulfilling the OT definition of a prophet for him? He converted as a result.

I'm really surprised that these postings on Mirken got zero comment or even thumbs up from anybody.

My contention is that we simply don't necessarily hear all the experiences the Brethren may have in being guided by the Spirit, etc., in doing their ecclesiastical duties, or interacting w/various people/members similarly to what LeGrande Richards did.

To me, this is not necessarily incompatible with them not being advised or guided in other issues, which may be because they haven't brought these issues before the Lord, or because we, the people have generally neglected to do our admonished duty in the past. Nor is it incompatible with our your experiences w/your SP or Bishop . . . which was a fascinating narration . . . . btw.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Subcomandante »

I voted other.

Someone that says the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and that there is one prophet and twelve apostles, also implies by the statement that all others are false.

I am more of the apporach that there are degrees of truth to be found in many faith systems. And I have reservations about lots of things that are being done in the Church today. I still believe that though the Church is authorized to perform the saving ordinances, and has the authority of the Priesthood, and has the Scriptures, we still have not truly understood the Scriptures, the ordinances, even the Priesthood, or even the calling of prophet, and that is causing us harm. If we truly understood these things, we would be a very powerful force for good. I feel like there are some that do understand it, but in general, many people are too lazy to find out for themselves these powers, some out of fear, some out of lack of effort.

My take is the following:

I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the authorized Church in the land, however, it is not the purveyor of all of the truth. And things are being done now that do not square with what should be an understanding of the truth.

Lynn
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Lynn »

I believe everyone has the right to believe as they wish, as long as it does not harm others. I bring up the analogy of survival. You do not place all of your eggs in one basket, you distribute them as you see fit. In order that most will not get destroyed. I remember one friend who gave an interesting story which is very similar. All of one section of his cattle gathered under one large tree, seeking protection from a storm. However, when lightning hit the tree, it killed all of that group of his cattle.

So, as I stated, I stand by what I stated, the Saints were scattered for a wise purpose. Herein, is akin to the story of the Lord & His Servant of the Vineyard noted in the D&C & BoM. There was a lot of shuffling around. I use the reference of Law of ONE for certain reasons. My term for Deity is the ONE, the Totality or Infinite Creator. My use of the Law of ONE, is akin to the law of equity & right, justice & love, in a sense as Enoch & Zion were of- One heart & One mind, yet they were diverse.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Silver Pie wrote: May 9th, 2021, 5:30 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: May 9th, 2021, 7:37 am FWIW votes can be changed and I changed mine from 1 to 2, making it 53% for option #1.
Yes. Mine was changed from 3 to 4 when I realized Churches can't be "true" but the teachings in them can be true or false.
Yesterday it dawned on me that me math was wrong incorrectly identifying a number 57 anomaly.

53% +57% totals 110%. :?

But just now I switched me vote back to choice #1 to make it be 43% and now the remainder truly is 57%. I believe in number fifty seven anomalies, so maybe my current choice is correct.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Silver Pie »

BeNotDeceived wrote: May 10th, 2021, 10:01 pmBut just now I switched me vote back to choice #1 to make it be 43% and now the remainder truly is 57%. I believe in number fifty seven anomalies, so maybe my current choice is correct.
Gotta love ya, man. :D

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Michael Sherwin »

I still read here but seldom post. Since the Spirit has gone silent for now I make too many mistakes without the Spirit guiding me. However, I remember some precepts it taught me very well. There are two phases to salvation. A mechanical (material) phase and a power (spiritual) phase. The material phase which is purely mechanical in nature is represented by the baptism by water. The spiritual phase is the power of God phase that is represented by the baptism of fire. That is why Paul writes in 1 Cor 15:46, "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual". The whole surrounding context is salvation. Paul is telling us that the order of salvation is first natural then spiritual. The natural in a nutshell is this, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be" (the body that shall be is the spiritual the second phase) "but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain" (this is our responsibility in this life to produce grain and not to be a tare that produces no grain) "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body" (once again this is the spiritual power of God phase).

In this phase that we are in now living right and being good soil for the seed and keeping our seed watered is the most important. And we are given enough information on how to do that. It does not require any more truth than knowing right from wrong and choosing right. Any more truth than that will be a stumbling block. What if you knew the absolute truth of everything AND you did not keep that truth? You cannot be held responsible for what you do not know. You cannot commit the unpardonable sin if you do not know your doing it. That is why the greater truth is not available to us now. Not from the Church (any church) or any priest or (so called) prophet.

Now in Matthew it says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be", and that is very literal. The earth is going to undergo a change. Before the flood God strived with man. After the change God will once again strive with man. In Genesis 48:15&16 it says, "And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, the Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth". There is no end to arguing the semantics surrounding The Angel Of The LORD however it is so clear, "So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered". God visits earth as The Angel Of The LORD. That same Angel is coming back to the changed earth, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people". The very meaning of gospel is truth. But now things are very different. After we receive this truth we are responsible. And God will strive with us to help us keep his truth. The people that refuse to keep his truth commit the unpardonable sin, "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation". Those people have committed the unpardonable sin because they were full of blasphemy against the gospel delivered to them by the Holy Spirit.

However, the people that keep God's truth, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them". Our works do not follow us now because we do not have the truth. In other words right now our works do not condemn us. And those that keep God's commandments after the gospel is delivered their works do follow them but they are good works. And those that reject God's gospel their works also follow them and they are condemned by them.

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nightlight
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by nightlight »

Michael Sherwin wrote: May 14th, 2021, 7:01 pm I still read here but seldom post. Since the Spirit has gone silent for now I make too many mistakes without the Spirit guiding me. However, I remember some precepts it taught me very well. There are two phases to salvation. A mechanical (material) phase and a power (spiritual) phase. The material phase which is purely mechanical in nature is represented by the baptism by water. The spiritual phase is the power of God phase that is represented by the baptism of fire. That is why Paul writes in 1 Cor 15:46, "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual". The whole surrounding context is salvation. Paul is telling us that the order of salvation is first natural then spiritual. The natural in a nutshell is this, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be" (the body that shall be is the spiritual the second phase) "but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain" (this is our responsibility in this life to produce grain and not to be a tare that produces no grain) "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body" (once again this is the spiritual power of God phase).

In this phase that we are in now living right and being good soil for the seed and keeping our seed watered is the most important. And we are given enough information on how to do that. It does not require any more truth than knowing right from wrong and choosing right. Any more truth than that will be a stumbling block. What if you knew the absolute truth of everything AND you did not keep that truth? You cannot be held responsible for what you do not know. You cannot commit the unpardonable sin if you do not know your doing it. That is why the greater truth is not available to us now. Not from the Church (any church) or any priest or (so called) prophet.

Now in Matthew it says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be", and that is very literal. The earth is going to undergo a change. Before the flood God strived with man. After the change God will once again strive with man. In Genesis 48:15&16 it says, "And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, the Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth". There is no end to arguing the semantics surrounding The Angel Of The LORD however it is so clear, "So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered". God visits earth as The Angel Of The LORD. That same Angel is coming back to the changed earth, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people". The very meaning of gospel is truth. But now things are very different. After we receive this truth we are responsible. And God will strive with us to help us keep his truth. The people that refuse to keep his truth commit the unpardonable sin, "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation". Those people have committed the unpardonable sin because they were full of blasphemy against the gospel delivered to them by the Holy Spirit.

However, the people that keep God's truth, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them". Our works do not follow us now because we do not have the truth. In other words right now our works do not condemn us. And those that keep God's commandments after the gospel is delivered their works do follow them but they are good works. And those that reject God's gospel their works also follow them and they are condemned by them.
Complete nonsense, mike.

You think your sinning means nothing because you haven't been "awaken" yet....

You think the baptism of fire is not possible yet.

You don't understand Christ. God already came , bro. All is present to be One with Him.

You are not because you will not.

Theoden76
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Theoden76 »

Alaris wrote: January 14th, 2019, 8:59 am I also voted for other. There is this tunnel vision mentality among our church that we are true and everyone else is false.
I left that POV a long time ago.

I once had a personal witness that God is aware of nonmembers and appreciates their devotion to truth as much as he appreciates those in the church who are devoted.

We are nothing special compared to the rest of His children.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Theoden76 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 10:55 pm
Alaris wrote: January 14th, 2019, 8:59 am I also voted for other. There is this tunnel vision mentality among our church that we are true and everyone else is false.
I left that POV a long time ago.

I once had a personal witness that God is aware of nonmembers and appreciates their devotion to truth as much as he appreciates those in the church who are devoted.

We are nothing special compared to the rest of His children.
I’ve actually found groups of people that discuss far richer spiritual experience than we ever do in the church. It’s as if we received all that Joseph taught and then kind of regressed. Our pride and arrogance has held us back from learning more.

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BeNotDeceived
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LDS church is true.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Silver Pie wrote: May 13th, 2021, 11:44 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: May 10th, 2021, 10:01 pmBut just now I switched me vote back to choice #1 to make it be 43% and now the remainder truly is 57%. I believe in number fifty seven anomalies, so maybe my current choice is correct.
Gotta love ya, man. :D

Pic, or it didn’t happen. :lol:

Image

Little ol’ me made it happen, by choosing what likely was da right choice.

God, indeed doth work in mysterious ways. :mrgreen:

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Michael Sherwin »

nightlight wrote: May 14th, 2021, 9:25 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: May 14th, 2021, 7:01 pm I still read here but seldom post. Since the Spirit has gone silent for now I make too many mistakes without the Spirit guiding me. However, I remember some precepts it taught me very well. There are two phases to salvation. A mechanical (material) phase and a power (spiritual) phase. The material phase which is purely mechanical in nature is represented by the baptism by water. The spiritual phase is the power of God phase that is represented by the baptism of fire. That is why Paul writes in 1 Cor 15:46, "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual". The whole surrounding context is salvation. Paul is telling us that the order of salvation is first natural then spiritual. The natural in a nutshell is this, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be" (the body that shall be is the spiritual the second phase) "but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain" (this is our responsibility in this life to produce grain and not to be a tare that produces no grain) "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body" (once again this is the spiritual power of God phase).

In this phase that we are in now living right and being good soil for the seed and keeping our seed watered is the most important. And we are given enough information on how to do that. It does not require any more truth than knowing right from wrong and choosing right. Any more truth than that will be a stumbling block. What if you knew the absolute truth of everything AND you did not keep that truth? You cannot be held responsible for what you do not know. You cannot commit the unpardonable sin if you do not know your doing it. That is why the greater truth is not available to us now. Not from the Church (any church) or any priest or (so called) prophet.

Now in Matthew it says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be", and that is very literal. The earth is going to undergo a change. Before the flood God strived with man. After the change God will once again strive with man. In Genesis 48:15&16 it says, "And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, the Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth". There is no end to arguing the semantics surrounding The Angel Of The LORD however it is so clear, "So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered". God visits earth as The Angel Of The LORD. That same Angel is coming back to the changed earth, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people". The very meaning of gospel is truth. But now things are very different. After we receive this truth we are responsible. And God will strive with us to help us keep his truth. The people that refuse to keep his truth commit the unpardonable sin, "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation". Those people have committed the unpardonable sin because they were full of blasphemy against the gospel delivered to them by the Holy Spirit.

However, the people that keep God's truth, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them". Our works do not follow us now because we do not have the truth. In other words right now our works do not condemn us. And those that keep God's commandments after the gospel is delivered their works do follow them but they are good works. And those that reject God's gospel their works also follow them and they are condemned by them.
Complete nonsense, mike.

You think your sinning means nothing because you haven't been "awaken" yet....

You think the baptism of fire is not possible yet.

You don't understand Christ. God already came , bro. All is present to be One with Him.

You are not because you will not.
First there was a 5.7 then a 6.5 so now all I'll do is give an opportunity to the Spirit to speak up with a 7.3 and fully take the hit if it does not and say I must have been deceived by a false spirit all this time.

Theoden76
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Theoden76 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 14th, 2021, 11:03 pm
Theoden76 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 10:55 pm
Alaris wrote: January 14th, 2019, 8:59 am I also voted for other. There is this tunnel vision mentality among our church that we are true and everyone else is false.
I left that POV a long time ago.

I once had a personal witness that God is aware of nonmembers and appreciates their devotion to truth as much as he appreciates those in the church who are devoted.

We are nothing special compared to the rest of His children.
I’ve actually found groups of people that discuss far richer spiritual experience than we ever do in the church. It’s as if we received all that Joseph taught and then kind of regressed. Our pride and arrogance has held us back from learning more.
What do you always hear about the sealed portions of the plates ?

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Original_Intent
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Original_Intent »

I chose "other" because: It's complicated.

Theoden76
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Theoden76 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: May 14th, 2021, 11:03 pm
Theoden76 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 10:55 pm
Alaris wrote: January 14th, 2019, 8:59 am I also voted for other. There is this tunnel vision mentality among our church that we are true and everyone else is false.
I left that POV a long time ago.

I once had a personal witness that God is aware of nonmembers and appreciates their devotion to truth as much as he appreciates those in the church who are devoted.

We are nothing special compared to the rest of His children.
I’ve actually found groups of people that discuss far richer spiritual experience than we ever do in the church. It’s as if we received all that Joseph taught and then kind of regressed. Our pride and arrogance has held us back from learning more.
So have I.....my family.

I always thought that was how it was supposed to be.

Prana
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by Prana »

I have found in my journey that any organization claiming to be the one true path is most definitely not.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Prana wrote: May 16th, 2021, 11:34 pm I have found in my journey that any organization claiming to be the one true path is most definitely not.
Does that include the proclamation of John the Baptist and the original 12 apostles?

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cab
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Re: Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

Post by cab »

The Lord called on the church in 1831 to BECOME the true and living church in D&C 1:30. He didn’t indicate it had become such, or that he was yet well pleased with it.

Joseph’s pleading in 1836 at the Kirtland temple dedication that the church may yet come forth out of the wilderness of darkness (D&C 109:73) seems to indicate the church hadn’t become “true and living” by that point either.

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