Is the Earth Flat? (Poll)

[Alexander]

Oops. Forgot to include one of the most important scriptures proving the earth isn't flat.

Helaman 12
14 Yea, if he say unto the earth—Thou shalt go back, that it lengthen out the day for many hours—it is done;
15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun.

Seriously, how is Helaman 12 evidence? How did Helaman know any better than Joseph Smith did, or you? Do we have record of him being shown the creation of the earth? “If there are faults they are the mistakes of men” comes to mind. BY would have totally thrown him a bone and shrugged it off as “he wrote according to his best knowledge and understanding.”

The person speaking here in Helaman 12 is Mormon. Mormon had a "sober mind" and was "quick to observe."

It's evidence because from the mouth of a prophet we hear, "surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."

SU'RELY, adverb Certainly; infallibly; undoubtedly.
1. Firmly; without danger of falling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surely

The earth surely/certainly/infallibly/undoubtedly orbits around the Sun, and therefore the flat-earth theory is false. You'll also see above in my mention of Alma 30:44 that it references "planets which move in their regular form."

PLAN'ET, noun
A celestial body which revolves about the sun or other center, or a body revolving about another planet as its center. The planets which revolve about the sun as their center, are called primary planets; those which revolve about other planets as their center, and with them revolve about the sun, are called secondary planets, satellites or moons. The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/planet



I trust the Book of Mormon. It is after all, the "most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The BoM contains things which are "plain and precious."

Plus, I think you'll find that what is said in the BoM lines up nicely with what is said from Abraham, the great patriarch and astronomer.

Abraham 1:31
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

And I'm not calling you a korihor. I'm simply making observations and similarities. Believe it or not I once questioned whether the earth was flat, and I chose to stick to the scriptures because I believed they were the truth.

Alma explained to Korihor that, "The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

The inverse is just as true. If all things denote there is a God, and the planets and rotations of those bodies witness of a supreme creator, then a supreme creator witnesses and denotes that there are planets with rotations, and space, and motion, and life.

Coming back to what Korihor said, let's apply the current situation to his statement.

"This thing you call a prophecy, which was handed down by the Nephites even to Mormon, they are foolish traditions of the fathers. How do you know of a surety the earth is a planetary object, and how does Mormon know of a surety? He can't know of things he does not see?"

[Allison]

Seriously, how is Helaman 12 evidence? How did Helaman know any better than Joseph Smith did, or you? Do we have record of him being shown the creation of the earth? “If there are faults they are the mistakes of men” comes to mind. BY would have totally thrown him a bone and shrugged it off as “he wrote according to his best knowledge and understanding.”

The person speaking here in Helaman 12 is Mormon. Mormon had a "sober mind" and was "quick to observe."

It's evidence because from the mouth of a prophet we hear, "surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."

SU'RELY, adverb Certainly; infallibly; undoubtedly.
1. Firmly; without danger of falling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surely

The earth surely/certainly/infallibly/undoubtedly orbits around the Sun, and therefore the flat-earth theory is false. You'll also see above in my mention of Alma 30:44 that it references "planets which move in their regular form."

PLAN'ET, noun
A celestial body which revolves about the sun or other center, or a body revolving about another planet as its center. The planets which revolve about the sun as their center, are called primary planets; those which revolve about other planets as their center, and with them revolve about the sun, are called secondary planets, satellites or moons. The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/planet



I trust the Book of Mormon. It is after all, the "most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The BoM contains things which are "plain and precious."

Plus, I think you'll find that what is said in the BoM lines up nicely with what is said from Abraham, the great patriarch and astronomer.

Abraham 1:31
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

In the heliocentric model the Sun is not stationary. It’s moving like crazy! So he was wrong, at least on that point.

Also, if the Earth, spinning at 1000 mph came to a screeching halt, can you imagine the devastation caused by tidal waves on every land mass? And the winds, since the atmosphere is allegedly moving right along with the earth at the same speed (while independently doing its own thing).

And then when it started up again, more unbelievable sloshing, devastation. Not only that, but the explanations given for why the Earth doesn’t fling everything off through centrifugal force on a day to day basis would have to become inoperative for that time. I can’t even remember how they excuse away the centrifugal force, but cancel that too. Just cancel the laws of nature for a day, ‘k?

[Jamescm]

I voted that the Earth is round. I know that we've been wrong about it for thousands of years, but it's honestly not important enough for me to entertain challenges to.

[braingrunt]

I think it's best to harmonize scripture if possible, and that scripture is completely harmonizable with relativity, whether it be Einsteinian or Newtonian.
Relative to our solar system, relative to where God placed us, the sun can very reasonably said to be stationary, or effectively stationary. Certainly stationary as pertains to (or relative to) the day-night cycle which was being discussed in Helaman.

Also, we believe that God is strong enough to do all he sets out his mind to do, whether that be stopping or restarting the earth without any negative effects. Our faith leads us to believe the scriptures wherever possible. Certainly a being who has ordered and organized the immensity of space can do this tiny thing. Or do you believe him too weak? If he's not too weak we should just take the scripture at it's word, that the earth "went back" and God did all that was needed to make it so.

I believe that the clearest cosmological statements in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great price are far more harmonious with heliocentric/globe model than with flat earth.

My faith would certainly lead me to reject Flat Earth sight unseen. If you go look at my very first posts on flat earth, you will see that the first things which came out of my mouth were scriptural. I'd say that God brought those scriptures to my remembrance. I certainly didn't have a prebuilt list fed to me be Mormon Globe gurus of scriptural evidences which told me what I should think.

[Pazooka]

Seriously, how is Helaman 12 evidence? How did Helaman know any better than Joseph Smith did, or you? Do we have record of him being shown the creation of the earth? “If there are faults they are the mistakes of men” comes to mind. BY would have totally thrown him a bone and shrugged it off as “he wrote according to his best knowledge and understanding.”

The person speaking here in Helaman 12 is Mormon. Mormon had a "sober mind" and was "quick to observe."

It's evidence because from the mouth of a prophet we hear, "surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."

SU'RELY, adverb Certainly; infallibly; undoubtedly.
1. Firmly; without danger of falling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surely

The earth surely/certainly/infallibly/undoubtedly orbits around the Sun, and therefore the flat-earth theory is false. You'll also see above in my mention of Alma 30:44 that it references "planets which move in their regular form."

PLAN'ET, noun
A celestial body which revolves about the sun or other center, or a body revolving about another planet as its center. The planets which revolve about the sun as their center, are called primary planets; those which revolve about other planets as their center, and with them revolve about the sun, are called secondary planets, satellites or moons. The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/planet



I trust the Book of Mormon. It is after all, the "most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The BoM contains things which are "plain and precious."

Plus, I think you'll find that what is said in the BoM lines up nicely with what is said from Abraham, the great patriarch and astronomer.

Abraham 1:31
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

And I'm not calling you a korihor. I'm simply making observations and similarities. Believe it or not I once questioned whether the earth was flat, and I chose to stick to the scriptures because I believed they were the truth.

Alma explained to Korihor that, "The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

The inverse is just as true. If all things denote there is a God, and the planets and rotations of those bodies witness of a supreme creator, then a supreme creator witnesses and denotes that there are planets with rotations, and space, and motion, and life.

Coming back to what Korihor said, let's apply the current situation to his statement.

"This thing you call a prophecy, which was handed down by the Nephites even to Mormon, they are foolish traditions of the fathers. How do you know of a surety the earth is a planetary object, and how does Mormon know of a surety? He can't know of things he does not see?"

Eyeroll. Mormon was a special witness of the gospel of Christ. He was not a special witness of the cosmos - but there were some amazing prophets who were. I’d rather refer to those who have seen for themselves, which is...actually...what a witness is.

[Silver Pie]

But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

You have a point. It is my understanding, however, that the first Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni had great visions of a great many things. I believe they, like Abraham, were shown the creation of the earth and the stars and planets, which means Mormon DID have first-hand knowledge.

I believe this because God is no respecter of persons and see no reason for him to withhold "the vision of all" from some of them.

Mormon seems to be speaking with knowledge. Yes, his words could have been tainted by Joseph Smith's understanding of the world, but I honestly don't believe it was.

[Silver Pie]

Also, if the Earth, spinning at 1000 mph came to a screeching halt, can you imagine the devastation caused by tidal waves on every land mass? And the winds, since the atmosphere is allegedly moving right along with the earth at the same speed (while independently doing its own thing).

And then when it started up again, more unbelievable sloshing, devastation. Not only that, but the explanations given for why the Earth doesn’t fling everything off through centrifugal force on a day to day basis would have to become inoperative for that time. I can’t even remember how they excuse away the centrifugal force, but cancel that too. Just cancel the laws of nature for a day, ‘k?

This stuff is actually addressed by Velikovsky (not coming to a screeching halt, but stopping nonetheless). He has fascinating theories using actual historical records of people who went through devastations caused by the earth slowing down and, if I'm remembering correctly, of it starting to spin in the opposite direction (the sun coming up from the direction it used to go down).

Fascinating stuff . . . and terrifying for those who managed to live through it.

[Pazooka]

But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

You have a point. It is my understanding, however, that the first Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni had great visions of a great many things. I believe they, like Abraham, were shown the creation of the earth and the stars and planets, which means Mormon DID have first-hand knowledge.

I believe this because God is no respecter of persons and see no reason for him to withhold "the vision of all" from some of them.

Mormon seems to be speaking with knowledge. Yes, his words could have been tainted by Joseph Smith's understanding of the world, but I honestly don't believe it was.

Just take that one individual - Mormon - and his words that are (apparently) informing us on cosmology...Did that person ever say they had a vision of the cosmos? He never did.

Shouldn’t we also take into account the words of Joshua 10:12-13
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

So who was right and who was wrong? Mormon or Joshua? Who was in a better position to know? Joshua was taught by Moses who actually was shown the earth and heaven and all that in them are. Where did Mormon get his information?

[braingrunt]

wherever the Bible and Book of Mormon explicitly disagree (cannot be reconciled) I stand with the Book of Mormon.
"The most correct book on earth"
vs
"As far as it is translated correctly, (with) many plain and precious parts taken away"

But it seems likely that Mormon knew he was absolutely contradicting Joshua which is why he called it out. He knew he was right, giving us better information than Joshua gave us. And he did not take the clarification lightly.

If the Book of Mormon appeared to contradict Flat Earth just once, perhaps you could write it off. But it does it at least twice and in more than one way. Perhaps this is just another way that the Book of Mormon was prepared for our day, to help people avoid another small but unrighteous corruption of true faith in Christ which is an insult to his name.

[Allison]

wherever the Bible and Book of Mormon explicitly disagree (cannot be reconciled) I stand with the Book of Mormon.
"The most correct book on earth"
vs
"As far as it is translated correctly, (with) many plain and precious parts taken away"

But it seems likely that Mormon knew he was absolutely contradicting Joshua which is why he called it out. He knew he was right, giving us better information than Joshua gave us. And he did not take the clarification lightly.

If the Book of Mormon appeared to contradict Flat Earth just once, perhaps you could write it off. But it does it at least twice and in more than one way. Perhaps this is just another way that the Book of Mormon was prepared for our day, to help people avoid another small but unrighteous corruption of true faith in Christ which is an insult to his name.

Yet, Mormon thought the Sun was stationary.

[braingrunt]

wherever the Bible and Book of Mormon explicitly disagree (cannot be reconciled) I stand with the Book of Mormon.
"The most correct book on earth"
vs
"As far as it is translated correctly, (with) many plain and precious parts taken away"

But it seems likely that Mormon knew he was absolutely contradicting Joshua which is why he called it out. He knew he was right, giving us better information than Joshua gave us. And he did not take the clarification lightly.

If the Book of Mormon appeared to contradict Flat Earth just once, perhaps you could write it off. But it does it at least twice and in more than one way. Perhaps this is just another way that the Book of Mormon was prepared for our day, to help people avoid another small but unrighteous corruption of true faith in Christ which is an insult to his name.

Yet, Mormon thought stationary.

see above, (viewtopic.php?p=1118799#p1118799)

and PS maybe the sun is stationary. I don't take the possibility very seriously but you certainly could. I think "the model" as I use the term represents basically everything scientists believe; (and I still defy you to find a problem with it) yet not all of it is stand or fall together. For example, I do remain highly agnostic about dark matter and energy. They fit some pieces of data very well but maybe there are other explanations for what is observed? But neither would I get autodogmatic and arrogant and say something like "Dark matter and energy is so stupid and there's no proof." Because that would be worshipping my own uneducated viewpoint.

Thinking you're wise because you are uneducated is even worse than thinking you are wise because of your learning.

[Allison]

wherever the Bible and Book of Mormon explicitly disagree (cannot be reconciled) I stand with the Book of Mormon.
"The most correct book on earth"
vs
"As far as it is translated correctly, (with) many plain and precious parts taken away"

But it seems likely that Mormon knew he was absolutely contradicting Joshua which is why he called it out. He knew he was right, giving us better information than Joshua gave us. And he did not take the clarification lightly.

If the Book of Mormon appeared to contradict Flat Earth just once, perhaps you could write it off. But it does it at least twice and in more than one way. Perhaps this is just another way that the Book of Mormon was prepared for our day, to help people avoid another small but unrighteous corruption of true faith in Christ which is an insult to his name.

Yet, Mormon thought stationary.

see above, (viewtopic.php?p=1118799#p1118799)

and PS maybe the sun is stationary. I don't take the possibility very seriously but you certainly could. I think "the model" as I use the term represents basically everything scientists believe; (and I still defy you to find a problem with it) yet not all of it is stand or fall together. For example, I do remain highly agnostic about dark matter and energy. They fit some pieces of data very well but maybe there are other explanations for what is observed? But neither would I get autodogmatic and arrogant and say something like "Dark matter and energy is so stupid and there's no proof." Because that would be worshipping my own uneducated viewpoint.

Thinking you're wise because you are uneducated is even worse than thinking you are wise because of your learning.

You’re talking to me? I think I am wise? Why, because I question the sacred dogmas of corrupt and sold-out academia?

It’s handy for you and Larsen to constantly try to make it about me, isn’t it? My guess is that OE is every bit as educated and accomplished as you, perhaps more so, and though I base my opinion almost entirely upon his ratification of various FE evidences, you go for the cheap shot over and over: “Me sciency; you doofus.” It makes you sound scared of staying on topic, frankly.

[Alexander]

The person speaking here in Helaman 12 is Mormon. Mormon had a "sober mind" and was "quick to observe."

It's evidence because from the mouth of a prophet we hear, "surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."

SU'RELY, adverb Certainly; infallibly; undoubtedly.
1. Firmly; without danger of falling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surely

The earth surely/certainly/infallibly/undoubtedly orbits around the Sun, and therefore the flat-earth theory is false. You'll also see above in my mention of Alma 30:44 that it references "planets which move in their regular form."

PLAN'ET, noun
A celestial body which revolves about the sun or other center, or a body revolving about another planet as its center. The planets which revolve about the sun as their center, are called primary planets; those which revolve about other planets as their center, and with them revolve about the sun, are called secondary planets, satellites or moons. The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/planet



I trust the Book of Mormon. It is after all, the "most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The BoM contains things which are "plain and precious."

Plus, I think you'll find that what is said in the BoM lines up nicely with what is said from Abraham, the great patriarch and astronomer.

Abraham 1:31
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

In the heliocentric model the Sun is not stationary. It’s moving like crazy! So he was wrong, at least on that point.

Also, if the Earth, spinning at 1000 mph came to a screeching halt, can you imagine the devastation caused by tidal waves on every land mass? And the winds, since the atmosphere is allegedly moving right along with the earth at the same speed (while independently doing its own thing).

And then when it started up again, more unbelievable sloshing, devastation. Not only that, but the explanations given for why the Earth doesn’t fling everything off through centrifugal force on a day to day basis would have to become inoperative for that time. I can’t even remember how they excuse away the centrifugal force, but cancel that too. Just cancel the laws of nature for a day, ‘k?

Man, we're really gonna deny the BoM, eh? We're in a worse state than I thought.


D&C 84
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

Helaman 12
15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun.

[Alexander]

The person speaking here in Helaman 12 is Mormon. Mormon had a "sober mind" and was "quick to observe."

It's evidence because from the mouth of a prophet we hear, "surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."

SU'RELY, adverb Certainly; infallibly; undoubtedly.
1. Firmly; without danger of falling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surely

The earth surely/certainly/infallibly/undoubtedly orbits around the Sun, and therefore the flat-earth theory is false. You'll also see above in my mention of Alma 30:44 that it references "planets which move in their regular form."

PLAN'ET, noun
A celestial body which revolves about the sun or other center, or a body revolving about another planet as its center. The planets which revolve about the sun as their center, are called primary planets; those which revolve about other planets as their center, and with them revolve about the sun, are called secondary planets, satellites or moons. The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/planet



I trust the Book of Mormon. It is after all, the "most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” The BoM contains things which are "plain and precious."

Plus, I think you'll find that what is said in the BoM lines up nicely with what is said from Abraham, the great patriarch and astronomer.

Abraham 1:31
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

And I'm not calling you a korihor. I'm simply making observations and similarities. Believe it or not I once questioned whether the earth was flat, and I chose to stick to the scriptures because I believed they were the truth.

Alma explained to Korihor that, "The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

The inverse is just as true. If all things denote there is a God, and the planets and rotations of those bodies witness of a supreme creator, then a supreme creator witnesses and denotes that there are planets with rotations, and space, and motion, and life.

Coming back to what Korihor said, let's apply the current situation to his statement.

"This thing you call a prophecy, which was handed down by the Nephites even to Mormon, they are foolish traditions of the fathers. How do you know of a surety the earth is a planetary object, and how does Mormon know of a surety? He can't know of things he does not see?"

Eyeroll. Mormon was a special witness of the gospel of Christ. He was not a special witness of the cosmos - but there were some amazing prophets who were. I’d rather refer to those who have seen for themselves, which is...actually...what a witness is.

I love how I point out simple and plain things in the Book of Mormon, and people grumble and roll their eyes.

If you won't believe Alma or Mormon, maybe you'll believe Moses?

Moses 1
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;



Many worlds have been created like this one. If there are other worlds like this one, there is space and universe. If there is space, there is depth to the cosmos and an ocean of intelligence. God’s creations are innumerable.

The earth cannot be flat.

[Taki]

Has Mr. OE actually looked at the Walter Bislin blog, the Rainy Lake experiment, and the MAGE2 experiment as detailed in my previous post?

Have you tried reading it yourself?

Here's some really basic demonstrations of the angles to the sun if the earth were flat (short, about 3 minutes each):

[Allison]

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

In the heliocentric model the Sun is not stationary. It’s moving like crazy! So he was wrong, at least on that point.

Also, if the Earth, spinning at 1000 mph came to a screeching halt, can you imagine the devastation caused by tidal waves on every land mass? And the winds, since the atmosphere is allegedly moving right along with the earth at the same speed (while independently doing its own thing).

And then when it started up again, more unbelievable sloshing, devastation. Not only that, but the explanations given for why the Earth doesn’t fling everything off through centrifugal force on a day to day basis would have to become inoperative for that time. I can’t even remember how they excuse away the centrifugal force, but cancel that too. Just cancel the laws of nature for a day, ‘k?

Man, we're really gonna deny the BoM, eh? We're in a worse state than I thought.


D&C 84
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

Helaman 12
15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun.

Do you then, believe that the Sun does not move? Or do you deny the Book of Mormon?

[Allison]

Yes, Mormon, thanks. That’s the 2nd time I’ve done that. But it doesn’t really matter. Mormon, no matter how sober of mind, did not have the first hand knowledge. This could just as easily have been false tradition. Not evidence.

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

And I'm not calling you a korihor. I'm simply making observations and similarities. Believe it or not I once questioned whether the earth was flat, and I chose to stick to the scriptures because I believed they were the truth.

Alma explained to Korihor that, "The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

The inverse is just as true. If all things denote there is a God, and the planets and rotations of those bodies witness of a supreme creator, then a supreme creator witnesses and denotes that there are planets with rotations, and space, and motion, and life.

Coming back to what Korihor said, let's apply the current situation to his statement.

"This thing you call a prophecy, which was handed down by the Nephites even to Mormon, they are foolish traditions of the fathers. How do you know of a surety the earth is a planetary object, and how does Mormon know of a surety? He can't know of things he does not see?"

Eyeroll. Mormon was a special witness of the gospel of Christ. He was not a special witness of the cosmos - but there were some amazing prophets who were. I’d rather refer to those who have seen for themselves, which is...actually...what a witness is.

I love how I point out simple and plain things in the Book of Mormon, and people grumble and roll their eyes.

If you won't believe Alma or Mormon, maybe you'll believe Moses?

Moses 1
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;



Many worlds have been created like this one. If there are other worlds like this one, there is space and universe. If there is space, there is depth to the cosmos and an ocean of intelligence. God’s creations are innumerable.

The earth cannot be flat.

I guess this goes to show how little you know of flat earth cosmology, because I don’t know of anyone who thinks other worlds are not possible, even many worlds. You make a lot of assumptions.

[Allison]

Has Mr. OE actually looked at the Walter Bislin blog, the Rainy Lake experiment, and the MAGE2 experiment as detailed in my previous post?

Have you tried reading it yourself?

Here's some really basic demonstrations of the angles to the sun if the earth were flat (short, about 3 minutes each):

Fascinating, if all of that is based on factual data, Not saying it isn’t, just that it would be important to verify.

I was hoping OE would have time this past weekend to look at what you posted, but he is working a lot of extra hours to finish a project. Hopefully he will finish it this week and get back to a less stressful routine. At first glance it appeared to be over my head, but I will try reading it if you want.

[Alexander]

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

In the heliocentric model the Sun is not stationary. It’s moving like crazy! So he was wrong, at least on that point.

Also, if the Earth, spinning at 1000 mph came to a screeching halt, can you imagine the devastation caused by tidal waves on every land mass? And the winds, since the atmosphere is allegedly moving right along with the earth at the same speed (while independently doing its own thing).

And then when it started up again, more unbelievable sloshing, devastation. Not only that, but the explanations given for why the Earth doesn’t fling everything off through centrifugal force on a day to day basis would have to become inoperative for that time. I can’t even remember how they excuse away the centrifugal force, but cancel that too. Just cancel the laws of nature for a day, ‘k?

Man, we're really gonna deny the BoM, eh? We're in a worse state than I thought.


D&C 84
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

Helaman 12
15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun.

Do you then, believe that the Sun does not move? Or do you deny the Book of Mormon?

The planets are opake bodies which receive their light from the sun. They are so named from their motion or revolution, in distinction from the fixed stars, and are distinguished from the latter by their not twinkling.

The sun is fixed in its position in the solar system, and it is the earth and planets which revolve around the body. Therefore it is the earth that moves. If the Lord were to hold back the earth, it would appear as if the sun stood still, which is exactly what is said in Helaman 12.

[braingrunt]

...
Thinking you're wise because you are uneducated is even worse than thinking you are wise because of your learning.

You’re talking to me? I think I am wise? Why, because I question the sacred dogmas of corrupt and sold-out academia?

It’s handy for you and Larsen to constantly try to make it about me, isn’t it? My guess is that OE is every bit as educated and accomplished as you, perhaps more so, and though I base my opinion almost entirely upon his ratification of various FE evidences, you go for the cheap shot over and over: “Me sciency; you doofus.” It makes you sound scared of staying on topic, frankly.

I'm talking to globe deniers in general. My impression is that many of them think they are wise. It's up to me to be careful not to do as they do.
And it's up to you to decide if the shoe fits you or OE.

Yes I attack. Yes I have no interest in staying on topic. But why? Is it because I'm scared?
or have I been honest and transparent with you even in my rudeness? --you have no idea what it would mean to you to be "shown the curve, no excuses" AND you reject any and all evidence, AND when your side comes up with objections to the globe you have a very poor track record of thinking seriously about what you may have done wrong.
I'm sure you want me to be scared, I guess this is just another thing you'll have to decide for yourself and yet another thing which ultimately doesn't matter because you are already in a place I can't reach.

And I think you need to seriously consider the possibility that OE is mentally ill, and needs help.
Whatever his accomplishments, his understanding of cosmology is not a combination of good information, good intelligence, and rationality.

As to whether I believe the sun is fixed, since you don't understand me, I will refer you to what Alexander says above, it covers my belief and is reconcilable with the Book of Mormon statement.

[Alexander]

Interesting. Korihor said something similar.

"Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see."

And I'm not calling you a korihor. I'm simply making observations and similarities. Believe it or not I once questioned whether the earth was flat, and I chose to stick to the scriptures because I believed they were the truth.

Alma explained to Korihor that, "The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

The inverse is just as true. If all things denote there is a God, and the planets and rotations of those bodies witness of a supreme creator, then a supreme creator witnesses and denotes that there are planets with rotations, and space, and motion, and life.

Coming back to what Korihor said, let's apply the current situation to his statement.

"This thing you call a prophecy, which was handed down by the Nephites even to Mormon, they are foolish traditions of the fathers. How do you know of a surety the earth is a planetary object, and how does Mormon know of a surety? He can't know of things he does not see?"

Eyeroll. Mormon was a special witness of the gospel of Christ. He was not a special witness of the cosmos - but there were some amazing prophets who were. I’d rather refer to those who have seen for themselves, which is...actually...what a witness is.

I love how I point out simple and plain things in the Book of Mormon, and people grumble and roll their eyes.

If you won't believe Alma or Mormon, maybe you'll believe Moses?

Moses 1
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;



Many worlds have been created like this one. If there are other worlds like this one, there is space and universe. If there is space, there is depth to the cosmos and an ocean of intelligence. God’s creations are innumerable.

The earth cannot be flat.

I guess this goes to show how little you know of flat earth cosmology, because I don’t know of anyone who thinks other worlds are not possible, even many worlds. You make a lot of assumptions.

Our own solar system is a type of our existence and purpose. The ascension of planetary bodies mirrors the ascension of man.

Mother Earth is a being on the path of ascension, the moon acts like the holy spirit (Olea), and the sun is almost like a christ (Shinehah). This whole revolves around a center point of the galaxy, representing the holy eternal Father and Mother. The abode of God is actually toward the center, with Kolob/Eden and Kaholo/Shola.

Stars are all of different sizes and glories. Each has planets that follow it. The planets ascend and progress just like us, progressing toward the center of the galaxy. This is because the creations of God witness of him and his path.

Alma 30
43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.
44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.



Planets move in their regular form and motion around the sun, because it is in similitude of our need to be oriented and in line with the will of Christ. The sun gives life and light to the system.

Now, if there are multiple worlds/planets, there would be universe and depth to the cosmos, because there is space between and boundaries set in the heavens.

[Allison]

...
Thinking you're wise because you are uneducated is even worse than thinking you are wise because of your learning.

You’re talking to me? I think I am wise? Why, because I question the sacred dogmas of corrupt and sold-out academia?

It’s handy for you and Larsen to constantly try to make it about me, isn’t it? My guess is that OE is every bit as educated and accomplished as you, perhaps more so, and though I base my opinion almost entirely upon his ratification of various FE evidences, you go for the cheap shot over and over: “Me sciency; you doofus.” It makes you sound scared of staying on topic, frankly.

I'm talking to globe deniers in general. My impression is that many of them think they are wise. It's up to me to be careful not to do as they do.
And it's up to you to decide if the shoe fits you or OE.

Yes I attack. Yes I have no interest in staying on topic. But why? Is it because I'm scared?
or have I been honest and transparent with you even in my rudeness? --you have no idea what it would mean to you to be "shown the curve, no excuses" AND you reject any and all evidence, AND when your side comes up with objections to the globe you have a very poor track record of thinking seriously about what you may have done wrong.
I'm sure you want me to be scared, I guess this is just another thing you'll have to decide for yourself and yet another thing which ultimately doesn't matter because you are already in a place I can't reach.

And I think you need to seriously consider the possibility that OE is mentally ill, and needs help.
Whatever his accomplishments, his understanding of cosmology is not a combination of good information, good intelligence, and rationality.

As to whether I believe the sun is fixed, since you don't understand me, I will refer you to what Alexander says above, it covers my belief and is reconcilable with the Book of Mormon statement.

If only we could be as awesome as you. Thanks for the advice.

[Allison]

About the Flat, Motionless Earth Itself

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? Isaiah 66:1

Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Job 9:6

For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven; Job 28:24

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:4-5

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job 38:6

That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay [to] the seal; and they stand as a garment. Job 38:13-14

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8

Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 1 Chronicles 16:30

Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart. Jeremiah 9:26

The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Psalms 93:1

Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. Psalms 96:10

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. Psalms 104:5-6

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:12

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: Daniel 4:11

And Uriah said unto David, The ark, and Israel, and Judah, abide in tents; and my lord Joab, and the servants of my lord, are encamped in the open fields; shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing. 2 Samuel 11:11 (NOTE: 16th century’s Matthew’s Bible says “flatt erthe” instead of open fields)

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Matthew 4:8

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Revelation 6:13

And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. Genesis 11:4

About the Firmament

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. Genesis 1:6-8

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 40:22

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? Job 37:18

Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven, Psalms 78:23

It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name. Amos 9:6

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7:56

Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: Psalms 104:2-3

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. Isaiah 34:4

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Revelation 6:14

About the Sun, Moon, and Stars in the Firmament

Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. Psalms 148:4

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Revelation 9:1

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Genesis 1:14

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:16-17

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. Joshua 10:13

Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. Isaiah 38:8

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habakkuk 3:11

Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. Job 22:14

Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Psalms 19:4-6

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. Ecclesiastes 1:5-6

About Heavens Above the Firmament

The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth King for ever. Psalms 29:10

And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. Revelation 4:6

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 22:1

And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. Ezekiel 1:22

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2

About the Waters and the Earth Beneath

He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof. Job 26:10-11

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Genesis 7:11

The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; Genesis 8:2

When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Proverbs 8:27-29

The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. Proverbs 15:24

Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. Proverbs 7:27

But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell. Proverbs 9:18

Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31:37

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:15

Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: Amos 9:2

Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. Psalms 55:15

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

[Allison]

Eyeroll. Mormon was a special witness of the gospel of Christ. He was not a special witness of the cosmos - but there were some amazing prophets who were. I’d rather refer to those who have seen for themselves, which is...actually...what a witness is.

I love how I point out simple and plain things in the Book of Mormon, and people grumble and roll their eyes.

If you won't believe Alma or Mormon, maybe you'll believe Moses?

Moses 1
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;



Many worlds have been created like this one. If there are other worlds like this one, there is space and universe. If there is space, there is depth to the cosmos and an ocean of intelligence. God’s creations are innumerable.

The earth cannot be flat.

I guess this goes to show how little you know of flat earth cosmology, because I don’t know of anyone who thinks other worlds are not possible, even many worlds. You make a lot of assumptions.

Our own solar system is a type of our existence and purpose. The ascension of planetary bodies mirrors the ascension of man.

Mother Earth is a being on the path of ascension, the moon acts like the holy spirit (Olea), and the sun is almost like a christ (Shinehah). This whole revolves around a center point of the galaxy, representing the holy eternal Father and Mother. The abode of God is actually toward the center, with Kolob/Eden and Kaholo/Shola.

Stars are all of different sizes and glories. Each has planets that follow it. The planets ascend and progress just like us, progressing toward the center of the galaxy. This is because the creations of God witness of him and his path.

Alma 30
43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.
44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.



Planets move in their regular form and motion around the sun, because it is in similitude of our need to be oriented and in line with the will of Christ. The sun gives life and light to the system.

Now, if there are multiple worlds/planets, there would be universe and depth to the cosmos, because there is space between and boundaries set in the heavens.

You might be surprised how much of this is compatible with flat earth cosmologies as well.

[Cruiserdude]

Our own solar system is a type of our existence and purpose. The ascension of planetary bodies mirrors the ascension of man.

Mother Earth is a being on the path of ascension, the moon acts like the holy spirit (Olea), and the sun is almost like a christ (Shinehah). This whole revolves around a center point of the galaxy, representing the holy eternal Father and Mother. The abode of God is actually toward the center, with Kolob/Eden and Kaholo/Shola.

Stars are all of different sizes and glories. Each has planets that follow it. The planets ascend and progress just like us, progressing toward the center of the galaxy. This is because the creations of God witness of him and his path.

Alma 30
43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.
44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.



Planets move in their regular form and motion around the sun, because it is in similitude of our need to be oriented and in line with the will of Christ. The sun gives life and light to the system.

Now, if there are multiple worlds/planets, there would be universe and depth to the cosmos, because there is space between and boundaries set in the heavens.

Absolutely brilliant.

I love this. Our universe is amazing and it's almost unfathomable to think a Being, the Eternal Father commands it and it obeys.

And you have a way of writing up your posts too. Gotta give you some props there. Lol I've copied and saved a few posts from you jaja