LDS Church Leaders Congratulate President-Elect Joe Biden

[Serragon]

Trump serving two terms is pie in the sky!

This is not about Trump.

I think it is for Connie.

[EmmaLee]

Trump serving two terms is pie in the sky!

This is not about Trump.

I think it is for Connie.

Then she's on the wrong thread.

[larsenb]

Satan wants to kill, steal, and destroy. I don't believe God is going to permit Satan to wreck America when America just rejected Satan. This is Satan carrying on in lies only as far as God is going to permit him.

Does not compute. > 98% of voters voted for evil in the 2020 presidential election.

When you play the left-right paradigm game, Satan is always the winner.

An extreme black-and-white position taken by "The Creator". The differences between the main economic/political goals supported by DT and those of the Left are palpable and of great consequence. If you've voted 3rd Party (as I did for the last couple of decades), waiting for others to catch up, that's understandable.

But 4 years ago, and certainly this time around, the stakes were too high to fall back on this 'safe' ideological position. DT's core positions took the game out of a strictly black-and-white, Repubs and Demos same-same. Not so. And I get it, abolish the Fed, bring the money-making powers back to the people.

Now if, the judiciary and state legislators don't recognize and right the voter/election fraud very apparent in this election, we're cooked. This fraud will perpetuate in the future with even less chance of rooting it out. Which means you won't have a snow flakes chance in hell to correct the money problem

But I also think that if Biden 'wins' his fraudulent election, you might very well see many Trump voters swing to a new party in an effort to sweep out the 'Rhino Repubs'. And of course, in keeping with Joseph Smith's apparent prophecy, it might be called something like 'The American Independent Party' . Why would this name be so appropriate? Because it opposes the idea of an America dependent on Globalist control. An independent America under the Constitution.

I think the so-called populist movement that Trump tapped into, isn't going to go away. It makes a lot of sense that now is the time for them to establish their own organizations in a clean-sweep fashion; a move that clearly delineates global vs. national/local control. Probably the biggest issue of our day.

[samizdat]

I had a very troubling conversation this morning. A member of a nearby bishopric who is also very pro-Trump told me: "I don't want to go against the prophet so I took my Trump signs down."

I can now clearly understand the goal which the left and the Satanists had in forcing the Church to make this statement. They wanted to manipulate Latter-day Saints. They want to sow confusion and demoralization, just like the Bolsheviks did in Russia during the pivotal moments of the Revolution. They know the Church is heavily composed of conservatives and pro-Trump people.

Someone must have said, "Hey, you know what would be really funny right now? All those LDS folks are super conservative, but they follow their leader as God's prophet. What if we got their leader to say something against Trump, so now they have to choose between following their prophet, or following their conservative ideals? Boy, that would be fun to watch! All those little Mormons squirming as they get to choose between their President or their Prophet!"

It is certainly making good people less willing to fight for Trump and resist this fraudulent takeover of our country.

I believe that some very bad actor(s) have manipulated the Church into making this statement in order to sow such confusion, demoralization and mayhem.

The Church is heavily composed of conservatives and pro-Trump people...in the United States. Outside the USA that simply is not the case, and even within the United States outside the Intermountain West you will find many liberals in the Church or even radicals.

[jreuben]

The Church is heavily composed of conservatives and pro-Trump people...in the United States. Outside the USA that simply is not the case, and even within the United States outside the Intermountain West you will find many liberals in the Church or even radicals.

If this is the case then these beings have NO place in the Church of Jesus Christ. The idea of "liberal" is a bastard aphorism for follower of lucifer. Any ideology in this zone is anti-Christ. This is simply not a debate and the Lord's church must be purged of such.

Furthermore, we all must consider the options that are before us with regards to a new nation or methods for reclaiming this nation away from the satanic communists. There needs to be no talk of "in four years this or that." There will be nothing left if the "cream of the crop" think like this, let alone others.

Pull it together!

[gkearney]

The Church is heavily composed of conservatives and pro-Trump people...in the United States. Outside the USA that simply is not the case, and even within the United States outside the Intermountain West you will find many liberals in the Church or even radicals.

If this is the case then these beings have NO place in the Church of Jesus Christ. The idea of "liberal" is a bastard aphorism for follower of lucifer. Any ideology in this zone is anti-Christ. This is simply not a debate and the Lord's church must be purged of such.

Furthermore, we all must consider the options that are before us with regards to a new nation or methods for reclaiming this nation away from the satanic communists. There needs to be no talk of "in four years this or that." There will be nothing left if the "cream of the crop" think like this, let alone others.

Pull it together!

And how pray tell do you propose to carry out such a purge of such members? I have lived in quite a few countries and can attests that church members outside of the intermountain region of the United State can come from a wide range of political viewpoints. Politic is seldom a matter of discussion in church in most places.

[jreuben]

Simply put @gkearney there is a purge coming. I don't know how it will occur, but rest assured it is coming. If what you say or allude to is true then it is a horrible state and if people cannot realize that politics and religious ideals and belief are intrinsically connected then there will be a rude awakening either in this life or at the bar.

[larsenb]

. . . . . And how pray tell do you propose to carry out such a purge of such members? I have lived in quite a few countries and can attests that church members outside of the intermountain region of the United State can come from a wide range of political viewpoints. Politic is seldom a matter of discussion in church in most places.

Which is too bad, but probably a function of the need to avoid scrutiny from governments of the countries that have recently had surges in membership.

The Church here (speaking collectively and certainly for the top leaders), on the other hand, was highly cognizant early on of the need for religious and personal liberty and freedom, with emphasis that the Church could only have been established in a country that guaranteed those liberties.

Also too bad that currently, there may not be enough emphasis on how freedom is closely tied to individual salvation, and the importance of Church members to care for the needy among them without being forced to; instead of "not being concerned about such things, because it's the government's job".

[larsenb]

. . . .. The Church is heavily composed of conservatives and pro-Trump people...in the United States. Outside the USA that simply is not the case, and even within the United States outside the Intermountain West you will find many liberals in the Church or even radicals.

Which again, is too bad, due, I think, to the reasons I stated in my last post.

[EmmaLee]

Election integrity, folks. That's what this is about - at least to me, anyway.

https://thenewamerican.com/conservative ... fc7fadfbd4

Conservatives to Challenge Biden Electoral Votes in Congress
by Peter Rykowski
December 15, 2020

After spending four years trying to destroy President Donald Trump and the policies and values he stood for, the Left “defeated” him in an election filled with vote fraud and irregularities. Now that the Electoral College has cast its votes, there are growing calls for Congress, on January 6, 2021, to challenge and reject those votes cast in states — including Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — where fraud and unconstitutional voting procedures affected the results.

As The New American has extensively documented, the 2020 election was mired in voter fraud and irregularities, enabled and encouraged by various laws, including those that discourage transparency and make it easy to vote without proper identification. Additionally, many state voting laws and procedures, particularly those adopted since the coronavirus pandemic began, violate Article I, Section 4, of the U.S. Constitution, which states that legislatures must decide those rules, not bureaucrats or courts.

Because of these problems, serious and legitimate doubts exist that Joe Biden actually won, and if he did not actually win states such as Pennsylvania and Georgia, those electoral votes should not be counted in his favor.

While many establishment Republicans — who never supported Trump and his America First policies to begin with — quickly moved to dump Trump and congratulate Biden, others are choosing to fight for election integrity. They have some options at their disposal. [And THIS is what this is all about - election integrity - not Trump vs. Biden]

The Constitution does not give much detail about the counting of electoral votes in Congress. Article II, Section 1, states, “The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.” The 12th Amendment contains a nearly identical sentence. This process is expounded upon in the Electoral Count Act of 1887.

Under the act, if at least one member in both the House and Senate object to any electoral votes, the chambers must debate for up to two hours over the objections. The votes can then be rejected if both chambers vote in favor of rejection. In the current political makeup of Congress, success would be virtually impossible, but if this effort did succeed, Congress would likely decide the next president and vice president. In fact, if neither candidate is determined to have a majority of the Electoral College votes, then the contest would be thrown into the House of Representatives, where each state would have one vote. Since the Republicans currently control more state delegations in the House than the Democrats, Trump would have a path toward a second term in the White House.

Additionally, challenging the electoral votes on January 6 will send a message to Congress and other politicians that patriotic Americans will not roll over and allow the Left to hijack this country and eradicate the principles of the founding fathers. Either way, this fight is only beginning, not ending.

Already, some members of Congress, including Representative Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), have announced they will challenge the electoral votes of certain states. Additionally, some senators have refused to rule out challenging the votes. On top of this, Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the electoral vote-counting. Adding strength to this effort, Republican electors in several states officially won by Biden also cast their votes, keeping Trump’s candidacy alive for now.

It is important that concerned citizens continue pushing for election integrity, in this election and future ones, and that they continue to forcefully advocate for the Constitution and the Founding Fathers’ principles. Congress would be well-advised to do the same and to challenge the electoral votes of states that are in doubt on January 6.

[markharr]

Election integrity, folks. That's what this is about - at least to me, anyway.

You would think everyone would be for election integrity regardless of how they feel about Trump but there are clearly those who will put their agenda of baby murder and whoredoms above the integrity of our elections. .

[EmmaLee]

Election integrity, folks. That's what this is about - at least to me, anyway.

You would think everyone would be for election integrity regardless of how they feel about Trump but there are clearly those who will put their agenda of baby murder and whoredoms above the integrity of our elections. .

Indeed. What I have found is that those who have no control over themselves, or who feel they have no control over their own lives - have a great desire to control others, i.e. Satan and his followers (whether mortal or not). Which is also tied in with lack of personal responsibility/accountability.

[stormcloak]

An extreme black-and-white position taken by "The Creator". The differences between the main economic/political goals supported by DT and those of the Left are palpable and of great consequence. If you've voted 3rd Party (as I did for the last couple of decades), waiting for others to catch up, that's understandable.

But 4 years ago, and certainly this time around, the stakes were too high to fall back on this 'safe' ideological position. DT's core positions took the game out of a strictly black-and-white, Repubs and Demos same-same. Not so. And I get it, abolish the Fed, bring the money-making powers back to the people.

Now if, the judiciary and state legislators don't recognize and right the voter/election fraud very apparent in this election, we're cooked. This fraud will perpetuate in the future with even less chance of rooting it out. Which means you won't have a snow flakes chance in hell to correct the money problem

But I also think that if Biden 'wins' his fraudulent election, you might very well see many Trump voters swing to a new party in an effort to sweep out the 'Rhino Repubs'. And of course, in keeping with Joseph Smith's apparent prophecy, it might be called something like 'The American Independent Party' . Why would this name be so appropriate? Because it opposes the idea of an America dependent on Globalist control. An independent America under the Constitution.

I think the so-called populist movement that Trump tapped into, isn't going to go away. It makes a lot of sense that now is the time for them to establish their own organizations in a clean-sweep fashion; a move that clearly delineates global vs. national/local control. Probably the biggest issue of our day.

Yes, I agree with you. Trump's platform fell outside the norm for both parties. I remember many Republicans wanting to throw Trump under the bus before he became the lion in the White House. Ted Cruz comes to mind... who is now most conservatives' favorite golden boy...

If Trump is ousted, it is indeed game-over.

The only thing I disagree about is the idea that we can create a new populist party à la UKIP. We are out of time and options for that sort of thing. That should have been done decades ago, if it were to have a chance of working. Now we face the constant threat of systemic election fraud in every election. The only thing that can possibly fix this is massive election reform—which will only happen if Trump is re-inaugurated.

The clock is running way too fast at this point for us to fix things in another 4 years. These communists have perfected their game at this point in history. Any attempt to create a new, independent party would be quashed at its inception. They would inject the newly formed party with moles and false friends. Suddenly we'd be finding turncoats everywhere. Then, they would break any backbone of real integrity by drowning the party leaders in court cases, false allegations, and lawsuits which just consume time and money. They have done this many times to previous anti-communist parties. It is no new trick.

The only thing that will work at this point is forcibly taking our country back, IF Trump isn't reinstated. If Trump returns, we have another 4 years of peace (theoretically speaking, not sure what Antifa will do, of course). But the game is really late at this point, and the signs of the times are ripening. It's clear the Savior will return soon, so I am of the view that any attempt at politically retaking our country in a post-Trump world is a pipe dream. We will have to resort to much more basic measures (read: 1776). We will be living in a USSR-type state by then, and we will have much bigger concerns, like what JohnnyL detailed in his post: viewtopic.php?p=1090133#p1090133

[larsenb]

. . . . . Yes, I agree with you. Trump's platform fell outside the norm for both parties. I remember many Republicans wanting to throw Trump under the bus before he became the lion in the White House. Ted Cruz comes to mind... who is now most conservatives' favorite golden boy...

If Trump is ousted, it is indeed game-over.

The only thing I disagree about is the idea that we can create a new populist party à la UKIP. We are out of time and options for that sort of thing. That should have been done decades ago, if it were to have a chance of working. Now we face the constant threat of systemic election fraud in every election. The only thing that can possibly fix this is massive election reform—which will only happen if Trump is re-inaugurated.

The clock is running way too fast at this point for us to fix things in another 4 years. These communists have perfected their game at this point in history. Any attempt to create a new, independent party would be quashed at its inception. They would inject the newly formed party with moles and false friends. Suddenly we'd be finding turncoats everywhere. Then, they would break any backbone of real integrity by drowning the party leaders in court cases, false allegations, and lawsuits which just consume time and money. They have done this many times to previous anti-communist parties. It is no new trick.

The only thing that will work at this point is forcibly taking our country back, IF Trump isn't reinstated. If Trump returns, we have another 4 years of peace (theoretically speaking, not sure what Antifa will do, of course). But the game is really late at this point, and the signs of the times are ripening. It's clear the Savior will return soon, so I am of the view that any attempt at politically retaking our country in a post-Trump world is a pipe dream. We will have to resort to much more basic measures (read: 1776). We will be living in a USSR-type state by then, and we will have much bigger concerns, like what JohnnyL detailed in his post: viewtopic.php?p=1090133#p1090133

You're depressing me, sc. I was just floating a hope about the 3rd Party. in fact, a Party of similar name is already in existence; but I'm afraid you're right about it being too late.

It is remarkable to me, however, that JS apparently did predict a 3rd Party that does happen to encapsulate in its name, the highly important need for the US to keep its independence in the very last days, which can now be seen as being in opposition to global control. How prescient can you get?

[markharr]

If I were Trump, my final act would be to troll Kamala Harris by pardoning everyone she sent to prison for minor pot use and everyone she sent to prison in spite if having exculpatory evidence

[Thinker]

... If Trump returns, we have another 4 years of peace...

Here’s a postcard for you:
Having a wonderful time - wish you were here.



Would you call this year - of ongoing psychological warfare, anti constitutional lockdowns, restrictions on breathing, assembly & religion - peace???

It’s important to note that Hitler began by using an excuse to declare state of emergency which restricted liberties like no assembly, no free speech, no privacy, no trial before imprisoned, dictatorial powers etc.

[stormcloak]

You're depressing me, sc. I was just floating a hope about the 3rd Party. in fact, a Party of similar name is already in existence; but I'm afraid you're right about it being too late.

It is remarkable to me, however, that JS apparently did predict a 3rd Party that does happen to encapsulate in its name, the highly important need for the US to keep its independence in the very last days, which can now be seen as being in opposition to global control. How prescient can you get?

Sorry, wasn't my intent to depress

Just trying to be realistic about what we're facing if things go south.

Yes, I agree. So much of what Joseph Smith said is coming to pass, in many other respects as well.

[EmmaLee]

Would you call this year - of ongoing psychological warfare, anti constitutional lockdowns, restrictions on breathing, assembly & religion - peace???

Isn't it interesting that our prophet and apostles are all for the things you mention here, and have fallen in line completely with every single aspect of this fraud with its accompanying draconian measures. And all of this, of course, trickles down to the local levels, too, unfortunately, thanks to the hierarchical nature of the Church today.

I sure wouldn't call that peace.

[stormcloak]

... If Trump returns, we have another 4 years of peace...

Here’s a postcard for you:
Having a wonderful time - wish you were here.



Would you call this year - of ongoing psychological warfare, anti constitutional lockdowns, restrictions on breathing, assembly & religion - peace???

It’s important to note that Hitler began by using an excuse to declare state of emergency which restricted liberties like no assembly, no free speech, no privacy, no trial before imprisoned, dictatorial powers etc.

Thanks for the postcard. Hope we'll never have to use it

Perhaps I should qualify myself: relative peace. I think there are far worse things ahead than what we saw this year. Study the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Here's a book I highly recommend: Leaves from a Russian Diary by Pitirim Sorokin. Also you could read The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. These will give you an idea of just how bad things could get.

Very sobering times we live in, as history repeats itself...

[Chip]

Would you call this year - of ongoing psychological warfare, anti constitutional lockdowns, restrictions on breathing, assembly & religion - peace???

Isn't it interesting that our prophet and apostles are all for the things you mention here, and have fallen in line completely with every single aspect of this fraud with its accompanying draconian measures. And all of this, of course, trickles down to the local levels, too, unfortunately, thanks to the hierarchical nature of the Church today.

I sure wouldn't call that peace.

And because of our structure and programming, the dictates from the top of the church are executed with exactness all the way down our local ward levels. Obedience is godly.

[Blessourlove]

... If Trump returns, we have another 4 years of peace...

Here’s a postcard for you:
Having a wonderful time - wish you were here.



Would you call this year - of ongoing psychological warfare, anti constitutional lockdowns, restrictions on breathing, assembly & religion - peace???

It’s important to note that Hitler began by using an excuse to declare state of emergency which restricted liberties like no assembly, no free speech, no privacy, no trial before imprisoned, dictatorial powers etc.

Thanks for the postcard. Hope we'll never have to use it

Perhaps I should qualify myself: relative peace. I think there are far worse things ahead than what we saw this year. Study the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Here's a book I highly recommend: Leaves from a Russian Diary by Pitirim Sorokin. Also you could read The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. These will give you an idea of just how bad things could get.

Very sobering times we live in, as history repeats itself...

Solzhenitsyn’s THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO is one I believe everyone should read. My teenagers are reading it now, so we can have a discussion about it. I do worry that I felt they should read it, because of what is coming to their lives.

This acceptance speech he gave in 1983 is great, and obviously most of the West never took the time to study and ponder it.
https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate ... ce-speech/

[samizdat]

Several issues with this, but the most obvious one, and one which several here don't seem to grasp, is that Biden is not the President-Elect - not in any official or legal way - so this statement by the Church is premature at best (and yes, we ALL know that the Church puts these statements out for every new president-elect - that's not the issue - the issue is that Biden is NOT the new president-elect). This is a contested election and will not be legally resolved until Congress meets on January 6th (unless Trump concedes before then). Read the 12th Amendment. Our Founders were genius - they were actually inspired and directed by God.

A similar thing happened in 1876. The 1876 election was ultimately decided by a Congressional commission - as this one will be when Congress reconvenes in January.

This may educate some of you who think the election is over and that Biden is the President-Elect - https://macris.substack.com/p/who-count ... FM6aDtGrWo

Please do read the whole 12th Amendment and/or the article linked to here ^ - but here's just the last couple of paragraphs for those who can't be bothered to read the whole thing -

"Come January 2021, Vice President Mike Pence will be presented with the sealed certificates containing the ballots of the presidential electors. At that moment, the Presidency will be in his hands.

And there is nothing stopping Pence, under the authority vested in him as President of the Senate, from declining to open and count the certificates from the six disputed states. If they are (as more than 70% of Republicans believe) certificates from non-electors appointed via voter fraud, why should he open and count them? As Harrison noted, “the certificates that the President of the Senate is to open… are those of the electors, not those of non-electors.”

The President’s position going into January 2021 is thus considerably stronger than the mainstream media would like to admit. There is Constitutional language and historical precedent that gives his Vice President the unilateral power to decide the outcome of our contested election."

Biden is the president elect. Full stop. Period. NOTHING will change that.

[EmmaLee]

Several issues with this, but the most obvious one, and one which several here don't seem to grasp, is that Biden is not the President-Elect - not in any official or legal way - so this statement by the Church is premature at best (and yes, we ALL know that the Church puts these statements out for every new president-elect - that's not the issue - the issue is that Biden is NOT the new president-elect). This is a contested election and will not be legally resolved until Congress meets on January 6th (unless Trump concedes before then). Read the 12th Amendment. Our Founders were genius - they were actually inspired and directed by God.

A similar thing happened in 1876. The 1876 election was ultimately decided by a Congressional commission - as this one will be when Congress reconvenes in January.

This may educate some of you who think the election is over and that Biden is the President-Elect - https://macris.substack.com/p/who-count ... FM6aDtGrWo

Please do read the whole 12th Amendment and/or the article linked to here ^ - but here's just the last couple of paragraphs for those who can't be bothered to read the whole thing -

"Come January 2021, Vice President Mike Pence will be presented with the sealed certificates containing the ballots of the presidential electors. At that moment, the Presidency will be in his hands.

And there is nothing stopping Pence, under the authority vested in him as President of the Senate, from declining to open and count the certificates from the six disputed states. If they are (as more than 70% of Republicans believe) certificates from non-electors appointed via voter fraud, why should he open and count them? As Harrison noted, “the certificates that the President of the Senate is to open… are those of the electors, not those of non-electors.”

The President’s position going into January 2021 is thus considerably stronger than the mainstream media would like to admit. There is Constitutional language and historical precedent that gives his Vice President the unilateral power to decide the outcome of our contested election."

Biden is the president elect. Full stop. Period. NOTHING will change that.

He most likely will become president-elect on January 6th, but he isn't right now. Full stop. Period. NOTHING will change that - unless the current President concedes before January 6th.

[skylight]

Re: the brethren being misinformed

The brethren are taking MARCHING ORDERS from the UN. They are by their own admission partners with them for the past 6 years (look up on church news).

Birds of a feather flock together.

The LDS church NOW flocks with the whore of Babylon, lies in her bed, and regurgitates likes a dog to its vomit, the lies they promote. They have drawn the line in the sand and have chosen their side.

They will eventually align more publicly with the UN New World Order as part of the one world religion, as has already been public to an extent by aligning RMN as a “Global Faith Leader” along with the Pope, and some other world leaders.

The apostasy is complete.

[stormcloak]

Solzhenitsyn’s THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO is one I believe everyone should read. My teenagers are reading it now, so we can have a discussion about it. I do worry that I felt they should read it, because of what is coming to their lives.

This acceptance speech he gave in 1983 is great, and obviously most of the West never took the time to study and ponder it.
https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate ... ce-speech/

Thank you for sending me this speech from Solzhenitsyn. I had never read this before, but it's a very good speech. Very excellent. He's summarizing the problem with our world, and why communism exists, in a nutshell. It's all about Christ. He's just saying that man has forgotten God, and he explains it so eloquently and plainly that it's impossible to argue with him. Reminds me of Moroni 10:6:

And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

Also I think it's awesome that you've turned your teenagers onto Solzhenitsyn's work. You are absolutely right, they should read it. They will undoubtedly be smarter than their contemporaries and peers, and have a better view of the issues in our world today. It will definitely help their perspective in the trials coming to their lives.

I also recommend Pitirim Sorokin's book (Leaves From A Russian Diary) which I linked to above. That will help them as well, I believe. It is quite shorter than Solzhenitsyn, but still very poignant. I am a fan of both authors. Everyone in the West should be intimately familiar with their works. It should be mandatory reading in our schools.