What's going on with missioanry work?

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dwell_in_safety
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What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by dwell_in_safety »

The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.

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Jason
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Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jason »

Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.

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dwell_in_safety
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Posts: 34

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by dwell_in_safety »

Jason wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.
What historical precedent do you have in mind?

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Jason
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Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jason »

dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Jason wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.
What historical precedent do you have in mind?
Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

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Jamescm
captain of 100
Posts: 567

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jamescm »

dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
That opening paragraph was beautiful. It phrased an analogy based on something on people's minds right now, just the way I would have expected be done in General Conference

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by simpleton »

Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:46 am
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Jason wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.
What historical precedent do you have in mind?
Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.

simpleton
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Posts: 3074

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by simpleton »

There is no union between the Prince of light and the prince of darkness, and there can be no union between their followers. When Christians consented to unite with those who were but half converted from paganism, they entered upon a path which led further and further from the truth. Satan exulted that he had succeeded in deceiving so large a number of the followers of Christ. He then brought his power to bear more fully upon these, and inspired them to persecute those who remained true to God. None understood so well how to oppose the true Christian faith as did those who had once been its defenders; and these apostate Christians, uniting with their half-pagan companions, directed their warfare against the most essential features of the doctrines of Christ.

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Robbinius
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Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Robbinius »

simpleton wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:07 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:46 am
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Jason wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.
What historical precedent do you have in mind?
Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.
This.

Truthfinder78
captain of 100
Posts: 113

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Truthfinder78 »

dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.


If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
You can say that again!!!!

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jason »

simpleton wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:07 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:46 am
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Jason wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

It’s because we value the work of salvation...that compromises are made to continue operations...even if in limited capacities. Plenty of historical precedent for that in other time periods as well.

The church has always been tasked with gathering souls...not arranging the judgment meeting.
What historical precedent do you have in mind?
Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.
to each his own opinion!

You don't like the train...always have the agency of choosing another headed to another destination...

Here's another take on it that is similar to my opinion with his explanation fwiw...
Between now and the time we build Zion – we are vulnerable.

Why don’t church leaders speak out more and warn about the last days and what’s coming?

Why is there no show of strength by the Church?

Why is there so much evil?

Why is there no parting of the Red Sea, as it were, or the ten plagues?

Why is there no drying up of the heavens, or plagues under the administration of the prophet?

Why is it that the church leaders do not march forth in a strong defense, rising up to condemn the nation like the prophets of old?

Where is the equivalent of the burden of Babylon, or the burden of Assyria, or the burden of Moab?

We are just not hearing about these things!

Why do the leaders sit quietly, doing the inner work of the kingdom – rather than battling for righteousness by buying prime time slots on TV, holding huge rallies, or shouting hellfire against the sin centers of the world. Even the missionaries are encouraged not to contend, but to preach with love.

Could it be that we are now in the one thousand two hundred and sixty days when the beast walks the land? Are we now in the time, times, and half-time, when the three and ½ years commence? Are we in the midst of the forty-two months? Could it be that evil really is supposed to have the upper hand, to do its work … almost unhindered (at least for the time being)? Is it really possible?

The Book of Revelation in the New Testament provides an answer. It shows us that the path of the church is not to actively fight against Babylon or to put her down. She is to grow fat and sassy and to grow ever more arrogant and
strong; and to remain ignorant that the day of her destruction is not far distant.

Our job is to flee Babylon (repent), gather Israel through the preaching of the gospel; perfect the Saints, redeem the dead, and build Zion.

The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon. In the Book of Revelation, neither the 144,000 nor the Saints take part in any opposition against Babylon, the dragon, the beast, or false prophets. The Saints are absent from all battlefields. The 144,000 are engaged only in the gathering of those of Israel who will come to the church of the firstborn. The only task that The Book of Revelation assigns to the Saints is to worship God and not the beast, to endure in faith, maintain virtue, to withstand persecution, and to preach the gospel of God.

Evil really does have to have its day! Therefore, the church, for the present, is in a kind of isolation mode – concerned mostly with itself and internal affairs, strengthening its doctrinal and theological foundation – adding to its membership all who will come and leaving the rest of the world to build that part of hell in which they will soon fall.

Yes, evil really has to have its day. This world experiencing the stage on which the cosmos will be able to see the self-destructive nature of unrighteousness. Wickedness is going to come down! It is wickedness that is going to bring wickedness down. (The prophet won’t need to do it – the wicked will bring it on themselves.) The cosmos is going to be able to see that. And just at the point where everyone has learned this lesson . . . then God is going to
step in and save the world.”

God laid out the plan for this world before it was created, and Jesus Christ is carrying out that plan in flawless detail. The Prophet and Apostles today are doing their part in carrying out that plan just as it was designed by God.

We have been warned. We are now being tested to see if we will be obedient to the prophet.

God’s plan is working. The question is – ARE WE ON BOARD WITH HIS PLAN?
https://kellywsmith.com/why-leaders-are ... end-times/

Zathura
Follow the Prophet
Posts: 8801

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Zathura »

Until missionaries are taught to experience EXACTLY what we see happen in the Book of Mormon and New Testament(Mosiah 4,Helaman 5, 3 Nephi 11,Acts 2.. etc.) and they ACTUALLY experience these things, we won't have converted missionaries, let alone missionaries capable of working miracles out in the mission field.

I suspect this will not happen until all hell breaks lose. When we reach the point that our circumstances compel us to be humble to the point that our members begin experiencing these things we will be capable of being servants in God's hands, but by then , because of those circumstances, I believe society will have mostly broken down by then, and the missionary effort won't be near as organized as it is today.

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jason »

Here's another take on it...

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

vs.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1?lang=eng

...the commonality being neither group had the capacity to deliver themselves despite the separate approaches to the problem...also that deliverance didn't come until they humbled themselves and submitted to the will of the Lord and His timing...

Its not a Captain Moroni era...nor is it a Mormon and Moroni era...

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Rand »

dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?

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Robin Hood
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Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Robin Hood »

Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.

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Alexander
the Great
Posts: 4590
Location: amongst the brotherhood of the Black Robed Regiment; cocked hat and cocked rifle

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Alexander »

Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm
simpleton wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:07 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:46 am
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 9:25 pm

What historical precedent do you have in mind?
Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.
to each his own opinion!

You don't like the train...always have the agency of choosing another headed to another destination...

Here's another take on it that is similar to my opinion with his explanation fwiw...
Between now and the time we build Zion – we are vulnerable.

Why don’t church leaders speak out more and warn about the last days and what’s coming?

Why is there no show of strength by the Church?

Why is there so much evil?

Why is there no parting of the Red Sea, as it were, or the ten plagues?

Why is there no drying up of the heavens, or plagues under the administration of the prophet?

Why is it that the church leaders do not march forth in a strong defense, rising up to condemn the nation like the prophets of old?

Where is the equivalent of the burden of Babylon, or the burden of Assyria, or the burden of Moab?

We are just not hearing about these things!

Why do the leaders sit quietly, doing the inner work of the kingdom – rather than battling for righteousness by buying prime time slots on TV, holding huge rallies, or shouting hellfire against the sin centers of the world. Even the missionaries are encouraged not to contend, but to preach with love.

Could it be that we are now in the one thousand two hundred and sixty days when the beast walks the land? Are we now in the time, times, and half-time, when the three and ½ years commence? Are we in the midst of the forty-two months? Could it be that evil really is supposed to have the upper hand, to do its work … almost unhindered (at least for the time being)? Is it really possible?

The Book of Revelation in the New Testament provides an answer. It shows us that the path of the church is not to actively fight against Babylon or to put her down. She is to grow fat and sassy and to grow ever more arrogant and
strong; and to remain ignorant that the day of her destruction is not far distant.

Our job is to flee Babylon (repent), gather Israel through the preaching of the gospel; perfect the Saints, redeem the dead, and build Zion.

The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon. In the Book of Revelation, neither the 144,000 nor the Saints take part in any opposition against Babylon, the dragon, the beast, or false prophets. The Saints are absent from all battlefields. The 144,000 are engaged only in the gathering of those of Israel who will come to the church of the firstborn. The only task that The Book of Revelation assigns to the Saints is to worship God and not the beast, to endure in faith, maintain virtue, to withstand persecution, and to preach the gospel of God.

Evil really does have to have its day! Therefore, the church, for the present, is in a kind of isolation mode – concerned mostly with itself and internal affairs, strengthening its doctrinal and theological foundation – adding to its membership all who will come and leaving the rest of the world to build that part of hell in which they will soon fall.

Yes, evil really has to have its day. This world experiencing the stage on which the cosmos will be able to see the self-destructive nature of unrighteousness. Wickedness is going to come down! It is wickedness that is going to bring wickedness down. (The prophet won’t need to do it – the wicked will bring it on themselves.) The cosmos is going to be able to see that. And just at the point where everyone has learned this lesson . . . then God is going to
step in and save the world.”

God laid out the plan for this world before it was created, and Jesus Christ is carrying out that plan in flawless detail. The Prophet and Apostles today are doing their part in carrying out that plan just as it was designed by God.

We have been warned. We are now being tested to see if we will be obedient to the prophet.

God’s plan is working. The question is – ARE WE ON BOARD WITH HIS PLAN?
https://kellywsmith.com/why-leaders-are ... end-times/
Thank goodness the LDS church isn't entrenched in Babylon. The shopping centers, lavish temples, real estate investments, stocks and bonds, deals with pharmaceutical companies, ties with the UN, selling dna data, billion dollar slush funds, sex abuse coverups, are all there for spreading the gospel. Like Kelly said, "The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon."

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Alexander
the Great
Posts: 4590
Location: amongst the brotherhood of the Black Robed Regiment; cocked hat and cocked rifle

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Alexander »

The gathering of Israel has hardly begun. The marvelous work and wonder as prophesied by Isaiah will begin to take place around the time the Lamanite remnant (remnant of the house of Jacob) led by the Ben-Joseph Servant, receive the Book of Mormon and are converted (2 Nephi 3, 3 Nephi 21). This is the same time when the judgments of the Lord begin and the tribulations are unleashed.

The Gatherers are not LDS missionaries. They are the 144,000; the servants of God, Just men and women made perfect.

D&C 77
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Rand »

Robin Hood wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:29 pm
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.
Indeed they are. Missionaries purpose according to the Preach My Gospel is to : "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored Gospel through faith in Jesus Christ, and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end."
The Church handbook says: The Lord has declared that missionary work is the responsibility of all who follow Him (see Matthew 28:19–20; Doctrine and Covenants 88:81). Members of the Lord’s Church can, by the goodness of their lives and the strength of their testimonies, share the gospel message and help prepare family members, friends, and other acquaintances who are not Latter-day Saints to be taught by the full-time missionaries."
I am pretty sure you were around when Pres. Kimball declared "Every member is a Missionary."
DC Section 4 was not for missionaries, it is and was for all members, especially those who hold the Priesthood.

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Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Jason »

Alexander wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:43 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm
simpleton wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:07 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:46 am

Proclamation on polygamy is a quick easy one

Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.
to each his own opinion!

You don't like the train...always have the agency of choosing another headed to another destination...

Here's another take on it that is similar to my opinion with his explanation fwiw...
Between now and the time we build Zion – we are vulnerable.

Why don’t church leaders speak out more and warn about the last days and what’s coming?

Why is there no show of strength by the Church?

Why is there so much evil?

Why is there no parting of the Red Sea, as it were, or the ten plagues?

Why is there no drying up of the heavens, or plagues under the administration of the prophet?

Why is it that the church leaders do not march forth in a strong defense, rising up to condemn the nation like the prophets of old?

Where is the equivalent of the burden of Babylon, or the burden of Assyria, or the burden of Moab?

We are just not hearing about these things!

Why do the leaders sit quietly, doing the inner work of the kingdom – rather than battling for righteousness by buying prime time slots on TV, holding huge rallies, or shouting hellfire against the sin centers of the world. Even the missionaries are encouraged not to contend, but to preach with love.

Could it be that we are now in the one thousand two hundred and sixty days when the beast walks the land? Are we now in the time, times, and half-time, when the three and ½ years commence? Are we in the midst of the forty-two months? Could it be that evil really is supposed to have the upper hand, to do its work … almost unhindered (at least for the time being)? Is it really possible?

The Book of Revelation in the New Testament provides an answer. It shows us that the path of the church is not to actively fight against Babylon or to put her down. She is to grow fat and sassy and to grow ever more arrogant and
strong; and to remain ignorant that the day of her destruction is not far distant.

Our job is to flee Babylon (repent), gather Israel through the preaching of the gospel; perfect the Saints, redeem the dead, and build Zion.

The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon. In the Book of Revelation, neither the 144,000 nor the Saints take part in any opposition against Babylon, the dragon, the beast, or false prophets. The Saints are absent from all battlefields. The 144,000 are engaged only in the gathering of those of Israel who will come to the church of the firstborn. The only task that The Book of Revelation assigns to the Saints is to worship God and not the beast, to endure in faith, maintain virtue, to withstand persecution, and to preach the gospel of God.

Evil really does have to have its day! Therefore, the church, for the present, is in a kind of isolation mode – concerned mostly with itself and internal affairs, strengthening its doctrinal and theological foundation – adding to its membership all who will come and leaving the rest of the world to build that part of hell in which they will soon fall.

Yes, evil really has to have its day. This world experiencing the stage on which the cosmos will be able to see the self-destructive nature of unrighteousness. Wickedness is going to come down! It is wickedness that is going to bring wickedness down. (The prophet won’t need to do it – the wicked will bring it on themselves.) The cosmos is going to be able to see that. And just at the point where everyone has learned this lesson . . . then God is going to
step in and save the world.”

God laid out the plan for this world before it was created, and Jesus Christ is carrying out that plan in flawless detail. The Prophet and Apostles today are doing their part in carrying out that plan just as it was designed by God.

We have been warned. We are now being tested to see if we will be obedient to the prophet.

God’s plan is working. The question is – ARE WE ON BOARD WITH HIS PLAN?
https://kellywsmith.com/why-leaders-are ... end-times/
Thank goodness the LDS church isn't entrenched in Babylon. The shopping centers, lavish temples, real estate investments, stocks and bonds, deals with pharmaceutical companies, ties with the UN, selling dna data, billion dollar slush funds, sex abuse coverups, are all there for spreading the gospel. Like Kelly said, "The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon."
There's always a critic...and always agency to pick a different train.

For sure the church isn't perfect...its an organization of imperfect people. I can tell stories galore of issues from decades of church and life experience...from a church real estate representative looking for a bribe (mink coat for his wife) at our first business meeting to a stake patriarch who abused his daughters over a 10 year period while the stake patriarch. Bishop who molested a 10 yr old mentally handicapped girl. Recent Bishop busted with underage prostitution ring and drug dealing. On and on.

The Glenn L Pace memo back in the day was real. Elder Oaks stated at a stake conference a couple decades ago to be careful as there were wolves in the church.

That said...this is also true...

This critic business is a dead end - whether open or closet. Doesn't produce anything of any report. Nor is it anything new. The Tanner's have been working this junket for many decades...where has it gotten them? Have they provided any of the saving ordinances - either living or dead? Or even something so simple as the weekly sacrament? Missionary work throughout the world? Built any temples? Accomplished anything really worthwhile for their lifetime of efforts?

Upgrade to the more present Snufferite/Restoration movement...can they claim anything different?

It is the same with all the other critics before and since....

They criticize the vessel while quoting from the works or fruit. Often despite having been given great knowledge and spiritual experiences/witnesses...why?

What is the one common denominator between them - pride. From Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer down to those of our day. They think they know more (and are right...or in other words their judgment is superior) than anyone else in the kingdom...most particularly the counsels that have been ordained and set apart by priesthood authority and possessing the priesthood keys...and in many specific cases...calling into question the authority of the prophet or those who followed him. Look at all the fractures when Joseph and Hyrum were killed...what happened to them all? The Strangites who went to Michigan? Rigdon and the Restorationists? Reorganized?

Image

Where does that get them? On the sidelines watching the good ship Zion sail on without them....

Did the sons of Mosiah and Alma the younger accomplish anything beyond helping a soul or two here and there stray whilst they were going around attacking the church? What about after they came to their senses and got on board the good ship Zion and went to work?

And hat's off to Oliver Cowdery for recognizing that aspect of life and taking the corresponding corrective action.

Doesn't take a whole lot of scripture study to realize that this is the dispensation of the fullness of times. A time when Christ's church is to fill the world...never to be taken from the earth again. The Allegory of Zenos. Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Visions of Isaiah. Lehi, Nephi, and Jacob. Not to mention all the rest who saw and prophesied of this time.

There have never been more missionaries on the earth spreading the gospel of Christ than there are right now (and I'm including faithful members). Never more temples. The holy scriptures are being disseminated throughout the world for access by all. Digitally. Access to sacred scripture...the Words of God and man's historical dealings with God...has never been easier. This is the fullness of times!!! Either get on board and be a part of it....or stand by the wayside in criticism and watch the good ship Zion sale on without you. The choice is yours.

The hard reality at the end of the day is that you need both to live the doctrine and partake of the saving ordinances in order to obtain salvation. Those ordinances come through the keys of the Holy Priesthood. Cut yourself off from the keys....and you are left to wander in the wilderness of life adrift...can't even so much as bless the emblems of the sacrament...and even while one can utter words and give pretense...the reality is...its of no effect.

This is the long prophesied wrap-up prior to the Savior coming and cleaning house (in red)....pick your train...but study it out long and hard in your mind along with prayer and fasting...because its difficult to get off of trains once they get going...and the destination is everything.
One’s intentions may be of the purest kind. The sincerity may be total and complete. Nevertheless, pure intentions and heartfelt sincerity do not give members of the Church authority to declare doctrine which is not sustained by the living prophets. While we are members of the Church, we are not authorized to publicly declare our speculations as doctrine nor to extend doctrinal positions to other conclusions based upon the reasoning of men and women, even by the brightest and most well-read among us.

The prophets are not only called to receive the doctrine and direct the ordinances through the keys they hold. They are also responsible to keep the saving doctrine pure so that people can hear and feel that doctrine in its sure and certain form.

Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …

“They who garnish the sepulchres of the dead prophets begin now by stoning the living ones. They return to the pronouncements of the dead leaders and interpret them to be incompatible with present programs. They convince themselves that there are discrepancies between the practices of the deceased and the leaders of the present. … They allege love for the gospel and the Church but charge that leaders are a little ‘off the beam’! … Next they say that while the gospel and the Church are divine, the leaders are fallen. Up to this time it may be a passive thing, but now it becomes an active resistance, and frequently the blooming apostate begins to air his views and to crusade. … He now begins to expect persecution and adopts a martyr complex, and when finally excommunication comes he associates himself with other apostates to develop and strengthen cults. At this stage he is likely to claim revelation for himself, revelations from the Lord directing him in his interpretations and his actions. These manifestations are superior to anything from living leaders, he claims.”
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... -of-heaven
In Doctrine and Covenants 28:2 Oliver Cowdery is told through revelation given to Joseph Smith, “No one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun.” In time, sadly, Oliver rebelled against Joseph, saying, “If I leave this church, it will fall.” Joseph responded, “Oliver, you try it.” Oliver did try it, and he fell. The kingdom of God, however, remained firm. 2

We enter a state of apostasy when we assume authority we do not possess or when we seek revelation for a stewardship outside of our sphere of responsibility. Our duty, as revealed to Oliver Cowdery, is to “be obedient unto the things” (D&C 28:3) the Lord reveals to His prophet and to our other leaders called through priesthood authority.

When Lehi received the vision of the tree of life, he saw that “there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost” (1 Nephi 8:23).

I testify that we can avoid the mists of darkness that lead to personal apostasy by repenting of our sins, overcoming offense, eliminating faultfinding, and following our Church leaders. We can also avoid those mists by humbling ourselves, forgiving others, keeping our covenants, partaking of the sacrament worthily each week, and strengthening our testimonies through prayer, daily scripture study, temple attendance where possible, magnifying our Church callings, and serving our fellowmen.

We need to be concerned and watchful in order to avoid the mists of darkness that can lead to personal apostasy.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/06/avoi ... l-apostasy
A friend … wished to know whether we … considered an honest difference of opinion between a member of the Church and the Authorities of the Church was apostasy. … We replied that … we could conceive of a man honestly differing in opinion from the Authorities of the Church and yet not be an apostate; but we could not conceive of a man publishing these differences of opinion and seeking by arguments, sophistry and special pleading to enforce them upon the people to produce division and strife and to place the acts and counsels of the Authorities of the Church, if possible, in a wrong light, and not be an apostate, for such conduct was apostasy as we understood the term” (Gospel Truth, sel. Jerreld L. Newquist, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974, 2:276–77).

Among the activities considered apostate to the Church include when members “(1) repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders; (2) persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority; or (3) continue to follow the teachings of apostate cults (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority” (General Handbook of Instructions, 1989, p. 10-3).

Those men and women who persist in publicly challenging basic doctrines, practices, and establishment of the Church sever themselves from the Spirit of the Lord and forfeit their right to place and influence in the Church. Members are encouraged to study the principles and the doctrines of the Church so that they understand them. Then, if questions arise and there are honest differences of opinion, members are encouraged to discuss these matters privately with priesthood leaders.

There is a certain arrogance in thinking that any of us may be more spiritually intelligent, more learned, or more righteous than the Councils called to preside over us. Those Councils are more in tune with the Lord than any individual persons they preside over, and the individual members of the Councils are generally guided by those Councils. In this church, where we have lay leadership, it is inevitable that some will be placed in authority over us who have a different background from our own. This does not mean that those with other honorable vocational or professional qualifications are any less entitled to the spirit of their office than any other. Some of the great bishops of my lifetime included a brickmason, a grocer, a farmer, a dairyman, and one who ran an ice cream business. What any may have lacked in formal education was insignificant. They were humble men, and because they were humble, they were taught and magnified by the Holy Spirit. Without exception, they were greatly strengthened as they learned to labor diligently to fulfill their callings, and to minister to the Saints they were called to preside over. So it is with all of the callings in the Church. President Monson teaches us, “Whom the Lord calls, the Lord qualifies” (Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, May 1988, p. 43).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... riesthood?
We testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord. …

Expecting the spectacular, one may not be fully alerted to the constant flow of revealed communication. I say, in the deepest of humility, but also by the power and force of a burning testimony in my soul, that from the prophet of the Restoration to the prophet of our own year, the communication line is unbroken, the authority is continuous, a light, brilliant and penetrating, continues to shine. The sound of the voice of the Lord is a continuous melody and a thunderous appeal. For nearly a century and a half there has been no interruption
President Spencer W. Kimball in Conference Report, Apr. 1977, 115; or Ensign, May 1977, 78.
As a special witness of Jesus Christ, and as His humble servant, it is now my obligation and privilege, as the Spirit dictates, to bear pure testimony and witness to that which I know to be true. (See Alma 4:19.) This I will do.

I testify that Lucifer was also in the council of heaven. He sought to destroy the agency of man. He rebelled. (See Moses 4:3.) There was a war in heaven, and a third of the hosts were cast to the earth and denied a body. (See Rev. 12:7–9; D&C 29:36–37.) Lucifer is the enemy of all righteousness and seeks the misery of all mankind. (See 2 Ne. 2:18, 27; Mosiah 4:14.)

I testify that God reveals His will to all men through the Light of Christ. (See Moro. 7:16; D&C 93:2; John 1:9.) They receive the additional light of the gift of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands by God’s authorized servants following baptism. (See A of F 1:4; D&C 20:41.)

I testify that throughout the ages God has spoken to His children through His prophets. (See Amos 3:7; Hel. 8:13–20.) Only when His children rejected the prophets were the prophets taken out of their midst, and then tragedy followed. (See 1 Ne. 3:17–18; 1 Ne. 7:14; Hel. 13:24–27.)

I testify that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph Smith in the spring of 1820, thus bringing to an end the long night of apostasy (JS—H 1:15–20). To Joseph Smith appeared other beings, including John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John, who ordained him with authority to act in the name of God (see JS—H 1:68–72; D&C 27:5–13). The church and kingdom of God was restored in these latter days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with all the gifts, rights, powers, doctrines, officers, and blessings of the former-day Church. (See D&C 65; D&C 115:3–4.)

I testify that there has been, and there is now, and there will be legal successors to the Prophet Joseph Smith who hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth, even the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (See D&C 21:1–7; D&C 107:91–92; D&C 112:15.) He receives revelation from God to direct His kingdom. Associated with him are others who are prophets, seers, and revelators, even those who make up the presiding quorums of the Church, namely the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. (See D&C 112:30.)

I testify that the church and kingdom of God is increasing in strength. Its numbers are growing, as is the faithfulness of its faithful members. It has never been better organized or equipped to perform its divine mission.

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS—H 1:45; D&C 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.)

I testify that it is time for every man to set in order his own house both temporally and spiritually. It is time for the unbeliever to learn for himself that this work is true, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom which Daniel prophesied God would set up in the latter days, never to be destroyed, a stone that would eventually fill the whole earth and stand forever. (See Dan. 2:34–45; D&C 65:2.) It is time for us, as members of the Church, to walk in all the ways of the Lord, to use our influence to make popular that which is sound and to make unpopular that which is unsound. We have the scriptures, the prophets, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Now we need eyes that will see, ears that will hear, and hearts that will hearken to God’s direction.

I testify that not many years hence the earth will be cleansed. (See D&C 76:41.) Jesus the Christ will come again, this time in power and great glory to vanquish His foes and to rule and reign on the earth. (See D&C 43:26–33.) In due time all men will gain a resurrection and then will face the Master in a final judgment. (See 2 Ne. 9:15, 41.) God will give rewards to each according to the deeds done in the flesh. (See Alma 5:15.)

I testify to you that a fulness of joy can only come through the atonement of Jesus Christ and by obedience to all of the laws and ordinances of the gospel, which are found only in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (See A of F 1:3.)

To all these things I humbly testify and bear my solemn witness that they are true, and I do so in the name of Him who is the head of this church, even Jesus Christ, amen.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... /i-testify
Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng
I want to say to you before the Lord that you know no more concerning the destinies of this Church and kingdom than a babe upon its mother’s lap. You don’t comprehend it. . . . It is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America—it will fill the world.

Quoted by Wilford Woodruff in CR, April 1898, 57; spelling modernized
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/richard- ... h-prophet/
The standard of truth has been erected; No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.
Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:540.

The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect
https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/mant ... -intellect

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Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Robin Hood »

Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:29 pm
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.
Indeed they are. Missionaries purpose according to the Preach My Gospel is to : "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored Gospel through faith in Jesus Christ, and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end."
The Church handbook says: The Lord has declared that missionary work is the responsibility of all who follow Him (see Matthew 28:19–20; Doctrine and Covenants 88:81). Members of the Lord’s Church can, by the goodness of their lives and the strength of their testimonies, share the gospel message and help prepare family members, friends, and other acquaintances who are not Latter-day Saints to be taught by the full-time missionaries."
I am pretty sure you were around when Pres. Kimball declared "Every member is a Missionary."
DC Section 4 was not for missionaries, it is and was for all members, especially those who hold the Priesthood.
My point was that you had stated that the responsibility for missionary work lies with the members and not the missionaries. This is incorrect according to your quotes from Preach My Gospel and the CHI.
Missionaries are members just as much as those who aren't set apart to be missiomaries by specific assignment.
There is a disconnect in the church and in our mindsets when we refer to missionaries and members as if they are teo entirely different entities. We're all members.

However there is no denying that the burden of labour in regards to the work is heavier upon the missionaries because that is their full-time responsibilty.

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Luke
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Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Luke »

Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm There's always a critic...and always agency to pick a different train.
At it again with the train analogies
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm They think they know more (and are right...or in other words their judgment is superior) than anyone else in the kingdom...most particularly the counsels that have been ordained and set apart by priesthood authority and possessing the priesthood keys...and in many specific cases...calling into question the authority of the prophet or those who followed him. Look at all the fractures when Joseph and Hyrum were killed...what happened to them all? The Strangites who went to Michigan? Rigdon and the Restorationists? Reorganized?
Even though we lost the priesthood as a Church according to Section 124
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Where does that get them? On the sidelines watching the good ship Zion sail on without them....
In your opinion

You're too LDS Church centric. It's not just us who are going to be saved
  • "He [Joseph Smith] closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved." (Joseph Smith, DHC 4:79, 5 Febuary 1840)
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Doesn't take a whole lot of scripture study to realize that this is the dispensation of the fullness of times. A time when Christ's church is to fill the world...never to be taken from the earth again.
No one said it's going to be taken from the earth, but that doesn't mean it can't go apostate... and it doesn't take a lot of Scripture to realise that either
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
Even though Joseph Smith explicitly said that this wasn't about the Church, but about the kingdom of God:
  • "Willard Richard's query as to whether there was a difference between the church and the kingdom sparked lengthy discussion. JS then explained that the two were distinct, as the church was not designed to 'govern men in civil matters' and the kingdom was 'not designed to effect our salvation hereafter.'" (The Joseph Smith Papers, Council of Fifty Minutes, pg. 142, Thursday 18 April 1844)
  • "There is a distinction between the church of God and kingdom of God. The laws of the kingdom are not designed to effect our salvation hereafter. It is an entire, distinct, and separate government. The church is a spiritual matter and a spiritual kingdom; but the kingdom which Daniel saw was not a spiritual kingdom, but was designed to be got up for the safety and salvation of the Saints by protecting them in their religious rights and worship. Anything that would tolerate man in the worship of his God under his own vine and fig tree would be tolerated of God." (Joseph Smith, The Joseph Smith Papers, Council of Fifty Minutes, pg. 201-202, Thursday 18 April 1844)
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Either get on board and be a part of it....or stand by the wayside in criticism and watch the good ship Zion sale on without you. The choice is yours.
Again you are making it out as if membership in an organisation is what will save you
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm The hard reality at the end of the day is that you need both to live the doctrine and partake of the saving ordinances in order to obtain salvation. Those ordinances come through the keys of the Holy Priesthood. Cut yourself off from the keys....and you are left to wander in the wilderness of life adrift...can't even so much as bless the emblems of the sacrament...and even while one can utter words and give pretense...the reality is...its of no effect.
Again the keys were lost

Keys aren't even what the Church say they are either. Prove me wrong using Scripture

Salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone. The doctrine is simple. Repent and come unto Him
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm This is the long prophesied wrap-up prior to the Savior coming and cleaning house (in red)....pick your train...but study it out long and hard in your mind along with prayer and fasting...because its difficult to get off of trains once they get going...and the destination is everything.
Silly analogy
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …
This is a dangerous statement to make
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pmA friend … wished to know whether we … considered an honest difference of opinion between a member of the Church and the Authorities of the Church was apostasy. … We replied that … we could conceive of a man honestly differing in opinion from the Authorities of the Church and yet not be an apostate; but we could not conceive of a man publishing these differences of opinion and seeking by arguments, sophistry and special pleading to enforce them upon the people to produce division and strife and to place the acts and counsels of the Authorities of the Church, if possible, in a wrong light, and not be an apostate, for such conduct was apostasy as we understood the term” (Gospel Truth, sel. Jerreld L. Newquist, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974, 2:276–77).
Cult-like, dependence on the arm of flesh attitude
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Among the activities considered apostate to the Church include when members “(1) repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders; (2) persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority; or (3) continue to follow the teachings of apostate cults (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority” (General Handbook of Instructions, 1989, p. 10-3).
And this is an apostate definition of apostasy. Nothing about Christ, only to do with disagreeing with men
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm There is a certain arrogance in thinking that any of us may be more spiritually intelligent, more learned, or more righteous than the Councils called to preside over us. Those Councils are more in tune with the Lord than any individual persons they preside over... (Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, May 1988, p. 43).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... riesthood?
The irony is, this is completely arrogant

The thing is brother, I see where you're coming from because at one point, we probably all believed this. But you struggle to see our perspective

To use a train analogy... the Church has gone off the rails...

The only train worth getting on is the train of Christ
  • D&C 10

    67 Behold, this is my doctrine--whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
Nothing to do with an institution

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Mindfields
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Posts: 1869
Location: Utah

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Mindfields »

Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:29 pm
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
dwell_in_safety wrote: September 21st, 2020, 8:21 pm The real pandemic in the world is human sin, not covid19. The virus of sin has an infection rate of 100 percent. The consequences of sin are eternally destructive. The Restored Gospel is the only solution to this virus. Yet our full-time missionaries have been locked in their apartments for 6 months and counting.

If gathering Israel is truly the greatest work on earth then why aren't we behaving like it? Why aren't our missionaries out and about preaching repentance if many businesses of much lesser importance are open right now? Why are we kowtowing to the demands of Satanically-inspired politicians and "experts"? Why are we depriving would-be members of the opportunity to hear and receive the restored gospel? Why are we depriving our missionaries of valuable learning experiences that can only be gained through in-person interaction? How much personal progress can you make as a missionary if you spend most of your day surfing Facebook? Facebook is filled with immodesty, profanity, stupidity and other forms of worldliness. I shudder to think today's missionary work mainly consists of browsing it.

It seems like we as a church have shown our true colors during this pandemic. We value physical safety and political correctness more than we value the work of salvation.
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.
Indeed they are. Missionaries purpose according to the Preach My Gospel is to : "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored Gospel through faith in Jesus Christ, and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end."
The Church handbook says: The Lord has declared that missionary work is the responsibility of all who follow Him (see Matthew 28:19–20; Doctrine and Covenants 88:81). Members of the Lord’s Church can, by the goodness of their lives and the strength of their testimonies, share the gospel message and help prepare family members, friends, and other acquaintances who are not Latter-day Saints to be taught by the full-time missionaries."
I am pretty sure you were around when Pres. Kimball declared "Every member is a Missionary."
DC Section 4 was not for missionaries, it is and was for all members, especially those who hold the Priesthood.
This is very deceptive. The church leaves out material facts e.g. historical information, evolution of doctrines etc. in preaching the Gospel to prospective members. The churches attempts to squash and obfuscate its history is coming back to bite them. Lying for the Lord is still lying.

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Mindfields
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Posts: 1869
Location: Utah

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Mindfields »

Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm
Alexander wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:43 pm
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:33 pm
simpleton wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 12:07 pm


Persecution became a heritage for the Saints, for persecution is a cleansing process for the Church. As tribulation came upon the disciples of Christ, only those who were willing to sacrifice everything would remain faithful. Thus, as long as persecution continued, the church would remain pure, but as opposition decreased, then compromising converts were added to the fold. Through these weak and unstable members of the Church, Satan gained a foothold in Christ’s Kingdom. So when persecution ceases against God’s people, it is usually because they have compromised with their enemies.

The idea that many have that the Gospel of JC, needs to be compromised to add numbers to the church I think is ridiculous. Again, what is the point of gathering souls with a watered down, compromised version of the Gospel that will not exalt you. As If God needs luke warm people or even cold people not willing to sacrifice their all, even their very lives for Him
And that is what we have today, a watered down, politically correct compromise with Babylon. The time is coming shortly, I believe, that the compromised will be brought to a crisis that forces a choice between Babylon and Gods Kingdom, here in the flesh. So it shows in the scriptures anyways.
to each his own opinion!

You don't like the train...always have the agency of choosing another headed to another destination...

Here's another take on it that is similar to my opinion with his explanation fwiw...
Between now and the time we build Zion – we are vulnerable.

Why don’t church leaders speak out more and warn about the last days and what’s coming?

Why is there no show of strength by the Church?

Why is there so much evil?

Why is there no parting of the Red Sea, as it were, or the ten plagues?

Why is there no drying up of the heavens, or plagues under the administration of the prophet?

Why is it that the church leaders do not march forth in a strong defense, rising up to condemn the nation like the prophets of old?

Where is the equivalent of the burden of Babylon, or the burden of Assyria, or the burden of Moab?

We are just not hearing about these things!

Why do the leaders sit quietly, doing the inner work of the kingdom – rather than battling for righteousness by buying prime time slots on TV, holding huge rallies, or shouting hellfire against the sin centers of the world. Even the missionaries are encouraged not to contend, but to preach with love.

Could it be that we are now in the one thousand two hundred and sixty days when the beast walks the land? Are we now in the time, times, and half-time, when the three and ½ years commence? Are we in the midst of the forty-two months? Could it be that evil really is supposed to have the upper hand, to do its work … almost unhindered (at least for the time being)? Is it really possible?

The Book of Revelation in the New Testament provides an answer. It shows us that the path of the church is not to actively fight against Babylon or to put her down. She is to grow fat and sassy and to grow ever more arrogant and
strong; and to remain ignorant that the day of her destruction is not far distant.

Our job is to flee Babylon (repent), gather Israel through the preaching of the gospel; perfect the Saints, redeem the dead, and build Zion.

The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon. In the Book of Revelation, neither the 144,000 nor the Saints take part in any opposition against Babylon, the dragon, the beast, or false prophets. The Saints are absent from all battlefields. The 144,000 are engaged only in the gathering of those of Israel who will come to the church of the firstborn. The only task that The Book of Revelation assigns to the Saints is to worship God and not the beast, to endure in faith, maintain virtue, to withstand persecution, and to preach the gospel of God.

Evil really does have to have its day! Therefore, the church, for the present, is in a kind of isolation mode – concerned mostly with itself and internal affairs, strengthening its doctrinal and theological foundation – adding to its membership all who will come and leaving the rest of the world to build that part of hell in which they will soon fall.

Yes, evil really has to have its day. This world experiencing the stage on which the cosmos will be able to see the self-destructive nature of unrighteousness. Wickedness is going to come down! It is wickedness that is going to bring wickedness down. (The prophet won’t need to do it – the wicked will bring it on themselves.) The cosmos is going to be able to see that. And just at the point where everyone has learned this lesson . . . then God is going to
step in and save the world.”

God laid out the plan for this world before it was created, and Jesus Christ is carrying out that plan in flawless detail. The Prophet and Apostles today are doing their part in carrying out that plan just as it was designed by God.

We have been warned. We are now being tested to see if we will be obedient to the prophet.

God’s plan is working. The question is – ARE WE ON BOARD WITH HIS PLAN?
https://kellywsmith.com/why-leaders-are ... end-times/
Thank goodness the LDS church isn't entrenched in Babylon. The shopping centers, lavish temples, real estate investments, stocks and bonds, deals with pharmaceutical companies, ties with the UN, selling dna data, billion dollar slush funds, sex abuse coverups, are all there for spreading the gospel. Like Kelly said, "The church does not have the resources to fight against principles, institutions, or people. Every ounce of energy (financial and human) must be used for people, for morality, for goodness – not for actively opposing Babylon."
There's always a critic...and always agency to pick a different train.

For sure the church isn't perfect...its an organization of imperfect people. I can tell stories galore of issues from decades of church and life experience...from a church real estate representative looking for a bribe (mink coat for his wife) at our first business meeting to a stake patriarch who abused his daughters over a 10 year period while the stake patriarch. Bishop who molested a 10 yr old mentally handicapped girl. Recent Bishop busted with underage prostitution ring and drug dealing. On and on.

The Glenn L Pace memo back in the day was real. Elder Oaks stated at a stake conference a couple decades ago to be careful as there were wolves in the church.

That said...this is also true...

This critic business is a dead end - whether open or closet. Doesn't produce anything of any report. Nor is it anything new. The Tanner's have been working this junket for many decades...where has it gotten them? Have they provided any of the saving ordinances - either living or dead? Or even something so simple as the weekly sacrament? Missionary work throughout the world? Built any temples? Accomplished anything really worthwhile for their lifetime of efforts?

Upgrade to the more present Snufferite/Restoration movement...can they claim anything different?

It is the same with all the other critics before and since....

They criticize the vessel while quoting from the works or fruit. Often despite having been given great knowledge and spiritual experiences/witnesses...why?

What is the one common denominator between them - pride. From Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer down to those of our day. They think they know more (and are right...or in other words their judgment is superior) than anyone else in the kingdom...most particularly the counsels that have been ordained and set apart by priesthood authority and possessing the priesthood keys...and in many specific cases...calling into question the authority of the prophet or those who followed him. Look at all the fractures when Joseph and Hyrum were killed...what happened to them all? The Strangites who went to Michigan? Rigdon and the Restorationists? Reorganized?

Image

Where does that get them? On the sidelines watching the good ship Zion sail on without them....

Did the sons of Mosiah and Alma the younger accomplish anything beyond helping a soul or two here and there stray whilst they were going around attacking the church? What about after they came to their senses and got on board the good ship Zion and went to work?

And hat's off to Oliver Cowdery for recognizing that aspect of life and taking the corresponding corrective action.

Doesn't take a whole lot of scripture study to realize that this is the dispensation of the fullness of times. A time when Christ's church is to fill the world...never to be taken from the earth again. The Allegory of Zenos. Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Visions of Isaiah. Lehi, Nephi, and Jacob. Not to mention all the rest who saw and prophesied of this time.

There have never been more missionaries on the earth spreading the gospel of Christ than there are right now (and I'm including faithful members). Never more temples. The holy scriptures are being disseminated throughout the world for access by all. Digitally. Access to sacred scripture...the Words of God and man's historical dealings with God...has never been easier. This is the fullness of times!!! Either get on board and be a part of it....or stand by the wayside in criticism and watch the good ship Zion sale on without you. The choice is yours.

The hard reality at the end of the day is that you need both to live the doctrine and partake of the saving ordinances in order to obtain salvation. Those ordinances come through the keys of the Holy Priesthood. Cut yourself off from the keys....and you are left to wander in the wilderness of life adrift...can't even so much as bless the emblems of the sacrament...and even while one can utter words and give pretense...the reality is...its of no effect.

This is the long prophesied wrap-up prior to the Savior coming and cleaning house (in red)....pick your train...but study it out long and hard in your mind along with prayer and fasting...because its difficult to get off of trains once they get going...and the destination is everything.
One’s intentions may be of the purest kind. The sincerity may be total and complete. Nevertheless, pure intentions and heartfelt sincerity do not give members of the Church authority to declare doctrine which is not sustained by the living prophets. While we are members of the Church, we are not authorized to publicly declare our speculations as doctrine nor to extend doctrinal positions to other conclusions based upon the reasoning of men and women, even by the brightest and most well-read among us.

The prophets are not only called to receive the doctrine and direct the ordinances through the keys they hold. They are also responsible to keep the saving doctrine pure so that people can hear and feel that doctrine in its sure and certain form.

Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …

“They who garnish the sepulchres of the dead prophets begin now by stoning the living ones. They return to the pronouncements of the dead leaders and interpret them to be incompatible with present programs. They convince themselves that there are discrepancies between the practices of the deceased and the leaders of the present. … They allege love for the gospel and the Church but charge that leaders are a little ‘off the beam’! … Next they say that while the gospel and the Church are divine, the leaders are fallen. Up to this time it may be a passive thing, but now it becomes an active resistance, and frequently the blooming apostate begins to air his views and to crusade. … He now begins to expect persecution and adopts a martyr complex, and when finally excommunication comes he associates himself with other apostates to develop and strengthen cults. At this stage he is likely to claim revelation for himself, revelations from the Lord directing him in his interpretations and his actions. These manifestations are superior to anything from living leaders, he claims.”
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... -of-heaven
In Doctrine and Covenants 28:2 Oliver Cowdery is told through revelation given to Joseph Smith, “No one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun.” In time, sadly, Oliver rebelled against Joseph, saying, “If I leave this church, it will fall.” Joseph responded, “Oliver, you try it.” Oliver did try it, and he fell. The kingdom of God, however, remained firm. 2

We enter a state of apostasy when we assume authority we do not possess or when we seek revelation for a stewardship outside of our sphere of responsibility. Our duty, as revealed to Oliver Cowdery, is to “be obedient unto the things” (D&C 28:3) the Lord reveals to His prophet and to our other leaders called through priesthood authority.

When Lehi received the vision of the tree of life, he saw that “there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost” (1 Nephi 8:23).

I testify that we can avoid the mists of darkness that lead to personal apostasy by repenting of our sins, overcoming offense, eliminating faultfinding, and following our Church leaders. We can also avoid those mists by humbling ourselves, forgiving others, keeping our covenants, partaking of the sacrament worthily each week, and strengthening our testimonies through prayer, daily scripture study, temple attendance where possible, magnifying our Church callings, and serving our fellowmen.

We need to be concerned and watchful in order to avoid the mists of darkness that can lead to personal apostasy.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/06/avoi ... l-apostasy
A friend … wished to know whether we … considered an honest difference of opinion between a member of the Church and the Authorities of the Church was apostasy. … We replied that … we could conceive of a man honestly differing in opinion from the Authorities of the Church and yet not be an apostate; but we could not conceive of a man publishing these differences of opinion and seeking by arguments, sophistry and special pleading to enforce them upon the people to produce division and strife and to place the acts and counsels of the Authorities of the Church, if possible, in a wrong light, and not be an apostate, for such conduct was apostasy as we understood the term” (Gospel Truth, sel. Jerreld L. Newquist, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974, 2:276–77).

Among the activities considered apostate to the Church include when members “(1) repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders; (2) persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority; or (3) continue to follow the teachings of apostate cults (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority” (General Handbook of Instructions, 1989, p. 10-3).

Those men and women who persist in publicly challenging basic doctrines, practices, and establishment of the Church sever themselves from the Spirit of the Lord and forfeit their right to place and influence in the Church. Members are encouraged to study the principles and the doctrines of the Church so that they understand them. Then, if questions arise and there are honest differences of opinion, members are encouraged to discuss these matters privately with priesthood leaders.

There is a certain arrogance in thinking that any of us may be more spiritually intelligent, more learned, or more righteous than the Councils called to preside over us. Those Councils are more in tune with the Lord than any individual persons they preside over, and the individual members of the Councils are generally guided by those Councils. In this church, where we have lay leadership, it is inevitable that some will be placed in authority over us who have a different background from our own. This does not mean that those with other honorable vocational or professional qualifications are any less entitled to the spirit of their office than any other. Some of the great bishops of my lifetime included a brickmason, a grocer, a farmer, a dairyman, and one who ran an ice cream business. What any may have lacked in formal education was insignificant. They were humble men, and because they were humble, they were taught and magnified by the Holy Spirit. Without exception, they were greatly strengthened as they learned to labor diligently to fulfill their callings, and to minister to the Saints they were called to preside over. So it is with all of the callings in the Church. President Monson teaches us, “Whom the Lord calls, the Lord qualifies” (Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, May 1988, p. 43).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... riesthood?
We testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord. …

Expecting the spectacular, one may not be fully alerted to the constant flow of revealed communication. I say, in the deepest of humility, but also by the power and force of a burning testimony in my soul, that from the prophet of the Restoration to the prophet of our own year, the communication line is unbroken, the authority is continuous, a light, brilliant and penetrating, continues to shine. The sound of the voice of the Lord is a continuous melody and a thunderous appeal. For nearly a century and a half there has been no interruption
President Spencer W. Kimball in Conference Report, Apr. 1977, 115; or Ensign, May 1977, 78.
As a special witness of Jesus Christ, and as His humble servant, it is now my obligation and privilege, as the Spirit dictates, to bear pure testimony and witness to that which I know to be true. (See Alma 4:19.) This I will do.

I testify that Lucifer was also in the council of heaven. He sought to destroy the agency of man. He rebelled. (See Moses 4:3.) There was a war in heaven, and a third of the hosts were cast to the earth and denied a body. (See Rev. 12:7–9; D&C 29:36–37.) Lucifer is the enemy of all righteousness and seeks the misery of all mankind. (See 2 Ne. 2:18, 27; Mosiah 4:14.)

I testify that God reveals His will to all men through the Light of Christ. (See Moro. 7:16; D&C 93:2; John 1:9.) They receive the additional light of the gift of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands by God’s authorized servants following baptism. (See A of F 1:4; D&C 20:41.)

I testify that throughout the ages God has spoken to His children through His prophets. (See Amos 3:7; Hel. 8:13–20.) Only when His children rejected the prophets were the prophets taken out of their midst, and then tragedy followed. (See 1 Ne. 3:17–18; 1 Ne. 7:14; Hel. 13:24–27.)

I testify that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph Smith in the spring of 1820, thus bringing to an end the long night of apostasy (JS—H 1:15–20). To Joseph Smith appeared other beings, including John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John, who ordained him with authority to act in the name of God (see JS—H 1:68–72; D&C 27:5–13). The church and kingdom of God was restored in these latter days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with all the gifts, rights, powers, doctrines, officers, and blessings of the former-day Church. (See D&C 65; D&C 115:3–4.)

I testify that there has been, and there is now, and there will be legal successors to the Prophet Joseph Smith who hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth, even the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (See D&C 21:1–7; D&C 107:91–92; D&C 112:15.) He receives revelation from God to direct His kingdom. Associated with him are others who are prophets, seers, and revelators, even those who make up the presiding quorums of the Church, namely the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. (See D&C 112:30.)

I testify that the church and kingdom of God is increasing in strength. Its numbers are growing, as is the faithfulness of its faithful members. It has never been better organized or equipped to perform its divine mission.

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS—H 1:45; D&C 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.)

I testify that it is time for every man to set in order his own house both temporally and spiritually. It is time for the unbeliever to learn for himself that this work is true, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom which Daniel prophesied God would set up in the latter days, never to be destroyed, a stone that would eventually fill the whole earth and stand forever. (See Dan. 2:34–45; D&C 65:2.) It is time for us, as members of the Church, to walk in all the ways of the Lord, to use our influence to make popular that which is sound and to make unpopular that which is unsound. We have the scriptures, the prophets, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Now we need eyes that will see, ears that will hear, and hearts that will hearken to God’s direction.

I testify that not many years hence the earth will be cleansed. (See D&C 76:41.) Jesus the Christ will come again, this time in power and great glory to vanquish His foes and to rule and reign on the earth. (See D&C 43:26–33.) In due time all men will gain a resurrection and then will face the Master in a final judgment. (See 2 Ne. 9:15, 41.) God will give rewards to each according to the deeds done in the flesh. (See Alma 5:15.)

I testify to you that a fulness of joy can only come through the atonement of Jesus Christ and by obedience to all of the laws and ordinances of the gospel, which are found only in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (See A of F 1:3.)

To all these things I humbly testify and bear my solemn witness that they are true, and I do so in the name of Him who is the head of this church, even Jesus Christ, amen.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... /i-testify
Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng
I want to say to you before the Lord that you know no more concerning the destinies of this Church and kingdom than a babe upon its mother’s lap. You don’t comprehend it. . . . It is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America—it will fill the world.

Quoted by Wilford Woodruff in CR, April 1898, 57; spelling modernized
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/richard- ... h-prophet/
The standard of truth has been erected; No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.
Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:540.

The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect
https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/mant ... -intellect
I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent — if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression.
I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent — if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression.

We must preserve freedom of the mind in the church and resist all efforts to suppress it.
Hugh B Brown, A Final Testimony
The leaders have successfully extinguished any freedom of thought in the church. Only their words matter now even to the point of trumping scripture. The great secret which is as plain as day is that Christ is the way. No man or organization needed nor their long list of pharisaical commandments to adhere to.

No need to stay in the boat or pick the right train, just follow Christ and his Gospel.

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Robin Hood
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Location: England

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Robin Hood »

Luke wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 4:23 am
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm There's always a critic...and always agency to pick a different train.
At it again with the train analogies
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm They think they know more (and are right...or in other words their judgment is superior) than anyone else in the kingdom...most particularly the counsels that have been ordained and set apart by priesthood authority and possessing the priesthood keys...and in many specific cases...calling into question the authority of the prophet or those who followed him. Look at all the fractures when Joseph and Hyrum were killed...what happened to them all? The Strangites who went to Michigan? Rigdon and the Restorationists? Reorganized?
Even though we lost the priesthood as a Church according to Section 124
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Where does that get them? On the sidelines watching the good ship Zion sail on without them....
In your opinion

You're too LDS Church centric. It's not just us who are going to be saved
  • "He [Joseph Smith] closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved." (Joseph Smith, DHC 4:79, 5 Febuary 1840)
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Doesn't take a whole lot of scripture study to realize that this is the dispensation of the fullness of times. A time when Christ's church is to fill the world...never to be taken from the earth again.
No one said it's going to be taken from the earth, but that doesn't mean it can't go apostate... and it doesn't take a lot of Scripture to realise that either
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
Even though Joseph Smith explicitly said that this wasn't about the Church, but about the kingdom of God:
  • "Willard Richard's query as to whether there was a difference between the church and the kingdom sparked lengthy discussion. JS then explained that the two were distinct, as the church was not designed to 'govern men in civil matters' and the kingdom was 'not designed to effect our salvation hereafter.'" (The Joseph Smith Papers, Council of Fifty Minutes, pg. 142, Thursday 18 April 1844)
  • "There is a distinction between the church of God and kingdom of God. The laws of the kingdom are not designed to effect our salvation hereafter. It is an entire, distinct, and separate government. The church is a spiritual matter and a spiritual kingdom; but the kingdom which Daniel saw was not a spiritual kingdom, but was designed to be got up for the safety and salvation of the Saints by protecting them in their religious rights and worship. Anything that would tolerate man in the worship of his God under his own vine and fig tree would be tolerated of God." (Joseph Smith, The Joseph Smith Papers, Council of Fifty Minutes, pg. 201-202, Thursday 18 April 1844)
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Either get on board and be a part of it....or stand by the wayside in criticism and watch the good ship Zion sale on without you. The choice is yours.
Again you are making it out as if membership in an organisation is what will save you
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm The hard reality at the end of the day is that you need both to live the doctrine and partake of the saving ordinances in order to obtain salvation. Those ordinances come through the keys of the Holy Priesthood. Cut yourself off from the keys....and you are left to wander in the wilderness of life adrift...can't even so much as bless the emblems of the sacrament...and even while one can utter words and give pretense...the reality is...its of no effect.
Again the keys were lost

Keys aren't even what the Church say they are either. Prove me wrong using Scripture

Salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone. The doctrine is simple. Repent and come unto Him
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm This is the long prophesied wrap-up prior to the Savior coming and cleaning house (in red)....pick your train...but study it out long and hard in your mind along with prayer and fasting...because its difficult to get off of trains once they get going...and the destination is everything.
Silly analogy
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …
This is a dangerous statement to make
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pmA friend … wished to know whether we … considered an honest difference of opinion between a member of the Church and the Authorities of the Church was apostasy. … We replied that … we could conceive of a man honestly differing in opinion from the Authorities of the Church and yet not be an apostate; but we could not conceive of a man publishing these differences of opinion and seeking by arguments, sophistry and special pleading to enforce them upon the people to produce division and strife and to place the acts and counsels of the Authorities of the Church, if possible, in a wrong light, and not be an apostate, for such conduct was apostasy as we understood the term” (Gospel Truth, sel. Jerreld L. Newquist, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974, 2:276–77).
Cult-like, dependence on the arm of flesh attitude
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm Among the activities considered apostate to the Church include when members “(1) repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders; (2) persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority; or (3) continue to follow the teachings of apostate cults (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishops or higher authority” (General Handbook of Instructions, 1989, p. 10-3).
And this is an apostate definition of apostasy. Nothing about Christ, only to do with disagreeing with men
Jason wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 6:19 pm There is a certain arrogance in thinking that any of us may be more spiritually intelligent, more learned, or more righteous than the Councils called to preside over us. Those Councils are more in tune with the Lord than any individual persons they preside over... (Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, May 1988, p. 43).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... riesthood?
The irony is, this is completely arrogant

The thing is brother, I see where you're coming from because at one point, we probably all believed this. But you struggle to see our perspective

To use a train analogy... the Church has gone off the rails...

The only train worth getting on is the train of Christ
  • D&C 10

    67 Behold, this is my doctrine--whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
Nothing to do with an institution
D&C 10:67 is quoted a lot.
It describes two activities:
1. Repenting
2. Coming unto Christ.

Most of us know what #1 means, but what does #2 mean?
How do we come unto Christ?
Could that be where the church plays its role? Priesthood, callings and service, dispensing of ordinances, enabling of covenant making etc?
I would contend that #1 is available to all and is the common Christian experience.
However, I would suggest that #2 is exclusively available through, and accessed via, the Church.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Rand »

Robin Hood wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 2:52 am
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:29 pm
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.
Indeed they are. Missionaries purpose according to the Preach My Gospel is to : "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored Gospel through faith in Jesus Christ, and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end."
The Church handbook says: The Lord has declared that missionary work is the responsibility of all who follow Him (see Matthew 28:19–20; Doctrine and Covenants 88:81). Members of the Lord’s Church can, by the goodness of their lives and the strength of their testimonies, share the gospel message and help prepare family members, friends, and other acquaintances who are not Latter-day Saints to be taught by the full-time missionaries."
I am pretty sure you were around when Pres. Kimball declared "Every member is a Missionary."
DC Section 4 was not for missionaries, it is and was for all members, especially those who hold the Priesthood.
My point was that you had stated that the responsibility for missionary work lies with the members and not the missionaries. This is incorrect according to your quotes from Preach My Gospel and the CHI.
Missionaries are members just as much as those who aren't set apart to be missiomaries by specific assignment.
There is a disconnect in the church and in our mindsets when we refer to missionaries and members as if they are teo entirely different entities. We're all members.

However there is no denying that the burden of labour in regards to the work is heavier upon the missionaries because that is their full-time responsibilty.
I hear you. To me it is a subtle difference, but a vital distinction, all members hold this burden. Missionaries have a special call to dedicate themselves full time to the teaching of the Gospel. But, members as a whole hold the responsibility to share the Gospel, and they can't dump it off on the missionaries. I refer back to DC 4:4, 20:59, and the comment of Pres. Kimball, and the statement from Pres. Nelson engaging the youth and the RS in gathering Israel. Why not the Priesthood holders? Because we have the obligation by virtue of holding the priesthood. So, if we try and assume that it is the missionaries job to do missionary work, and we are outliers in the process, we loose vital blessings and maybe even our salvation, if you believe the Lords word in DC 4:4.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: What's going on with missioanry work?

Post by Rand »

Mindfields wrote: September 23rd, 2020, 5:40 am
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:29 pm
Rand wrote: September 22nd, 2020, 1:26 pm
It is the members job to gather Israel not the missionaries. I would direct the question to the vital audience: What are you doing to gather Israel on both sides of the veil: DC 4:4...he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;"
Your salvation hangs in the balance. What are you doing? That is the vital question we each need to be asking ourselves.
The Missionaries are a sidelight to missionary work. What happens to them or what they do as far as missionary works concerned is mostly significant to their own salvation. Gathering Israel is primarily a Priesthood obligation and a Member obligation, not the missionaries job. They are just there to help us, and to have a profound opportunity to be converted themselves. The burden lies at our door. What are you doing about it?
I would point out that missionaries are members.
They are also specifically set apart to gather Israel through full-time missionary service.
Indeed they are. Missionaries purpose according to the Preach My Gospel is to : "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored Gospel through faith in Jesus Christ, and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end."
The Church handbook says: The Lord has declared that missionary work is the responsibility of all who follow Him (see Matthew 28:19–20; Doctrine and Covenants 88:81). Members of the Lord’s Church can, by the goodness of their lives and the strength of their testimonies, share the gospel message and help prepare family members, friends, and other acquaintances who are not Latter-day Saints to be taught by the full-time missionaries."
I am pretty sure you were around when Pres. Kimball declared "Every member is a Missionary."
DC Section 4 was not for missionaries, it is and was for all members, especially those who hold the Priesthood.
This is very deceptive. The church leaves out material facts e.g. historical information, evolution of doctrines etc. in preaching the Gospel to prospective members. The churches attempts to squash and obfuscate its history is coming back to bite them. Lying for the Lord is still lying.
The Lord leaves out Quantum Physics and advanced Human Biology in the Scriptures. Is He cheating us? No, it is just not directly relevant to the mission at hand. Some things matter, and some are just not essential for our spiritual growth and development and in getting to the ultimate objective. At a certain point, in golf, you can get far enough off the course that you are in the trees. I know, I spent a lot of time there when I wasted time golfing, but it is never a better way to the objective than staying on the fairways. Even the rough is not productive. Some people love the woods, but it is not the place to go if your objective is to put the ball in the cup.
Has Tiger Woods played into the woods at times. Yup. Does that make him a bad golfer? Nope. Did it help his game? Nope. Should we focus on that part of his game? Not how he got there, maybe on how he got out. But to dwell on that part of his game is non productive to most peoples golf game.

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