President Nelson - Prophetic !

[SPIRIT]

I don't think so.
President Nelson is anything but prophetic.

If this is what Pres. Nelson calls "exciting", and an ‘unprecedented future’ for the church,
and "things are going to move forward at an accelerated pace",
then I think his crystal ball must have not been working.

- missionaries called home
- churches and temples closed

And personally, I don't think that people - wanting to stay in their house everyday for fear of what's going on,
and wearing a mask if you go out, is what I would call "exciting" and an ‘unprecedented future’ either.

President Nelson
(2018)
"Wait till next year, and then the next year," President Nelson says. "Eat your vitamin pills. Get some rest. It's going to be exciting."
---------------
“If you think the Church has been fully restored, you’re just seeing the beginning. There is much more to come.”

“This is a hinge point in the history of the Church.
Things are going to move forward at an accelerated pace. …
The Church is going to have an unprecedented future, unparalleled.
We’re just building up to what’s ahead now.”

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53671&p=997136&hili ... nt#p997136

[Mark]

Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than to publicly bash the LDS church and its leadership day in and day out? Maybe find ANOTHER hobby?? Golf is a lot of fun. You can take out all your aggressions on a little white golf ball. If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack! You will Probably become more productive and less cynical.. Just sayin.

[Kaarno]

I believe it is a matter of perspective. It will be hard and glorious. We will have to come together as saints It feels similar to Helaman chapter 4. We are going to lose a lot. but will be brought into humility and repentance. Then we as a body of saints will again be spiritually reawakened.

The problem with us as a body of saints is the same as the Nephites in the sixtieth year of the reign of the judges. to paraphrase Helaman 4:12 The pride of their hearts, exceeding riches, oppression of the poor, withholding food from the hungry, withholding their clothing from naked, smiting their humble brethren, mocking sacred things, denying the spirit of prophecy and revelation, murdering, plundering, lying, stealing, committing adultery, rising up in great contentions, and deserting into the land of the Lamanites. These are things of the world that we as saints have allowed to leak into our lives. The cleansing will come and we will be brought low and through the atonement made great again.

Just my opinion. I am excited for our coming days.

[SPIRIT]

re "Don’t you have anything better to do with your time "

no, not really.
Seeking and finding the truth and sharing it, has been more than just a hobby for me -
it's been a big part of my life, and is what the Lord has had me do.

I love truth, and sharing it, and bring to light the real truth in our scriptures -
that has been intentionally smothered by those who would be exposed by the truth.

First knowing where you are - is needed - to know where you're going,
and showing others the truth - that the church is in apostasy and judgments are coming on us - the Gentiles
is very important, so some members that believe - that these warnings in our scriptures and the judgments that are coming
are meant for us as members, can repent and change, and seek the Lord while there's still time.

with all that's going on - don't you think it's about time that members wake up to their awful situation
and realize that the current church is not all what they've made it out to be, and is in apostasy ?

[FoundMyEden]

I believe it is a matter of perspective. It will be hard and glorious. We will have to come together as saints It feels similar to Helaman chapter 4. We are going to lose a lot. but will be brought into humility and repentance. Then we as a body of saints will again be spiritually reawakened.

The problem with us as a body of saints is the same as the Nephites in the sixtieth year of the reign of the judges. to paraphrase Helaman 4:12 The pride of their hearts, exceeding riches, oppression of the poor, withholding food from the hungry, withholding their clothing from naked, smiting their humble brethren, mocking sacred things, denying the spirit of prophecy and revelation, murdering, plundering, lying, stealing, committing adultery, rising up in great contentions, and deserting into the land of the Lamanites. These are things of the world that we as saints have allowed to leak into our lives. The cleansing will come and we will be brought low and through the atonement made great again.

Just my opinion. I am excited for our coming days.

I’m looking forward to this, in and out of the church. It’s not hard to see the saints all over the world who are rising up, putting our liberties and God first. There is a huge spiritual awakening happening worldwide amongst the drama. Who can’t see it? I see normal people prophesying, saints pulling together, people putting their families first where once mammon was all they cared about. Many people are being hurt or struggling amongst the changes but birth isn’t easy. Yes, we will be made low and made great again.

[Robin Hood]

If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack!

I doubt that will make him feel better.... sounds pretty painful.

[Mark]

If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack!

I doubt that will make him feel better.... sounds pretty painful.

GOLF balls you cheeky devil..

[nightlight]

[FoundMyEden]

If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack!

I doubt that will make him feel better.... sounds pretty painful.

Lol

[FoundMyEden]

If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack!

I doubt that will make him feel better.... sounds pretty painful.

GOLF balls you cheeky devil..

You know you set that up.

[dewajack]

Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than to publicly bash the LDS church and its leadership day in and day out? Maybe find ANOTHER hobby?? Golf is a lot of fun. You can take out all your aggressions on a little white golf ball. If it makes you feel better just write LDS on your balls and give them a whack! You will Probably become more productive and less cynical.. Just sayin.

Wow, some things you can't unsee and some things you can't unread:)

[Luke]

The truth is you’re all being tight on Spirit when in fact, he’s trying to wake you all up so that you might avoid the condemnation. You just don’t see it

[Luke]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

[gangbusters]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

[SPIRIT]

re "Don’t you have anything better to do with your time "

no, not really.
Seeking and finding the truth and sharing it, has been more than just a hobby for me -
it's been a big part of my life, and is what the Lord has had me do.

I love truth, and sharing it, and bring to light the real truth in our scriptures -
that has been intentionally smothered by those who would be exposed by the truth.

First knowing where you are - is needed - to know where you're going,
and showing others the truth - that the church is in apostasy and judgments are coming on us - the Gentiles
is very important, so some members that believe - that these warnings in our scriptures and the judgments that are coming
are meant for us as members, and can repent and change, and seek the Lord while there's still time.

with all that's going on - don't you think it's about time that members wake up to their awful situation
and realize that the current church is not all what they've made it out to be, and is in apostasy ?

I think it is time to get a job. That’s a good hobby, some would even say an obligation.

I think it's time for you to see and experience scriptures being fulfilled,
because The Times of the Gentiles is coming to an end,
So as a Gentile and member of the church, you'd better pick up your scriptures
and start reading about the Gentiles to know what you'll be going through.
Here, this might help.

GENTILES - your future

As a Gentile and member of the church, you might want to read this
about what the future holds for you and the church
and this "choice land" of America.

quote
"What the first book (the Bible) lacks, a second supplies.
The Book of Mormon comes forth from the Nephites to the Gentiles.
(1 Nephi 13:35; 3 Nephi 16:4; 21:2).
Many of the Gentiles believe the book. (2 Nephi 30:3).
The Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel. (D&C 20:8-9)
In that manner, the Lord restores the gospel's plain and precious parts (1 Nephi 13:34-36, 40)
He pours the Holy Ghost as a blessing upon the Gentiles , ( 3 Nephi 16:6; 20:27),
and they are convinced that Jesus is the Christ (2 Nephi 26:12).
The Lord establishes his Church among the Gentiles,
and they come into the covenant he made with the house of Israel.(3 Nephi 21:22).

The Book of Mormon comes forth to try the Gentiles' faith:
it contains but the "lesser part" of Jesus' words to the Nephites.(3 Nephi 26:8).
If the Gentiles will believe that portion - the Book of Mormon -
the Lord will manifest to them the greater things also.(3 Nephi 26:9).
The Book of Mormon, the record of a fallen people, contains warnings to the Gentiles: Moroni adds to the Book of Mormon a brief history of the Jaredites, addressing his abridgment specifically to the Gentiles.(Eth. 2:11).
He interrupts his account four times to speak directly to the them. (Eth. 2:9-12; 4:6-5; 8:23-26; 12:6-41).
Moroni has seen the Gentiles in a vision.(Morm 8:35). He tells them, therefore, things they should know.
The nation that does not serve God will be swept off the land. (Eth 2:9-10).
The Gentiles should repent and become clean before the Lord. (Eth. 4:6).
They should not allow secret combinations to get above them. (Eth 8:23-25).
They must exercise faith as did the ancients. (Eth. 12:6-31).
They must have hope and charity. (Eth.12:36-37).

Two consecutive histories of fallen peoples on this land fore-warn
the Gentiles of their own imminent fate. (Eth. 2:11; 8:21-26).
Mormon has vividly described the destruction of the Nephites. (Morm. 6:1-22).
Now Moroni recounts the destruction of the Jaredites in order to persuade
the Gentiles to repent. (Eth. 2:11; 8:23).
The Lord bids the Gentiles to come unto him.(Eth. 4:13).
In him they may be cleansed and sanctified. (Eth. 4:6-7).
The two following parallel statements tell the Gentiles the cause of their unbelief. Rhetorical markers are "when ye shall" and "then shall".

Ether 4
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shallye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people.
(emphasis added (Italicized) "when ye shall" "then shall"

The parallel nature of this scripture reveals a deeper meaning.
It teaches that people can rend the veil of unbelief- which has caused
them to remain in an awful state of wickedness, hardness of heart, and blindness of mind - by calling on the Father in the name of Jesus with a broken heart and a a contrite spirit.
It further teaches that the great and marvelous things hidden up from the foundation of the world are the Father's fulfillment of his covenant with the house of Israel, as contained in the revelations of John. These great and marvelous things, however, have not yet been revealed. As adverse as it may seem , we conclude from these scriptures, therefore, that many of us as Gentiles still remain in an awful state of wickedness. We have not yet rent the veil of our unbelief- we have not called upon the Father in the name of Jesus as we ought.
The Gentiles' rending of the veil is significant in this overall scripture. Moroni has just shown us how the Brother of Jared "rent the veil".
The Lord now bids the Gentiles to do the same.
When they exercise faith as the Brother of Jared saw.
In other words, the Lord invites the Gentiles to make their calling and election sure by being received into his presences as the Brother of Jared was.
When they do that, he will reveal to them the "greater things", unfolding to them all his revelations.
The Lord's great and marvelous work typifies the greater things.
The Lord performs that work among the Gentiles.
To that end, he sends among them the three Nephite disciples. The great and marvelous work involves the coming forth of the words of Christ.
The Father empowers a latter-day servant to bring forth the words of Christ to
the Gentiles. The servant is the light to the Gentiles. To him, they rally as to an ensign. When the Lord lifts up his hand and ensign to the Gentiles, they perform their saving mission to the house of Israel.
Through his latter-day servant, the Lord concludes His work among the Gentiles and commences His work among the house of Israel: as the Lord's covenant, light, and ensign, the servant personifies the gospel that has hitherto served as a "covenant", "light", and "standard" to the Gentiles, as the gospel has been a "messenger" preparing the way before the Lord, so the servant is a "messenger" who prepares the way before the Lord's coming to earth.

The Book of Mormon contains less than a hundredth part of Jesus' words to the Nephites. Yet, in the last days, the fullness of Jesus' words comes forth to the Gentiles in accordance with the servant's mission.
The plates of Nephi contain the greater part of what Jesus taught the people.
They, therefore, are among the "other books" to come forth. They "make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world".
They make known also the folly and abominations of the Gentiles.
Prophecies about the Gentiles in the latter days thus show two facets. Those Gentiles who are under condemnation- which causes the Lord to withhold from them the greater things- will remain under condemnation if they do not repent.
For that reason, the Gentiles must turn from their evil ways. Those Gentiles who make their calling and election sure, to whom the Lord reveals the greater things, do not, of course, represent all the Gentiles. In the latter days, the gospel turns first to the Gentiles. But when many of them reject it, the gospel turns to the Jews and other natural lineages of Israel.

Moroni saw that many Gentiles would mock the Brother of Jared's vision. Moroni writes that vision in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. Many Gentiles too, will not believe the great and marvelous work - will not believe the words of Christ. Of the words of Christ coming forth in the day, the Gentiles will say, "A Bible!, A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible". The Words of Christ and the Brother of Jared's vision cover the entire history of humanity. In that respect, they resemble the Bible more than the Book of Mormon does. The two full accounts will come forth to the Gentiles- when some Gentiles become sanctified as the Brother of Jared - and turn from the Gentiles to the house of Israel.
From these scriptures , we gain a clearer idea of how so many Gentiles will sin against the gospel of Jesus Christ . They will disavow the new revelations the Lord will bring forth. Having formerly received the gospel, many Gentiles will now reject it. Instead of repenting of their iniquities, they will harden their hearts and deny the Lord of Hosts. Refusing to come unto Christ and obey his voice, these Gentiles will be as "salt that hath lost its savor".
At the time they reject the gospel, the wicked Gentiles are "lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations". They are "filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations". Being "lifted up in the pride of their eyes", they "put down the power and miracles of God". Publishing for money, they "preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor".

These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings. They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them. Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them.
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long. But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy; Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ.

Although the Gentiles know God's decrees on this land, many allow secret combinations to get above them. Drunken with iniquity and all manner of abominations, they suffer woes- God's covenant curse. When they reject his words, the Lord cuts them off from his people. He removes the fullness of his gospel from among the wicked, giving it to those who will receive it. With the wicked Gentiles' apostasy and its aftermath, the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Lord turns the iniquities of the Gentiles upon their own heads. He comes out in justice against them. The wicked Gentiles bring down the fullness of God's wrath, just as the Jaredites and Nephites did. The Lord visits the Gentiles "with thunder and with earthquake, and with a great noise, and with storm, and with tempest, and with the flame of devouring fire". The sword of justices falls on the wicked Gentiles. He destroys the Gentiles; cities and chariots and executes vengeance and fury upon them. He covers their land with a desolating sickness. A scourge consumes the wicked.
The unrepentant Gentiles cannot stand before God's power. Lehi's descendants, whom God empowers, marshal themselves and vex the wicked Gentiles.
They go among the Gentiles like a lion among the beasts, treading down and tearing to pieces. Lehi's descendants, who are of the house of Israel, inherit the Gentiles' lands and cities. The Lord reestablishes Lehi's descendants in this land, even as the wicked Gentiles perish.

Although the scriptures say that the Gentiles will perish, the Lord doesn't utterly destroy them. Some Gentiles, as we have seen, turn from their evil ways. Some don't harden their hearts.
They don't unite with that great and abominable church nor fight against Zion. These Gentiles know where their blessings come from - they know that the Lord has blessed them with the blessings of Israel.
To save as many Gentiles as will come to him, the Lord calls on them before the day of judgement. he stirs up the Gentiles and the house of Israel in order to persuade them to repent. The Gentiles must repent and not continue in iniquity. They must forthwith repent and humble themselves. If they do, it will be well with them. As they repent and come to the Lord, he will be merciful to them. Those Gentiles who repent and obey the words of Christ will be blessed.
The Gentiles who come unto Christ receive baptism; they obtain a remission of their sins and are filled with the Holy Ghost. When the Gentiles come unto Christ, he shows them their weakness; yet his grace suffices for those who humble themselves. Faith, hope, and charity bring the Gentiles of Christ, the fountain of all righteousness. The Lord saves the righteous Gentiles both temporally and spiritually.
After manifesting himself to the Gentiles, the Lord manifests himself to the Jews. The gospel goes first to the Gentiles and then to the house of Israel.
The Gentiles take the gospel to Lehi's descendants, and also to the Jews. The Twelve, the Seventy, and other Latter-day Saints assist in carrying the gospel of the Jews.

When the Lord lifts up his hand to the Gentiles, they serve as an "ensign/standard" to the house of Israel.
The house of Israel receives the Book of Mormon through the fullness of the Gentiles. That involves, additionally, the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. "Other books" go forth from the righteous Gentiles to the house of Israel. These books convince the house of Israel of the truthfulness of the gospel and they are blessed again under the covenant.
The Lord softens many Gentiles' hearts toward Lehi's descendants. Many care for the house of Israel and sorrow for their destruction. They curse the house of Israel and serve as fathers and mothers to them. They minister the gospel's fullness to Lehi's descendants. The Lord consecrates the Gentiles' riches to the poor of the house of Israel.
Thus are the natural branches grafted back into the olive tree.
When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, the Jews again gather to Jerusalem. The righteous Gentiles assist the house of Israel in gathering them from dispersion; they carry the house of Israel to the lands fo their inheritance. They assist Lehi's descendants to gather to the New Jerusalem. They help Lehi's descendants build the city. The Lord's promises are great to the Gentiles. The Lord blesses the righteous Gentiles by numbering them with the house of Israel. The Lord numbers many Gentiles with Lehi's descendants. The Lord has promised this land to Lehi's descendants.
Like them, the righteous Gentiles are blessed on this land forever.
Like them, these Gentiles come down captive no more. The righteous Gentiles also are the covenant people of the Lord.

Analysis of the term Gentiles in the scriptures thus supports our earlier findings about the Gentiles; latter-day mission. But it yields a complete and more detailed picture of what that mission is all about. The question of identities - of Latter-day Saint "Gentiles" and other inhabitants of the Americas- is her resolved.
The twofold nature of the Gentiles in the last days- with some numbered among Lehi's descendants and others cut off from the Lord's people- transcends our Latter-day Saint identity. Those who make their calling and election sure are called "Gentiles", even as those cut off from the Lord's covenant are called "Gentiles". In the end, however, the repentant Gentiles assume the identity of the house of Israel whereas the unrepentant are destroyed. Together with other gentile inhabitants of the Americas, the unrepentant remain "Gentiles" and suffer God's judgments.
Latter-day Saints who fulfill their righteous mission, therefore, are known as Gentiles but only for an interim period.
The interval between the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the Lord's day of judgment serves as a time of probation that determines which identity will emerge. As with all the Lord's covenants, that probationary period enables us to prove our faithfulness and to receive the promised blessings. Just as the Jews anciently ministered the gospel to the Gentiles, so will the Gentiles minister it to the house of Israel."


The Gathering of Israel’s Outcasts from Exile

A hard fact of Isaiah’s end-time scenario is that it is not those who appear to be God’s people whom God saves in the end but those who are rejected by the majority.
These “outcasts” suffer “reproach” and “ridicule,” are “excluded” from God’s people, and, like God’s servant who gathers them, are “despised” and “abhorred” until God reverses their circumstances (Isaiah 49:7–8; 51:7; 60:15–16; 61:7, 9; 66:5–8).
In the end, those who are excluded and betrayed by their own people, are gathered with God’s righteous remnant: “Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: ‘I will gather others to those already gathered’” (Isaiah 56:3, 8).

end quote

[SPIRIT]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

Wrong on both counts. "Spirit" isn't trying to help anyone. There isn't a modicum of charity in his posts. There's only bile and bitterness. Secondly, the Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

looks like some members never change, and continue in their delusion that "all is well in Zion",
and never read the scriptures or the words of Christ, nor do they care about them.
They care more about following the prophet, and the precepts of men, and trusting in the arm of the flesh.

21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say:
All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
2 Nephi 28

[Luke]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with politics. (Unless you count caving to Babylon as politics)

We were in apostasy long before masks came along

I get it, it goes against the “follow the prophet” and the “brethren can never lead you astray” mantras. But it’s the truth

See this: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55094&p=1030826&

[gangbusters]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

Wrong on both counts. "Spirit" isn't trying to help anyone. There isn't a modicum of charity in his posts. There's only bile and bitterness. Secondly, the Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

looks like some members never change, and continue in their delusion that "all is well in Zion",
and never read the scriptures or the words of Christ, nor do they care about them.
They care more about following the prophet, and the precepts of men, and trusting in the arm of the flesh.

21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say:
All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
2 Nephi 28

Read my post, I AM. I said that many of our membership are not walking up to their covenants. Show me one time, ONE, where I’ve even hinted that “all is well in Zion.” To your warped way thinking, anyone who supports the Church and prophet falls into that group.

[gangbusters]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with politics. (Unless you count caving to Babylon as politics)

We were in apostasy long before masks came along

I get it, it goes against the “follow the prophet” and the “brethren can never lead you astray” mantras. But it’s the truth

See this: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55094&p=1030826&

You better believe I’m one of those “follow the prophet” types. Very proud of it. I hope I always will be.

[Luke]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with politics. (Unless you count caving to Babylon as politics)

We were in apostasy long before masks came along

I get it, it goes against the “follow the prophet” and the “brethren can never lead you astray” mantras. But it’s the truth

See this: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55094&p=1030826&

You better believe I’m one of those “follow the prophet” types. Very proud of it. I hope I always will be. You guys are so blind. You weave these elaborate sophistries to convince yourself we can follow Christ while rejecting his prophets and his Church.

I’m not blind, I have to say that’s a pretty damning accusation since the only time you’ve ever made contact with me is over the past few hours on a public forum. I can hardly say you know me

They aren’t “elaborate sophistries” at all though. The sad thing is you’d rather sit on your high horse looking down upon everyone who has concerns with the doctrinal changes, corporatism, cover ups, cult like behaviour and control, and neglect of the pure Doctrine of Christ and paint us all as some blind, wicked apostates. Unfortunately (for you), you’ll find that the opposite is true. We’re actually trying to follow Christ and seek truth. You just think that truth can only be found in a corporation. We disagree

I don’t reject true prophets, only false prophets and people who aren’t actually prophets. I don’t reject His Church either and look forward to when it is set in order as D&C 85:7 tells us of and Alma 6 typifies

Instead of accusing us of being blind... maybe try looking in the mirror brother... it might help you

[Luke]

Also please stop trying to act as if you need to go through men and institutions to get to Christ... because you don’t (don’t just take my word for it, read what Jesus has to say about it)

[Juliet]

It's always wonderful you are having a baby up until you go into labor.

[Alexander]

Just to clarify before someone begins slating me—no, I don’t hate the Church leadership nor do I think that constantly attacking them is the way to go

But, the Church is in apostasy, from top to bottom, this is simply undeniable, and the sooner we realise that, the better

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with politics. (Unless you count caving to Babylon as politics)

We were in apostasy long before masks came along

I get it, it goes against the “follow the prophet” and the “brethren can never lead you astray” mantras. But it’s the truth

See this: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55094&p=1030826&

You better believe I’m one of those “follow the prophet” types. Very proud of it. I hope I always will be. You guys are so blind. You weave these elaborate sophistries to convince yourself we can follow Christ while rejecting his prophets and his Church.

Christ’s Church (assembly) are those who repent and come unto him.

Christ’s prophets are those who speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, who teach the pure and simple doctrine of Christ and cry repentance.

[gangbusters]

The Church is not in apostasy "top to bottom." Now if you want to talk about our membership, I have no argument. We've (metaphorically) become fat, lazy, and complacent. Relatively few truly strive to keep their covenants and remain separate from the world. The general leadership is not "in apostasy." Since this is such a subjective issue no one's going to convince the "Church is in apostasy" crowd otherwise. There is ZERO compelling evidence of such an apostasy. Change my mind: draw comparisons from the REAL apostasy to today.

Almost without exception that ilk views absolutely everything through the lens of their ultra conservative politics. If the Church asks us to wear masks then of course it's because the Church has made a COVENANT WITH DEATH and is buying into the coronavirus hoax. If we don't come out and breathe fire and brimstone against the sodomites it's because we're in bed with the homos and it's only a matter of time before we start allowing gays marry in the temple. If we have anyone from the NAACP over to Church HQ it's because we've "gone liberal." Good grief it never ends.

There is a considerable number of members, conservative and liberal, who screen everything the Church says or does through the lens of their politics. That's what this "apostasy" BS boils down to, plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with politics. (Unless you count caving to Babylon as politics)

We were in apostasy long before masks came along

I get it, it goes against the “follow the prophet” and the “brethren can never lead you astray” mantras. But it’s the truth

See this: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55094&p=1030826&

You better believe I’m one of those “follow the prophet” types. Very proud of it. I hope I always will be. You guys are so blind. You weave these elaborate sophistries to convince yourself we can follow Christ while rejecting his prophets and his Church.

I’m not blind, I have to say that’s a pretty damning accusation since the only time you’ve ever made contact with me is over the past few hours on a public forum. I can hardly say you know me

They aren’t “elaborate sophistries” at all though. The sad thing is you’d rather sit on your high horse looking down upon everyone who has concerns with the doctrinal changes, corporatism, cover ups, cult like behaviour and control, and neglect of the pure Doctrine of Christ and paint us all as some blind, wicked apostates. Unfortunately (for you), you’ll find that the opposite is true. We’re actually trying to follow Christ and seek truth. You just think that truth can only be found in a corporation. We disagree

I don’t reject true prophets, only false prophets and people who aren’t actually prophets. I don’t reject His Church either and look forward to when it is set in order as D&C 85:7 tells us of and Alma 6 typifies

Instead of accusing us of being blind... maybe try looking in the mirror brother... it might help you

I’m not looking down on anyone. Accusing people who strive to be obedient to leaders of being self righteous, holier than thou, and “leader worshippers” is a popular refrain and ad hominem attack of people like you. I look in the mirror plenty. And the fact that you characterize the church as a mere corporation shows your jaundiced view of it.

I listen to the words of the prophets. They resonate with truth. They teach the words of Christ. There are no apostate doctrines. You and people like you appear to only want to follow the prophets when it comports with YOUR view of how things should be. What faith that requires!

Give me SPECIFIC examples of what our general leaders have done to lead us into apostasy. To make it easy, start with President Nelson. I’ll wait. While you’re at it, please point me to examples in the scriptures where true followers of Christ follow him while rejectIng his Church at the same time.

[diligently seeking]

I believe it is a matter of perspective. It will be hard and glorious. We will have to come together as saints It feels similar to Helaman chapter 4. We are going to lose a lot. but will be brought into humility and repentance. Then we as a body of saints will again be spiritually reawakened.

The problem with us as a body of saints is the same as the Nephites in the sixtieth year of the reign of the judges. to paraphrase Helaman 4:12 The pride of their hearts, exceeding riches, oppression of the poor, withholding food from the hungry, withholding their clothing from naked, smiting their humble brethren, mocking sacred things, denying the spirit of prophecy and revelation, murdering, plundering, lying, stealing, committing adultery, rising up in great contentions, and deserting into the land of the Lamanites. These are things of the world that we as saints have allowed to leak into our lives. The cleansing will come and we will be brought low and through the atonement made great again.

Just my opinion. I am excited for our coming days.

We are pretty cavalier when we call ourselves “saints” membership does not equate to being a saint. The day we become actual Saints is the day we appreciate Alma 12: 9-12 D&C 76: 1-10 1nephi 10:17-22 etc

Once we begin to receive as Jesus in holy writ through his choice servants admonish—fidelity to Jesus trumps all... until then, we make idols of the good and better but seek not (as we should) the best—Ether 4. Hence our condemnation as outlined in D&C 84....