Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

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Truth will Prevail
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Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Truth will Prevail »

This is an article back from 1992 i think, you cant trust alot of the things you read but i did find this intresting. What do you think, could this ever happen???? I hope not! Here is also the link. (Read below)


link.http://www.rickross.com/reference/tlc/tlc2.html


It's Judgment Day for Far Right: LDS Church Purges Survivalists
Salt Lake Tribune, November 29, 1992
By Chris Jorgensen and Peggy Fletcher Stack


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is purging hundreds of Mormon dissidents who church officials say are preoccupied unduly with Armageddon.
This massive housecleaning may be one of the church's largest since the 1850s, when thousands were excommunicated for everything from poor hygiene and low church attendance to disobeying the Ten Commandments.

In recent months, Mormons from Utah, Nevada, Arizona and Idaho have been expelled and many others have been threatened. Numbers are impossible to determine because excommunication records are guarded closely.

Don LeFevre, LDS spokesman, would not confirm that mass excommunications are unfolding. However, he did say LDS Church leaders increasingly have been concerned about ultraconservative ``super patriots'' and survivalists, many of whom have quit their jobs and moved their families to mountain retreats.

Those interviewed by The Salt Lake Tribune say they have faced church discipline for a range of transgressions -- from having too much emergency food storage to adhering to the doomsday predictions of popular Mormon presidential candidate Bo Gritz, who received more than 28,000 Utah votes in the November election.

Targeted are those obsessed with the early speeches of LDS Church President Ezra Taft Benson and who believe the ailing, 93-year-old leader has been silenced because his opinions no longer are politically popular.

``We support President Benson 100%,'' says Elaine Harmston, who was excommunicated from her Manti ward last month with her husband, Jim. ``He has warned us thoroughly. But there are some brethren who speak 180 degrees against him.''

LDS Church leaders worry that some members are taking too literally statements made decades ago by Elder Benson before he became president.

In a recent speech, Elder Malcolm Jeppson, a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy who oversees the Utah-South region of the church, urged Mormons not to ``take out of context words and statements made by church presidents that were given at a different time and circumstance than the present.''

He urged Mormons ``walking on the fringes of our faith to seek the safety of the center.''

At the church's October general conference, LDS apostle Boyd K. Packer cautioned members about falling for the survivalist line.

``Do not be deceived,'' he warned, by those ``who have not been regularly ordained by the heads of the church, who tell of impending political and economic chaos, the end of the world -- something of the `sky is falling.' . . . They are misleading members to gather to colonies or cults.''

LDS Church leaders from central and southern Utah complained of such ``troublesome ideologies'' during a Nov. 13-14 meeting at the Edgemont Stake Center in Provo. Elder Jeppson outlined a profile of dissidents. Stake presidents have used that profile to compile a list of warning signs.

``There is a lot of concern about some things that are going on,'' says Harold Nicholl, one of six Sanpete County stake presidents using the list as a guide for excommunications.

Among activities sounding the alarm at stake houses across the West:

-- The practice of home schooling.

-- Having leanings or membership in the John Birch Society.

-- Holding study groups.

-- An inordinate preoccupation with food storage.

-- Reading doomsday books and other materials unapproved by the church.

-- People who sell their services of gospel understanding for money.

-- Quoting the exact day of the coming of Jesus Christ.

-- Performing temple ordinances outside the temple.

To some, the list contradicts church standards. For decades, Mormons have been urged to store food for an emergency. The church always has insisted that members follow the president, whom the faithful believe is a prophet.

By the new standards, ``President Benson wouldn't even be allowed to stay in the church,'' says a prominent Utah Mormon, referring to the leader's association with the ultraconservative John Birch Society.

The profile apparently was used to finger Elaine and Jim

Harmston.

``Our stake president said, `You cannot discuss the gospel in your own home with anyone except your own family or you will be excommunicated,' '' says Elaine

Harmston. ``That was something we couldn't go along with.''

But it was more than scripture study that upset the Harmstons' Mormon leaders. The couple continue to teach and practice a special form of prayer prohibited outside Mormon temples.

Several weeks ago, the Harmstons' bishop read an open letter to the congregation warning them to stay away from the Harmstons' study group or risk discipline.

The next week, more people attended the study group than ever, Mr. Harmston claims.

``There are thousands of people hungry for the truth and they're tired of the pablum they're getting from the church,'' he says.

As the study group swelled, Manti church leaders began surveillance on the Harmstons' home, taking down visitors' license-plate numbers. The visitors were later called in for interviews by LDS leaders, says Mrs. Harmston.

Larry Garmoth believes that's how he got caught.

``It's a small town,'' he explains. ``Everyone knows what everyone else's car looks like.''

Mr. Garmoth says he was interviewed by his stake president and told not to associate with the Harmstons. Within weeks he was demoted from his security-guard job at the LDS Manti Temple to groundskeeper.

LDS Church officials feared Mr. Garmoth was letting apostates into the temple after hours to perform clandestine religious rituals -- a charge Mr. Garmouth denies.

``My guts are just torn out because of the stupidity of this thing,'' he says.

Another church member in nearby Fairview says he was threatened with excommunication for having too much food in storage.

``I was told that one year's worth of food storage is enough and anything more is excess,'' says the lifelong Latter-day Saint, who asked not to be identified.

He says he amassed a huge cache of food to help other church members during a crisis. ``I haven't done anything I haven't been told to do by the prophet.''

The extreme actions taken by LDS Church leaders indicate their sense of urgency in squelching the survivalist movement among their ranks. No fewer than three LDS general authorities spoke directly to fringe Mormons at the October conference.

Apostle M. Russell Ballard told members ``not to overreact'' to signs that the end of the world is near. He cautioned against being ``caught up in extreme preparations.''

While the church is focusing on the ultraconservatives for now, Elder Jeppson also has counseled stake presidents to watch out for feminists who advocate women holding the priesthood and pray to a Mother in Heaven. He also warns of intellectuals who challenge the origins of the Book of Mormon and church authority.

Rosabella
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Rosabella »

I remember the early 90's when members were getting in trouble with the church. They were becoming apostate in their beliefs. Sure if we start saying we know more than the Prophet and start preaching our own way, the same would happen. That was a different time, different issues. I think if we are going to see mass excommunication it will be those members that have intermingled occult doctrines into their faith. I know the GAs feared this issue of the occult becoming within the members popular as it has now, being the cause of the wheat and the tare separating.

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MercynGrace
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by MercynGrace »

Sounds to me like these folks were holding their own church services, preaching their own gospel and, performing or at least imitating temple rites outside the temple.

I've never heard of people getting excommunicated for having excessive food storage but I have heard that bishops were counseled not to call those who are food storage experts (or people obsessed with the principle) as emergency prep specialists because there was a problem with them becoming overzealous. Perhaps that counsel grew out of the situations described in the article.

It's so easy to become consumed with a pet doctrine. Satan uses our strengths against us and then next thing you know we're calling the prophet to repentance, posting online polls about whether or not the GAs are in apostasy, or dissecting every word they utter in response to a presidential inauguration. 8)

Teasing aside, I don't think we'll see mass excommunications. I think people will fall away for the same reasons they always have but as Satan ratchets up the persecution, many more will succomb.

ktg
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ktg »

Truth will Prevail wrote:
-- People who sell their services of gospel understanding for money.

-- Quoting the exact day of the coming of Jesus Christ.

-- Performing temple ordinances outside the temple.
These are the ones that I would expect to be worrisome. The others listed, from my studies, would be of no concern to me.

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

To answer the question though, Yes there has got to be a cleansing of the inner vessel.

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BroJones
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by BroJones »

As events unfold, IMO those who fail to heed the counsel to get food storage are more likely to be the ones in trouble... and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the importance of food storage!

The latest pamphlet from the Church discusses 3-month storage AND "long-term" storage (rather than the previous "1-year supply". That "Long-term" descriptor allows for more than 1 year (IMO), and perhaps that's why the change in wording.

will
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by will »

I check the source, These people are followers of this guy.
James "Jim" D. Harmston--founder, president and prophet of TLC. He was given the "Keys to the Kingdom" and ordained by "the grand patriarchs Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses". TLC members believe he is the reincarnation of Joseph Smith.
Last edited by will on March 3rd, 2009, 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mahonri
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Mahonri »

that article was actually propaganda to scare people away from good things, by mixing good things like the JBS with the other bad stuff. No one has ever been exed for food storage or supporting the Constitution.

The folks that were exed were doing temple ceremonies in homes, putting people as leaders over themselves, and other such nonsense. I know a guy that was involved in this whole thing, he has since repented, come back to the Church and then left again for some protestant sect, but from his first hand account, the stuff that was going on was stuff all here would probably agree should merit excommunication

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BroJones
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by BroJones »

Thanks, Mahonri, for that insight.
(I thought most people knew Harmston was a polygamist.)

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kathyn
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by kathyn »

This article was from the SL Tribune....so take it with a grain of salt, please. These people obviously were doing more than just storing food. They were out on the fringe and doing apostate things. But they need the excuse that the GAs were out of line. So they excuse their actions by blaming the Church leaders for being out of tune with the Lord.

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Truth will Prevail
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Truth will Prevail »

What about the wheat and the tares, this will happen within the church. How do you think this will happen??? What do you think will cause the seperation itself??? Will it be those members suporting the NWO?? Could be those that are just not spiritual enough? Maybe those that dont have food storage?? Or maybe those that have not awakened to their awful situation? Also how far do you think the seperation will go up in the church, just the members or right up to the GAs??

Oh! Just for the record for those that maybe confused, please do not be offended with this topic, i am not supporting this article at all, just wanted insight of it, i am from the UK and sometimes we do not get the info you guys may get over in the US so i just wanted what people knew of it. GREAT INSIGHTS!!!

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kathyn
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by kathyn »

truth will prevail...
What do you think will cause the seperation itself??? Will it be those members suporting the NWO?? Could be those that are just not spiritual enough? Maybe those that dont have food storage?? Or maybe those that have not awakened to their awful situation?
I think it's a compilation of all of those things... but especially those who haven't got a firm grasp on the rod of iron. I believe that we will separate ourselves....drift into apostasy or come under the influence of break-away groups because they won't follow the doctrine and will set themselves above the teachings of the prophets. So I think some will openly rebel while others are led away a step at a time.

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shadow
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by shadow »

Truth will Prevail wrote:What do you think will cause the seperation itself??? Maybe those that dont have food storage??
I'm pretty sure it all boils (no pun intended) down to food storage, and whether or not one is prepared to share it :wink:

will
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by will »

I'm pretty sure it all boils (no pun intended) down to food storage, and whether or not one is prepared to share it
Shadow can you elaborate on that?

ShawnC
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ShawnC »

That's just not funny.

Rosabella
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Rosabella »

Reasons for separation or a purge in the church.

I have talked with the GAs on this subject of how the wheat and tares would possibly separate. As Lucifer appears as an angel of light he will deceive even the elect. Through the politically correct spirituality and politics we will see a huge part of this separation. They said they feared that this would be a large cause of the separation of the wheat and tares. This is not my idea, this was the GAs. They fear the spirituality side will be a major contributor of the separation. Members are intermingling these false doctrines with Mormon doctrines. When the church takes stands that go against these intermingled held beliefs members leave. They start to believe the doctrines of devils over the church. Just like about gay marriage. Members listen to the voice of tolerance over the voice of the prophet.

The new spirituality and the NWO are the politically correct view of the world. Soon to be the only voice that are allowed. The NWO and it new religions are now flourishing. You can not separate the new age religion and the new world order they are one and the same. They are Lucifer’s plan from the pre-mortal world and battle we are still fighting today. It is promoted everywhere including Oprah. Most members of the LDS Church do not even know what either is. But you have to understand both the political and spiritual parts or you will be deceived.

I feel the separation of the wheat and the tares we be caused by many factors over a period of time. Some of the kinds of reasons people will leave the church or be asked to leave:

Members must have a very strong testimony of Jesus Christ and the Restored Gospel in the way the doctrines teach, a strong testimony of the scriptures and doctrines of the church, a strong testimony the Prophets counsels and be willing to follow the leaders of the Church in ALL that they are told to do by them. If Church tells them to do or not to do something they do not agree with they will dismiss it. They will then fall victim to the consequences of their actions. They will either leave or be excommunicated. I feel the majority of the separation will be voluntary.

We always see people pulled into the world and away from the Church do to immorality or worldliness. That of course this will increase pulling members out of the church.

The Church will take stands like they did on Prop 8. Some members will not agree members will remove their memberships. This happened over Prop 8.

As the Church takes moral stands that “appear” political or judgmental compared to what the world says is ‘tolerant” and good members will chose the world over the church. The world is now teaching and is increasing the doctrine of unconditional love, tolerance and peace. This is spiritual and politically taught. The Church will grow increasingly louder and louder in a voice of opposition and be viewed as a “politically incorrect voice” in the world, which will cause persecutions and attacks on Mormons. Members that do not like the “heat” will leave. The church would not even have to say more than they are saying now to cause this to happen. Lucifer’s plan is harvesting millions of members and as their doctrines become the accepted way of belief, (which they are now), they will point fingers at anyone that is different as judgmental and intolerant and needing to change their ways for the benefit of the world. The church does not need to change anything to heap this persecution upon us. It is just in the given nature of our doctrines that we will be persecuted for. We will not change with the world as the whole world changes.

The church will stand as one of the last voices in favor of the constitution. All those that support the constitution will be considered evil. The new age occult/new world order believes the constitution is greatly flawed and innately evil. Members will start believing the occult on these kinds of issues and leave following this new religion and politics of Lucifer.

When safety is offered by the world during crisis, via financial, medical, shelters, internals strife, riots, possible invasions etc… many will chose their temporal welfare over their spiritual. The Church may even give a direct statement not to take assistance or participate, but members will not head the warnings because of their “Safety” thinking the church is wrong. Their temporal fears will be more important to them then what the church says. Therefore they will leave.

The new world order and its religion will teach peace and unconditional love for all. This will pull many good LDS to Lucifer’s plan of peace. Who that has a good heart does not want to help the needy, feed the hungry and have world peace? Those that do not support this plan will look evil, judgmental and intolerant. The members do not want to be perceive or be (in their minds) judgmental, unloving and intolerant will leave for this world view.

If we are called to live the law of consecrations some members will not want do that for many different reasons. Some will not like agree to participate fully and leave. If this was implemented, only those that participate will be part of the church.

There may be some huge test of faith. I am not saying this will happen…but this is a good example. “If” the prophet knew something bad was going to happened but it was not evident in the world at the time and warned all members to flee with the church somewhere. Members would have to leave almost everything behind how many would have the faith to do this? How many would say the Prophet was being Chicken Little and dismiss his warning? This could be in many different kinds of situations.

We must have Faith, Faith in God, Faith in the Church, Faith in Christ as taught by the Church, Faith in the Prophet and Faith in following the Prophet in all he tells us to do.

The KEY to be wheat will be to eliminate all pride and become humble and fully believe in Thy will not mine. If not we will find ourselves as tares. Pride is the root of all separation of the wheat and tares.

Thy will not mine.

There will be more reasons, these were just a few.
Last edited by Rosabella on March 3rd, 2009, 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoGreaterLove
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by NoGreaterLove »

We all do a lot of talking about the purging that is and will go on in the church. I wonder how many of us have a grasp on the reality of what type of sacrifices we are going to face. The "refiners fire" has probably touched many of our lives. But what kind of fire do we have to go through, how pure must we be to withstand the presence of Christ when he comes? Many have heard the following story, but it serves as a reminder of what a "refiners fire" is.

One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible Study.

That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver.

As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities.

The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot then she thought again about the verse that says: "He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver."

She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.

The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed.

The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy - when I see my image in it."

If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you.

larsenb
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by larsenb »

NoGreaterLove wrote:Many have heard the following story, but it serves as a reminder of what a "refiners fire" is. . . . . .
She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.

The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy - when I see my image in it."

If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you.
Wow! Thanks. I don't recall hearing this story before, or if I did, somehow it didn't stick. Wonderful!

ShawnC
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ShawnC »

will wrote:I check the source, These people are followers of this guy.
James "Jim" D. Harmston--founder, president and prophet of TLC. He was given the "Keys to the Kingdom" and ordained by "the grand patriarchs Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses". TLC members believe he is the reincarnation of Joseph Smith.

Will,

I have a brother and sister who are part of this TLC church and follow Harmston.

Shawn

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Mark
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Mark »

I just got back in from being out of town for a couple weeks so I don't have a lot of time here but this is one subject that has caused me some reflection. Sometimes we may lose sight of how the adversary works in our lives best. He is a very subtle devil and knows exactly how to lead us away from the light one baby step at a time.

He uses distraction as one of his primary weapons. He does not want us to be shaken from our apathy or half hearted commitment to consecrate ourselves fully to the building of the kingdom of God. He would prefer that we just continue to keep one foot in Babylon and not immerse ourselves fully in being part of the redemption of Zion.

He does not want us to experience that mighty change of heart spoken of by Alma and have our desires layed upon the alter with full intent to do only the Lords will in our lives. He is happy to see us follow after our own selfish desires and participate little by little in babylonian pursuits.

For example He knows we most likely won't go to X rated movies so he feeds us subtle soft porno in entertainment under the guise of PG or PG 13 or R movies and art and literature. He attacks our youth in getting them to follow worldly pursuits and fashions. He gets us excited about spending most all our spare time pursuiting sports or entertainment or politics or on and on so we don't give the Lord our broken hearts and wills. In essence the father of all lies wants us to blend in gradually with babylon and not be awaken as to its subtle dangers in leading the desires of our hearts away from the Saviors invitation to come unto Him with full purpose of heart.

He has been very successful in his tactics that he has been using against the Saints. Why would he want to risk these successes by waking us up from our slumber?

ktg
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ktg »

Bella wrote:As Lucifer appears as an angel of light he will deceive even the elect.

Mark 13: 22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


What's your take on "if it were possible"?

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ithink
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ithink »

Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Yes, it's already started -- I've received my "notice". Have you got yours?

Is this purging referring to purging people, or purging sin?

Rosabella
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by Rosabella »

ktg wrote:
Bella wrote:As Lucifer appears as an angel of light he will deceive even the elect.

Mark 13: 22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


What's your take on "if it were possible"?
I would say this.

There are those that are truly elect, like Prophets and the more humble and faithful saints that the Lord knows will follow his will regardless of Lucifer appearing as an angel of Light. There are those that may think they are elect of God or may aspire to be the elect of God. Those can and in many cases will be deceived.

I think what the scripture means is this. That if the elect did not have faith in Father 100%, that they would be deceived because the false christs seem so good and have supernatural power. What saves the elect is their humility and desire to submit to Father’s will. If they do not have that as part of their core nature, they will be deceived.

This is happening today....

ShawnC
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by ShawnC »

Bella wrote:
ktg wrote:
Bella wrote:As Lucifer appears as an angel of light he will deceive even the elect.

Mark 13: 22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


What's your take on "if it were possible"?
I would say this.

There are those that are truly elect, like Prophets and the more humble and faithful saints that the Lord knows will follow his will regardless of Lucifer appearing as an angel of Light. There are those that may think they are elect of God or may aspire to be the elect of God. Those can and in many cases will be deceived.

I think what the scripture means is this. That if the elect did not have faith in Father 100%, that they would be deceived because the false christs seem so good and have supernatural power. What saves the elect is their humility and desire to submit to Father’s will. If they do not have that as part of their core nature, they will be deceived.

This is happening today....

Thank you for discussing this. I have been over this with so many people in so many circumstances. They all misquote the scripture by saying that the elect will be deceived, and then they always go on and talk about how the GA Lee left the church.

Shawn

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kathyn
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Re: Could there be a purging of the Church? What do you think??

Post by kathyn »

I have a brother and sister who are part of this TLC church and follow Harmston.
ShawnC, I am so sorry to hear that! Do you know why they chose that path? That Harmston guy must have been pretty charismatic.

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