What Tribe of Israel are you? (Pt. 2 POLL)

[StriplingWarrior]

This is the second part of my original post asking you guys about what tribe you were declared in your PB. I broke the Tribe of Joseph up into Ephraim and Manasseh for specificity.

I figured this would look better in a poll so click the tribe you were declared in your PB please

Also, you only get one "vote" so click carefully ;)

Thanks guys! I'll start by "voting" myself of Ephraim

[Bananikka]

.

[Silver Pie]

88% of the people were declared Ephraim. I wonder if that's because most are, or because of tradition that says they are? (For myself, I felt the Spirit strongly during my blessing, so I would suspect that I probably do have some Ephraimite blood in there somewhere.)

[abijah]

judah. It’s curious how these things work. My mother is ephraim and my brother manasseh.

[Alaris]

judah. It’s curious how these things work. My mother is ephraim and my brother manasseh.

Ephraim here. Any Judah in your family tree that you are aware of?

[abijah]

my grandfather is the only one i know of, though I have jewish ancestry from both sides.

[Alaris]

my grandfather is the only one i know of, though I have jewish ancestry from both sides.

Super cool and rare! William Decatur Kartchner is my mom's great great grandfather. He was an early polygamist but tracing his line back further to Germany the last name changes to Kirchner, a Jewish surname. My mom has the nose to go along with it but don't tell her I said that!

[Robin Hood]

There is a woman in my ward who is from the tribe of Gad.
She's nutty as a fruit cake!

[EmmaLee]

Super cool and rare! William Decatur Kartchner is my mom's great great grandfather.
We're cousins then, as he is my great great grandfather, as well!

He was an early polygamist but tracing his line back further to Germany the last name changes to Kirchner, a Jewish surname. My mom has the nose to go along with it but don't tell her I said that!
Interesting. This may explain why, of the 8 children my parents had together, 7 of us are from Ephraim, and 1 is from Judah.

[Alaris]

Super cool and rare! William Decatur Kartchner is my mom's great great grandfather.
We're cousins then, as he is my great great grandfather, as well!

He was an early polygamist but tracing his line back further to Germany the last name changes to Kirchner, a Jewish surname. My mom has the nose to go along with it but don't tell her I said that!
Interesting. This may explain why, of the 8 children my parents had together, 7 of us are from Ephraim, and 1 is from Judah.

I got chills down my leg reading your response. Super cool! Cheers cous!

[Elizabeth]

Ephraim.

[BringerOfJoy]

Ephraim is my Patriarchal tribe, but about 4% Jew came up in my DNA test. Since we had mom tested also, and quite a few cousins on my Dad's side have taken the test; we know it came from both sides of the family. Mom's isn't too surprising since she is an interesting Eastern Euro mix--all the same nationality, but they sure came from different ethnic backgrounds. I think the muslim/Turk expansion into the Balkans probably brought a lot of that with them.

Dad's expected Scot-Irish-English DNA held some big surprises, though. I think the history of the Southern and Irish branches of the fam hold some interesting stories. Perhaps some "Cherokee." That's kind of a joke, because so much supposed Cherokee blood is turning out to be an interesting mix of African American, Jew and/or Arab, and Northern European, and little to no native. But that's what the other natives and early whites in the area always said about the Southern "Cherokee." One of my two LDS GGGrandparents came out of the south and a previous genealogist has put down a "Cherokee princess" to fill in one of the spots, and perhaps explain a tendency towards dark complexion (and very tall stature) on that line--neither of which I got. Lol. I'm guessing that might be one of our mystery ladies when it comes to DNA.

Oh, and it may not exactly be Elizabeth Warren's fault that so little native showed up on her test.

[marc]

My "patriarchal" blessing declares me to be of Ephraim. My father's "patriarchal" blessing declares him to be of Manasseh.

[Davka]

I have very strong German Jewish lines on my mother's side of the family. My second great grandmother was a Kohn. But as far as I know, everyone in my family is declared to be of Ephraim.

[Elizabeth]

DNA tests are notoriously unreliable and manipulated. Even Ancestry.com cannot be trusted.

[gkearney]

DNA tests are notoriously unreliable and manipulated. Even Ancestry.com cannot be trusted.

While I can agree that they are not reliable, that has been widely reported but to what end would they be manipulated, that would imply some nefarious reason beyond the simple motive of making money.

[kittycat51]

Ephraim here.

My father is a patriarch for a big YSA stake in the Salt Lake Valley. He finds it fascinating because has been able to declare most of the tribes. I think he even mentioned something about twins once...each were from a different tribe.

[Jesef]

Enoch. Anyone else here from tribe of Enoch? I think my patriarch was on LSD (or was it LDS).

[Alaris]

I have very strong German Jewish lines on my mother's side of the family. My second great grandmother was a Kohn. But as far as I know, everyone in my family is declared to be of Ephraim.

What a coincidence. Not the kohn but German Jewish with everyone being Ephraim.

[MMbelieve]

I have very strong German Jewish lines on my mother's side of the family. My second great grandmother was a Kohn. But as far as I know, everyone in my family is declared to be of Ephraim.

What a coincidence. Not the kohn but German Jewish with everyone being Ephraim.

Same here, my great grandfather is german and his ancestry goes back to prussia where his family refused to identify as jews because of his parents being forced to convert. He never joined the church despite marrying into it so I dont know his lineage. Another german line I have also from Prussia is jewish and the tribe of ephraim all the way up and down and declared as a literal direct line to Joseph of Egypt. This is the only line of pioneers and members that I have, all ephraim.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

DNA does not tell ethnicity but it can illustrate correlation and commonality in a population. DNA does not imprint on where it has been so it doesn't record travels. Using it to determine ethnicity is not very scientific especially since we are not good at cataloging human movement.

The Silk Road and Genghis Khan and wars and border changes and name changes etc... all combine to make that impossible.

Also if you have an indian princess back not very far it wouldn't show up anyways.

We have a few on our tree and whether or not the links are real they are so small a percentage that they wouldn't show up unless they had a persistent block that got passed on unchanged. 10 generations gets you over 1000 ancestors and back around 1750ish. Since less than 1% is iffy. Just going back 7 generations means that one of those individuals would not even show up above that level (all things being equal). So when Ancestry experts tell you that the Indian princess stories are tall tales remember the math. They may be, they may not be.

My mother always said we were related to Robert E. Lee. The "Lee DNA project" many years ago showed that was not the case and instead it was a John Lee of Nansemond, Virginia (named that because he was given a land grant).

Likewise I would think that if we are going to look at DNA for House of Israel lineage, we would look at Patriarchal (Y-DNA) and Matriarchal (MtDNA) lineages since we put so much emphasis on such in the Church.

[MMbelieve]

DNA does not tell ethnicity but it can illustrate correlation and commonality in a population. DNA does not imprint on where it has been so it doesn't record travels. Using it to determine ethnicity is not very scientific especially since we are not good at cataloging human movement.

The Silk Road and Genghis Khan and wars and border changes and name changes etc... all combine to make that impossible.

Also if you have an indian princess back not very far it wouldn't show up anyways.

We have a few on our tree and whether or not the links are real they are so small a percentage that they wouldn't show up unless they had a persistent block that got passed on unchanged. 10 generations gets you over 1000 ancestors and back around 1750ish. Since less than 1% is iffy. Just going back 7 generations means that one of those individuals would not even show up above that level (all things being equal). So when Ancestry experts tell you that the Indian princess stories are tall tales remember the math. They may be, they may not be.

My mother always said we were related to Robert E. Lee. The "Lee DNA project" many years ago showed that was not the case and instead it was a John Lee of Nansemond, Virginia (named that because he was given a land grant).

Likewise I would think that if we are going to look at DNA for House of Israel lineage, we would look at Patriarchal (Y-DNA) and Matriarchal (MtDNA) lineages since we put so much emphasis on such in the Church.

So the question is then, what ydna is the golden one?
And even that has variations over time.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

I don't know that this is the place for this but Ephraim/Manasseh/Joseph has a great heritage. It has signs and symbols and even a stone assigned to it if you can suss out which stones go with which tribes.

The Auroch bull (or rather its firstling) is a symbol of Ephraim:

Ephraim is also the lumberjack (as per Joshua 17:17-18) "But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine:"

The Ram's horn of Jericho fame is a symbol (Joshua 6:4)

Ephraim's camp is also on the West (perhaps fitting today) Numbers 2:18 "On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies..."

Gen 48-49, "

49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren."

Deut 33:13 "And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the Lord be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,"

Ephraim is rich and inventive and a multitude of nations with blessed land.

Deut 33:17 "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

[Alaris]

Ephraim is rich and inventive and a multitude of nations with blessed land.

Deut 33:17 "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

IIRC, the bullock is what is sacrificed for the high priest and his house on Yom Kippur.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

Sounds like something Judah would say...

Isaiah 11:13 "...and Judah shall not vex Ephraim." (perhaps I should include that a long and historic rivalry with Judah is also the heritage of Ephraim!)

A sacrifice does not "push people together to the ends of the earth" as Ephraim has done (also called "The White Man's Burden")