The one direct verse on the subject of plural marriage and when, and why

[kirtland r.m.]

In case you haven't seen it, or are not familiar or don't remember this, here it is. Jacob 2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

[Chip]

Horrendo Revolvo.

[nightlight]

Some bro/sis think God is saying if he wants children rasied up unto him he will command one man and one wife...otherwise peoplt will hearken unto polygamy


IMO, crazy wrong

[Chip]

Some bro/sis think God is saying if he wants children rasied up unto him he will command one man and one wife...otherwise peoplt will hearken unto polygamy


IMO, crazy wrong

In my opinion, you are brainwashed. There is no rational reason to suppose such a thing. If you hadn't been told that it means what the church says it means, I would guarantee that you would never have arrived at such a conclusion. And that's a fact.

[Chip]

It's easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he has been fooled. Works for women, too.

[Chip]

We all get brainwashed at times. The awakening comes not when you realize the truth of a certain matter, but when it dawns on you just how malleable we all are. It almost makes truth seem like a novelty. Much of our lives are spent supposing things that aren't accurate, while we act on those suppositions.

[oneClimbs]

In case you haven't seen it, or are not familiar or don't remember this, here it is. Jacob 2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

What does "raise up seed" mean?

[Chip]

And the real head spinner is when you realize that we are okay with being deceived, because it affords comfort and safety.

[Fiannan]

What does "raise up seed" mean?

Well, it tends to refer to sex and reproduction. Seed is a term used in 3:15 of Genesis:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Now that opens up a whole lot of questions as to what took place in the garden.

[Dave62]

Well, I reckon that hit the nail on the head. It seems that Jacob 2:30 is just too plain and simple for most.

[MMbelieve]

What does "raise up seed" mean?

Well, it tends to refer to sex and reproduction. Seed is a term used in 3:15 of Genesis:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Now that opens up a whole lot of questions as to what took place in the garden.

We bruise satans head but he has power to bruise our heels. Sounds like these are words to satan. Sounds like everyone got an introduction to life outside the garden.
What are you saying happened in the garden? I think its just words to symbolize what takes place in general.

[Fiannan]

We bruise satans head but he has power to bruise our heels. Sounds like these are words to satan. Sounds like everyone got an introduction to life outside the garden.
What are you saying happened in the garden? I think its just words to symbolize what takes place in general.

Some believe Cain was Eve and Lucifer's son. However, this verse indicates that he cannot reproduce with humans.

[MMbelieve]

We bruise satans head but he has power to bruise our heels. Sounds like these are words to satan. Sounds like everyone got an introduction to life outside the garden.
What are you saying happened in the garden? I think its just words to symbolize what takes place in general.

Some believe Cain was Eve and Lucifer's son. However, this verse indicates that he cannot reproduce with humans.

Some people have weird ideas. Satan had no body thus had no seed to share.
I can see how people saw cain as lucifers son and not Adams, he did the works of evil thus becoming a child of the devil.

[abijah]

We bruise satans head but he has power to bruise our heels. Sounds like these are words to satan. Sounds like everyone got an introduction to life outside the garden.
What are you saying happened in the garden? I think its just words to symbolize what takes place in general.

Some believe Cain was Eve and Lucifer's son. However, this verse indicates that he cannot reproduce with humans.

Some people have weird ideas. Satan had no body thus had no seed to share.
I can see how people saw cain as lucifers son and not Adams, he did the works of evil thus becoming a child of the devil.

I for one believe the “fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil” = sexual intimacy.

I know that there is also the “fruit of the tree of life”.

I reckon this is why men & women struggle to see eye-to-eye, as they have only half the equation. Satan holds a pattern of usurping half-truths to undermine the whole.

When the second fruit of the Garden is given to Man & Woman, I imagine their relationship will change fundamentally.

[Robin Hood]

Some bro/sis think God is saying if he wants children rasied up unto him he will command one man and one wife...otherwise peoplt will hearken unto polygamy


IMO, crazy wrong

That has always been the RLDS interpretation.
A case of wresting the scriptures if ever there was one.

[MMbelieve]

We bruise satans head but he has power to bruise our heels. Sounds like these are words to satan. Sounds like everyone got an introduction to life outside the garden.
What are you saying happened in the garden? I think its just words to symbolize what takes place in general.

Some believe Cain was Eve and Lucifer's son. However, this verse indicates that he cannot reproduce with humans.

Some people have weird ideas. Satan had no body thus had no seed to share.
I can see how people saw cain as lucifers son and not Adams, he did the works of evil thus becoming a child of the devil.

I for one believe the “fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil” = sexual intimacy.

I know that there is also the “fruit of the tree of life”.

I reckon this is why men & women struggle to see eye-to-eye, as they have only half the equation. Satan holds a pattern of usurping half-truths to undermine the whole.

When the second fruit of the Garden is given to Man & Woman, I imagine their relationship will change fundamentally.

Huh?
The second fruit of the garden?

[abijah]

Some believe Cain was Eve and Lucifer's son. However, this verse indicates that he cannot reproduce with humans.

Some people have weird ideas. Satan had no body thus had no seed to share.
I can see how people saw cain as lucifers son and not Adams, he did the works of evil thus becoming a child of the devil.

I for one believe the “fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil” = sexual intimacy.

I know that there is also the “fruit of the tree of life”.

I reckon this is why men & women struggle to see eye-to-eye, as they have only half the equation. Satan holds a pattern of usurping half-truths to undermine the whole.

When the second fruit of the Garden is given to Man & Woman, I imagine their relationship will change fundamentally.

Huh?
The second fruit of the garden?

The fruit of the Tree of Life. I think it too is but a symbol.

Genesis 3

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

[MMbelieve]

Some people have weird ideas. Satan had no body thus had no seed to share.
I can see how people saw cain as lucifers son and not Adams, he did the works of evil thus becoming a child of the devil.

I for one believe the “fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil” = sexual intimacy.

I know that there is also the “fruit of the tree of life”.

I reckon this is why men & women struggle to see eye-to-eye, as they have only half the equation. Satan holds a pattern of usurping half-truths to undermine the whole.

When the second fruit of the Garden is given to Man & Woman, I imagine their relationship will change fundamentally.

Huh?
The second fruit of the garden?

The fruit of the Tree of Life. I think it too is but a symbol.

Genesis 3

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The tree of life gives fruit which symbolize the love of god.

Never heard your idea before but I do like the idea of a missing puzzle piece revealed/given to stop the confusion between men and women and see each other for our true nature and value.

[nightlight]

Some bro/sis think God is saying if he wants children rasied up unto him he will command one man and one wife...otherwise peoplt will hearken unto polygamy


IMO, crazy wrong

In my opinion, you are brainwashed. There is no rational reason to suppose such a thing. If you hadn't been told that it means what the church says it means, I would guarantee that you would never have arrived at such a conclusion. And that's a fact.

Lol brainwashed lol I couldn't give 2 sh!*$ if I'm wrong about Jacob2.... and nobody told me anything about Jacob2....it's plain to me,yours is reaching my friend.

brainwashed....I believe you are the one who is in the process of deception... you don't even believe in the temple anymore....you don't know if your wife will be your wife in the next life....do you doubt your priesthood? Because of this issue you doubt everything about the restoration......and I'm brainwashed? ???

This is not an issue for me bro...regardless if I'm right or wrong. Even if polygamy was not true I would still believe Joseph Smith brought about the restoration of Jesus Christ's gospel.

I hold hold few absolutes....Jesus is root of them all.

[nightlight]

In case you haven't seen it, or are not familiar or don't remember this, here it is. Jacob 2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

What does "raise up seed" mean?

Raise up seed...... as in Abraham and the 12 Patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel..... its what Jacob is referring to when he speaking to his brethren. Jacob and his brethren ( having the brass plates, and direct knowledge) were well aware of the plural wives of the Patriarchs of God's people.... so in context and plain comprehension....it is what it is

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and HEARKEN to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall HEARKEN unto these things.

[oneClimbs]

In case you haven't seen it, or are not familiar or don't remember this, here it is. Jacob 2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

What does "raise up seed" mean?

Raise up seed...... as in Abraham and the 12 Patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel..... its what Jacob is referring to when he speaking to his brethren. Jacob and his brethren ( having the brass plates, and direct knowledge) were well aware of the plural wives of the Patriarchs of God's people.... so in context and plain comprehension....it is what it is

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and HEARKEN to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall HEARKEN unto these things.

So "raise up seed" means "have many wives and concubines"?

[nightlight]

In case you haven't seen it, or are not familiar or don't remember this, here it is. Jacob 2:30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

What does "raise up seed" mean?

Raise up seed...... as in Abraham and the 12 Patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel..... its what Jacob is referring to when he speaking to his brethren. Jacob and his brethren ( having the brass plates, and direct knowledge) were well aware of the plural wives of the Patriarchs of God's people.... so in context and plain comprehension....it is what it is

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and HEARKEN to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall HEARKEN unto these things.

So "raise up seed" means "have many wives and concubines"?

Are you of the 12 tribes?????

[oneClimbs]

Are you of the 12 tribes?????

If you don't want to answer my question that is fine but I don't find it respectful to simply change the subject.

[nightlight]

Are you of the 12 tribes?????

If you don't want to answer my question that is fine but I don't find it respectful to simply change the subject.

I was trying to answe your question....indulge me. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful

Do you think it possible that God command the patriarchs to take multiple wives?

[oneClimbs]

I have some questions about this verse.

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts,

Is God implying here by using the phrase "if I will" that he has not yet commanded the Nephites to "raise up seed"? If he has not yet commanded them to "raise up seed" then why did he specifically command them to "raise up seed" in 1 Nephi 7:1-2?

raise up seed unto me,

What does "raise up seed unto me" actually mean? If it means polygamy then why does the Lord command Lehi "that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise." under a specific commandment that they should be monogamous? Is it not possible that "raise up seed" simply means what the Lord says just 5 verses earlier? "raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph." That the seed he is wanting to raise up are children of his covenant versus rapid population growth by men impregnating more women? Has the Lord ever once told his men to impregnate more women to quickly increase the population? Isn't it far more likely that "raise up seed" does mean having posterity and "unto me" means that this posterity is loyal to God's covenants and commandments?

I will command my people;

Does this mean he is going to command his people because he hasn't yet? Again, he already commanded them in 1 Nephi 7:2 and in Jacob 2:25 he says "I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch."

If you look at the whole verse in the context of the sermon why can't the Lord simply be stating his authority here as the commander of his people? Jacob says in verse 10: "I must do according to the strict commands of God" so why can't God be saying in Jacob 2:30: “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph (Jacob 2:25), I will command my people;"

After all, if he cannot command his people because they hearken to the precepts of men instead of God, then he cannot raise up a righteous branch or seed "unto him." If all God cared about was population growth then that's easy, you don't need righteousness all you need is lots of sex.